706,399 posts

Married Mormon Monk Mode

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May 12, 2018
10 upvotes

Obligatory Cut the Shit Summary

  • Write down your stats (height, weight, bf%, lifts). 6'2", 193, 12.7% BF, 1RM bench 250, squat 305, dead 360. Great progress from where I started lifting nothing and at 15% BF.
  • Write down all the books you have read in the sidebar and one sentence about what you learned from each one (even if you haven't finished it yet). Read NMMNG, rational male, MMSLP, blue professor’s podcasts, Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, and Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle. A few pages left in WISNIFG, which is awesome but tough to internalize. Bang is next on my upcoming business trip.
  • Get your testosterone levels checked and write them down. Nope.
  • Write down your ratio of sexual initiations/rejections. Batting under .200
  • Write down the number of women besides your wife you could call right now to chill this weekend. 0.
  • Shit, write down the name of the last girl you flirted with who isn't your wife. None, working DL 1-6.
  • Write down how many days over the past 15 you have actively gamed your wife. 10 (5 were quality).
  • Write down two things you do that make you a good catch. I'm smart and I make people laugh.
  • Write down what you would do today if you did not have a wife/kids to go home to. Work, hike or bike, lift, read, then hang out with friends.
  • Write down what Dread Level you are on. Probably 5, gearing up for 6.
  • Write down how many more months you have to go until you are an attractive man with options. 9.

Background

I’m [37] an active Mormon, 3 kids and SAHM [35]. I draw the dread line at infidelity, so I know I’m hampering my MRP effectiveness. That’s OK, it’s MRP on hard mode and what I signed up for. Swallowed the pill 6 months ago. The last 10 years I’ve been a compliant, needy, sickening beta working my butt off for regular starfish and servicing a couple times a week, doing all I could to win back the affection, love, and desire she showed our first 5 years. I was really pathetic about trying to get those first 5 years back and tried everything under the sun to get her interested in sex again. She’s super controlling around sex and my relationships with other females and has serious trust issues. I agreed to all her conditions and rules for 10 years. Her trust issues stem from somewhere I can’t fathom, but I’ve been about as good and faithful a husband as a man can be. Most of her distrust is from me telling her about co-workers flirting with me and me shutting it down.

Wife showed good signs of responding when I started MRP. But here’s the deal, I’m trying to be transparent in my marriage. I talk too much to her, tell her too much, and don’t STFU enough. I think honesty is an important foundation in marriage, but I think I take honesty too far. She thinks not nearly enough.

I kept some pictures of her that she wanted me to destroy 5 years ago and 2 months ago finally told her I still had them. Damaged some trust and that was my bad for not being man enough to deal with her anger 5 years ago and keeping it from her. After that, I decided to put all the cards on the table. She asked for my journal I’ve been writing trying to figure out our marriage and sexuality for the last 2 years. I gave her the whole thing (no RP mentions) but I did record that I had an epiphany 6 months ago what worked with her and what didn’t, and that sometimes her body responded when her mind didn’t (that really pissed her off).

I told her I was done with all the rules I’d agreed to the last 10 years, and that I was going to keep my marriage promises of fidelity to her, avoiding emotional affairs, and avoiding porn. But I was going to do my own thing and get ideas about sex wherever I wanted, outside her control. She flipped out as I asserted my frame and staged interventions with family, friends, and counselors. I agreed to it all, I’m an open book. In marriage counseling now, but shopping for a new one as ours is retiring.

She also insisted on a month of abstinence. I agreed to that and now we’re a week past that. She gave me a hard no yesterday. I kino a lot, but pretty mild stuff. She seems to be reacting negatively to every masculine RP trait. When I kino, she says it's not congruent with how I'm treating her (really how she's feeling about me not being a compliant needy obedient beta). When I kino a bit heavier, she calls it sexual abuse, assault or molestation. When I AM, I’m laughing at her and disrespecting her. She says I’m disrespecting her clear boundary of she only wants sex at most once a week and only on the weekend if I initiate any other time. I’ve simply stopped letting her manipulate me with her emotions. She thinks I’m a cold, callus asshole. Paradoxically, she says all my actions and most of my words are kind, but my heart is far from her. I’ve been focusing on myself, lifting in the evenings, going out with the guys to see movies, doing stuff with the kids, stuff like that and she feels neglected. When I set aside an evening to be with her and do something light and fun, she says she can’t do light and fun with this disconnect and proceeds to engage in verbal intercourse. I’ve been withdrawing from that. She says for the same reason of no mental or emotional connection, she can’t even think of connecting physically and is extending the abstinence.

Maybe I’m not attractive enough (I’m probably a point above her now), or maybe I was so good at being a beta that it’ll take longer than normal for me, or maybe I have that special kind of snowflake that won’t respond to MRP. Could be. Her dad is alpha and she has no respect for him and liked me because I wasn’t like him. The Mormon church raises really good betas focused on service and with the women on pedestals, and I was a top-notch blue pill beta.

I laid out my vision to her of us working on our issues, mine being my own validation and getting over defensiveness and anger, and I think she knows her issues of trust and control, but hasn’t accepted them as issues. I suggested we work on ourselves for a year and decide if our marriage is working at that point. I said I think we can be happier and closer than we’ve ever been. She didn’t buy into it and said she can never fully meet my sexual desires.

Question

I’ve read that monk mode is essentially for single guys focusing on their mission and not getting distracted. I’m thinking it might be monk mode time for me. I’m already involuntarily there and I’m pretty sure she sees holding out on sex as the last lever she has to try and get me back into my beta box that I somehow escaped from.

I know I’ll get lots of guys saying to next her, and I might in a year, but I’m willing to give her a chance for that year and give her the opportunity and motivation to address her trust and control issues that she hasn’t even accepted yet. The stay plan is the go plan. I said that in a previous post with a 15 year timeline when my youngest is out of the house. I’m down to a year timeline and I’m coming to peace with the fact that my wife might never change and might never trust me. Not sure if she ever has. I’ve fully realized that no matter how much I do, how transparent I am, that won’t make her trust me. I literally can’t make her trust me. She has to choose to trust me or not.

