Has anyone else noticed a general hostility towards men on the autism spectrum within leftist spaces?

ParanoidAgnostic · 2021-07-21T05:40:09+00:00

This is certainly something I've been noticing for a while.

I finally wrote about it a few months ago: https://np.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/l2jt90/neurodiversity_a_forgotten_intersectional_axis/

I'm conflating nerds and people with autism somewhat and many people may find that disagreeable but, even if most nerds aren't diagnosably autistic, being a nerd is defined by a number of traits associated with autism. There's also definitely a greater ratio of people on the spectrum in nerd communities than in the broader population and these communities have been a safe space for those on the spectrum.

It irks me that nerd communities have faced the brunt of progressive attacks. Yes, the people in these communities have been heavily disproportionately male but they have never been traditionally masculine. Non-nerdy men display the behaviors feminism takes issue with far more than nerdy men. However, we don't see anywhere near the same enthusiasm in attacking the traditionally masculine men, their communities or their spaces.

This has been going on since the start of whatever we're calling this wave of feminism. You can trace if back to Elevatorgate and the Atheism+ split. A socially inept guy made an awkward approach toward a woman. It made her uncomfortable and yes, it was right to point this out and help such socially inept guys do better but it blew up into this whole moral grandstanding issue. It couldn't just be a faux pas from someone who didn't understand the mistake he was making. Everyone had to act like he was deliberately victimising that poor woman.

Then there was Gamergate. Nerds became the enemy of the media and we got this absurd narrative that nerds weren't the bullied, they are the bullies. Nerds have spent most of their lives feeling powerless and othered but the stroy became that we were the ones othering and making people feel powerless.

I have a few explanations in mind for why those with autistic traits draw such hostility from progressives. None are totally satisfying and the reality is likely a combination of all of them and more.

Your idea that it's because people naturally love having an outgroup to feel superior to is certainly one of my explanations. Socially awkward people make great targets here. Its the same people they bullied and excluded in high school so is just feels natural to keep targeting them.

An alternative explanation is that the people who get invested in modern progressivism are from the same or adjacent communities as the people they are attacking. The popular kids are just enjoying being pretty and cool. They might occasionally signal their virtue by referencing progressive ideas but the people really invested are misfits just like the people who they attack. Their outgroup is made up of other misfits because those are the people they have contact with (such as in Elevatorgate). The popular kids are (socially) too far away to matter.

Another is that people who have autistic traits become targets because they don't play the game as well as others. Progressives love to plant social landmines and people who struggle with social interaction are simply less able to intuit where these are and stumble onto them.

Another is that things built and populated by those with autistic traits have become cool and/or profitable (information technology, comic books, dungeons and dragons). Normies want to colonise these and in doing so have to make them comfortable for themselves by pushing out the people not like them.

JunkyardRevenant · 2021-07-21T07:56:39+00:00

Yeah, as an autistic left dude you're pretty much right. You don't really get bullied for being 'autistic' anymore, you get bullied for being 'weird' or an 'incel'. Nothing much has changed. Although I don't claim to be an incel myself, the whole concept of an incel just seems like an autistic guy who's been wronged and just doesn't feel like he's worth anything to women.

I tend to observe behaviour I don't really get. I find that the most popular and confident men in social settings are generally the most mysoginistic and spiteful, despite getting tons of female attention. Which is absurd because the narrative of feminists dictates that it is lonely nerds and neckbeards that perpetrate this. This is even more damaging to the autistic stereotype.

From first hand experience, I used to be fairly hardcore right. When I was growing up I fell into a fairly deep far-right rabbit hole including figures like Ben Shapiro, Sargon of Akkad, PragerU, and a bunch of other right-wing individuals. It felt like feminism was such a huge threat, listening to those people talk about how men would be silenced.

As I grew up even more, observing the social scene around me, I realised that this wasn't just a crack pot idea. All female teachers would punish male students at a far higher rate than females for no real reason, and the boys that were punished were always done so with far less compassion. Girls were praised and complimented at a much higher rate than the guys I observed. Observing the mental health system, counselors were predominantly female for females. Men don't get counseling that works, because they are often needlessly treated as a perpetrator. Going into counseling I hoped to better my mental health issues like depression and PTSD from being abused as a child. Instead I was told that because I was a man I am a danger and lectured to not become an abuser, despite doing nothing to warrant it, and then was bounced onto anti-depression pills. If other men are treated like this in the system, it's no wonder we open up less to those around us.

