Is there any truth to the idea that modern society highly values fulfilling the sexual desires of men?

a-man-from-earth · 2022-07-10T23:54:29+00:00

You need to add https:// in front of your link to fix it.

dr-korbo · 2022-07-10T16:16:09+00:00

I don't think the sexual desires of men are morally valued by society. But they have a high economic value. That's why pornography, prostitution and dating apps exist.

bottleblank · 2022-07-10T15:31:10+00:00

[S]ociety values the sexual gratification of men so highly

is not a world I recognise.

There are seemingly rising numbers of incels, male sexlessness is skyrocketing, and there is no focus whatsoever on why that might be or how to do something about it. That doesn't sound like a world in which male sexual fulfilment is "valued".

I understand that nobody is "entitled" to a partner, or to sex, but it is fundamental to our being, or core, our existence as humans - ultimately animals, no matter how smart - to reproduce (or, in the modern era, at least to seek to perform the rituals and actions which satisfy the body and mind that we are succeeding in that goal).

Should we demand emotional, intimate, or sexual gratification? No. But I would hope that others would understand the pain that loneliness and lack of intimacy - never mind sex, although that's part of it too - can cause men. This isn't "women won't blow me, so I'm mad at women", this is "I'm being torn apart internally because I'm unable to find somebody who validates my existence and wants to share theirs with me".

I know I've shifted from sex to loneliness here, but that's because they're linked. All too often we hear insults and generalisations about men only being interested in one thing, or being sex-crazed maniacs, or looking at women only for their bodies. This is unfair. This is inaccurate. Yes, some will use and abuse, but it is utterly unreasonable to paint every man that way. We have physical and emotional needs the same as any woman, yet we get very little of either, to the detriment of our physical and mental health, and even our development as adults.

MelissaMiranti · 2022-07-10T16:08:11+00:00

Society exploits the need for sexual gratification in men by using it to sell things to men. Feminists misidentify this as catering to men.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-07-10T15:29:31+00:00

It does in the ''you can see but not touch'' kind of way.
It doesnt when it comes to actually fullfilling real life sex.

TheLWMA · 2022-07-10T18:31:20+00:00

AskFeminist supported a female abuser. Why would you care about their opinions of men, sex, and society?

Russelsteapot42 · 2022-07-10T19:21:11+00:00

Fulfilling? Fuck no.

Using the sexual desires of men to extract things from men? Absolutely.

Skirt_Douglas · 2022-07-10T16:56:21+00:00

I think they value the money they can make from men’s sexuality, there is no evidence that they just want to cater to men’s sexuality just for shits and giggles.

Basketballjuice · 2022-07-10T16:58:42+00:00

lmao no, if that were the case less men would be virgins.

Don't get me wrong, individual men value their own sexual gratification, and that's created a market for pornography and sex toys, the same way it has for women, who have much more access to toys and much less stigma for using them, though porn itself does favor men.

But society as a whole? nah. If that were the case, prostitution would be legal.

lorarc · 2022-07-10T20:50:41+00:00

If I go to a drugstore or a supermarket the store rack with adult products will have condoms, lube, some vibrating cock ring and a few vibrators for women. Let me repeat that, the place where I do my grocery shopping or the other one where I go to buy shampoo sells sex toys for women. Meanwhile the sex toys for men are only available in adult store where they take a fraction of space as most products they sell are aimed at women and come in every shape and size.

The public discussion about sex is mostly about how men should pleasure women and how they are bad at it while discussion how to please men is not really in mainstream (sure they are sex tips in women's magazines but it's not just the same). It's assumed that men are simple and you don't have to do anything so they would enjoy themselves. Foreplay is seen as something that men do to women (although the other way around women are sold lingerie and other sexy outfits to make them attractive). Men exploring their sexuality are seen as depraved while women liberated. If a woman isn't satisfied with her sex life then it's the man's fault but if a man is not satisfied then he is seen as perverted and demanding.

