I have to denounce this one idea common on this sub, might get downvoted

Cool_Weather_7763 · 2021-09-07T04:17:54+00:00

We aren’t asking for choice in abortion we are asking to walk away financially if she agrees to keep it against our wishes. My money my choice her body her choice. She chose to keep a baby with her income level and her situation. It’s on her.

ThreeHourNap · 2021-09-06T22:56:07+00:00

I agree with this, in general. However, I think men should be able to opt out of parenthood within a certain period of time after being informed that they are or are going to be a parent. Some women hide a pregnancy or even the birth from a man.

skymonstef · 2021-09-06T23:44:34+00:00

So is there a prevailing narrative I've been unaware of that this sub wants to havee a say in abortion?

I know alot of us want paper abortion or some version of that

maxlvb · 2021-09-06T23:53:58+00:00

I agree with a lot of what is on this sub but one thing I strongly oppose is the idea that men should have a choice in abortion.

“Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choices.”

Karen DeCrow feminist lawyer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_DeCrow

If women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.

Elizabeth Brake, political philosopher

I don’t believe there is anything good about feminism that seeks to enslave men in name of a women’s right to choose.
It doesn’t make sense to respect women who treat men like an ATM.
Feminists feel the same way about forced parenthood responsibilities as they feel about forced genital mutilation. As long as it's not happening to women, they don't care.

Feminism: Equality, when convenient.

Heavy_Grand2526 · 2021-09-07T01:07:07+00:00

A man shouldn’t be forced to pay for child support then, especially if the pregnancy was unintentional.

Space_Exploring7_6 · 2021-09-07T02:44:18+00:00

So you are saying that I have no say in what has to do with my child just because it is not gestating in my body... "My body, my rules" ... I just can't stand such an arrogant statement... Now, if the woman having thoughts about abortion happens to by Anakin Skywalker's mother (she claimed there was no male involved), you know what, she can do as she pleases with child. Exchange it for iPhone, if she wishes for all that I care... But claim that men have no saying in our offspring because, again, it isn't growing in us is just repulsive...

But wait a minute, man have no saying, whatever the case is, whether she wants to keep it or not, but hey, we pay the bill no matter what. And of course we have to be thankful and feel blessed for the mother allowing us to be part of the child's life... What the f**k!

And to make things worst, there are men that are taking this sh*t! These are men who are happy with this role, these so called feminist men. Men that clap at the idea that since the child grows (and I underline grow as women can't give life, the child just gestates in her womb) they have no saying and women have total control and "ownership" of boths' offspring.

I have read a comment in another thread that all that is going on is men's fault for our past history. To hell with that cr*p... I am not culprit for the sins of others, only mine. Jugde me for what I have done, period... But there is one thing true to that comment, we are to blame for our silence. Our silence allows such injustice to flourish and spread like cancer. But be careful all of you, cause we are allowing our children to be brainwashed and feel like dirt just for the mere fact of being men...

Angryasfk · 2021-09-07T08:49:14+00:00

One. Laws regarding abortion are not “men having a choice”. If someone attacks a pregnant woman, and she loses the baby, feminists don’t have a problem with the attacker being charged with murder. The issue is at what point does a developing baby have full human rights, including the right to not be killed? That is pretty fundamental and isn’t just one for an individual woman.

Two, the issue on this sub, which should also be one for society, but feminists seek to such this one down too, is a woman can choose whether or not to be a mother if contraception fails, or wasn’t used. However the man has no choice at all. If the woman decides to keep the child, he’s up for 20 years of child support whatever he thinks. Abortion is promoted for women on the bases that an unplanned pregnancy can screw up her life. But it’s promoters are quite happy to have a man’s life screwed up - even if he’s a victim of statutory rape. A clear feminist double standard.

FalconGK81 · 2021-09-07T01:38:26+00:00

Through the democratic process women get a say in every fucking thing the government does that impacts my life. Why the fuck should men not get a democratic say on abortion, which is yet another public policy debate?

AxalonNemesis · 2021-09-07T06:18:02+00:00

What about in cases where a woman raped a student...or baby trapped him?