What is the advice on monk mode in my situation? Stop all kino? Keep some light comforting kino? Only stop full initiating? Or just keep doing what I’m doing since she already sees me as an out of control sex-crazed asshole who is sexually abusing her?


Post Information
Title Married Mormon Monk Mode
Author becoming_alpha
Upvotes 10
Comments 112
Date 12 May 2018 06:39 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204509
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8iucnn/married_mormon_monk_mode/
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Comments

[–]BobbyPeru16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy

You are completely in her frame. Read through your post and see if you can see it.

Why would you agree to giving her your journal. Stand up for yourself- that is a hard boundary- personal information. Also, agreeing to no sex for a month was a huge mistake- actually, the big mistake is that you even entertained it. You should have A&A’d the crap out of that.

Quit taking her so seriously

You don’t have to do everything she says

STFU, work the dread levels, and lift.

You are a long way from Kansas Toto.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

You're right. I've made lots of progress from the pathetic beta I was, but I still have a long way to go. Making more steps every day. Turned off GPS tracking on my phone yesterday, handled her freakout about it with some fogging and a little DEERing (I know, I know). I'm learning to say no. WISNIFG was written for me, and NMMNG.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

an active Mormon

how about read a science book, or the ces letter you fucking faggot

[–]redesquire1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Telling a believing mormon to read the CES letter is the mormon equivalent to red knighting. 99% of the time it doesn't work because they're not ready or willing to accept the truths found in it. They choke on and spit out the CES letter just like an unprepared beta will choke on and spit out the red pill. I prefer MRP when it's actually amoral.

[–]RecoveringBPAddict0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

No. We exist that have read it and come to terms with its ideas... accurate or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

you haven't come to terms with shit

[–]RecoveringBPAddict0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I see. Grow some frame and kill the ego then dare to come tell me what I’ve come to terms with or not.

If this little note triggered you to post your pussy comment, you have a ways to go.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

you don't write well

[–]RecoveringBPAddict0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ouch! You got me ... pussy. Hike up your skirt and stop getting triggered by all things mormon!

Looking at your post history, it’s clear that something about it triggers you and you get sucked into whatever frame is discussing it. RP praxology is amoral leaving each participant to take what works for them within their own moral boundaries whatever they may be.

You have this weakness that will continue to suck you into others framing until you address whatever it is that weakens you about it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

so easy to rattle

just like joseph smith

i can just see you looking through my post history. it's cozy here in your head

[–]robertwservice197419 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your post reads like a Where's Waldo of covert contracts. I'm sure I missed a few, but here are those I saw:

  • Monk mode? Mommy please notice that I'm going my own way and ask me what's wrong so we can talk and things will get better.
  • Intervention? If I agree with mommy and family, we can go to counseling and fix ourselves, so things will get better.
  • Her trust issues? If I can discover why mommy doesn't trust me, I can fix it and things will get better.
  • Being transparent about MRP? Mommy will see that I'm working hard to be better for her and things will get better.
  • Told the truth about the photos? If I tell the truth, mommy will see how honest I am, forgive me and things will get better.
  • My vision? If we work on our issues together, things will get better.
  • Her issues? If she just would acknowledge her trust and control issues, we can fix them and things will get better.
  • One year deadline? If we set a deadline for our marriage working, she should agree to it, so we can start working to make things better.

"In the event of a loss of cabin pressure, place the oxygen mask over your nose and mouth. Secure your own mask before assisting others."

Stop using covert contracts in an attempt to convince her to put on your mask.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Her issues? If she just would acknowledge her trust and control issues, we can fix them and things will get better.

Yeah, you're right on this one. I do legitimately want to give her a chance to fix her control and trust issues. There's some deep (as someone mentioned maybe cluster B) stuff going on. I'll take the time to give her a chance, but the real work needs to be done on me, and if we get a year down the road and we're in the same place, I'm ready to nuke it.

One year deadline? If we set a deadline for our marriage working, she should agree to it, so we can start working to make things better.

Don't care if she agrees, that's my timeline.

Overall, you're right, this isn't about her, it's about me and I have a ton of work to do still on being my own validation.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This.

[–]2ndalRed Beret8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

You openly admit doing multiple things that go against the principals here and still seem confused as to why you've made little progress. Also you seem to love following rules. So why not follow these rules? Why not actually do the hard work? Monk mode is yet another escape for you. Stop running away. Confront your problems and overcome them directly.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've have had some stuff clearly pointed out to me that I'm doing wrong. I appreciate that. I agree monk mode would be an escape. I thought maybe it neutralizes her last car (withholding sex), but that's playing in her frame.

[–]Thisismyusername11000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What neutralizes her power in witholding sex is when you stop giving a shit when she says no.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not necessarily...

It depends on the reason you're doing it.

If you're doing it as a fuck you to her, that's in her frame.

If you're doing it because you haven't evolved enough yet to imitate sex and hold your OI when rejected, or if you want to clear your mind to focus on your MAP instead of steaming about your lack of sex, that's in your frame.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

I think honesty is an important foundation in marriage

Certainly that is what we have been told!

Unfortunately I don't think it is true.

As Christians we are called to be like Jesus so let me ask you this: Was Jesus straightforward and "honest" every time he spoke?

Hopefully you know the Bible enough to recognize that in fact, He was deliberately opaque almost every time He spoke! I am not saying He was deceitful! That would be impossible. But He was INDIRECT and he told stories to let the listener draw her own conclusions.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Mark 4:10-12)

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Did Jesus vomit his emotions on the flock? NO!! He went to the mountain alone to pray. Should a man following Christ's model to love his woman like Christ loved the Church dump emotions on his woman? Of course not! That would not be following Christ's example.

Now go...and sin no more.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And what about when his disciples ask him to go to the feast of tabernacles and he replies he won’t go because he’ll get killed. He sends them on by themselves and then goes up incognito anyway, later on.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Blessings upon you, professor.

You're right, indirect parables were his way. I think I need to look at it in that light.

