"mra's should work with feminism"

63daddy · 2023-06-09T14:32:32+00:00

MRAs working with feminism would be like Black Lives Matter working with the KKK.

As you said, many of the inequalities men face are a direct result of feminism. Why would MRAs work with and help an anti-male movement? That makes no sense to me.

Professional-You2968 · 2023-06-09T14:17:49+00:00

The only path to equality is removing feminists from position of power and mainstream media, there is no working with them.

AvailableCandidate89 · 2023-06-09T14:23:45+00:00

You’re misunderstanding them.

What they’re trying to get across is “mras should not legally be allowed to act or speak in a manner that in any way challenges feminism or it’s goals”

Which is a bit awkward when one of feminisms goals is the elimination of men in power and the general genocide of men to ~10% of the population

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-06-09T14:26:37+00:00

People making such suggestions are feminists who want to derail the men's movement or do not know how feminism operates and fail to understand that feminism and men's rights are completely incompatible. A movement that brands masculinity as toxic and patriarchy as the root of all evil obviously is not capable of seeking true equality.

EricAllonde · 2023-06-09T14:44:26+00:00

Feminism is the organized effort to grant women ever-more special privileges, benefits & advantages over men, all the time, in all circumstances, and without limitation while exempting women from more & more of the responsibilities men face.

Feminism is now the biggest obstacle to achieving true gender equality.

HomeIsButADream · 2023-06-09T14:35:23+00:00

Working with them is working with the enemy

stefan_reevezsky · 2023-06-09T14:47:21+00:00

This argument is made by either those who still somehow sees feminism trough blurry glasses or those who are afraid to sound too radical.

No, MRA should not work with feminism - at least, not while feminists (and, well, lots of other folks) consider Men's rights activists bigots.

Angryasfk · 2023-06-09T15:15:48+00:00

Totally agree. Feminists actively try to shutdown discussions of men’s rights too. And I’ve not seen any “liberal feminists” or any of these other “real feminists” condemning these “feminazis” either.

I didn’t see ONE feminist condemn the threats made to venues to try and pull screenings of The Red Pill much less the protests trying to intimidate anyone who went to see it. Rather they were queuing up to condemn the film as being “threatening to women”. As were “male feminists” (and DV aggressors) like Andrew O’Keefe, and the brain dead “progressives” on The Project!

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2023-06-09T17:27:13+00:00

but to act like feminism hasn't hindered progress for men's rights is asinine.

Feminists say they are for equality. Then when it comes to men's rights they say "then go do your own movement then" and then when you join a movement it's "LUL You're just an MRA!@M$#" - I mean.. at no point, ever in my life, has any feminist cared about men's rights. In fact the only people who have cared about men's rights are people who said they aren't a feminist.

Even on Reddit the conversation gets shut down or mocked on any feminist subreddit. Even posting here can earn you a ban from those subreddits. Why would any sane person want to cooperate with that when simply existing or asking questions earns you a ban?

feminists mock and trivialise men's issues

Look at how they treated Johnny Depp. Look at what it took to get people to realize Amber Herd was batshit crazy. AND EVEN THEN PLENTY OF THEM SAY HE MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING TO MAKE HER CRAZY. These people use the exact same reasoning that racist people used in the 1940's.

My wife used to work in family law and had to leave it. Women didn't care if their ex-husband was left with nothing or couldn't see the kids. They cared about money and power/control. Anytime someone would point out how we need equality in family law feminists overwhelmingly shit on them.

why the hell should the mrm work together with feminists when they do everything in their power to prevent progress for men's rights?

The people who tend to say "cooperate and you'll both benefit" are people who honestly believe feminism is for equality and haven't been met with reality.

When you get "feminists" (the kind who want actual equality) to nail down who, specifically, they feel is an authority on feminism for their personal beliefs... it gets real quiet. For them feminism is an idea for equality. But when the rubber meets the road - there is no named person they agree with. It's like when a person says they're not religious but they are spiritual. They aren't really ready to make the leap to reality but they know the truth but the leap is still too scary for them. The feminists who actually follow the hate-speech that is named people and their nonsense are usually people who are traumatized and in denial of reality. They feel their experiences are representative of all (or most) women.

People, like my sister, who work in a bar and think the men who go there are representative of all (or most) men. The people she works with are representative of women.

It's similar to how cops view society. They only see the bad sides and have no clue as to the reality of anything else beyond the calls they get. The funny thing is she justifies her shitty behavior which creates the environment to continue people not trusting her and the stereotype she perfectly fits in.

