I think both manosphere types and feminists have interesting and sometimes overlapping points when it comes to modern gender dynamics. For context, I’m left-leaning but also resonate with some redpill ideas.

Both sides would likely agree that (1) women have made huge strides in the workforce, giving them the freedom to avoid relationships they don't actually desire, and (2) this shift has changed the value proposition men historically offered in relationships.

Consider the 80/20 rule. Both sides are partially right. You’ll see average-looking couples at Target or CVS, so clearly not every woman is holding out for a top tier man. But at the same time, dating app stats highlight a broader trend: attraction has become more important than ever for men. That’s part of the reason why gym culture and aesthetics have exploded, and why streamers like Marlon — whose main draw is being good-looking — blow up.

On Reddit or other platforms, women often chalk up men's dating struggles to "skill issues" or assume they're bitter or entitled. And while that subset exists, I think the real issue is that most men just aren’t that attractive — not in a defective way, but just statistically average. Getting left on read by every girl you met at the bar last Saturday probably has more to do with your attractiveness than whether you go to therapy or are emotionally intelligent.

The decline of third spaces makes things worse. In places like bars, clubs, or dating apps — where women don’t know you — the bar to be attractive is really high. That’s why guys who can pull are respected, and why one of the first insults thrown at a man making RP points is some version of, “You're an incel who gets no bitches.” Approaching strange women as an average guy almost feels like being a telemarketer. Most women simply aren't trying to buy what you're selling to them, even if they're average themselves.

Yes, attractive people get better results — duh. But this can’t be overstated. After a glow-up and body transformation in my mid-20s, it's now easier for me to have sex with 3 girls than it was to get a single coffee date back when I was average looking. Raising your attractiveness improves your results by an order of magnitude.

Women aren't a monolith — everyone has different tastes. But there are general traits people gravitate toward. I can’t know if one specific woman will find me attractive, but I can gauge how I rank overall. That matters, especially for men, because looks are a scalable and low-effort way to get attention. Unlike personality, which you have to display through conversation, looks work immediately. Plus, men don’t face the same downsides women do when it comes to attention. Female attention poses no threat. There's no fear of being “used for your body.”

There’s more I could say, but I’ll leave it there. Curious to hear thoughts — do you agree that both sides bring valid points about the current dating market?