On the other hand the advertisment for any random product aimed at men feature half-naked women, I can go on a ride around town and there will be banners with half naked ladies advertising car washes and gardening tools. And of course there's also porn and strip clubs. But once again if a woman goes to a stripclub she is liberated but a man is bad.

It's not that society highly values men's desires. Sure there is commercial aspect in exploiting it but there is no value seen in it. Men's sexuality is seen as dirty and men are demonised for it, women are praised and encouraged. Basically there is noone saying that as a man you should feel sexy and desired, noone saying you should enjoy your body on your own or that it's okay to have non-traditional views on sex.

Is there some truth to the idea that society values men's sexual desires? Just some. But in general it's not really true and the topic ain't that onesided.

And finally: There is a lot of talk that men are praised for being promiscous but women are scorned. That's not really true, sure men who get around a lot get some praise but mostly because others are jealous of their success but they also get a lot of scorn (I know a guy who's not really considered attractive that is quite successful with women, he gets called slut a lot but people also wonder how the hell he manages to achieve that). Women who are promiscous aren't seen as doing any work so only get the bad comments, they are seen as only taking and they don't really have to do much if they want to sleep with any average guy (one of my friends really like to sleep around with men, and those men take her out to dates and buy her stuff and so on).

Motanul_Negru · 2022-07-10T18:41:03+00:00

Zero.

Modern society, like most human societies I've ever heard of, highly values frustrating the sexual desires of men (though also stoking them when required), to get them to work harder in their pursuit.

Now, high-status men are exempt from this, mostly. This is a big and old part of the concept of (societal) corruption. They're also some of the people concerned with ensuring that the frustration and exploitation of the general male population, and enshrining it in cultural mores, overtly or otherwise.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-07-10T18:56:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jpla86 · 2022-07-10T19:51:17+00:00

Hell no. If anything, men are considered bad people for desiring sex these days. Hell, lonely men get mocked and shitted on by society for wanting a fucking partner.

Maldevinine · 2022-07-10T21:00:01+00:00

There is at least some Apex Fallacy going on here as well.

Individual women value the sexual gratification of high status men highly, because those women are selling sex to the man in order to get something out of him. Other women see that man having his desires catered to without much care for his partners and generalise that to all men.

There's also some misunderstanding of advertising. There's a cultural narrative told to men that if only they were 'better' in some way they would get lots of sex. It's even mostly true. But this is used to sell things to men in the same way that making women insecure about their bodies is used to sell things to women. If you don't understand this advertising as an attack on men's weaknesses, it can look a lot like men's pleasure being considered more important than women's.

Edit to add: Most people have experiences with selfish lovers. A man who is a selfish lover gets on top and thrusts away till he orgasms. A woman who is a selfish lover lies back and spreads her legs. One of these looks a lot more like "only fulfilling their own desires" than the other.

anonymous_redditor91 · 2022-07-10T18:59:45+00:00

Softcore porn is everywhere in pop culture nowadays, and the amount of sexless men is increasing. Those two things coinciding is probably not a coincidence.

TisIChenoir · 2022-07-11T06:13:02+00:00

DISCLAIMER :not a native speaker, and written on a phone. I tried to correct as many typos as possible but I humbly ask for your leniency.

What a world they live in. Is there any place left on that world where men's sexual gratification is even acknowledged?

I mean, come on. Have you ever heard of any people or article discussing the male orgasm? How to achieve it, what it looks like, etc?

Me, personally, absolutely not. BUT, I've seen hundreds of thousands of articles about the female orgasm and how to achieve it (rightfully so, orgasms are great). I've also seen even more media pieces (musics, movie scenes, books, etc.) shaming men for the failure of their partners to achieve it. If tomorrow, any man you know would tell people that his wife doesn't orgasm, he'd be shamed to no end.

In fact, "I always faked it" is a common breakup insult for women toward men. It's a blow at our sexual potency. Potency aimed at pleasing women over ourselves. Even though sex is a skill, and her not getting orgasm is as much a communication failure from her part as anything else. In our society, the man is responsible for his partner's pleasure. Hyperagency is one hell of a drug.