[–]redesquire0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Keep in mind also that you're NOT actually transparent with her in all things. If you were, you'd have run to her about fight club. And, you removed all RP references from your journal. Turn your filter significantly up and stop reporting to mom so much. Need to know only.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Turn your filter significantly up and stop reporting to mom so much. Need to know only.

I look autistic when I STFU. It's such a drastic departure from me trying to be transparent the last decade. You're right, I'm not transparent now, I'm not talking about fight club and I think that's the right approach. Clearly, transparent doesn't work. I don't think being autistic and not responding works, or giving one word answers. I suck at giving enough information to be responsive without oversharing.

[–]booradley0010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Avoid drastic changes for now and just work on moderating the flow of information. Decide in advance what things you want her to know about and then filter accordingly. Also, “not responding” is a different issue. You need to be the one defining the issues and controlling the message, not reactive to her (e.g. not responding). There’s a reason lawyers want to be first to file. It allows us to frame the issues and control the message offensively instead of being in the defensive posture of responding.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

A few things to think about. I am not a Mormon but I do know a bit about religion.

First, if your faith/Jesus is important to you consider this: Neither Christ/Apostles/ prophets preach church membership. They preached The Kingdom of God. So, when you weigh MRP and your faith consider that you are likely weighing an organisation system built around control and conditioning not faith.

Read u/bluepillprofessor’s article on Christians and divorce. It’s solid. Make up your own mind. You are not locked in. What your wife is doing is against the Bible you believe in but she is supported by an organisation that claims to uphold biblical values. That is not what they are doing. This is wrong.

Honesty and integrity are not the same thing as being an open book. Stop sharing your inner life completely. STFU.

Mark the cards of everyone and anyone who was involved in the interventions. They have joined in destabilising you, your family and your future for their own interests. The fact that they all believe they were being virtuous means they have no comprehension of this. They all probably felt powerful by lording it over you. These are dangerous people. Consider how precarious this is for your health, psychology and whole life.

Stop shutting down the flirting. Let it be. Operate push/pull in these situations. Break through approach anxiety by approaching beautiful women. Play the eye contact game as outlined in the 60 DOD: Game post. You don’t have to cheat. Many people here won’t either and “catch and release” will increase your abundance mentality.

Never again check for her sexual receptivity. Do what you want when you want.

Monk mode as stated here is you attempting to avoid rejection.

Anything about sexual abuse is a deal breaker. She is crying RAPE. She will fuck you legally.

Start to prepare your exit fund and relocation now. You need to be able to walk out the door if she tries this shit. Organise all your clothes and things for a quick exit. This is a great way to declutter your life and assists you with focusing on your vision. If she asks about it “it’s part of your improvement plan”.

Get out of the house as much as possible. Anything that involves your church or good works does not count. Do that stuff if you want. But it is not what we are talking about here.

One thing I can tell you is if you keep up the work you will see The Real. The false ties will dissolve and you will be empowered to guide your own life for the rest of your life and you will see the controllers for what they are.

Forgive yourself for what you did not know in the beta days. Move forward and never look back. Retrospection is for folks at funerals.

You will learn to let go and it will be like your first breath.

Keep swimming up to surface.

CR

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, sex abuse accusation was right after I said I was done with all the old rules. Huge red flag and signaled how serious her mental issues are.

I'm going to start working on my exit plan, talk to an attorney, and buy those concert tickets.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

I got a lot of stuff to say, so sit down.

First, you can follow directions. Props to you on the cut the shit summary. Rarely do we see a guy here who does that. Odds are you'll get more help that way.

Get your testosterone levels checked and write them down. Nope.

Need to get that checked.

I draw the dread line at infidelity, so I know I’m hampering my MRP effectiveness. That’s OK, it’s MRP on hard hell mode and what I signed up for

Fixed that for you.

She’s super controlling around sex and my relationships with other females and has serious trust issues.

I'm sensing cluster b and personality issues here, and a dash of codependency mixed in.

I talk too much to her, tell her too much, and don’t STFU enough. I think honesty is an important foundation in marriage, but I think I take honesty too far. She thinks not nearly enough.

As many of the guys will say, you need to STFU a lot more. At least you recognize that you need to STFU. But recognizing it and doing it are two different things. Pro-tip - STFU is initially for shit tests, though many people think it is for everything. Don't autistically STFU. Talk to your wife normally. When she starts acting shitty to you, THEN STFU.

I kept some pictures of her that she wanted me to destroy 5 years ago and 2 months ago finally told her I still had them. Damaged some trust and that was my bad for not being man enough to deal with her anger 5 years ago and keeping it from her.

Remember, it's not about the pictures. It's about control and frame. So what if you had naughty pictures of your WIFE for crying out loud. I'm sure that if Eve sent Adam pictures nowadays he would be saving them on his smartphone.

She asked for my journal I’ve been writing trying to figure out our marriage and sexuality for the last 2 years. I gave her the whole thing (no RP mentions) but I did record that I had an epiphany 6 months ago what worked with her and what didn’t, and that sometimes her body responded when her mind didn’t (that really pissed her off).

First of all, you desperately need No More Mister Nice Guy. What is your frame here. Right now your wife says "Jump" and you say "How high?". Not good. Secondly, I'm ok with the journaling, some guys do that, but did you even want her to read it? Again, it comes to frame.

I told her I was done with all the rules I’d agreed to the last 10 years, and that I was going to keep my marriage promises of fidelity to her, avoiding emotional affairs, and avoiding porn. But I was going to do my own thing and get ideas about sex wherever I wanted, outside her control. She flipped out as I asserted my frame and staged interventions with family, friends, and counselors. I agreed to it all, I’m an open book. In marriage counseling now, but shopping for a new one as ours is retiring.

Seriously, is this like one giant blue pill amusement park where everyone comes down here? This is a bit nuts. Interventions?!? What, does she have the pastors and friends come in and say "You should listen to your wife more"? My viewpoint is that this is ALL power dynamics. Everything so far. You are changing the power dynamics, and she is reacting heavily to that.

