While I admire the hard work and effort to improve your health and well being, personally, physical characteristics I find attractive in men are usually things you're born with

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-03-26T12:42:22+00:00

Removed for low effort

Wrong_Ice_7119 · 2022-03-26T10:01:55+00:00

That's a blackpill for you purple copers

marshmallowmeringue · 2022-03-26T09:28:10+00:00

I’m definitely with you about the face being the most important thing initially, in those first moments. Height isn’t something I’m bothered about. Physique does matter to me, but I’m not personally into super muscular/buff gym types. I prefer men who are either lean like dancers, or stocky and a bit soft. Personality and demeanour (kindness, assertiveness, and a sharp sense of humour) are tied for the second most important qualities for me, which I would say are also inherent to a certain extent.

Aiasieth93 · 2022-03-26T09:38:37+00:00

You can't change your face. You can do some improvements with hair (if you have them...) or bear but that's pretty much it. You can't change your height either.

As you said, body is an additional feature which is something you can actually change. Many mens, me included, I would say work on their body first for health, second mindset and self confidence, and third because is a nice additional feature to add to increase their dating prospects.

Indeed, it is not the most important. I dated girls until my wife in the worse shape of my life, so it wasn't important at all, I agree. I had good face features (on the girly side) and came out as charming so that was enough. However, as I got older and balder while my face became more masculine I compensated with body and it is a nice feature to have. But I did it mostly for the mindset.

FoxCQC · 2022-03-26T10:55:37+00:00

Never, and I mean never get in better shape for anyone but yourself. OP isn't worth it, no one is.

H3l3l6758 · 2022-03-26T10:19:01+00:00

Remember folks, there’s no gym for your face/height/dick.

Simplysalted · 2022-03-26T11:03:01+00:00

I have never, not once, found a woman more attractive for wearing makeup. I think that's a great analog, makeup can highlight your positive features but if you're plainly unattractive and wear a face full of paint its not going to help you.

The "we improve the only thing we can control" angle has been covered sufficiently so ill drop another angle. Society and people in general have no respect for weak men. Ive been training for the past 3 years, at my height and weight I am easily one of the most athletic people I know with zero positive genetics benefitting me. The fact that I'm stronger than most men I know brings me a level of confidence that even my anxiety can't undermine. I'm less likely to be victimized by strangers, other men (especially smaller men) treat me with deferrence and respect and want ME to like THEM. Since I went from skinny bean pole to natty jacked, I've yet to have any man say anything overtly rude or off color to me. And even if they did I can satisfy myself with the thought the if i get just one hand on them i can dominate them physically. Being strong has literally not hurt me even one time, being weak made me a victim more than once.

Women love to tout "im not attracted to super buff gym guys" but you've just explained that physique barely factors into your attraction. I have yet to have a woman complain when I take my shirt off, so I think that the women that say that are usually turned off by the gym culture and frat boy personalities that can come along with bodybuilding and an inflated ego. But there are plenty of normal guys out there just trying to be strong for the sake of making their life easier. To conclude: no one looks down on women for being physically weak, but to be a weak man is to invite yourself to be a victim physically or socially.

NotAKindHuman · 2022-03-26T10:10:04+00:00

you are absolutely right.

a few years ago, I decided to dedicate myself to the gym because I wasn't getting any attraction from girls in real life or online. I got no matches on tinder which made me think I must be unattractive (which, indeed I am).

It made me feel incredibly depressed and unlovable, and I convinced myself to dedicate myself to the gym to try and make up for my bad looks by getting an aesthetic-looking body. I spent about 400 hours in the gym over the course of a year and ended up stopping due to financial reasons and depression. It was a huge waste of time, money and effort and it didn't get my anywhere. I was still just as alone as before I got the muscles.

the reason why guys emphasise this part of our lives is because we don't want to be alone. like, we really really really don't want to be alone. plain and simple. if we don't emphasise this part of our lives, what do you expect us to do? just accept our bad genetics and give up? get plastic surgery? leg lengthening surgery? a lot of guys just aren't willing to do that.

I was drawn to the idea that with enough hard work/effort, I can build a happy life for myself, despite the cards I was born with. this kind of reasoning makes sense when applied to a purely personal goal such as making money or learning a skill. the problem with this logic applied to finding a partner is that it takes 2 people to form a relationship. you can work harder than anyone, but if no one agrees to be in a relationship with you, you will still be alone.

