Let’s talk about incels

aryaman16 · 2024-02-23T07:13:16+00:00

People wouldn't turn into in*els if they show some empathy towards them when they were in their "I got rejected for my height" phase.

Friendly behaviour would encourage positivity and them lowering their anxiety.

I saw a comment from a redditor "these in*els shit their pants while talking to a real person and want a gf", I was like bruh, people like you are the reason they are like that.

AskingToFeminists · 2024-02-23T07:10:09+00:00

Are you familiar with the prim reaper : incels, why empathy works better than derision.

Compassion for incels is something you will find in any mrm oriented space worth its salt.

sanitaryinspector · 2024-02-23T08:30:08+00:00

In the grand scheme of things, incels are antagonized because they say what most feminist complain about and in the same derogatory manner, but as boys aren't entitled to be empathized with and they're bullied into alienation.

That's how you make war not love literally, cast somebody out of society and make they hate themselves for being rejected.

mrBored0m · 2024-02-23T06:46:48+00:00

Lol, I was active on this sub in the past. Ahahah.

I can say there (on Reddit) are enough people who like to harass insecure men. Not all of them (insecure guys) even were incels.

I can't write something useful because I'm not an English and I wanna go to sleep etc etc but I want to say that IncelTears is a hate-sub. And FDS and TwoX are no better then TrueVirgin.

EDIT: I browsed TrueVirgin in the past only because r/virgin turned into shit. Personally, I'm not into black pill and I'm not a trad. But I have pretty severe anxiety (I don't go outside at all) and a lot of other tough stuff. And (I think it obvious) I'm fixated on sex (is related to my fixation on my looks which is related to constant harassing and humiliating in the past and so on), have no self-esteem and other expected things.

I don't plan to kill and/or rape women, btw.

Fallen-Shadow-1214 · 2024-02-23T12:44:09+00:00

All you have to do is flip the gender script. If a women believed she was so ugly and worthless that she will be alone forever and she has depression and anxiety, would society say “Get over it, you entitled freak! Try harder. Stop pitying yourself. You aren’t entitled to sex, you sexist pig”?

Of course not. They would be like “I’m so sorry. That must hurt so much to feel like that. You probably have depression and anxiety. It’s not your fault. I’m here to talk. Maybe therapy could help.”

friendlysouptrainer · 2024-02-23T07:56:04+00:00

As always when this topic comes up, I will link to this excellent article from 2014 that eloquently explains the problem:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

I cannot recommend this article enough.

Garfish16 · 2024-02-23T12:50:24+00:00

Being involuntarily celibate is a social condition not a self-identity. It is not something anyone chooses. It is something society has done to you.

Langland88 · 2024-02-23T14:10:38+00:00

Honestly, at this point the term is used as an ad hominem attack at any guy who even says anything in criticism of feminism or even anything about women. It's very annoying because sometimes there are things about Feminist movement or even things about women that are worth criticizing constructively. Like right now for example, the Madame Web movie is bombing at the box office and getting fairly criticized and yet people are defending the movie and dismissing the people as incels for criticizing the movie.

country2poplarbeef · 2024-02-23T15:08:48+00:00

That top comment is a perfect example of how close-minded and ignorant redditors can be. "I've found one single flaw in your discussion, so that gives me an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater every single issue you've brought up." 🙄 Never had a chance with that person.

YetAgain67 · 2024-02-23T16:13:23+00:00

Even sidestepping the misandry and dismissal incels get from everyone - the big takeaway is that all of the people who seem to preach the loudest about mental health and taking it seriously only seem to extend their empathy and sympathy so far. If they can make a tidy tiktok about it, they're the worlds best advocate. But when it gets intense? Nary a peep.

I.E. when the mental health crisis is troublesome, uncomfortable, and yes at times hostile or even potentially dangerous - suddenly these people are nowhere to be found preaching understanding and the need for resources. Why? Because when mental health gets SCARY these people lock up and turn just as judgmental and dismissive as everyone else.