And then I see the media. On one hand, I see people glamorizing autism. Expecting all autistic people to be socially awkward dorks with supernatural intelligence. I am jealous of the savants that can achieve this status without lifting a finger. On the other hand, you get the negative interpretations of autism. A low IQ infant who can't help themselves, so they rely on others to help them.

Being a male middle-ground autist, you get no help whilst suffering the detriments of the lower end of the spectrum and lacking the benefits of the higher end. I can recognize female autists pretty quick, and they're the ones that get special benefits or guides to hold their hand, they're the ones that can select a quiet space away from people freely without being told they're 'difficult' and having to sit in with the rest of the class. The reason female autists are invisible is because they are almost never bullied for it. Autism is a highly male problem because society's view is that a man deserves his own misfortune, so we're left in the dark when it comes to lack of social skills or the many comorbid mental illnesses that come with autism.

I could go on for hours, but this is my take.

BloomingBrains · 2021-07-21T05:56:00+00:00

Indeed, I've noticed this too. It's a really nasty form of the square/rectangle fallacy. Autistic men get the bad rep because of the gamer/neckbeard/incel/4chan stereotype. A lot of those types are autistic from what I can tell, but not all autistic people are like that. But the mainstream left doesn't understand the second half of that equation. Its no surprise really, they also extrapolate the actions a few bad men onto all men as a whole, autistic or not. This is basically what shit like the "male gaze", "rape culture", etc. is about. Which speaks everything you need to say about how tolerant and open minded they really are.

Of course as soon as some MGTOW says AWALT, they're all "That's so sexist, you can't judge all women just because you got hurt by one!" Somehow they only recognize poor logic when its their side that is the target of it.

But I wonder how bad the autism hate would really be if it wasn't for gamergate and the hypersensitivity we have around "nice guys".

Also, another thought: does this hatred not partially extend from the fact that gynocentricism expects men to automatically pick up on what women want at all times? And autistic men obviously have a harder time with that. I've been accused of being autistic myself just because I approached a girl who didn't like me. Apparently I can't read social cues and was creeping her out, and I didn't care if she was uncomfortable, from just talking. I'm not even autistic. I think its more likely that society has unreasonable expectations about men being mind readers and an entitlement complex about us "unnecessary men" shutting up and sitting in a corner.

RepressingFire · 2021-07-21T06:34:56+00:00

The chief reason for this (but not the only one) is that having autism doesn't make us not men. As such, we still must be treated according to that inexorable original sin ascribed to us. It doesn't matter if I've never lifted a finger toward a woman, it doesn't matter that conflict terrifies me to the point that I could never bring myself to even attempt socially or physically dominating a woman, and it doesn't matter how readily some socially failed men will bend to a woman's every whim (whether in fear of their intrinsic greater social value, misguided desperation to win sexual and romantic reciprocation they've been deprived of their entire life, or both). If you're a man, you are considered the oppressor, and no amount of feminist ally legwork will ever absolve you of that. Why would it? If you don't feel eternally guilty, they can't extract any more service out of you for free, without even having to give you the basic level of respect to not lump you in with the enemy. They absolutely do not want you to think autism gives you enough oppression points to be worthy of equal moral consideration to women.

Carkudo · 2021-07-21T10:58:31+00:00

Some years ago, wrongplanet.com, a huge online resource for people on the spectrum, quite literally and explicitly banned male members from discussing any topics pertaining to romantic and sexual relationships.

WinstonSmith-Corona · 2021-07-21T09:45:56+00:00

There’s a larger philosophical point that you’re missing, and it’s important.

One of the hallmarks of autism is rules-oriented thinking. Back in the before times, when the world didn’t force everyone to define ourselves in therapeutic terms, high-functioning autists in particular weren’t labeled as having a brain dysfunction. There’s a theory (which I don’t happen to subscribe to, and I am autistic, but it’s useful in this context) that says autism is just an extreme version of “thinking like a guy.” In other words, men were characterized by caring very much about rules. Not necessarily laws, although there are plenty of autistic lawyers, but definitely standards and codes, often ones that are written down.

Do you see how dangerous that way of thinking is to the woke project? They value narrative and lived experience and intangible characteristics that resist precise definition above everything, and they favor techniques like motte and bailey argumentation. They require ambiguity to win. We are uncomfortable with ambiguity, and thus we are inclined to resist it, and we can refer to the rules because we know them better than anyone else—they matter to us. In this context, we’re a social canary in a coal mine. We notice when standards slip before anyone else does.