I think guys need to learn this. ultimately, many of us will die alone because of our poor genetics. Instead of working endlessly to appeal to women who will never find us attractive, ugly guys should be taught to be happy on their own, although it is easier said than done. I am still trying to find happiness on my own after accepting I will be alone, and it is hard.

hdksndiisn · 2022-03-26T10:38:01+00:00

I got laid more when I didn’t work out. And I was also very unhappy. I mean, I’m still unhappy. But now I have a part of my day I enjoy no matter what that isn’t drinking or using drugs. For me it’s more about discipline and reflection of living a healthy lifestyle. It also does wonders for confidence and gaining respect pretty much instantly when I walk in a room simply due to my physique/noticeable presence. All that being said, working out never was about getting women, it was about health for me and the added bonus is that it gives me a tremendous amount of confidence. In my experience women couldn’t care less if I worked out and actually probably preferred me when I didn’t, and partied instead. Which is strange, but whatever, I’d rather feel good AND look good than be getting laid all the time like I used to.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-03-26T10:54:52+00:00

Guys who aren't naturally gifted, I assume, do what they can to improve their odds which is physique, wardrobe, and hopefully working on their personality.

I feel really bad for younger guys today who grew up online and on social media instead of in-person relationships. In-person relationships are what build your personality to be charming, charismatic, and social.

caption291 · 2022-03-26T09:36:14+00:00

It's because men want control so they overestimate the importance of things that they do control. This is true regardless of where you are on the spectrum of the innate qualities. If you got lucky, you do it because you want to be valued for the things that you do control and if you were unlucky you do it to give yourself hope.

The guy that got his career because of nepotism will not admit to it.

I gave an analogy instead of answering your question directly because your question is hard to answer without getting banned.

Over_North8884 · 2022-03-26T11:04:27+00:00

The reason guys emphasize physical fitness in themselves is because it's the most important characteristic they find in women. An ugly, broke, bitchy girl with a hot body can still find plenty of attention (turn the lights out). If she's fat though she's waste material on the sexual market. These men lack the sensibility to realize female sexual selection is very different. They need to work on charm (even superficial or psychopathological charm can go a long way sexually) and wealth.

Education-Financial · 2022-03-26T11:24:34+00:00

Thanks for the blackpill my depression was starting to recover jfl

TheEternalGhost · 2022-03-26T10:34:17+00:00

And I am interested to know why, besides self improvement and health (great reasons by themselves) do men seem to over emphasize this aspect of their lives in regards to attracting women?

Are you trolling? We can't change our height or our facial features. We can change our fitness/strength and our income. Isn't it obvious that men should focus on improving the things we actually can about ourselves?!

I'd go so far as to say unless you're doing it for health and for yourself, then it's almost not worth doing, especially if you expect it to lead to more opportunities with women and find yourself frustrated when it doesn't really improve things.

I'll put my personal anecdote against yours any day. I get in awesome shape a few years ago, 6 pack and muscles, douchebag shirtless photos on internet dating sites, and was inundated with interest from attractive women that wouldn't have looked twice at me before I put in the work. My height (5'11") didn't change, my facial features (very unremarkable) didn't change, all that changed was my body and my confidence.

2022-03-26T10:18:17+00:00

In other words, you admire those who can achieve the same or more with less effort.

I’m sure the mods (🤢) will come waddling to shut this one down.

Prize-Thought-4205 · 2022-03-26T10:54:46+00:00

The face is the #1 most important thing for all human beings of all genders & all sexualities.

Height is largely overblown.

Not every girl is crazy about muscles.

Not every guy is crazy about boobs.

Not every girl likes tall guys, & it has never been found to have any effect on women's attraction period in science... longer legs have though. It might be a socialization, nurture aspect of girls wanting taller guys... they DO sexually prefer men who are bigger than them though, so I guess technically height plays a factor.

In the modern age because strength & power matter so much less.

A man having resources & being intelligent is a higher predictor of attracting women, this is why as intelligence moves up the ladder the likelihood of a 30 year old man having a more beautiful wife goes up.

The more intelligent & rational a man is the more resources & status he can get in the modern world.

If a man is malnourished all his youth, all his natural traits are likely to look bad or malformed, so of course women will be less attracted to him in adulthood.