She's beginning to see the truth but is not comfortable with admitting the fact that the last 20 years of her nonsense is just that. Because the next step is changing herself and she's not ready for that just yet. She's comfortable in her anger towards the world and men and if she can't blame the world or men for her problems then that leaves herself - and no one want to realize that they are their own problems. But she's getting there. Slowly.

My kid is not a feminist but her girlfriend is. Her girlfriend doesn't get why she's not a feminist. In the end my kid is just tired of the animosity of politics and her girlfriend views all men as a threat to her existence. You know it's bad when my sister (from above) even says "yeah... you're just a man hater for the sake of it, you're a villain in the making"

BCRE8TVE · 2023-06-09T20:15:43+00:00

Fun fact, in Canada it's actually closer to 60% of domestic abuse victims being men, and men facing harsher domestic abuse than women.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332917590_Prevalence_and_Consequences_of_Intimate_Partner_Violence_in_Canada_as_Measured_by_the_National_Victimization_Survey

"Results showed that 2.9% of men and 1.7% of women reported experiencing physical and/or sexual IPV in their current relationships in the last 5 years. In addition, 35% of male and 34% of female victims of IPV experienced high controlling behaviors—the most severe type of abuse known as intimate terrorism. Moreover, 22% of male victims and 19% of female victims of IPV were found to have experienced severe physical violence along with high controlling behaviors."

When you ask men directly what they experienced and specifically state the behaviours, you get a much higher rate of domestic abuse for men, because men don't know that they can be or are being abused.

If you asked me if I was being abused, while I was in an abusive relationship, I would have told you no, because I was raised my entire life to believe abuse was a thing men did to women, so it couldn't happen to me.

But remember, sexism against men doesn't real.

Miserable_Ad5227 · 2023-06-09T14:14:36+00:00

There is such a huge disconnect what "reasonable feminists" think the movement is vs what it is actually doing. It's ridiculous.

It is so "righteous" to be a feminist and defend the oppressed that most don't even look any further. Suddenly everyone is a feminist, even though they never took 5 minutes to look up what it even means.

With popularity comes money, and with money comes influence and with influence comes corruption etc. Not to talk about the initial goals of feminism.

Then you get the revisionist history of feminism being pushed everywhere. You literally have paid editors for feminist Wikipedia entries.

I truly believe a huge part of the "arm chair" feminists actually believe in equality. But they are basically getting duped by their own movement.

Now introduce "gender studies" an entire arm of well respected universities that just keeps faking and or abusing any kind of data to make ridiculous claims. It doesn't matter when it's shown to be untrue a few days after publication, whatever "point" they wanted to make went through the news cycle already. And you can't fire a gender studies professor without a huge backlash so they can just keep doing it. Thank you for eroding any kind of trust in scientific publications of any kind btw...

The worst part is that the more you talk about it the more you sound like some crazy conspiracy theorist.

They just want equality after all and you are raving at them like a lunatic about the "true" goals of feminism. It's like real life satire.

Foxsayy · 2023-06-09T18:30:53+00:00

It would be great if we could, but feminism currently shows very little interest in many of the issues that matter to us or simply opposes them. Even things they should be on board with - like choice of legal parenthood for men as well as women, pushing for the very viable male birth controls being studied to actually allow men to "share the birth control burden," like feminists say they want, and bringing boys back up to speed with girls in early education and beyond.

A lot of people who call themselves feminists see this as a zero-sum game where one of us has to win, unfortunately, or retribution that little Timmy in 3rd grade deserves because 2-3 generations ago, women struggled to go to school and participate in the workforce.

Jostrapenko · 2023-06-09T17:34:38+00:00

Very thoughtful and well written. Feminism has nothing to do with equality of sexes and they've proved it time and again by their Misandrist behaviours. It's high time for Egalitarianism to find it's way in the society and that's only possible when like-minded men and women who are seeking for true equality and justice join forces.

General-Teacher5865 · 2023-06-09T19:00:46+00:00

The whole reason this movement even exists is because feminists suck at the one job they have. So working with them will never work until they either take accountability or maybe just forget their entire movement. Feminism doesn't have the monopoly on what Equality is.

I_SHIT_ON_DOGS · 2023-06-10T01:51:27+00:00

Want to see men working with feminists?

Go to MensLib. Just read for a while. See the self-loathing, see the fear in them as they desperately make excuse after excuse for the things that feminists say.