HaleBoggsfound · 2021-09-07T02:16:34+00:00

If financial abortions become a thing then I would agree with you.. until then men are paying the bill and should get a say in that. Period.

DavidByron2 · 2021-09-07T00:14:34+00:00

Any reason you oppose equal rights?

I don't know if you even noticed but you didn't give any.

_italian_dude_ · 2021-09-07T15:33:09+00:00

In less words: why men will never have the right of deciding to keep a baby because they don't have an uterus.

TheHardwayExpress · 2021-09-07T21:11:14+00:00

I'm not really ever going to condemn a topic as "off limits". Some of the things men AND women struggle with need to be discussed openly and honestly. The problem in my eyes, is the way we look at the context of the questions. Example:. This post is less about women's right as it is the right of men to decide in how they want to be involved in the process. Personally, women don't always have the right to choose to get pregnant, but they did choose to have sex. This is a similarity both men and women share. When it comes to responsibility for ones actions, we can very well argue that women and men pay the price for pregnancy differently, and eventually, so do the children. The solution isn't, IMHO, to figure out how to get out of that responsibility, but how to be responsible in our actions. Even if it was a case of inception by deception and she lied to get pregnant. We still had a choice, but the child, if born has no choice. They are what mattters now. In the case of abortion, sometimes things will never be in our cards to control, and one of those is the belief that women's bodies must be regulated just so men can feel better about not having to spend time and money on a child they didn't want. Eventually, we have to come to the conclusion that no one should have the right to control another person's body, no matter the reason(barring serious mental defects), and while it sucks that she may want an abortion but you don't and you want to keep the baby for yourself(a valid feeling, absolutely), it still is not evidence that she should be mandated to a degree of healthcare she does not want to consent to. Sorry fellas, thems just the cold hard facts.

P. S. I don't care about your religious beliefs. I really don't. Those beliefs are as subjective as what color the blue and gold dress are, and unfortunately, the truth rarely manifests itself in a black and white dichotomy, easy to understand and easy to follow. For example, I'm hard core pro-life, though I vote and promote a pro-choice position. Beat we can do is work towards a discussion of compromise and hope it's adequate.

Thanks for listening to my opinion. I'm sure it's unpopular, but I've thought it out as far as I can, but feel free to challenge me. I'm ok with that discussion. Thanks fellas!

AndyBrown65 · 2021-09-06T23:16:34+00:00

Abortion is such a divisive topic. Some women use it as birth control, which is hard on the body. But seriously, if a woman is not interested in being a mother then maybe it’s better for the kids sake

aepilus · 2021-09-07T00:57:31+00:00

What makes it obviously the mother decision? Why should the woman solely have to decide what's going to happen to a child's life? Men are 50% biologically responsible for the child birth, and the woman alone is allowed to make this decision. Do you know what it's called? Female privilege. Men have nothing to say wether the child is going to be put into foster care or not. There are several instances of women tricking their husbands to become a single mother and forcing him to pay child support.

Good_Stuff11 · 2021-09-07T00:40:32+00:00

? In what way is this a common idea in this sub?

B_Boi04 · 2021-09-07T06:56:38+00:00

Yesterday I saw a post about a man whose partner got an abortion behind his back (the child might not have been his since she was cheating at the time), I think that that should be banned. I understand that we shouldn’t force people to give birth but fathers too be deserve complete transparency about the choices of the mother too be, if they only learn of the abortion when it already happened (especially if they only learned because they asked), then the woman should be expected to compensate the man.

Note: I’m not saying you need to compensate the father if you don’t want to give birth, but that you do need to compensate when the father doesn’t even know you’re doing it.

TheJelleyMan · 2021-09-07T06:23:14+00:00

We need to not worry about abortions and focus on our own reproductive rights. Why worry about a baby in a women when you have limited access to preventing that situation. Condoms are not enough and we as men need a private and effect birth control method. She can drop off the pill and try take me for a ride, I'm still on mine.

Stop focusing on things we have no control over and focus on those that we do.

Men who think we should have a say in abortions are idiots. Women who think they have a monopoly on when a baby is produced are selfish idiots.