The most attractive men & women are those born into higher socio economic backgrounds, from an attractive women & a decent enough looking extremely wealthy man that can provide the highest quality of life to the ~~trust fund brat~~ kid, these men typically get women entirely effortlessly through out their lives, don't need to work on social skills or confidence because they maximize all of that pretty naturally from getting enough female attention from early on in life.

I absolutely hate any sort of black pill or defeatist rhetoric, because every human being has free will & living life as a successful accomplished man vs some degenerate loser creates a night & day difference in your interactions with women.

However, in a way a lot of things for most men is based on what family they were born to, where they were born... most people are actually are lot more attractive than they believe & have good genetics, its all about how they were nurtured & raised growing up.

Living a sedentary life, not eating healthy in teenage years & young adulthood though WILL make a guy less attractive, less fit... and if he looks average or just normal this can make a MASSIVE difference, in years of working on himself versus doing nothing but being a couch potato.

There are millions of examples of transformations from 16 - 24 when men begin taking care of themselves & grow up more.

I assume OP is a women & never went from a below average or average looking guy to above average before in their lives & seen the MASSIVE MASSIVE difference in how women treat you.

Its disingenuous for women who have no idea or don't understand what its like to not maximize your genetic potential & looks when you were near the bottom of your potential, to tell young men its pointless to want to improve yourself or work super hard, because it doesn't matter hehe ;) you see I only want natural born good looking men.

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SirTruffleberry · 2022-03-26T10:31:47+00:00

Let me play Devil's Advocate and flip the question around. Suppose you're a guy who struggles with dating due to, say, an ugly face. You probably realize that building muscle only marginally improves your dating prospects. But what is the alternative? Accept being alone forever?

Don't get me wrong, I think many men here could benefit more from changing approach methods than working out (unless they're obese). But I think the rationale for it is obvious enough. Being able to find a partner isn't optional for one's mental health, it's essential.

Pilling_it · 2022-03-26T11:01:15+00:00

Yeah, thing is, i'm not doing hard work for my "health and well being" for women? Like, if it's that where you are, get your life together.

And it's a personality case for what they can work on. It won't win many points, but sure can make lose some. As to why, you might want to wonder what's the point of talking about something you cannot improve on?

2022-03-26T11:49:48+00:00

This seems a bit obvious. There is no one quality irrespective of anything else that will attract more Women in the way that most Men want(some may be gold diggers or want try something for the night). So yes it's not just a good body but it's also not just a pretty face or not just height. It's a combination of a multiple things.

So while yes person A at their best may be better than person B at his best. That doesn't mean that person will be as attractive regardless of what he does. If he becomes obese or athletic look there will be a difference. He can develop redeemable qualities that make up for other things and gives him the best chance to attract the most Women he can. You say that you cared for their face and noticed their body later. But in reality you immediately noticed whether they weighed 400lbs or had a beer belly or was super skinny or in good shape. Plus their are a bunch of Women out there heavily influenced by a guy that looks like he works out

TheSmallerGambler · 2022-03-26T11:59:28+00:00

To answer your question ‘why’

It’s because it’s the only thing men can actually control about their physical appearance. They can’t change their height or face. But they can get really fit.

Rivennoketsui · 2022-03-26T12:15:17+00:00

Height especially. You can be shredded with a perfect face but a tall average man will be often more attractive.

wowreally73 · 2022-03-26T12:42:51+00:00

Going to the gym and getting a better physique does work to attract more women. I'm no Casanova, I'm just a 5'6 Indian guy in Melbourne. But my relative success with women did increase as I improved my physique. Hope this post doesn't put guys off from going to the gym and becoming beasts.

Jonny2266 · 2022-03-26T12:52:16+00:00

And I am interested to know why, besides self improvement and health (great reasons by themselves) do men seem to over emphasize this aspect of their lives in regards to attracting women?

Because for many men it's proven to help being attractive to the many (other) women who do value a partner being in shape and find that sexy. Should a 300 lbs single fat guy just stay at that weight when most women find that unattractive especially compared to the leaner look he can get by going to the gym? That doesn't mean a lot of men overdo it by going on steroids and such, for limited returns, if their goal is just attracting more women.

I'd go so far as to say unless you're doing it for health and for yourself, then it's almost not worth doing, especially if you expect it to lead to more opportunities with women and find yourself frustrated when it doesn't really improve things.