She also insisted on a month of abstinence.

Again, look at the power dynamics here, especially around sex.

She gave me a hard no yesterday.

Read this - https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3qplxm/the_husbands_dilemma_when_to_withhold_affection/

Remember. She offers sex, you offer attention. When she turns down sex, you turn down attention. But don't turn it down like Rambo. You reduce it by 1%. You fill up your calendar. "Sorry honey, I have jujitsu tonight." And you show no butthurt. I linked a J10 post about not showing butthurt recently.

She seems to be reacting negatively to every masculine RP trait.

Power dynamics. I even suspect that she is lacking congruency, where the words out of her mouth don't match physical reactions/actions.

She says I’m disrespecting her clear boundary of she only wants sex at most once a week and only on the weekend if I initiate any other time.

I like to call this "hoop sex", as in you must jump in through several hoops on command to get what you want. Remember, you are worthy of real sex, not hoop sex.

I’ve simply stopped letting her manipulate me with her emotions. She thinks I’m a cold, callus asshole. Paradoxically, she says all my actions and most of my words are kind, but my heart is far from her. I’ve been focusing on myself, lifting in the evenings, going out with the guys to see movies, doing stuff with the kids, stuff like that and she feels neglected. When I set aside an evening to be with her and do something light and fun, she says she can’t do light and fun with this disconnect and proceeds to engage in verbal intercourse. I’ve been withdrawing from that. She says for the same reason of no mental or emotional connection, she can’t even think of connecting physically and is extending the abstinence.

This is like the codependency bible here, pun intended. Dash of power dynamics. You're withdrawing a bit because of the sex, and she doesn't want to follow the 1000 ft rope.

Maybe I’m not attractive enough (I’m probably a point above her now), or maybe I was so good at being a beta that it’ll take longer than normal for me, or maybe I have that special kind of snowflake that won’t respond to MRP. Could be. Her dad is alpha and she has no respect for him and liked me because I wasn’t like him. The Mormon church raises really good betas focused on service and with the women on pedestals, and I was a top-notch blue pill beta.

I doubt it's the attractive part - I sadly suspect that it is the church brainwashing and putting women up on pedestals/viewpoint on sex that is the problem, along with issues from her youth.

She didn’t buy into it and said she can never fully meet my sexual desires.

The stay plan is the go plan. You know this. I'm sure you know that the medium is the message too - https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

On to your question. You probably do need some monk mode, and I like u/simbarlion's comment about mental monk mode. You still need work on your frame, game, and your STFU - stop telling her stuff. If you want to go get a beer by yourself one night, just say "I'm going out." and don't tell her where you're going (aka validation, pedestalizing, "reporting to mommy" behavior).

Sadly, your wife has some deep seated issues about sex, relationships, and how a man should interact with a woman. Codependency, narcissism... it's all there. I'm sorry dude. This is some serious stuff, and I doubt that you'll be able to get past it.

For monk mode, treat her as a business partner in Mom and Dad Inc. Be polite, work with her. Tap into that part that still cares and loves her and still go on dates and have fun (or try to have fun). Shot down? Go do something fun with your buddies/work out/have a beer at the bar/go to library/get a decaf at Starbucks etc etc. Continue to improve yourself.

The stay plan is the same as the go plan. Props to you for taking some ownership in your life.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Thanks Steel.

That’s OK, it’s MRP on hard hell mode

Amen.

I'm sensing cluster b and personality issues here, and a dash of codependency mixed in.

Full blown codependency. Counselor identified that in a couple meetings. I see some cluster b, maybe more will surface as we go.

First of all, you desperately need No More Mister Nice Guy. What is your frame here. Right now your wife says "Jump" and you say "How high?". Not good.

Right, and I still have a long way to go, but since I gave her that journal and a told her I was done with all her rules, I've STFU more. Not enough, but more. Working on that.

10 minutes ago she asked how my brother was (I was just on a half hour call with him). I said fine. She said is that all, just fine? I said yeah. She said what did you talk about? I said he wanted to talk about the end of Infinity War (which he did). She said did you have a nice talk about me? I stared at her and shrugged and said I'm not going to talk about what we talked about. She said well that tells me everything I need to know. Then she left and said she's going on a walk.

Yeah, I suck at STFU, but I'm trying. I've got a lot of years of beta instincts to overcome.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Turned off GPS tracking on my phone yesterday.

I stared at her and shrugged and said I'm not going to talk about what we talked about.

I realize that you're just beginning here and still early in Phase 1: Stop operating in her frame, but your reactive, sometimes passive-aggressive STFU and assertions of independence give the appearance of a toddler or teenage child, or a disgruntled employee: "No! You can't make me eat my broccoli" or "I'll pretend I don't know where that file is even though we both know that I do, because it's not in my job description" to others. This may be a necessary stage for you, but realize that it is only a first step; it is not "attractive", but merely "not unattractive"; it's not yet frame, but merely "not her frame".

To bring her on board and to establish that essential emotional connection in your marriage on your terms rather than hers will require you to frame, project, and articulate your own, alternate, appealing vision and narrative for your relationship and interactions. Obviously, her "you be my BP beta servant" model isn't working for you (or for her, really), but you have to replace it by leading her to your own, better alternative, not just reject hers and withdraw passive-aggressively, thereby reactively leaving it to her frame and leadership to redefine your job description as First Officer. As Captain, you will both want and need to draft the job descriptions, establish the ship's culture, and get buy-in from your crew (or eventually hire a new crew if the old one can't adapt).

TL;DR: You will eventually have to lead and inspire, not merely "not follow."

[–]redesquire1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

10 minutes ago she asked how my brother was (I was just on a half hour call with him). I said fine. She said is that all, just fine? I said yeah. She said what did you talk about? I said he wanted to talk about the end of Infinity War (which he did). She said did you have a nice talk about me? I stared at her and shrugged and said I'm not going to talk about what we talked about. She said well that tells me everything I need to know. Then she left and said she's going on a walk.

This didn't start out as a shit test but you turned it into one. This is how the conversation should have gone.

