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denverkris
[–]lisanolisaFDS Newbie 125 points126 points127 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I don’t know how to explain my view on this. I like to pay for people and treat them... but I would not want to pay for a man that thinks women should pay? Is that dramatic?
Men who demand women should pay usually do the wallet test and the whole ‘men and women are equal now’ spiel so it really turns me off and I just hate men like that.
I’ve gone Dutch on dates before because it made me feel uncomfortable to let a man pay for me and tbh all it did was set the precedent for them being stingy.
[–]fdsonlynoscrubsFDS Newbie 70 points71 points72 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know what you mean, but what I’ve found is that in the relationships I’ve had where men pay the bill 100% of the time without question, I feel like totally liberated to treat him in other ways. Cooking dinner on nights we stay in, buying him little gifts, etc. When I have split the bill or done the thing where he pays one meal I pay the next, I feel like I’m always keeping track of who has paid what and it’s just a buzzkill.
[–]Rowbloks 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Nope. It just means that you like to treat people when you know that they truly appreciate your gesture. None likes to give a gift to someone who feels entitled to receive it.
Just imagine buying someone a car or anything expensive and instead of saying thanks and showing you love that person just says "wow this is great!" then they hop into the car and ride off. That feeling you would feel is the same feeling you feel when buying dinner for a guy who feels like you have to do it. Everyone's money is worth a lot but your money as a woman is worth more than his, it's harder for you to make it, so he's not entitled to your treats, period.
[–]SayNadFDS STRATEGY COACH 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't pay for men in any circumstances, even friends or coworkers. Either we go dutch or they are the generous kind and they pay. Maybe because growing up, my father strongly teach me that "it is the men's job to pay and provide, women paying is the insult to their masculinity" and I just go with that. Some men tried to make me pay for them "jokingly", they end up getting stares. Also I am poor so why would I fork up my valuable money for some scrotes? Doesn't make any sense.
It is different with my girls because they take care off me a lot of times, so when I can, I pay for them.
[–]Emergency-Feed8216FDS Apprentice 47 points48 points49 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Years ago, some wealthy ad producer decided my feminism meant I should take him to dinner. He called me to tell me this. I told him I'd take him to Coney Island for a Nedick's hotdog. He was flustered but actually sounded game.
There hasn't been a Nedick's in Coney Island for decades.
[–]CandidKick 37 points38 points39 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A friend of mine would split the bill with her partner. She also always cooked when they got together. She asked him to cook for her one time and he agreed.
When she came over, he was so frustrated with how long everything took to make. The food was nasty and undercooked but she ate it to be polite. Afterword, he asked if she would pay for the ingredients because he had to buy extra groceries (as opposed to his man meals). She said no because it costs money when she cooks for him. He disagreed saying that she would have had those ingredients, anyway. Her response was that she buys extra ingredients to cook for him but even if she doesn’t, that was food she could’ve ate and he basically ate her money.
He grudgingly decided to let it go about the cost of groceries. When she got home, however, he called her to let her know he was mad at her because she didn’t even offer to clean the dishes. Mind you, she cooked EVERY time he came over, bought her own groceries, took the time to make a DELICIOUS meal and cleaned up on her own. At that point, what I said to her about man children finally clicked. She laughed at him mid-narcissistic rant, said it was over and hung up on him, never talked to him again.
She still does offer to split the bill, but only if the guy agrees to split the cooking. Her now HVM refused to split the bill even when she offered. He pays when they go out about once a week and she makes something for them at her place about once a week. Helping women get away from LVM is a big part of why I stay on this sub. I never want to get sucked back in to the propaganda.
[–]denverkrisFDS Newbie[S] 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Helping women get away from LVM is a big part of why I stay on this sub.
Right here with you.
[–]barbedwiredaisycrownFDS Newbie 154 points155 points156 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fool had to try it 🤷♀️
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]nyclaurcoFDS Newbie 106 points107 points108 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
guys think that they’ve lucked out when the woman wants to split the bill, but really, for so many of us it just means that we don’t plan on seeing them again lol
[–]fdsonlynoscrubsFDS Newbie 22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely. And when it’s really bad, and by that I mean so bad I don’t even want the stench of his energy on me, I will pay 100% of it just to get out the door ASAP.
[–]donttextme_kFDS Newbie 118 points119 points120 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I had someone asked if I always expected man to pay. I was stupid to say no. He end up paying for the dates we went on but not sure what he was trying to go with that question
[–][deleted] 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]2340000FDS Apprentice 81 points82 points83 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The lot of them are abusers. Not once have I desired to "test" anyone. You just observe them.
I'm not scheming all the time. I bet all that paranoia gets exhausting. It would explain why they project so much.