It is absolutely necessary for the success of their project to first identify, then pathologize and then demonize autistic men, because autistic men are the specific subcategory of people who insist on explicit, unambiguous rules that are applied to everyone the same way, be those rules social or institutional or legal, and everyone being treated the same is antithetical to goal of the woke project.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-07-21T07:45:24+00:00

It's been pointed out long ago. I remember, years back, someone refering to social justice as being a concerted attack by BPD women on ASD men.

Things like having to use special pronouns and the like being a good example. The principle being to have to abide by a forever expanding and changing set of social rules that you have to grasp instinctively (so, basically impossible for someone with autism) or be considered instantly as hating them for the slightest misstep (which is pretty much a BPD way to act)

thereslcjg2000 · 2021-07-21T04:32:49+00:00

Yes, as an autistic man I've always found this to be the case. Left wing spaces are as bad as conservative ones in terms of how they treat autistic men. Both see us as threats due to our reluctance to conform to social norms. If you have any agenda (be it conservative or progressive) autistic people tend to be less prone to ignoring hypocrisy and falsehoods than many others are.

Moreover, the variety of leftist woman that expects men to cater to her every need is threatened by the idea of a man not capable of intuiting said needs. Obviously autistic people tend not to be so great in recognizing boundaries and implied thoughts.

2021-07-21T17:32:29+00:00

Yeah. I'm a mildly autistic man and I feel like whenever I complain about being single I feel like most leftists just view me as an entitled incel who's just mad I can't use my male privilege powers to force girls to sleep with me. Happens so much it's hard not to think all women feel this way about men deep down inside.

I also think that most woke liberals when they say they want diversity, they want it in the most vain, surface-level way possible. Where they only care about race and gender. Not invisible or even visible disabilities and shit like that.

YesAmAThrowaway · 2021-07-21T05:11:56+00:00

Depends. I witness more that people will talk down to you, patronise you etc.

Thanks for this insight though, I will make sure to pay attention to it from now on!

GoodApollo1994 · 2021-07-21T05:46:37+00:00

A lot of people seem to see those of us with Asperger’s as bougie white men, rather than a group who has historically faced discrimination. They love “punching up”

bigdtbone · 2021-07-21T04:21:41+00:00

Yes, I’ve often noticed that super-woke evangelical white knights are ableist as fuck. Particularly ableist against folks who are neurodivergent.

Imaginary-Sense3733 · 2021-07-21T19:31:18+00:00

Yep, I've made a few comments on menslib about this. I would be interested to find out how conscious this is on their part. Like do they hate ASD men as an identity group? Do they have a reflexive, innate hate for certain traits they perceive to be autistic that usual leftist ideology can't overcome? Even when groups are friendly to ASD people, which is not as common as it should be, from what people have told me it seems like there's a fair bit of subtle dehumanization going on, being spoken over, not being invited to the group's non political social events, generally being left out etc.

It's anecdotal but I think there's a connection here to something I've noticed in my dating life as an ASD man. When I started dating, I dated mostly like minded, self professed leftist women. But they would always leave me for, and usually cheat on me with, a man with all the physical traits and psychological deficiencies they claimed to dislike after a few months. The girl who treated me best was a former co-worker I had a fling with, she had leftist views but wasn't really politically conscious. Lots of people who knew us both said that she was too "chavvy" for me and I was too smart for her, but she was warm and caring, didn't push me into careers I wasn't interested in, wasn't a hard core careerist herself (a huge sticking point with previous relationships, a good few were ambitious to the point of ruthlessness) and in general didn't leave me feeling like I had to perform being a "perfect boyfriend" for her. The thing that was most striking to me at the time is that she would thank me a lot. If I bought her a gift, took her on a date, or we spent time together taking her daughter out for the day, she was vocally warm and appreciative about it, and often mentioned that her previous boyfriends didn't do things like that for her. That was a really nice feeling, it felt like my previous girlfriends had just considered all my efforts to be just "what a boyfriend should do" and didn't really acknowledge the time and effort I gave to them.

wombot500 · 2021-07-21T04:06:12+00:00

Thanks for the insight.

genkernels · 2021-07-21T22:08:43+00:00

I've developed a social hypothesis that most people feel a natural need to treat a particular group as an "other" to feel superior to and dehumanize.