Her: How's your brother? You: He's great, he was really interested in talking about the end of Infinity War. Couldn't get him to shut up haha.

In this scenario, you control the message. That's leading. That's operating in your frame. And, that's likely the end of the conversation. Even if she still had followed up with "did you have a nice talk about me" you should recognize that not as a shit test, but a shitty comfort test, in which case AA or STFU are probably not your best plays. Your opacity in response to her initial questions (which were not unreasonable btw) is what led to the shitty comfort test. Staring at her, shrugging and telling her that you're going to shut her out doesn't pass the shit test component and doesn't provide her with the comfort she's seeking.

This is one reason why your kino attempts aren't working. She asks a simple question and instead of answering and taking control of the message, you went autistic Rambo with your answer, thinking that by doing so you're operating in your frame. Later when you touch her she's still thinking about how you couldn't even answer a simple question without fucking it up. Instead of progressing to levels 4-6, you need more time at Dread Level 1.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You're right. I need to work on dread level 1.

Even if she still had followed up with "did you have a nice talk about me" you should recognize that not as a shit test, but a shitty comfort test, in which case AA or STFU are probably not your best plays.

What's a better response here to that follow up question? I saw a suggestion to AA that and say we talked about you like crazy and couldn't even talk about the movie. If AA or STFU isn't the best play, what is?

[–]booradley0010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The goal should be to avoid getting to these second level inquiries, which you do through assertively controlling the message and framing the issue. And if the second level inquiry arises, the tool you use will vary based on the circumstances, her mood, the time of month, etc. Start becoming more comfortable with all of them, as there’s no one size fits all approach. WISNIFG needs to become your bible.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"blah blah blah infinity war."

"So did you talk about me?"

"Absolutely! We couldn't stop talking about you! You're the biggest Marvel fan of all of us!" - said with a smirk.

Remember, most of your conversation is non-verbal. Women are masters of picking up indirect cues. You need to be congruent with your body language and delivery and the words coming out of your mouth.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Work on your AA/AM.

"Did you have a nice talk about me? "

"Oh ya! We barely even got to talk about infinity war because we were talking so hard about you!!"

[–]black_jack_davy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My viewpoint is that this is ALL power dynamics.

This is the most insightful sentence in this whole page, OP. Speaking mormon a mormon, your entire status relationship with your wife is derived from the church (by default). This means that the church is a big stick she can hit you with if she doesn't like what you're doing at any point—there are enough blue-pilled talks and pedestalizing quotes around to justify almost any amount of obsequiousness to her.

To reiterate, you need to establish 1) status outside of the Mormon context and 2) be fun ("cool") to be around. You have to game the system a bit. I don't know if you'll stay or not, but these are both necessary to having the go plan and the stay plan.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is like the codependency bible here, pun intended. Dash of power dynamics.

So am I doing it wrong or on the right track?

Sadly, your wife has some deep seated issues about sex, relationships, and how a man should interact with a woman. Codependency, narcissism... it's all there. I'm sorry dude. This is some serious stuff, and I doubt that you'll be able to get past it.

Yeah, I'm coming to terms with this as it seems to be the general consensus.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You probably should get some resources on how to deal with codependency. There's a reddit sub for that - codependents I believe. Additionally, it all comes down to frame. Your frame. Your reality. Build it. Make it strong. Don't feel guilty for saying no to your wife for something. Read that book again.

Honestly, with you coming to terms that you have a codependent wife, my advice to you would be to work on yourself, and then when you have worked on yourself for a while (and you determine how much that is), then work to see what can be done with her mental issues. It's very possible that they can't be resolved - but maybe they can. Not sure right now, not enough data.

Take ownership of all areas of your life. Finances. Health. Work. Become someone who can look in the mirror and say "Yeah, I'm good", with there being so much in that statement (health, self respect, confident, etc). Once you get there... well, at that point, your frame will be strong enough for even the biggest shit tests.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dude, you are boring the living shit out of her. You literally are an open book. No wonder she has zero tingles. Sex with you is a chore. You Need to STFU, stop DEERing, and up the dread. Don’t cave. She needs a man that can stand up to her. I don’t give a fuck what she says, you’ve given her everything she wants, even allowed her to read your journal, and look where it’s gotten you. You’re a fucking child and she’s your mommy. You lead by giving the orders, not following them.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep. You're exactly right. Thanks.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret9 points10 points  (18 children) | Copy

You are honest. You are more beta than beta, you act like she is your God and ruler.

Your going to get a lot of comments. I have one simple suggestion for you and that is to do a mental Monk mode. What this means is to walk your own path alongside her path for a while, not just following her along hers. I am suggesting this independently of the physical Monk mode you're proposing.

The end goal is to establish yourself as your own man and eventually captain which is achieved by getting her to switch to walking along side you on your path. You have no hope of getting that outcome until your mind set changes.

Most importantly stop telling her everything. Stop expecting anything... be pleased when she behaves how you want and indifferent when she does not. And be interesting and awesome at every point in between.

None of these suggestions will rock the boat, at least not badly, which you need at this point. However they will define you as your own man, not husband of Mrs becoming Alpha. Once you've nailed this you can start expecting more substantial changes in your relationship

Tldr. Slowly build yourself up to one day being the kind of guy who might just be the captain

[–]simbarlionRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Have you ever seen a small child do a self imposed time out / punishment ? Like going and sitting in a corner with a blanket and crying looking around hoping someone is noticing?.

That is about how your wife will see you while you implement your physical Monk mode.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Got it, thanks.

[–]FoxShitNasty833 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree with this action as it's the same type of action i am taking right now and its helping me immensely. This helps you to break the sick maternal bond you have with your wife. she will also start to treat you differently, these changes may seem subtle on the surface but in doing this you deeply separate yourself from her. This action enables you to have your own space and grow your own masculine identity. This for me results in a less cunty, bitchy wife it also confuses her and she starts to orbit you and deer to you. To date this mental withdraw has been the strongest impact for me so far

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What this means is to walk your own path alongside her path for a while, not just following her along hers.