[–]donttextme_kFDS Newbie 40 points41 points42 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That was a few years ago, thinking it was “HVM” of them to test if I was using them for free meals 🤡. I’m embarrassed 🤦♀️
[–]Rowbloks 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I bet that when you said no he made up his mind that "Okay I'm going to pay for the few first dates but later on, when I'm sure that she won't leave I'll be free to come at her with 50/50 bs".
[–]Rowbloks 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Proof that when men ask you uncomfortable questions and justify that because "cOmMUniCAtion is important", they're just playing dumb and testing you to see how much they can get away with by putting you on the spot.
That's why it's fundamental to learn to be unwavering, unafraid to be straightforward and honest when it benefits you.
HVM know that women are caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to honesty. Because dishonesty gets them called dishonest and honesty often gets them unfairly called the b-word. These men know that if they ask very confrontational questions that don't allow for any plausible deniability or any sort of gracious escape, they are using a communication style that is infinitely more advantageous for men than for women. It is NOT an even playing field.
Because of this, HVM avoid asking delicate questions in such a confrontational manner like that guy did. Lower value men ask but then they immediately suck it up and move on when you give them a straightforward answer, like this girl so admirably did. And NVM will ask and even go so far as to ask even more after that. They'll ask stuff like: "why don't you want to split the bill? Isn't that anti-feminist? I'm not judging I'm JUst cUriOUS, I just want to gEt tO KnoW You".
I used to be really tempted to take the bait and to start explaining myself, but now I know that if he even had the audicity to ask that question, he's already made up his mind that you're the type of chick that he's not very afraid to lose so he's going to bother you and test you and use you as a way to gain experience for the chick he really wants. At this point, if they bother me with confrontational questions about my boundaries, I just change the subject or I double down very hard in a way that shows that my opinion is not going to change so you better drop it. There are too many fun and non-controversial ways to be cUriOUs and gEt TO KnoW me for you to be asking me this.
Not being okay with being put on the spot as a woman doesn't mean that you're "against cOmmunICatioN", it means that you're a non-naive self-respecting person who understands the rules of the game.
This girl is a hero.
[–]Summerisle7FDS Disciple 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This comment is amazing, this should be a whole post.
[–]Warm_Ad6994FDS Newbie 161 points162 points163 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I started getting brainwashed by the libfem “going dutch” bs too and then I had an epiphany... if I’m expected to doll myself up and be well manicured which all takes quite a bit of time, money, and effort... because men are “ViSuaL CreAturEs” then I most certainly expect a man to play a gentleman role and pay for the date HE asks ME out on. Sorry not sorry.
[–]NurseBubbleGumFDS Apprentice 82 points83 points84 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I feel that it is common courtesy if you invite someone on a date, you pay. I even pay for girlfriends if I ask them to come with me and take time from their day. LVM are just here to push "equality" while still using and abusing women.
[–]eaucitronFDS Newbie 81 points82 points83 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
I was on a blind double date with a friend years ago and she pulled me to the washroom and was like “they want us to split the bill, let’s bail”. So we did lol 😂
Edit: lmao scrotes be mad at this
[–]sugarplumcutieFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Omg I love this😭😭
[–]PeengwinFDS Newbie 46 points47 points48 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Real question: what should a woman say when a guy asks this, other than just "no"? In the past, if a dude asked this, I'd pay my half and never see them again. The price of knowing he's pathetic
[–]Amy3e13FDS Newbie 84 points85 points86 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Just say you'll pay next time. There won't be a next time of course.
[–]GiraffeLibrarianFDS Newbie 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Flair says newbie, comment proves expert
[–]PeengwinFDS Newbie 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Perfect! 😄
[–]surviveIIthriveFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I’m with ya! Pay your half cheerfully and don’t continue the date. Handshake good bye and block/delete his number on your way home! There is absofuckinglutely no reason to argue with them or come up with a bs excuse. It’s either a hostile move in their part a la PUA tactic or they’re broke/infantile personality type.
If a date makes you feel awkward like that about anything, it’s a wrap! As soon as the bill comes, he should grab it, put his card in the fold and give it to the server. While continuing the conversation. He shouldn’t even acknowledge the bill had arrived - he should just act on it. It should be smooth! Real man shit! That’s sexy as hell to me. Any fumbling, mumbling, looking at me expectantly or asking how we should handle the bill etc is so gross! There are high school/college kids who don’t do that. So a grown man with a job/career who does this after HE asked me out is a complete turn off! It absolutely communicates that he’s not that interested in me or he’s in an infantile emotional stage where he’s defensive towards women.
[–]Summerisle7FDS Disciple 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As soon as the bill comes, he should grab it, put his card in the fold and give it to the server. While continuing the conversation. He shouldn’t even acknowledge the bill had arrived - he should just act on it. It should be smooth! Real man shit! That’s sexy as hell to me. Any fumbling, mumbling, looking at me expectantly or asking how we should handle the bill etc is so gross!