Focus on yourself. Work with your own sexual safety and advocate for male contraceptives. Problem solved.

adoctorswife · 2021-09-07T05:07:30+00:00

If an abortion is done out of convenience, both parents should be required to get consent for an abortion. If a woman doesn’t want to end up having an unwanted pregnancy she can just not have sex.

Wizardwheel · 2021-09-07T01:17:40+00:00

In my idea, a man can’t ever force a woman to have a baby, as far as if the man doesn’t want the baby but the woman does he should be able to opt out of the pregnancy and should not have to pay a single cent or be recorded as the biological father.

NonnyNu · 2021-09-07T07:31:09+00:00

Can you provide reasoning why? I mean beyond the “my body, my choice” bc the mother had a choice in conceiving or not (except in rape, which is the extreme minority of situations) but the baby didn’t.

Blutarg · 2021-09-07T01:14:24+00:00

When has anyone--literally anyone--on this sub advocated forcing women to have a baby?

EgalitarianFacts · 2021-09-07T05:42:40+00:00

I'd like to see some posts that give support to your first claim. I have been on this sub for over a decade and I've never seen anyone anywhere at any time suggest that men should have those powers over women.

Legal Paternal Surrender as you posit in your second idea is the default here.

Selfmade_3127 · 2021-09-07T08:24:57+00:00

we don't need having a choice in abortions ... we need an equal alternative:

US Constitution quote: "No state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the EQUAL protection of the laws"

legal option for women to "bail out of parenthood" = abortion
legal option for men to "bail out of parenthood" = ??? nothing

a mother should need written consent of a father to to create a child with his sperm ... no consent -> no child support by him

you also have to count in what she did to get pregnant:

WILLINGLY not using ANY of the MYRIAD of contraceptive methods a woman has (men have fewer)
WILLINGLY sleep with a man
WILLINGLY let him nut in her (she already knew at this point that she had no protection)

additionally to all that she want a method of killing the baby in the first few months ... how irresponsible can a person be? you f*cked raw without protection!

If you allow this ... if you allow abortions after all of THIS ... you have to give men EQUAL RIGHTS ... you have to allow "financial abortions"

Starmind0 · 2021-09-07T12:36:20+00:00

It has nothing to do with being a man, but if one believes life begins at conception or not. There are millions of women who are against abortion. And talking about how some things "give this sub a bad reputation" is nothing but utter stupidity. Feminists have proudly voiced misandry, and you're here for some reason worried that one of the very few MRM places is "shifting to a bad direction"?

DarkLordKindle · 2021-09-07T16:44:47+00:00

The abortion arguement is not about forcing women to have a baby. Its about not letting them murder with impunity.

People who are pro-life(male or female) are focused on the concept that the fetus is a human, with all the rights and privileges that comes with. They see abortion equivilent to a mother killing their 2 month old child, usually, because the child is inconvienent.

Cinnamon_Art · 2021-09-07T21:58:31+00:00

I think that abortions should just be illegal, but I guess that’s just me.

tenchineuro · 2021-09-07T00:09:45+00:00

I agree with a lot of what is on this sub but one thing I strongly oppose is the idea that men should have a choice in abortion.

Tell me what you agree with, cause I'm not sure I believe you.

I think men shouldn't be able to force women into having a baby

This is preposterous, any force applied will likely kill the baby. You can't force a woman to have a baby anymore than you can force her to breath. It's a natural process that she or you can't control.

Tell me, do you support partial birth abortions where they cut a baby just about to be born out of the woman's body? Probably you do. Do you also support infanticide where the mother kills her newborn?

I do think they should be able to opt out of the pregnancy before a certain amount of time however, so they don't have to pay child support.

Well gee, that's always what men have been asking for. It was called C4M (choice for men) in the 1990s, today it's styled as a 'paper abortion'.

Saying stuff like these is what gives the sub a bad reputation.

Who's saying stuff like this? Be specific.

Diomil · 2021-09-07T02:47:26+00:00

Being pro men's rights has nothing to do with you position on abortion. Im against abortion, I dont buy that its the woman's choice, no one should have a choice to end another human's life, not even their parents. Saying "her body, her choice" completely ignores the fact that the fetus (no matter how old) is a human life and therefore has value.