Also, dick size. We are the only sex to be judged, and shamed, for the size of our genitals. Which is especially hypocritical given the fact that the vagina is what, 10cm long, and after that you hit the cervix? Yet shaming dick size is a staple of our culture. Because small ones are seen as less appealing to the partner than big ones (despite being functionally identical, and having the advantage of not causing pain).

So no, there is no high value on the fulfillment of men's sexuality. There is a high pressure on men to be sexual (which imho is partly responsible for the rise of incels) and failure to do so (especially if it's not a choice) is mocked. Does that sound like a "valued sexuality"?

Not to mention the fact that men's sexuality is demonized. Men are pigs, men only think of sex, men see women as slabs of meat. When a woman has sex with a man, she is rendered "impure" by that act, thus being soiled by the man. It is, in fact source of quite a lot of sexual psychological blocks in women. Does that sound like a "valued sexuality"?

I'll leave you with a last point. What is the ONE thing men are told to be if they wish to seduce women and have sex? They are told to be self-confident. Because it is sexy. Self-confidence is the drive to do something. In that case, the drive to approach a woman, despite the odds to be rejected and suffer from it. So, men have to be pro-active and take risks if they even want a chance to be "rewarded with sex". Even if they go to see a prostitute, they have to give something in order to receive. Now, I don't know about you, but if I lived in a society where male's sexual fulfillment was so prevalent a notion, where it was a cornerstone of society, I'd kinda expect to have it delivered on a platter and not have to do much work for it. Am I wrong?

helloiseeyou2020 · 2022-07-10T18:15:21+00:00

Nope. Walk into an Adult Toy store, 80% of the inventory is aimed at female pleasure.

For the last 50 years, women have had electric dildos at the same time if a man can find, has one , or ask for a "pocket pussy" he is seen as a degenerate. Yet women have had dildos since the time of Pompeii.

1st world nations cater to female sex/pleasure and completely ignore the male pleasure. Women are so privileged around sex that any equal treatment is seen as men taking something away from women.

r2o_abile · 2022-07-11T12:42:00+00:00

Most men under 30 have not had sex within the last year. How does that marry with this assertion?

I could see the argument that society values the sexual fulfillment of DESIRABLE men.

There is also the argument that most ladies only see desirable men.

Putting both arguments together, you could see how one could genuinely believe the assertion in the OP.

Since the women ONLY see desirable men, and they see society (women) trying to fulfill the desires of these men, ergo, society caters to the sexual fulfillment of men (THAT THEY SEE).

griii2 · 2022-07-11T09:56:53+00:00

What evidence was provided to support the claim that modern society highly values fulfilling the sexual desires of men?

To quote Hitchens: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

frackingfaxer · 2022-07-10T21:57:06+00:00

I'm familiar with the post being referenced. It's this: https://np.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/vpwtss/why_is_the_sexual_gratification_of_men_seen_as_so/. I'm also very familiar with the person that the post quotes at length, her breakout article on this topic, and I've read her book, an essay collection released to piggyback off the success of her article. I'd really like to make an essay-length post on her problematic views on sexuality sometime, but for now I'll just say this:

Consider the so-called Nordic model approach to prostitution/full-service sex work. For those of you who don't know, it's this radical feminist initiative to criminalize the purchasers of sexual services (overwhelmingly men), but not the sellers of sexual services (predominantly women). It's framed by its supporters as a means of reining in patriarchal male sexuality, combatting male "violence" against women, and reducing the demand for sex (as if male sexuality were a social construct that can be legislated out of existence). The misandric attitudes towards male sexuality on display is pretty overt with these types.