Counselor pointed out we are codependent. I've spent 10 years getting validation from her IV drip sex. She uses me as an emotional tampon to avoid feeling feelings she doesn't like.

A couple days ago I told her part of my self improvement is fixing my needy dependent mindset. I told her I don't need her, I want her. She said the first part is obvious. She doesn't care about the second part until I get back in my beta box.

She sees I've separated myself from her and she thinks we need to come back together to have a marriage. I'm not going back to her frame, in fact I'm going to push toward more independence and not reporting to mommy. Mental monk mode sounds like the right approach to get there.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why you really need to STFU. Most of this is more successful when you let her hamster run. When you tell her everything it changes how you play the game. You wouldn’t walk up as the quarterback and tell the defense everything you are going to do and how you are going to do it. You are practically seeking validation of your progress with her by telling her all of this.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

Hmmmmm... not one reply from OP. I lived in Utah for five years, and I understand Mormons very well. They don’t swear. OP claims to be an active Mormon yet swears several times in the main text. The whole thing seems a bit over-the-top.

I am calling out a troll job here

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some of us swear, though it's rare. I usually save it for emphasis.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ex Mormon here... I swore like a fucking sailor when I was Mormon.

OP talks like a Mormon.

[–]alphasixfour1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Also Mormon. active. Swear all the fucking time.

[–]amalgamator1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Even around your wife? If so, you are in the 0.001% who would do that and still be an active Mormon.

[–]alphasixfour1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I moderate my language around my wife as I do children and polite company. Still swear. Wife hates it but I do. “Fuck” is a bedroom only word for her and only when my DEVI game is solid. She gets pissed if I use it in anger. But when I do it’s worth it.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I thought I was the only one! hugs I would LOVE it if my wife would drop the F bomb during sex but she is still just too mentally damaged/suppressed from Mormonism...maybe someday! I think there are a surprising number of Mormons here in this sub compared to % in the USA. Sigh.

[–]alphasixfour2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

OP is right. Mormonism makes great beta plowhorses. Too much emphasis on being the nice guy and overcompensating for our patriarchal image by pedestalizing women.

But Mormonism when applied correctly makes self reliant alpha leaders. Some of the toughest asskickers in US history have been Mormons.

Guys who see this disconnect get self conflicted like crazy and some end up here.

Unfortunately we no longer make men. Needs to change.

[–]redesquire1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Truth.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's up to us to bring masculinity back to its rightful place in the church. It's right there in the family proclamation. Preside (lead and own your shit), provide, protect (lift to be capable of this).

[–]redesquire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I prefer provide, protect and procreate as the 3 "p's" of masculinity. Family Proclamation makes absolutely no reference to sex.

[–]redesquire2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm a non-believing Mormon with a believing Mormon wife. The fuck word is reserved for fucking and fighting in my house. She only started using it during sex a few months ago but is now saying it on the regular. 2 years ago (pre RP) I never would have dared to say it to her and I never would have dreamed she would be telling me to fuck her harder, to fuck her face, or any of the other dirty things she's now saying during DEVI sex. [Minor edit for clarification]

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's my example.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’ve read that monk mode is essentially for single guys focusing on their mission and not getting distracted.

Stop hamstering; you're just looking for an excuse to avoid the rejection when you initiate. Full monk mode, for you now, is just avoiding the hard work.

Stop all kino?

Kino, game and flirt with no intent to escalate, most of the time; the goal is to maintain a positive sexual awareness and ambience, not to test the waters for her sexual receptivity. Do it at times when moving to sex is impossible. Your neediness is likely showing, which is unattractive; this can break that association in her mind. If you can't avoid the neediness, then "monk mode" for you could be gaming/kino/flirting only when sex is not possible, to break the association in your mind.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm going for the mental monk mode. I'll keep the kino going especially when sex isn't possible. A couple day family getaway coming, that's a great opportunity.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I know that you're Mormon, but do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and savior Patrice O'neal?

https://youtu.be/MjiXpuGCPWE

I think he might be able to help you out.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not going to lie, I thought the Book of Mormon was great!

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Mormon women like to fuck. They love to fuck actually.

Just not you.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Give me 9 more months.

[–]rocknrollchuck2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The comments in this thread are excellent advice for you. I will only add

STFU - Best Definition I've Ever Seen, which you need more than anything, and

What you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0, which will give you a coherent path to achieving what you want.

For the record, I'm a Christian. I disagree with the others' statements that the church is the problem here. The church only looks like the problem because you have allowed them and your wife to dictate what happens to you. Stop doing that. You are only accountable to God and yourself.

[–]johneyapocalypse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That first link you provided is pretty good.

Solid advice for uber-newbies.

Second, well, j10, of course it's good.

[–]CovenantSaxon1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

As a Mormon, you agree to believe the words of Joseph Smith and choose to live by them.

How would you like it if every member of your church felt free to adhere to the doctrines that they agreed with, but ignored anything that they weren't comfortable with?

Can you imagine what that church might look like?

Yes, you can. It would look just like your marriage.

You're welcome!

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I fully admit I'm a work in progress. Trying to balance it all playing on super hard mode.

[–]purifash1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dread.

Stop the counseling, that is entirely in her frame.

Lead her to where you want her to go. Keep offering her time, to do what you want to do, with her. Don't go monk, because that does not fit with your map.

Maybe suggest her read Secrets of a Passionate Marriage. While it is not RP, it is not BP ether and may help her meet you along the road you are traveling.

[–]wadearave1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you’re in Utah and have some time at the end of June I’m hosting a men’s retreat where we’ll be covering this topic for three days. I can probably make room for you.

You need to get some friends who you can talk to about this and stop talking to your wife. Talk is cheap. Women know this but betas like gab. It makes them feel like they’re doing something.

Stop talking and start taking action.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not in Utah but thanks.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

I have no idea where the concept of “the SAHM controls the man”

Your journal are your thoughts.

I burned all of mine.

Tell me what happens when you hit 12% BF or less.

You’re not a pussy. Quit acting like one.