TheRealMangoJuice · 2021-09-07T09:35:46+00:00

I agree with you OP. It's unfortunate that men don't have a say in this. Maybe when we find a way to incubate the baby outside the woman's body during pregnancy then we can have bigger changes. I just don't think it's fair for a woman to carry the baby for 9 months if she doesn't want to. I don't think it's easy.

7Jamester7 · 2021-09-07T02:37:50+00:00

My father’s family offered my mother $500 to abort me. She decided not to. I’ve never met my father or his family, and this is the primary reason I would never want to be with a person who would willingly kill their child.

throwawayIDK125 · 2021-09-06T22:58:25+00:00

Here, have my upvote. I doubt it will make a difference though.

Greg_W_Allan · 2021-09-07T01:59:16+00:00

Never had a problem with first trimester abortions. However ideologues are demanding full term abortions be legalised. That is murder, pure and simple.

michaelpaoli · 2021-09-07T04:40:46+00:00

Quite agree with you on the abortion thing.

Choice belongs to the person who's host body it is.

Would you want women deciding if men would get circumcised as adults - or have surgery to have that reversed? 'Cause that ain't nothin' compared to carrying and birthing a baby.

opt out

so they don't have to pay child support

No, sorry, that option is before providing the semen. Not fair to penalize kid - not the kid's fault - kid deserves to be quite sufficiently supported, and it takes two to make that kid - so both are responsible.

International_Risk82 · 2021-09-07T14:37:14+00:00

Then I can choose to divorce her and not pay a cent for the child. If she decides to keep it or have it against my choice then she has to bear the consequences in full amount. Or at the very least, I can sue her as a case of deception and she would be off to prison the moment the child is born.

National-Cook-1980 · 2021-09-07T19:58:27+00:00

I completely disagree I believe abortion is amoral and children do better with both parents. I believe both parents should be forced to stay with joint custody. Or with the parent most capable of caring for the child until they are able to which then child support/spousal support will occur.

squincherella · 2021-09-07T02:24:49+00:00

I agree with you

shamblam117 · 2021-09-07T02:57:20+00:00

I'm pretty sure the majority here agree.

CanniBal1320 · 2021-09-07T03:06:16+00:00

Like for the actual abortion, I too think men shouldnt have a say. But paper abortion is something that we want for ourselves

ignatztempotypo · 2021-09-07T04:51:57+00:00

I agree in part, for the obvious reasons. There is a whole other argument that doesn't get made though, and it should be the main argument on the subject. A woman's body is NOT only hers. It is the gestational and birthing body of the human race. You can impregnate by test tube etc etc but you can't grow a human in one. Obviously education and birth control and responsable sexual behavior is necessary but that'll be decades to accomplish. A man and a woman decide to make a baby. 2 months in the mother changes her mind and decides to abort. Where are the the other parent's rights? I know it's a tough subject and triggers everyone but it's the truth. It will be tabled at some point and that's a good thing. Don't hold your breath though.

charcoalblueaviator · 2021-09-07T05:42:13+00:00

I don't believe the sub ever wanted that. Of course women should have a choice with their own body.

UltimaterializerX · 2021-09-07T08:38:31+00:00

It’s honestly hilarious seeing women have to deal with what child support feels like. Oh, you can’t afford being sued for 10k? Too bad.

And you still have more reproductive rights than we do. I seriously doubt any female will get thrown in jail if they can’t afford it.

VinnyBoy45 · 2021-09-07T10:16:07+00:00

Its not the first time I see this opinion you share on this server. I think it might be more common than you think.

IronJohnMRA · 2021-09-07T14:21:33+00:00

I have to denounce this one idea common on this sub

It's not a common idea.

lIlIlIlIlIlIIIIIlll · 2021-09-07T14:30:33+00:00

or well, sometimes it’s different when the man is willing to take care of the kid, and the woman wants to abort it.

YogiYeti21 · 2021-09-07T15:18:31+00:00

I don’t disagree with this.