Mental health issues aren't just feeling anxiety....isn't just having depression. Mental health crisis' are often, as I said, uncomfortable and harrowing to deal with and confront for all parties affected.

Add the general misandry of society to this and yeah, no wonder men are in a bad, bad way.

Alone_Concentrate654 · 2024-02-23T09:26:34+00:00

I hate that we are treating incels as criminals who hate women and do terrible stuff. You couldn't do it with other groups without being called racist or equivalent. But it's fine to do it to incels. If you are called bad person so many times and you haven't done anything wrong you are probably going to say fuck you to the people that are calling you that and might as well do some bad things.

Look how the author of that post- incel himself- talks about incels as idiots, disgusting people who commit atrocities. And he acts as if he's not an incel, after saying he's a kissless virgin.

Johntoreno · 2024-02-23T12:28:14+00:00

Society has zero empathy for Men. These men stew in their misery and project their frustrations at the world in an unhinged manner. MRAs have been accused of being misogynistic even though we try our best to be polite to the most bad faith feminists out there. Incels have figured that if Society is going to treat low status single Men like trash no matter what, then they may as well embrace evil. Its a self-fullfilling prophecy, if you abuse anyone long enough they'll end up becoming violent&anti-social.

This lack of empathy extends far beyond just Incels. Antipathy towards Men is normalized. No one would be cool with calling any woman a "loser" and no one will tell women that they "deserve" their fate for not rising up to the challenges in their lives but its considered "normal" to treat men with coldness when they're suffering, the social rot is deep and there's no prayer for angry incels if we can't even get Society to feel sorry for men who are innocent victims like homeless men.

throwburneraway2 · 2024-02-23T07:29:47+00:00

Oh my God as soon as i saw the comments I lost hope. Literally every reply is just like npc dialogue that normoids use when dismissing incels

Illustrious_Bus9486 · 2024-02-23T16:27:24+00:00

That post read like a woman pretending to be an incel wrote it.

Fallen-Shadow-1214 · 2024-02-23T12:24:08+00:00

Have you ever watched the incel documentary from about 9 years ago? It's called Shy Boys, and is only about 30 minutes. Highly recommend if you haven't yet.

You can watch on YouTube or vimeo, pretty sure it's free.

DrewYetti · 2024-02-24T14:03:13+00:00

It also reveals the cognitive bias towards men as whenever they have struggles and difficulties in life, it’s their fault, no one owes them anything and they should take responsibility and do better. Not to mention how hypocritical people, specifically feminists are whenever they claim to want to humanise men by encouraging them to be more open with their issues and then dehumanise men when they do just to silence them.

Karmaze · 2024-02-23T21:21:46+00:00

So, to give my 4/5 cents about this.

Just to give a bit of personal background, I view myself as haven gotten VERY lucky, or I'd be in that camp. Happily married, long distance relationship, basically she took all the first steps needed.

But I've never really been on a date. Never asked a woman out. Never really had any of those experiences. And I feel like I completely lack the ability to do so. And I do think it largely has to do with actualizing harmful ideas about masculinity, more than anything, and how it affects one's self-confidence and self-esteem. But it's something that's only really going to hit those that are more vulnerable, have less to actually lose.

But what about when it turns ugly? When it becomes what I call a "Dark Progressivism"?

I'm going to give an analogy. When you're a kid, you're given a vial of poison. You're asked to drink the vial of poison, but they tell you that if you do, it's actually going to be a benefit in the future world because things are going to be radically different, and your sickness is actually going to be seen as a positive, it's actually going to be a superpower.

What happened, is that the world didn't really change in this regard. Sure, it doesn't affect everybody, right? Ever notice that the people who advocate for this sort of neomasculinity are usually smug and cocky as all hell? They're immune to the poison (frankly, with the Cluster-B traits and all). But there's other people, yes, largely the neurodivergent, who are actually very weak to the poison. It affected them a great deal.

And then the football got pulled out from them, Charlie Brown style. Thus, you get the anger.

And I'm not defending the anger, I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying we can or should create the world that was promised. But I am saying that it's understandable. And you can't shame them into stopping.