If you go back far enough, you'll even see an AMA from a guy who said that domestic violence against men doesn't exist. They fawned over him for hours as he repeated his message: all claims of domestic violence by men are those men just lying to cover up their own abuse.

So thank you very much, but I'll pass. The last thing that the MRM needs is feminist overseers telling us what we can/can't talk about.

Antarkian · 2023-06-09T16:30:23+00:00

We would work with them. They won't work with us. Working together, implies some give and take. They only want to take, and not give. And that alone says ALOT about feminism.

EvenApplication5739 · 2023-06-09T16:54:00+00:00

Feminism is corporate and a power play at this point. When multibillion dollar companies support your movement, it's been hijacked to virtue signal and exploit women (and men).

When MRA goes corporate, that's when you know it will be corrupted. Keep it at the grassroots level and it will succeed.

Don't let corporate entity hijack the movement. That's a surefire sign it will fail (see BLM, pride month, etc).

ashterberry · 2023-06-09T14:56:29+00:00

If feminists actually supported equality, sure.

Dramatic-Essay-7872 · 2023-06-10T08:25:36+00:00

why is there a need for a mens rights movement?

(Statistics cited) Women are more likely to commit crime than people think. The reason most prisoners are men isn't simply because they commit crime more. Men get caught more.

historical oppression of women by men "myth"

VS

feminist agency

sexist feminist quotes

why homeless shelters for males get protested against?

McFeely_Smackup · 2023-06-09T15:55:15+00:00

MRA and Feminism SHOULD work together towards egalitarianism.

The problem is that's not what Feminism stands for, and not what it works towards. You can't work "with" a group that is literally spending every effort to suppress and subjugate you, you can only work "for" them.

MathematicianKey9311 · 2023-06-09T21:38:03+00:00

The only male issues feminists are willing to acknowledge is petty crap like "men are too ashamed to paint their fingernails and wear dresses ". And their solution is that men should just start doing it

DoctorStorm · 2023-06-09T16:50:27+00:00

I refuse to work in a hostile work environment where I pay to work, I am hated for a plethora of reasons that I have no control over, am not responsible or accountable, and I did not contribute to whatsoever, and the truth is irrelevant because someone's vengeful heart and a half-baked fantasy can directly ruin the entirety of my actual life.

tl;dr: no.

Dapper_Platform_1222 · 2023-06-09T20:35:25+00:00

If you were to take some of the normal things you hear on the feminist board and switch out the word "men" with "Jews" you'd be in violation of almost terms of service for the website. So why is it ok for them to say those things and it somehow is not bigoted?

TracyMorganFreeman · 2023-06-09T17:27:07+00:00

Working with feminism is letting feminists define what Men's rights are.

This is already what is happening, which would make MRAs working with them giving them plausible deniability.

Feminism as an institution is about power, not equality.

Aimless-Nomad · 2023-06-09T17:10:37+00:00

Ya and the jews should work for the nazis.

omegaphallic · 2023-06-09T18:51:22+00:00

Very true. I've tried such an alliance, and the only factions of feminism it works with are the Libertarian feminists who are hated by the feminist mainstream even more then MRAs are because they call their fellow feminists on their bullshit.

ZekalMacabre · 2023-06-09T23:10:02+00:00

Nah. Feminism is why we exist. Asking us to work with feminists is like asking Ukraine to work with Russia despite Russia trying to destroy Ukraine. Same idea. Feminism is trying to destroy all men. Fuck that.

ABlindCookie · 2023-06-09T23:55:05+00:00

Men should work wirh feminism, who protested the idea that men can get raped, charged more for the same crimes, not have reproduction rights or even dating preferences. It's in men's best interests. /s

CrowMagpie · 2023-06-09T21:01:11+00:00

Just for a bit of nuance: I wouldn't say feminism caused most of men's issues. Some of them, sure, but not most of them.

However, it does perpetuate ALL of them.

Neither_Still8887 · 2023-06-09T14:36:33+00:00

I made this point earlier today.

But I didn't say mra should join with feminism. But mra should join with women and female activist.

Not all women and equally, not all people who fight for women's rights are feminists

I feel building on existing momentum parts of women's movements have can only be a positive thing. E.g, "end women's homelessness" just becomes "end homelessness"

There are groups out there that aren't full of feminists, and would be sympathic to mens issues.