Raven_and_The_Reaper · 2021-09-07T16:03:33+00:00

Tbh we shouldn't be allowed to decide that.We decide whether or not to put on a condom and whether or not we believe her when she says she's on the pill.If your girlfriend gets pregnant after sex with you and she wants the child when you dont want it sucks to be you mate.However I don't think the man should give money to look after the child if he didn't want the child @[email protected] the flip side it's the woman's body no matter how much you want the child if she does not want a baby don't force her to have a baby.

throwaway747292 · 2021-09-07T16:34:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Wilddog73 · 2021-09-07T17:41:05+00:00

I think it's about solidifying our role in the decision to have a child. Despite biological involvement not being the same, it is our child as well.

captain_jex · 2021-09-07T18:09:47+00:00

I think you have a point. But i don't think the affect abortion can have on the father shouldn't be important and talked about . I was 16 i got a girl pregnant we where gonna keep it then ome day without telling me she got an abortion and nade light of it . I almost took my.own life. I understand now that it was unreasonable to think we could have raised a child at 16 but damm it still hurt like hell and still dose. But yeh no i get your point

AcidKritana · 2021-09-07T19:13:13+00:00

Paper Abortion and physical abortion is what I personally mean when I talk about abortion and men choosing.

Lvyo24 · 2021-09-07T19:54:54+00:00

You would literally put all the gold diggers out of business overnight

Yakatt4ck · 2021-09-07T04:15:04+00:00

I think that women shouldn’t be able to get an abortion at all.

LancLad1987 · 2021-09-07T06:24:52+00:00

I think there's two underlying tones in this sub over the last week which are both genuinely making me want to leave it:

Hooray! Women have less rights now so that's a win for us! (Deapite this having a negative effect on mens rights too)
Women use abortion as some kind of birth control, going getting abortions with their friends every few weeks to keep pregnancy at bay.

Let me explain this second point very clearly. I worked at a GUM clinic and saw the aftermath of abortions first hand. Women walk in and hobble out. It is excruciating to some, very painful for the rest. No woman on this planet would go through something so emotionally and physically distressing instead of taking the pill or similar.

Again, less rights for women doesn't make it a win for us all the time. The slightly more toxic men in this group who think that are making the rest of us look like a sweaty 4chan group.

oafsalot · 2021-09-07T11:14:00+00:00

Men have a choice when they choose to have sex or not. Nature did make males and females equal in this matter, but to disregard that is dangerous. If you don't want a baby, don't do the one thing that makes babies.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2021-09-07T02:47:01+00:00

Where in this sub are people saying men should have a say in abortion?

DrainageSpanial · 2021-09-07T00:58:40+00:00

I figure would you have a right to remove a conjoined twin, even if he'd die as a result. It's your body.

lasciate · 2021-09-07T07:47:56+00:00

I strongly oppose is the idea that men should have a choice in abortion. I think men shouldn't be able to force women into having a baby or making her not have one, that is obviously the mother's choice.

I know you're not a concern troll and can demonstrate the "common idea on this sub" that a man should be able to force a woman to have a baby or to get an abortion, right?

SpriteBlood · 2021-09-07T17:42:54+00:00

and this...was YOUR opinion!

TFME1 · 2021-09-07T19:50:43+00:00

I disagree. If men are not considered, in the life (or death) of their children (whether considered a "blob of cells or a sentient being), then we are not "equal" in any sense of the matter. Now, I'm not saying that abortion should be completely illegal. I simply believe that the man should have some say in the matter. Men deserve to have self-representation, personal choice, and legal protections for their "Reproductory rights" just as much as women deserve their representation, personal choice, and legal protections for their "Reproductory rights". If a woman is given the right to make abortion decisions about a pregnancy, entirely absent the father's input, then I believe men should have the right to a "financial abortion" - the complete and irreversible severing of any financial obligation to the child or mother. If women want to "go it alone" (ahem...with tons of public assistance), then I say "let them"... Just without any assistance from the father (he likely already pays taxes that are used to fund all the social programs, which is essentially "double dipping". As in, "No taxation without representation". There are billions spent on social programs for illegitimate children, healthcare for single parents and dependents of single parents.

LoFiGai · 2021-09-07T21:11:33+00:00

Ive never seen anyone on here say this. Please provide sources to these comments so the rest of the community and act accordingly. No one, at least hardly any, believes men should tell women to have babies or not.