Men initiate. You should be able to laugh when she says no

Are you lifting ?

Why in the fuck all the charades of counselors, pastor, parents ? Man the fuck up

She is not your pastor. She is not your friend as in men relationships.

Stoicism is your best friend and for ducks sake lift and get ripped

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Been lifting, hit 12% today. This is all about my codependent behavior and treating her like mommy that I have to report to. This is all DL 1.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

So why are you in counseling ?

Are you going to ask her permission to end it ?

Your wife can’t trust a spineless man, btw

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I agreed to counseling because I thought it would help. I need help getting over my codependent need for validation from her through sex. You guys are giving me a kick in the butt in that direction. I think it will be good for her to have a counselor point out her control and trust issues. Maybe not though, it's outside my control.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

While you are waisting your time why dont you guys share a cooy of 5 Love Languauges ?

The “Marriage Counselor” card is a bone or olive branch fir uou to wuiy fagging off and take the lead.

I told mine “no fucking way”. When you decide to grow that “Dyke hair cut, and quit your poor me shit, I’ll think about it .... “

She wants and needs a strong masculine man and leader that will direct her, not placate or bow to every whim. She does not want her failures and childish shit pointed out, she wants a man

WTF. ? Grow a set. You are the bread winner and you defer to her ?

Sidebar and lift. What's your squat ?

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh fuck, i had to google dyke haircut and it accurately matches my wife's very recent haircut.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I agreed to counseling because I thought it would help.

Here is one thing that I have learned. I've talked to you in the past. We are mormon as well and I at one point came across Dr Fife's stuff about a month or two before I discovered MRP. I actually really like what she does, but we have never gone thru her courses. I mentioned them to my wife, but she balked.

Here was my problem and my failed thinking pre-RP and where I think you may be stuck. I wanted Dr Fife to fix our problems. I wanted Dr Fife to tell my wife to be more sexual. I wanted Dr Fife to let my wife know that blowjobs are okay. I wanted Dr Fife to lead us to where we needed to be.

My problem was failed leadership. What did I do? I started leading. I started leading in the home. I started leading in the bedroom. I am not out of the woods yet, but I do now get blowjobs which is a new development in our 14 years of marriage and something she had never done prior.

To echo what screechhater is mentioning about counseling it is worthless if you are hoping that it will fix your problems. Only you can fix your problems. There is nothing wrong with gathering good advice and seeking help. But, you need to be leading this journey not a counselor. Speak to a counselor one on one if you need to, but it puts you in a difficult situation as a couple.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, I'm going to focus on me. Down the road once I've dealt with my codependency issues, if my wife hasn't worked on her control issues I'll setup a meeting with Fife as a last offramp for my wife to take before divorce. When I get to that point, I'm pretty sure I'll be OI as far as whether the marriage works out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

if my wife hasn't worked on her control issues

i think you may have missed what your mission companion here literally just told you

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

good reply

[–]Fritz_Frauenraub3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who knew Mormons were so blue?

Channel the spirit of Brigham Young and the great patriarchs of yore and implement dread immediately!

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I am not familiar with the mormon religion, but I don't understand the interventions that she organised.

What were you doing that needed intervention? Is there more to the story that you are not telling?

From your post, you have basically agreed to EVERYTHING she has dumped on you. You need to be your own man, not a vessel that a religion or society thinks yoh should be.

Monk mode is overcoming external factors that control how you react to the world, porn, games, weed, sex, masturbation etc etc.

You are reacting to anything she throws your way. Maybe she has the might of the church behind her, but I think you can see now how it is not working for you.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interventions were about I started showing signs of independence, and she pulled people in to try and get them to help fix me. She keeps trying to find how it's my problem that I want sex too much, that I looked at porn as a kid, that I kept sexy pictures of her. No porn, games, weed, alcohol, etc. Everyone she brought in said we're in over our heads and need counseling.

I'm going along with counseling for a while mostly in the hope the counselor will help her see her controlling and trust issues. I'll keep going only as long as I see it going in the right direction.

[–]suprathepeg0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Assume it’s over and you’re getting a divorce ASAP, work backwards from there. 1. Get a lawyer. Preferably a female shark. 2. Start planning the best possible exit strategy. Stash cash, build a custody case in yours and the children’s best interests. She is fucking high risk men, there may be other high risk behaviours you ca. Put before the court. 3. Might be a good idea to rack up some consumer debt while stashing cash. 4. Driving up your income and the value of your business before the divorce may be a bad choice. You don’t want to get stuck supporting a SAHM who fucks ex-con bikers in front of your kids... 5. Severely limit her access to family finances. Don’t pay her Shark lawyers bills if at all possible. My divorce went great largely because she had a low cost shit lawyer.

In the end the stay plan is the go plan. If you do work it out... Do your fucking best to make sure your negotiating that from the strongest possible position which is the same if she stays or goes.

Have you two signed a separation agreement?

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Seriously - go Count of Monte Cristo - but there are thing you can do NOW to protect yourself 1-2 years from now. Be wise and plan!!!

[–]suprathepeg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Explain?

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No, we're still in the same bed, except last night she went and slept in a kid's room.

[–]johneyapocalypse0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Dude, the mormon strategy of "share everything" is 1,000,000,000% at odds with mrp. I understand that can be a challenge. I knew a mormon very well and some church elder or wizard or someone important had told he and his wife that they needed to be "one unit" and share everything.

I found it repulsive.

Even my own HR Director found his behavior off-putting and bizarre. Everything, fucking everything, had to go through the wife. Even when it involved external parties, like me, his boss.

When I was ill, but before I became really, really ill, I had this tendency to share everything with my wife... my fears, my pains, my breakdowns, all of it... oversharing everything, like you, along the way.

The fucking damage that did. Good god. Who knows if I'll ever undue that damage.

With that said I understand your potential conflict. Perhaps you are being guided to share and communicate and go way fucking overboard by your church and perhaps your church and your god trump everything. There are no easy answers for that quandary.

But I can tell you that sharing everything and treating your wife as, well, an extension of yourself, is fucking awful and will not help your cause.