It's not a silver bullet, but it can definitely help if you get other stuff handled as well. If your grooming and fashion sense still sucks after you've gotten in shape, then you may not notice great change, but if you do improve all those things in tandem, you're results may be much better than if you just improved you're grooming and fashion sense alone. You'd still need good social skills and personality but at the very least, your opportunities, limited as they are in the numbers game men face, should improve.

EDIT : I will add that men should, in my opinion maximize and maybe try and foster relationships with girls who display interest in their physical type, and find your niche

So if (subjectively) hotter girls, like those into fitness, find guys that are in shape attractive, why shouldn't a guy try to get in shape to foster relationships with those girls? It's almost as if that is what these guys are trying to do, though often neglecting being sensible and balanced about it.

Ylduts · 2022-03-26T09:33:27+00:00

When I was younger I was awkward, very shy and a bean pole. I was very attractive so I never struggled with getting dates with women. I’m 41 now and my looks have faded. I’m in shape now, I’m confident, I’m financially independent, and I’m good at navigating social situations. My dating pool is as big as it’s ever been. I wouldn’t be in this position now if I didn’t put in the work to improve myself. Working out isn’t just about changing your physical appearance, it also helps out in so many other areas. Outside of looks confidence is key and working out helps facilitate that.

jasmine_tea_ · 2022-03-26T11:22:53+00:00

I've never cared about height. It's all about the face, his attitude, his voice, and sense of humor. All of these things TOGETHER are important and one trait can't be separated from the others.

The rest of his physique doesn't matter too much.

Guys should focus on their hairstyle, clothes, and charisma.

cuckedalt · 2022-03-26T09:48:31+00:00

Perhaps diminishing marginal returns but given that most people are above a healthy weight, most people have room for improvement

It was face (subjective) and height (a personal preference)

Facial Adiposity, Attractiveness, and Health: A Review

Pola_Lita · 2022-03-26T10:20:49+00:00

60% face, 40% body (includes height). In my estimation though, body is still SIGNIFICANT.

I'd guess so many men go on about it because so many men need to start paying attention to it.

ImflyingJack · 2022-03-26T11:32:01+00:00

I agree to a certain extent. Physique and height are what gets the guy into the pool of options. From there you narrow down based on face.

Unless you mean physique by muscular, abs, low BF% (Chris Hemsworth or gym buffs) I’m just talking about generally “in shape”— men who may workout few times per wk and eat healthy or be a couple lbs over/under wt or skinny fat, dad bod, etc.

Infinite_Seer · 2022-03-26T12:10:12+00:00

The whole point of improving yourself is not only to increase your own sense of confidence and health but also to put yourself in the best possible light to attract a partner.

If you're already low on the attractiveness scale objectively, there's no point doubling down on it by being ungroomed, unwashed, out of shape, and broke.

Pick a struggle.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-03-26T12:24:55+00:00

The obvious blackpill admittance: women attracted to immutable things. Being white, being tall, having a big dick.

But don't let her catch you typing about being fat or not wanting a slutty girl.

techr0nin · 2022-03-26T12:30:00+00:00

Blackpill 101.

That said gym worked for me, but because I am already 6’2 and my face looked good after I leaned out.

2022-03-26T12:38:36+00:00

ITS OVER!

Vtridolla · 2022-03-26T12:39:31+00:00

Well women get a lot of things most men don’t get to do because of your society. Contacts, makeup, surgery, nails, hair extensions, self tanner, eyelash extensions, filler, facials, etc. Guys we get like hair cuts and new shoes and tattoos and beards.

mitigated-disaster · 2022-03-26T12:26:28+00:00

I disagree.

The reason why self improvement helps with women isn't because of looks. You can't change your height or your face but you can change your mindset. And it's that that makes your more attractive.

Of course someone who has only started going to the gym for women and continues to do so is going to remain unattractive. That exactly why you have physically handsome guys who bomb and ugly motherfuckers who fuck.

Of course in the short term dating market. Ugly guys lose and will always do. That you have to accept.

But long term ugly guys who have successfully self improvement can win and be borderline worshipped in their relationships (its happened to me a few times) provided they keep the mindset they had while improving themselves. You aren't really allowed to slip.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Physically attractive people who don't self improve are those who eat for a day.

Because at the end of the day self improvement done correctly will make you like you more and women subsequently will have no reason not to like you also.

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