There's an awful lot of cross over between you and I. We both suffer SA, suicide, homelessness, DV. The more men that get involved with these existing & established movements, the more you'll be heard

PabloNovelGuy · 2023-06-09T22:27:51+00:00

Should not, I'm not a Christian I don't believe in forgiveness as a virtue, only truth. Even if I did one needs to be dumb to not see who is attacking who.

AllGearedUp · 2023-06-09T17:23:56+00:00

Feminism is a broad term though. There are definitely "feminists" that support men's rights. I do not want to just have more identity politics around these issues. The only reason to even call something out as a men's issue or a woman's issue is when the general population ignores it because of bigotry, and it's the bigotry we should all be against.

Yeah feminism has some stupid history behind that name, but I am not going to draw more lines because of that. I would much rather work with people in hopes that they understand it's bigotry (sexism in this case) that we're really all fighting against.

I do think that feminism has, in general, gotten crazier over time. It seems like every political movement with any visibility has tried to become more accusative, provocative and identitarian than ever. Most "social justice" now of any kind doesn't care about statistics and evidence and seems to just want to yell in the internet. I don't want more of that. I can disregard feminism that screeches over an impossible to define patriarchy and still care as much about women being abused in say, the middle east, as I do about men's problems.

LordOafsAlot · 2023-06-09T17:16:37+00:00

I've come to believe that the reason men and women don't join forces is because we're so different and we have little naturally in common. Women can't conceive that men would think, feel and act like men and men can't understand women.

That said, without common ground and common purpose no one is going to improve the outcome for anyone. So in saying that I do think we aught to find ways to work together.

That said, it's awfully imbalanced right now and I see problems with feminism giving up its advantage to allow men to have a semblance of say in the outcome.

Donut_of_Patriotism · 2023-06-10T05:54:29+00:00

MRAs and feminists are the same coin but different faces. Most from both groups want the same thing, but the extremists from each side make us fight each other rather than the the power structures actual responsible for our hard ship

WhyNotARobot · 2023-06-09T23:56:14+00:00

I agree that there’s a lot of overlap, and that we would be better working together. But it’s always on their terms, and they just want to point fingers.

coffeeinvenice · 2023-06-09T17:24:46+00:00

one argument that i have seen a lot of in posts and comments on this subreddit is the notion that the mrm should join forces with feminism, instead of being against it, and frankly, it's an argument i'm tired of hearing.

I have been on this subreddit for over 8 years, and I have never seen anyone here make that argument.

Can you cite some specific examples?

dibberdott · 2023-06-09T19:51:26+00:00

MRA should try to list there main adversaries. Feminist groups are not the most fierce or influential.

Joemac_ · 2023-06-09T19:58:33+00:00

real feminism doesn't hurt men just like a real MRA movement isnt hurting women.

DemonKai7 · 2023-06-09T20:50:16+00:00

It's like working with darkseid to save humanity.

amey_wemy · 2023-06-10T08:06:03+00:00

The thing with feminism is that many identifies with it but dont actually understand the implications. I believe there's some overlap in areas like going against single sex conscription.

Ultimately I find my annoyances more towards conservatives than feminists. Especially when a large majority of "feminists" I see are actually more egalitarian, they just dont know the difference.

Bear792 · 2023-06-10T09:35:53+00:00

This is why you ask them, do they support women’s rights, or everyone’s rights? If they support women’s, you can’t work with them as a mra as they’ll likely put men down. If they support everyone’s weights, then you can try to work with them.

antifeminist3 · 2023-06-10T23:19:28+00:00

The double standards in the legal system were created by feminists; they are the problem. Especially in divorce court. Rape trials have legislation governing evidence that are specific to rape trials in Canada and allow the accuser to review the accused's evidence with the possibility to have it excluded unless it is 'approved'. This does not happen in other criminal cases.

BigDaddyDeliciousD · 2023-06-11T02:04:09+00:00

Yes and fire should join up with ice. Everything will be just fine😅

Anih1list · 2023-06-12T04:55:38+00:00

MRAs can’t work with feminists. It’s not possible. We hate each other too much. I’ve always proposed that we use cultural issues popular among feminists to hook people into Men’s Rights. My Body My Choice aligns well with circumcision. Rape Culture aligns well with disbelieved male rape victims. Trans Rights aligns with stereotypes of men as naturally predatory, etc.

Title	"mra's should work with feminism"
Author	mrauser347
Upvotes	395
Comments	136
Date	June 9, 2023 1:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1455xdn/mras_should_work_with_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mras-should-work-with-feminism.1221727 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221727

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