I also believe this, and think that people tend to do this to non-normal behaviour in general. Feminism seems to like to blame opposition to the lifestyles of certain women as misogyny, but othering based on benign nonstandard behaviors is widespread. It can be seen in people's responses to childfree lifestyles, male childcaring, geekdom before that became cool, the various minimalist lifestyles, and all sorts of such things. Its as if anyone's life that deviates substantially from some sort of script gets dehumanized. And that's just crazy.

So when something like autism comes along that tends to go along with substantial deviation from normal life, and also may require extra care, well, the insane levels of intolerance society has for that isn't surprising. But feminist influence causes people not to see any of that because opposition to women's lifestyles is misogyny, and opposition to men's lifestyles is patriarchy.

Algoresball · 2021-07-21T18:11:30+00:00

I work social services in this field and deal with stuff like this a lot. People on the spectrum often have trouble with social boundaries and may do things that are generally considered inappropriate. Unfortunately they then get labeled as a “creep” or something along those lines and society is not empathetic at all to men who are viewed that way. I don’t want to give any specific examples because of privacy concerns. But I’ve seen well meaning men ostracized by their own family over stuff like this.

People should be more forgiving when someone on the spectrum struggles with social boundaries.

xarexen · 2021-07-22T00:34:54+00:00

In my opinion: it's in every space.

Edit: but yeah it's here. In feminist spaces I think it's a response to the rise of geek-chic... Ironically a feminist turned me on to this interpretation:

Liana Kerzner pointed out that this phenomenon of jealousy towards geek and nerd culture emerged as a major force soon after the normalisation of geek/nerd culture. In her opinion it's jealousy caused by the perceived injustice that they at the top of the social totem pole have lost their dominance, when they expected that they'd be there their whole lives like in High school. Now it turns out that people who spent their school time developing skills and abilities that make them interesting people that everyone is interested in, and they want to knock us down a peg.

nomorebuttsplz · 2021-07-21T04:41:49+00:00

Has anyone else noticed a general hostility ~~towards men on the autism spectrum~~ within [online] leftist spaces?

Yes

Sewblon · 2021-07-21T09:13:36+00:00

Everyday Feminism also mentioned this. https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/neckbeard-cartoon/

I think that you are right, and the explanation is actually quite simple. Just imagine that the stereotypical misogynist, was the exact opposite of those traits you mentioned being associated with autistic people: So the traits associated with misogyny were good grooming, good social skills, lack of interest in things that most people don't care about, and having an easy time empathizing with the experiences of others. Those are traits that society values, except maybe lack of interest in things that most people don't care about. Because we live in an individualist society, people are expected to have something that others do not care about, or even that others actively denigrate, that they enjoy for its own sake. But that is still only 1 trait out of 4. The other 3/4ths of the time, that would imply that the stereotypical misogynist, was someone who most people admired and wanted to be. That would defeat the purpose of the stereotype, to identify and denigrate the out group. In other words, the traits associated with autistic people are mostly negative. So feminists stereotype misogynists with those traits, because stereotyping them with the opposite traits, would be admitting the superiority of their ideological enemies, which is admitting that if you want to be in the presence of the people whom you admire, then you would be better off with the enemy. Which is admitting that you would be better off with the enemy. Look at it this way: If you were writing propaganda, then you would not be well-served by making the bad guy someone handsome, outgoing, and empathetic.

Final_Bruh · 2021-07-21T03:22:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Keown14 · 2021-07-21T10:49:34+00:00

What beliefs do you actually have when it comes to politics and society?

Greg648 · 2021-07-27T02:14:10+00:00

As a person who has been diagnosed as being on the spectrum (high functioning autism, or aspergers) since I was ~6 years old, I have been hyper aware of coming off as sexist, myogenetic or racist (the type actually hateful). With this part, I don't think of it as the collective feminists fault, but I do think that the lack of context exploration with "calling people out" and "cancelling" contribute to a massive fear of being misrepresented.

Even today, with years of "social training" from grade 2-4, I only fully understand how to be part of 1 on 1 conversations without many problems. Group conversations, awkward situations, seeking assistance and initiating conversations are situations (even walking the dog and seeing older neighbors) I try to avoid (come a long way, when I was 6 I could not infer people's emotions from faces, nor situations). I often don't display any emotion, or let it all out built up in me at once when overwhelmed, but only in private.