The fix, is to acknowledge the problems with efforts to reform masculinity, acknowledge that change is not coming, and being open to all sorts of self-help...ACTUAL self-help, for the benefit of these people first and foremost, not for the benefit of others. And it's probably going to involve things people don't like, I.E. teaching men who don't have enough of this stuff to be more self-confident and assertive/aggressive.

TL;DR:The whole issue is that efforts to reform masculinity lowered the confidence/self-esteem below critical levels, and the victims of those efforts want the world to reward their sacrifice. This isn't healthy for anybody.

TacticusThrowaway · 2024-02-24T11:22:30+00:00

I've seen people get mad at Jordan Peterson because he 'appeals to incels'.

Yes, he does. Along with other alienated young men. Because he tries to help them get their lives together and do less of the stuff that people have the issue with.

StarZax · 2024-02-24T19:13:04+00:00

2nd comment I see is immediately « hurts women equally »

Not really surprised, but I'm still disappointed each fucking time

aupri · 2024-02-23T10:26:18+00:00

I've been reading/commenting in the manosphere for the last 20 years. After talking to so many incels (along with all the other types of men), I've concluded there's 3 tiers under this label.

The first are average looking men who have trouble dating due to being awkward and are very likely on the autism spectrum, who never learned how to "mask" like most of us eventually do. They are often overly chivalrous too, which is off-putting to most women. I went on dates with 2 of these types irl, and while they were physically attractive their personalities were extremely bland. It was like talking to the color grey, if that makes sense. Neither had any hobbies, they had less than 3 friends, they had zero interest in joining any clubs or meetup groups to further socialize. Their lives consisted of graduating high school, getting an entry level job, taking purely online college courses, and staying at home. For one guy, we were both 22 and he said that other than going to work and the grocery store, I was the first human he spoke to irl in 3 months. These kinds of incels can definitely be helped if you can convince them to get out of their house.

The second tier are men with one or more significant issues. The issues vary greatly, so more individualized assistance would be needed to help them. Even with help, some may never find a longterm romantic partner but at least they would have a stronger social circle and support. These men are some combination of the following: lower than average physical unattractiveness or mild disfigurement, come from poverty-stricken or lower class families, are definitely on the autism spectrum, have crippling social anxiety, are noticeably low IQ, have very little motivation to better themselves, seem to have narcissistic tendencies. Note that when I say a combination of the above traits, I don't mean every 2nd tier incel has all of them...it's more like a menu where you must pick 2-3.

The final tier are what I believe many people think of when slinging the term around as an insult. These are men who are socially inept, lack any empathy for others, are highly misogynistic towards all women/girls, misandric towards men they perceive as superior, and crave dystopian societies where they would be given a woman (either temporarily aka prostitutes or permanently aka slaves) upon hitting puberty/reaching legal adulthood. I've only been in 3 private forums/locked blogs where this kinds of incels felt comfortable speaking freely and it is a truly chilling and disgusting mindset. They hold loudly applauded ideas such as fantasizing about killing off significant percentages of atrractive men to enhance their own chances, thinking that education over grade 4 is utterly wasted on girls, want to create "woman farms", and post stories about taking "revenge" on random people for daring to be in relationships in front of them. These incels cannot be helped, and I'm 100% convinced that they are sociopaths or psychopaths.

HowToCook40Humans · 2024-02-23T09:12:11+00:00

I think there needs to be a divide between actual incels and "incels". Actual incels are guys who just lost the luck of the draw. I remember seeing a guy on /r/sex months ago who was fit, educated, had friends and hobbies. No matter what he did, he couldn't really land a date. He wasn't bitter but he was curious what else he could do. He had male and female friends and said that none of them have ever told him he has an offputting personality. I would argue he is an actual incel.