You know there is SO much advice on this sub that could change a lot of MEN's lives, not just women's. Men who can't find a girlfriend are always whining and begging, - how do I get a girl? Whyyyy don't feeeemales want to sleep with me? I need tips, I need strategies, I need game. The above quoted advice IS THE STRATEGY but how many of them are man enough to take it.
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"not really, thanks"
[–]RabidWenchFDS Disciple 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What is wrong with just 'no'? It is a full response and doesn't require any elaboration.
[–]nyclaurcoFDS Newbie 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this has never happened to me before, but i would quickly grab the tab and pay for the whole thing when the server came back. i would also not see them again or allow them to have access to me online, of course. this is definitely not taught in this sub, but i couldn’t resist that opportunity.
[–]tortllaa8 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"oh sorry, i forgot my wallet at home" lol
[–]7CuervosFDS Newbie 26 points27 points28 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In my country it is well known that whoever asks you on a date (the man duh) has to pay for both.
That sadly doesnt stop scrotes from making women pay 50/50. I stay away from it.
[–]fdsonlynoscrubsFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I have absolutely no issue splitting the bill.... with a man that I will never date again. I’d rather spend $50 for a quick lesson about how cheap and / or thoughtless he is than months or even years figuring it out the hard way.
[–]veniphylFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, because no.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]CatSweetsFDS Newbie 28 points29 points30 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I used to insist on paying for myself because I was afraid of them getting violent because of the entitlement - "I paid for you, now you have to pay me back". My behavior changed with time, and I still offered to split but accpeded if they said they wanted to pay. Then I found FDS last year, at the beginning I didn't agree with not paying for myself, but then I realized that: 1. Most men will feel entitled to sex, whether they pay for your meal or not, and 2. Women, as a class, are generally in financial disadvantage comparing to man, because of the patriarchy. Yes I work and I support myself, but if a man wants to spend money with me I'm not stopping him - in the end I have more money to spend on myself.
I just didn't have the chance to practice this mindset because I'm not dating (covid and whatnot), but I plan to do it.
[–]Rowbloks 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Am i the only FDS user that doesn't like when they pay for both? It always makes me very uncomfortable. I see it as a power play where they assert their dominance by being the one paying and i hate that. Also i don't want to feel like i owe them anything.
In my opinion, the moment that FDS has truly sunk in into your mind is the moment when you realize that, even if a date pays for you as a woman, you still owe him nothing other than respect and basic decency.
You're a woman and, as a class, you do labor that men don't. All the emotional labor that goes into not losing your mind in a world that constantly tries to diminish you and objectify you from the second that you're born, who pays you for that? A world where misogynistic slurs are used on the daily with total societal approval, who pays you for that? When you deal with people discriminating you because they view your biology as a liability in the workforce (but they're also very glad to profit off of your biology when it's time to have their own kids or make demeaning jokes), who pays you for that emotional work? The stress of putting your safety at risk by spending so much time with someone (a man) way stronger than you who could use sexual violence against you, who pays you for that? You pay all of this out of pocket your whole life, and despite all of that, you're still getting out of bed every day and doing what you can to be a pleasant person to be around. You do all this work yet the people who don't have to deal with all that discrimination (men) demand access to the result of your very hard emotional labor, you, for free, and they say that it's "fair and equal".
What is fair and equal about that, exactly? When you think it through, you notice that the only reason why you think that's "equal" is because you've been told that it is over and over again. That's it. It's classic brainwashing.
It's not a power play because paying for the date means paying for your company, not for sex. He's paying for the time and energy you've given him despite the fact that your energy and time is also taken by all the obstacles that only you have to face as a woman.
Think of it like buying bread at the baker's. Buying that bread is not a power play because it's a fair exchange. Your bread that he buys is your company, so as long as you don't do weird things like encouraging him to buy a vacation for the both of you and then standing him up at the airport when he can't get his money back anymore, you're good sis, for real.
[–]immortallogicFDS Apprentice 24 points25 points26 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the thing I struggle with a ton as well. I also have seen it as a power play thing and when I've paid in the past (I used to be adamant about paying on first dates, but I should clarify if pay for them too... It was usually dessert or some shit), I would see it as flexing my dominance. Some guys def were surprised and i think also felt that haha, but for others it wasn't a big deal.
HOWEVER - what I have learned from this sub is that, yes, for us it's a power play thing etc, but also, if you pay for them, they'll just take advantage of you. I know you were not real talking about paying for them, just yourself, but also in their eyes if you don't let them pay, they may see it as "oh guess I can take her time, etc and not even have to pay".