If society actually valued male sexual gratification, then this would be an incredibly fringe idea, promoted by bigoted radfems on obscure subreddits, and dismissed as lunacy by everybody else. Instead, these sorts of laws have spread like a plague. There's been appreciable progress for this in the U.S. as well, with Manhattan becoming a de facto Nordic-model jurisdiction last year. What kind of society that was concerned that men were having less sex would throw men in jail for having sex with a consenting adult? If we lived in the world that these feminists were imagining, you'd think countries would be promoting the expansion of the sex trade, not entertaining this radfem idea of abolishing it.

Cunari · 2022-07-10T19:37:24+00:00

No. Society wants men to be working not having sex. Women enforce this too.

Jonathanese · 2022-07-11T01:04:43+00:00

I mean if they were talking about things like the "male gaze", I think they're hearing the wrong thing from it. (Side note, when I hear "Male Gaze" I like to say "Male Gays? Where? Are they cute?")

The goal is to make men thirsty and frustrated, and women insecure or confused. And then to address neither of these but instead offer their products.

It's why you'll almost always see women modeling for products aimed at both men and women. 2 birds with 1 stone.

Happy people don't need to buy much. If you instead keep them insecure and frustrated, they'll keep spending money on your products without you having to pay them more.

So it's another case where I think feminists would be on the right track if they sat back and looked at the whole picture before drawing conclusions. Like, a lot of the social critique habits I got came from feminism, and all I did was apply it to men as well.

But yeah I would like to see examples they're referring to as well.

Codoro · 2022-07-11T11:35:30+00:00

If this was the case, incels wouldn't be a thing.

TheSnesLord · 2022-07-12T00:08:34+00:00

Is there any truth to the idea that modern society highly values fulfilling the sexual desires of men?

No, it is a myth. Entertainment media which features sexy/hot women to fulfil the sexual desires of men have been criticized, bashed and stigmatized for decades. And it's getting worse as:

There are no longer attractive female characters in Western video games (but male characters are still handsome, shirtless and showing the six packs all over the place)
Japanese/Korean video games which do have attractive female characters are hated on by mainstream Western games journalists (but the handsome male characters get a pass from them)
Western movies, films and TV shows no longer have proper sexy women/actresses in proper "sexy" roles. Instead, this is now reversed to male actors for retribution, "reverse sexism" and so-called "equality"
Other forms of entertainment medium, such as comic books, card games (Magic The Gathering, etc.), cartoons, etc. are removing/censoring attractive women/sexy female characters from them (but male characters are allowed to be handsome, topless and showing off the six packs, massive arms, pectorals in these mediums etc.)
Pr0n has always been stigmatized and given a negative reputation for decades because it's major target audience is straight men. If pr0n's target audience was straight women and male actors took the roles of the female actresses in pr0n (in the sense of quantity), then pr0n would be praised and glorified instead
Anime and Manga, which generally features loads of attractive female characters in the medium, are constantly viciously attacked by politicians, government, feminists, organizations and United Nations types. The reason? It appeals to straight men of course. (they are okay with all the handsome Bishounen male characters and Yaoi/BL thogh)
In the vast majority of professional events, female models such as Booth Babes, Car Babes, Grid Girls, Boxing Ring Girls, etc. have been banned
In a lot of countries in the West, TV adverts and commercials are no longer allowed to have sexy/attractive women or use sexy/attractive women to sell products. In some cities, they are not even allowed to have scantily-clad (non-nude) attractive women on billboards, posters, kiosks, etc. (but attractive men are still allowed to be objectified in these mediums, for example the Diet Coke adverts)
In some countries, men looking at women is against the law (but women are allowed to stare at men)
In Japan, sectors/areas which appeal to men, such as Hostess Bars, Geisha tea houses, Maid Cafes, etc. are routinely hated on and stigmatised by foreign media cretins (but they love Male Host Bars and Yaoi/BL cafes and hotels though)
In Korea, K-Pop female bands are constantly criticised for "objectifying women" to the point where the female costumes had to be covered up (but the same people hating on the females love the K-Pop male boy bands dancing around with their shirts open)
Female strip clubs are have been criticised, bashed and stigmatized for decades. (male strip clubs are not though and is even praised)
In female strip clubs, the male audience are strictly told to "look but don't touch or you're out". In male strip clubs, the female audience are allowed to touch, molest and suck off the male strippers at will
Pr0n magazines which feature sexy women for male audience have been criticized, bashed and stigmatized for decades. (when they tried to make an equivalent magazine for women, called PlayGirl, it was praised and celebrated by the same people who hate on pron magazines for men)
In public, if a man who is of a significant importance, comments about women's looks or attire then he is immediately lynch-mobbed and cancelled by SJWs/Feminists
In Dating, men are not allowed to have standards when looking for women. (women however can demand handsomeness, six packs, over six foot talls, six figure salaries, you-know-whats over six inches, etc. and get praised for it)
Regarding fan artists, male artists who draw art of sexy female characters are routinely attacked ("where are her organs", "have you see what a real woman looks like", etc.); however female artists who art of hot male characters are praised and celebrated
Regarding figurines and statues, Amazon tried to ban hot scantily-clad female Anime type figurines/statues (but they had no problems with hot scantily-clad male Anime figures/statures)
Anime merchandise such as figures/statures, body pillows, etc. of hot female characters are routinely mocked and stigmatized (the male character equivalents of these are never attacked at all)