SolarEngine89 · 2021-09-08T09:56:00+00:00

So you are anti-MRA because you deny fathers parental rights before child is born.

You deny men right for procreation.

I think you should find other place on Reddit.

It takes two to make a baby. Women, unless she is Holy Mary can not convince without men sperm. People are unable to multiply in parthenogenetic way if you did not know.
Women has to gestate only around 9 month. During wich she will be normally kept safe, healthy and protected buy man. If she than chooses to be stay at home mum, 90% of financial support for family will be on man's shoulders for next 18 years.

He will be needed to support 3 people at once. Himself, his wife and his child. That is trippled (atleast) financial burden for 18 years.

She risks her health for 9 month. He - due to more money to be earned - risks his health for 18 years.

That is 216 month of father's work. Versus 9 month of mother's pregnancy.

Wich is 24 times longer than pregnancy.

24 times!

And after this math you dare say, that father has no say in abortion/baby care, because she will grow baby in her womb? Get lost, dude.

deusdeorum · 2021-09-08T18:26:38+00:00

I personally don't think either should have a choice in abortion, it's not a right of anyone to take a life, least of all against a helpless unborn baby.

Also, this fallacy that it's men "oppressing" women by being against abortion is lunacy, just as many women and in some cases more women, are against abortion than men.

It's not men "forcing" women into having a baby, it's society saying you already had a choice to have intercourse, you don't get a second choice which also takes a life in the process.

IJustWokeUpInaRiver · 2021-09-09T21:35:30+00:00

Lol im not getting away with your child support again jane. The kids are mine now, move on.

AppleWhiteJames · 2021-09-09T23:53:39+00:00

i disagree, men shouldnt have to pay child support if a woman cheats on him and keeps the baby, i think that if a woman cheats on the man, and gets pregnant, the man should have the choice to ask the woman for a abortion, and if she decides to be a life ruininer and keep the baby, the person that made her pregant, should pay for the child support

Iham1394 · 2021-09-10T21:01:34+00:00

I understand what you mean and I kinda agree, but what should we do to fix it? It can’t be completely the man or woman’s choice, any idea’s guys?

Cynotral29 · 2021-09-07T10:52:09+00:00

Agreed, if you're not the father. You should just mind your own business.

GrieferBeefer · 2021-09-07T12:34:15+00:00

I feel like a abortion should be allowed if both parents are Consenting and if either one decides to opt out they should have no meeting rights or child support etc. Both parents should have equal rights.

Xx24reminder · 2021-09-07T17:32:51+00:00

But if you agreed to have the baby before hand,you shouldn't be able to pull out of that if you're in the acceptable environment for the child

DubsPackage · 2021-09-08T01:08:43+00:00

Abortion is such a bullshit astroturf issue.

All it is is eugenics, trying to control the minority population.

All these white karens screaming about it like it personally affects them, with their boxed wine and 12 cats, pretending like they're gonna run out and get an abortion tommorrow.

If I hated women, I would tell them to make themselves available to men sexually, sleep with every tom, dick and harry and get abortions until they become sterile.

Believe it or not, I actually like women, my mother was a woman or so I'm told, I wouldn't want her to get an abortion or damage her uterus, I wouldn't want her to be used sexually by every tom, dick and harry, I would want her to marry 1 man and be treated with respect and not have to worry, and not be degraded like a cumdumpster.

But that's not the message you get from Hollyweird or the news media, they want everybody to fornicate like chimpanzees and treat women like cumdumpsters so they can get abortions and become sterile.

Especially black and brown women, they want those women sterile ASAP.

At the end of the day, as a man, giving birth is women's business, I don't get involved in women's business.

All I can do is give you my 2 cents and give you my take on the topic.

I have to denounce this one idea common on this sub, might get downvoted

Comments

Things that never happened

Title	I have to denounce this one idea common on this sub, might get downvoted
Author	WeaknessTechnical654
Upvotes	156
Comments	273
Date	September 6, 2021 10:43 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pjacwx/i_have_to_denounce_this_one_idea_common_on_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-have-to-denounce-this-one-idea-common-on-this.1067670 https://theredarchive.com/post/1067670