My compromise now is that I always let them pay on the first date, don't even offer, they should be paying, and then afterwards pay sometimes and let them pay sometimes.
[–]gingerwabisabiFDS Apprentice 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If it's a power play, you will feel it and still be able to block and delete them. It sets the tone, though, if he's someone you DO want to keep seeing - men value things and women more if they have to work for them. They LIKE things they pay money for, more. It's hard to get used to being "spoiled," but life is SO much better when you make that mindset change.
[–]tortllaa28 points 5 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I know what you mean! Think of it this way: they are paying for the opportunity to meet you, as a thank you for taking the time from your day to sit down with them and potentially risking your safety in meeting with a stranger. You wouldn't go to work for free, would you? Your time is valuable and you do not need to spend it with them, so they are (literally) repaying you.
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i have no qualms about letting men pay for me. they make more money. i feel no obligation to give them anything in return. why would i let them save their money to take someone else out after me?
[–]penelopekittyFDS STRATEGY COACH 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please read the handbook. FDS is not about 50/50 for very good reasons which are elaborated on in the handbook.
[–]StrainingMyNeurons 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It looks like you haven’t read the handbook, as you’re rehashing an old issue. I recommend you read it first.
[–]digmeunderFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel the same way re grown woman with a job who pays her own bills/ doesn't want to "owe" anyone anything.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]happyduck1828 points 5 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
You absolutely need to read the handbook.
But to answer your question, it shows he values you & is invested in you and the relationship. As women, we do this but dressing up, doing our hair & makeup, and going on a date with a man which has an inherent risk for us.
Wether or not he pays also says a lot about him & your relationship. For example, a LVM ex didn’t respect me, treated me poorly, manipulated me, was a liar, didn’t respect my boundaries, didn’t support me, etc. He also usually didn’t pay during the first half of our relationship, would often “forget” his wallet, and in the second half of the relationship was obsessed with how much he spent on me & keeping things 50/50. As we were getting close to breaking up he threw in my face how much he spent on me, and told me he wasn’t sure if I was worth it. All of this (should have) shown me he didn’t value me & wasn’t worth it.
In comparison, a HVM ex always payed for our dates. As we started becoming more serious I would occasionally pay for things, but if he was taking me out on a date he’d pay. Every time. One time he even turned the car around because he forgot his wallet, even though I offered to pay. He also absolutely respected me, supported me in my life goals, was always honest, etc. He added value into my life, just as I added value into his, and him paying for our dates was a way of showing he valued me & was invested in the relationship.
[–]eatchickpeasFDS Newbie 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
thanks for the reply, i definitely need to read the handbook
[–]happyduck1811 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Definitely! Lots of great info in there. Level up girl 👑
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 25 points26 points27 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
paying for a date is quite literally the least men can do. if someone asks you out on a date, they should pay. men who don't pay are cheap and are saving their money to take out someone else after you. if you pay for yourself you're only hurting your own pockets while wasting your time with someone cheap.
[–]loftycriesFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please read the handbook sis
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[–]lisanolisaFDS Newbie 125 points126 points127 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Emergency-Feed8216FDS Apprentice 47 points48 points49 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CandidKick 37 points38 points39 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]denverkrisFDS Newbie[S] 13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]barbedwiredaisycrownFDS Newbie 154 points155 points156 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]donttextme_kFDS Newbie 118 points119 points120 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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[–]2340000FDS Apprentice 81 points82 points83 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]donttextme_kFDS Newbie 40 points41 points42 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Rowbloks 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rowbloks 20 points21 points22 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Summerisle7FDS Disciple 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Warm_Ad6994FDS Newbie 161 points162 points163 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]NurseBubbleGumFDS Apprentice 82 points83 points84 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]eaucitronFDS Newbie 81 points82 points83 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]sugarplumcutieFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PeengwinFDS Newbie 46 points47 points48 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Amy3e13FDS Newbie 84 points85 points86 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]GiraffeLibrarianFDS Newbie 54 points55 points56 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PeengwinFDS Newbie 14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]surviveIIthriveFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Summerisle7FDS Disciple 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RabidWenchFDS Disciple 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]nyclaurcoFDS Newbie 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]tortllaa8 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]7CuervosFDS Newbie 26 points27 points28 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fdsonlynoscrubsFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]veniphylFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]CatSweetsFDS Newbie 28 points29 points30 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rowbloks 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]immortallogicFDS Apprentice 24 points25 points26 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gingerwabisabiFDS Apprentice 21 points22 points23 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]tortllaa28 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]penelopekittyFDS STRATEGY COACH 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]StrainingMyNeurons 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]digmeunderFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]happyduck1828 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]eatchickpeasFDS Newbie 15 points16 points17 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]happyduck1811 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]atreegrowsinbrixtonFDS Newbie 25 points26 points27 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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