"Incels" that people generally think of are men that many times have issues socializing and it's more apparent with women. These men usually don't have friends at all and if they do, it's one or two people who ultimately barely know them. Their standards don't seem to be applicable to them in the sense that they understand that preferences are a thing, but when it comes to women having such preferences, it's the woman choosing a "chad". They assume every other male is bad for their dream woman and anything going wrong in a relationship is due to the woman's poor choice despite the fact that that is not how relationships always are (for either sex). The few times I've listened to documentaries that had incel criminals, many people that knew them said they struggled to socialize with women or would lament over a woman they wanted but wouldn't approach her. A lot of their frustration is projection from insecurity. Being nicer to these type of "incels" doesn't change anything.

Like the MRA movement, actual incels have a point. There is a heiarchy of attractiveness, money, etc that makes it harder/easier to date. I am aware that I will likely never find a partner in this life. I'm not attractive, I'm short for a Black man and I will have a career late in life that makes eh money. It sucks, it hurts, but I'm acceptinig that reality.

I'm worried about red pill/incel grifters who are making these situations worse. I can't help but wonder how many people like Sneako and such make posts then turn off their phone and go lay beside a woman and have sex while guys think they have someone who understands.

Hopefully I don't sound ridiculous.

bottleblank · 2024-02-24T06:33:23+00:00

I am a virgin in my mid twenties. So I have felt what incels feel to some extent. I have seen friends feel similar experiences..

How it can cause you to feel less inclusive in friend groups, how it can cause you to socially withdraw, how you can lose purpose and meaning, how you lose your self confidence and destroy your self worth, how you start hating how you look when you see social media, how you start avoiding social media, how you become invisible to the society, how you can't look yourself in the mirror.

There are two types of blackpillers imo. One which are 'status' blackpillers, and the other one which is 'looks' blackpillers.

I think the problem is society measuring the value of a man based on what he can provide to a woman. This feeling that you are missing out on something and your life is shit without a woman is so strongly pushed in this society.

I think the solution is to fight against the current norms to create a society where men can celibacy or incelibacy should not affect them.

Men should not feel ashamed to engage in prostitution or stay celibate. Something like 'sexuality abolition'. I think they are queer from a MRA standpoint. We need to find media which shows how men can create identity without women. Can we get some volcel movies?

The solution for incels is to join the mens rights movement. They need to realise that a man's life is not less valuable than a woman and if it's treated like that, that's the problem of the society which needs to change. Hence they need to fight. It will provide them community, meaning, non judgemental safe space, purpose. Their experiences will be heard and valued. It's not about masculinity coping or men sent their own way. It's about you not caring about your own self respect and other men and giving in to society's bullshit rather than fighting against it.

But they don't sadly and this is where my criticism of some of the incels begins which is blackpill. The internalized misandry and self loathing in incels has caused them to hate other men. But they hate Chads and normies more than women.

They want men to suffer and pay. Hence they will talk about civilizational collapse. They don't want to change society. They want the world to burn.... They will advocate for reducing population of men to inflate value of men, talk about male antinatalism, etc.

I understand them. I have felt that. But this is why they are still gynocentric. I have seen them being called failed bluepillers by manosphere. It's true to some extent. They deify women, believe they have some disease which will be cured by a woman's touch, believe that women will 'save' them by loving them. I agree that there are certainly some masculinity copers but a man's life = woman's life is not some cope. It should be a basic belief.

I think incels need to be MRAs, and be against gynocentrism and create their identity in a way that's not dependent on women's validation.

MRA should serve as a safe space to provide meaning and hope to them and guide them to create a pro-male identity.

If anyone is going to help incels, it will be us. Everyone else will be hostile to them.

Hot-Capital · 2024-02-23T10:04:51+00:00

Incelism is just response to a hyper-sexualized culture. If a culture had strong sexual norms and morality it would not be a problem.

2024-02-23T15:13:47+00:00

I don't like these incels or redpills, but we should help them to get them out from that rabbit hole. Like I'm kinda pro-feminist (I support abortion rights, sexual freedom and equal rights for women and men) but we really should help men if they need it.

Title	Let’s talk about incels
Author	Fallen-Shadow-1214
Upvotes	89
Comments	132
Date	February 23, 2024 6:41 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1axtybt/lets_talk_about_incels/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/lets-talk-about-incels.1246187 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246187

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