So no, modern society does not value fulfilling the sexual desires of men. Instead, it wants to take away material and deny men any form of sexual fulfilment.

The truth is actually that modern society highly values fulfilling the sexual desires of WOMEN.

Zazadoozie · 2022-07-10T19:15:17+00:00

Not one fucking bit.

excess_inquisitivity · 2022-07-11T00:48:06+00:00

It values the sexual drive of men, which can be directed and manipulated.

marchingrunjump · 2022-07-11T22:15:00+00:00

The sexual participation and attention of women, is valued higher than man.

So whatever man is getting this participation and attention is of course looked upon with respect.

BloomingBrains · 2022-07-11T09:31:24+00:00

I guess it must seem like it does to a feminist. But they are the ones that call it sexist whenever men talk about wanting women to have orgasms, so let’s remember this isn’t a bastion of rationality we’re dealing with here.

FailAggravating6834 · 2022-07-12T22:30:12+00:00

hmmm I think men's sexuality is vilified! But it is true that sex is sort of everywhere and geared towards men. Kind of contrary to each other but there is no way you're going to tell either of them isn't true.

adam-l · 2022-07-10T21:54:35+00:00

Lmao no

jojoblogs · 2022-07-10T21:18:28+00:00

Like with many things there’s a disconnect between the rhetoric and reality. The rhetoric is all about promoting female pleasure (and belittling men in general for being bad at achieving it) while the reality is still very likely skewed towards sex being structured around male enjoyment. It’s hard to measure though.

To use an unfortunate analogy for cultural change; if you imagine trench warfare, one side has been dominating for ages and has a lot of territory, but recently they’ve been getting pushed back by the underdog side. The underdog always feels like they’re losing based on territory held, but in recent memory all the dominating force has done is cede territory, so they feel like they’re losing too. So no one is happy.

Fast-Mongoose-4989 · 2022-07-10T17:38:35+00:00

Strange-Procedure- · 2022-07-11T02:18:34+00:00

It doesn’t. The evolution of human brain function does. Socio-sexual gratification is a blessing and any political ideology hampers that evolution.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2022-07-21T21:26:27+00:00

I think it's the opposite. Society (and women especially) highly value the loneliness of men, which makes it easy to sell them extremely shallow forms of sexual gratification, among other forms of vulnerability that benefit various interests.

Title	Is there any truth to the idea that modern society highly values fulfilling the sexual desires of men?
Author	HD800S
Upvotes	102
Comments	95
Date	July 10, 2022 3:18 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/vvto3l/is_there_any_truth_to_the_idea_that_modern/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-that-modern-society.1123251 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123251

Comments