These traits are often synonymous with evil tendencies, as well as obsessions with how things work. Some feminists label "interactions with males that come off as creeps" as assault. It scares me to think that if I act without paranoia I could unintentionally do something/come off negatively, but if I watch everything I say and do, I could come off as a creep with potential to do something extremely negative.

Stemming to include people who aren't diagnosed, even with lesser cases, I often see awkward social cases, as well as personalities of men that tend to create awkward situations, to end with the awkward person looked down upon. For example: conventions (such as for science/knowledge, or for media like anime), where people participating in these types of communities are perceived as people to avoid due to "extreme obsession" and "lack of social training". Sure, you might encounter situations of awkwardness in many areas, but that shouldn't be used to look down upon people participating in a community, or stop you or others from joining one.

Even feminists only seem to care about the problems they want to face, as most feminist activists never seem to mention any other stereotypes that differ from race, sex, sexuality and physical disability. When a perceived but unintentionally misogynistic statement (to feminists) is made by anyone, it is met with immediate hate and backlash, without the time to look into hate and backlash. This is how autism, in supposedly accepting communities, is oppressed. You never know how something is going to be interpreted, and a less socially intelligent person has less of a chance of being able to tell. I've already had an interaction with a teacher I'm fairly sure is feminist, where a comment I made on a whim was interpreted to be misogynistic (can elaborate the story if required), although the teacher didn't know who made the comment (still scared the fuck out of me for being publicly shamed).

With feminists (and a lot of other people), the perception and stereotype of being "autistic" is a much more exaggerated version of what it is. We can often still communicate, just not in the orthodox way, which is why training to communicate effectively is great. Most autistic people don't need assistance with everything. A lot of great people (notably in the STEM field) had aspergers, with people like Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton bot potentially being on the spectrum. But just because we do not fit into the exaggerated, perceived definition of autism, feminists treat the majority of interactions they have with others with expectations that every word that comes out of people's mouths are thought out before being said. With clear, extreme autism cases, you can expect that feminists pity and overly protect, and use that as self proof they also support autism.

I don't think autism is an excuse to act deplorably towards people, with the intention to do harm, but I think social disabilities as well as the possibility of misrepresentation should be considered in full contexts of situations before assuming intention. For example, some people talk with less emotion or none at all. When words of genuine sympathy is combined with an emotionless tone, it can be interpreted as ingenuine. In these cases, people shouldn't blindly attack others. If someone is using their diagnosed autism do defend themselves making fun of others through fake sympathy, that is when they can be treated according to what they have done.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to vent, while providing some discussion points.

WeEatBabies · 2021-07-21T14:02:49+00:00

Has anyone else noticed a general hostility towards men ~~on the autism spectrum~~ within ~~leftist~~ pretend leftist spaces that are actually rightwing?

Fixed your headline for you ;)

Philip8000 · 2021-07-22T12:08:02+00:00

Hope I'm allowed to post here. I'm liberal compared to some of my family members, but conservative compared to reddit as a whole.

I'm on the autism spectrum and am fully aware of the prejudice that surrounds it. When I was in school, people thought I'd end up being a school shooter, and told me so. Those on the spectrum come across as different, which can be frightening. And since if you're white, especially if you're a white male, you have no real problems, with any mentions of them being the equivalent of white fragility.

I've got plenty of empathy, but unless you tell me you're upset, I'm not likely to pick up on it. "Fake it until you make it" is extremely difficult when 90% of communication is nonverbal. I've also known a couple genuine misogynists, who happen to be highly successful with women. Given their pastime is drugs and booze, I've never understand the appeal.

Blauwpetje · 2021-07-22T17:35:44+00:00

Yes, there's a lot of 'sanism' going on within intersectional ideology. People, especially men, are supposed to feel how they should act or not act at all, which is devastating for autists and other people already having trouble with interhuman contacts. An ironic fact that an ideology pretending to fight all oppressions leaves such an important one out.

Title	Has anyone else noticed a general hostility towards men on the autism spectrum within leftist spaces?
Author	Final_Bruh
Upvotes	197
Comments	72
Date	July 21, 2021 1:34 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/oofzfg/has_anyone_else_noticed_a_general_hostility/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/has-anyone-else-noticed-a-general-hostility.1060877 https://theredarchive.com/post/1060877

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