Understand that you may be climbing two mountains: one being you and the other being the church and the potential manner in which it has brainwashed your wife into believing that sex is all sorts of bad things.

Based on her bossiness and your supplication it sounds like she - likely via the church - has an absolute expectation that you will share and communicate everything. I imagine you're not interested in being excommunicated and losing everyone in your life over this, right? Perhaps, then, given the likelihood that you aren't simply going to stop sharing - which is 100% my recommendation - your next move is to speak with an elder in the church and get some direction from them?

Maybe you can find a church elder who is not himself a blue pilled pussy. Someone who will not under any circumstances drag your bitchy wife into the exchange to simply make things even more difficult.

I suppose the point of my response is to bring attention to the external factor - your church - that may require some innovative strategies on your part.

The dude who worked for me was clearly good with his role as pussy so for him there was no such conflict.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You know I really like your point about climbing 2 mountains. I think many of us think this is essential to get to our desired threshold. What I am finding is that the gains in one can transfer to the other.

So, as we master self, for example, the gains transfer to work. There may be something in this that encourages quicker progress. It may also act as a foil against going Rambo. But that’s speculative.

[–]alphasixfour0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I too find that behavior repulsive and in no way congruent with Mormon teachings. Super beta using his religion to justify him being a pussy.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, your coworker sounds off the wall even to me.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm really not worried about the church. I've kept my promises and I'm in good standing. She tries to bring up church stuff and I say I agree, and I do agree with all the doctrine. It's the BP encouraging culture of the church that's problematic and the huge focus on youth avoiding premarital sex and putting women on a pedestal that gets everyone in very BP mindsets.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I have nothing to add that hasn’t already been said regarding Red Pill, BUT.

You all need to set up some counseling with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. Start listening to her podcasts. Take her online class and then lay out the cash and do some sessions. Because she is a women and active Mormon - she has unique insights that will help here. Also the credentials and experience - PhD and many years/thousands of couples.

She specializes in Mormons and it really good. She has some “red pill” in her and her philosophy is similar to Dr David Snarch.

Keep doing your stuff, but this could help “crack” the harpy wife and let her look inward.

Also - you could probably benefit from consulting with /u/Redpillcoach because apparently you just aren’t getting it. (I can’t believe you gave her your journal!)

EDIT: i just started reading your post history and you are familiar with Fife. I’d lay down the cash and talk to her in real life.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

We've listened to all Dr Fife's podcasts (separately). I bought all the courses when my wife requested them. Working through the strengthening relationships course and there's some great stuff. Got a few classes in and my wife refused to do any more because she thought the stuff we were learning was making me more antagonistic and by their fruits ye shall know them. She sent a litter to Dr. Fife who sympathized with her position, but asked her to ask a single simple question. I'll look into talking to Dr. Fife.

Yeah, I've overshared but I'm pulling more back every day. Turned off GPS tracking on my phone yesterday.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Try to connect with Fife in real life - maybe just you at first. I know it’s kind of expensive, but way cheaper than a divorce. (Both financially and mentally - especially if you have kids)

Unfortunately- her best stuff is her Women’s “Art of Desire” - so your wife would have to somehow take the initiative to watch it. If she is putting up roadblocks, that’s hard.

If you could get your wife to go to a 2-day live or 3 day women’s retreat, it could go a long way toward her opening her eyes that she has some blame here too.

Fife is WAY better in real life and she acts as an independent third party that confirms that you aren’t crazy.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I agree, Fife would be great and someone my wife would listen to. It sets up a covert contract though if I ask her to do a session with Fife, then I expect her to listen to Fife and change and stop being so controlling and open up sexually. Yes, I want that, but I can't control what my wife does. I can only control me, and I know what I need to do. I need to up my filter, stop being scared of her judgment, learn to STFU without being autistic, and be my own validation.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are right. Basic red pill theory is good - continue it, BUT also be wise and strategic. You (and me and others) have a bit of a unique problem when you throw the conservative, repressed Mormon wife into the mix too. It’s MRP on nightmare difficulty.

Expect nothing from a conversation with Fife, but I’d say you have a high chance it would bring a positive message to your wife from a third party and hit her from another angle that she needs to improve too. Expect the worst but hope for the best. A combination of Redpill principles and Fife was a powerful combination that has improved our marriage.

There is a psychological issue that your wife has and all the leading in the world from you sometimes can’t crack the well established mental walls that the church has put around your wife. Thinking of ways to breaking into her brain/frame is good.

Keep up hope brother. Remember the LDS definition of hope. “Hope is not knowledge, but rather the abiding trust that the Lord will fulfill His promise to us. It is believing and expecting that our prayers will be answered. It is manifest in confidence, optimism, enthusiasm, and patient perseverance.” (I’m literally writing this during Elders quorum)

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, going in with no expectations is the only way, otherwise it's a covert contract. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

[–]Greyhawke69690 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I am an active LDS male who lives in Utah. I am also a very good divorce attorney. The stuff your spouse is doing has little or nothing to do with the Mormon church and I fear you are putting yourself in a horrible position vis a vis a potential divorce.

I monitor this sub for the comments and the answers to questions and I certainly am not here looking for clients. Nonetheless, I fear you are at great risk.

PM me if you want referrals to competent attorneys.

[–]becoming_alpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're right, it's not about the church. She's got issues well outside the church's doctrines. She just got a book delivered today called living and loving after betrayal. I've laid out the worst stuff I've done in the post and I don't see where the betrayal is.

I'm not in Utah, but PM me if you have contacts out of state.

Would you mind pointing out the biggest red flags you saw in her behavior that caused you enough concern to reach out to me? I think I'm at the point I need to start mitigating risks.

[–]RustyBrittlebush-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

you really believe all that shit about Joseph Smith?? seriously?? grow up man.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Dude, as an ex Mormon, this isn't the place to attack religion.

Fuck off with that.

[–]RustyBrittlebush-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

part of red pill is accepting reality.

[–]redesquire1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The same could be said about all organized religion. MRP is amoral.



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