CMV: Many RP truths are merely solipsism.

PostNationalism · 2017-12-09T12:56:34+00:00

Does TRP even know any women or are they just basing their ideas how women think on how they themselves would?

Their ideas perfectly fit party girls, especially the more BPD ones. I don't consider myself RP, but for a certain subset of women their ideas are spot-on, I have to admit.

I've never seen women react negatively to men using concealer. They usually appreciate that he's well groomed.

IDK, many women do seem to be opposed to men who "put in too much effort", but it's very divisive: for every woman who thinks putting effort in your hairstyle or drinking protein shakes is pathetic there's another woman who's just happy you look good.

And again, heavily using filters is mostly a party girl thing and not something that is really going to trick most guys into thinking a fat girl is hot the way RPers make it out to be.

Another example would be crying men. According to TRP women hate men who have feelings, but according to studies it's men, but not women, who have a double standard in regards to crying.

I'd say both have a double standard: your girlfriend won't leave you for crying if your grandma just died, but there are definitely times when women will (even if it's subconsciously) find men weak for crying where they wouldn't think that of a woman.

Even the OkCupid study, which is often used to show how horrible women standards are, has shown that it's men who care more about looks and who have more agreement on who's attractive.

Actually it, and studies like it, don't show that at all (though some articles leave out crucial information to make it look like that). Women really do have higher standards when all they have to go on is pictures and there's a lot of men to choose from. RP makes the mistake of assuming this still holds when women have more to go on than just pictures and the number of men to choose from is smaller (aka. meatspace). In real life young women care just as much about appearance as young men, there are plenty of studies that show this, they don't care more though, that's where RP is wrong. But this mistaken trope that women care LESS about appearance (mostly the face) than men really needs to die, it's simply not true and for every anecdote of a man using humor/personality/interests, etc... to punch above his weight I can give an anecdote of a woman doing the same thing. This may sound harsh but women who complain about men being only interested in looks really need to work on their own conversation skills and expand their interests.

RP isn't sollipsism, it's men who are stuck in the phase of being the 16-year old nerd who lusts after the hot, entitled 16-year old cheerleader he's never spoken too and then extrapolating her behavior to all women of all ages.

[deleted] · 2017-12-09T13:33:25+00:00

If red pillers thought women acted like men they wouldn't be worried at all.

The problem is the very selective way they look at women's behaviour and how they always interpret every scenario involving a woman in the absolute worst way. If they afforded women the same complexity as they know they have themselves they wouldn't be so scared and insecure.

Electra_Cute · 2017-12-09T12:58:25+00:00

You as an individual seem to completely detest The Red Pill, not for the reasons you are listing right now, but there is most likely a deeper reason for your gripe with The Red Pill, and it is probably more of a personal problems than a Red Pill problem. There is a lot of assumptions made in your view, and there is also a lot of just selectively seeing everything you need to see to already to feed into your own preconceived idea of The Red Pill.

What people think they do is look at an entire set of specific facts, anecdotes, text or in this case reading a subreddit, but what the situation really is that people do not look at entire sets of facts, or the entire scope a picture, what people are really looking at a specific set of data and that data that is noticed is sieved through their own bias worldview. The likely-hood you believed all of this before you even read it is extremely high, nothing a user on here could type could actually change your view and even challenge it based on what you presented for the simple reason that everything you wrote has to be true, there is no nuance in the situation, it has to be this way because then your initial supposition of The Red Pill is incorrect. You will simply notice what you need to notice to make the supposition as correct as possible.

Do users say statements or hold beliefs similar to the ones you put in your post on r/TheRedPill?

Yes

Do users say extremely malicious and awful statements about individuals on r/TheBluePill?

Yes

Do users take similar actions on r/PurplePillDebate?

Yes

If one directs enough of their effort at looking for certain types of information, they will most likely find that information, if you believe everyone on r/PurplePillDebate is hostile, then you see the hostility, if you believe r/TheBluePill is just "satire" and for fun, then that is what you will see. Now it is not that a person is not seeing everything else that is going on around them, it is just that when they do see it they do not place such a huge emphasis on it, so it is arbitrarily hand-waved off or does not take a significant level of focus. People are going to look for what is salubrious to their already formed views.

An example I can give you is that I have really low self-esteem and I believe that I do not deserve to be happy or that I should like myself. I will look for everything that I do not like about myself and hyper-focus on just those parts to justify my view of myself, outright ignoring any information that proves otherwise or downplaying anything that would prove otherwise. My initial view of myself is already there, it has no rational basis at all if objectively laid out, so it is a fairly irrational assessment.

For some people, the focus is so shifted on just how negative The Red Pill or r/TheRedPill is, that it is almost impossible for those people to see anything different for this reason. Remember, Red Pill users see the world different than you do, they just have a different focal point, just as you have a different focal point of what you are seeing. To you, Red Pill users are "insecure teenage edgelords", this view was already presumed, so now you are doing exactly what I described, looking for everything to prove that they are "insecure teenage edgelords". Tomorrow you could have another view that they are "neckbeard weirdos" or maybe the males on r/marriedredpill are "gross old men", then you will look for everything that you possible can to make sure that those views are true, everything that can possible justify them

CMV: Many RP truths are merely solipsism.

That is the title of your post, so what you evidently did was just what I described, you looked for every piece of information that you possibly could have to support the viewpoint that "many RP truths are merely solipsism", and you could have just changed the title to anything, you would have been able to cherry pick out any of the relevant information you need for the view.

Maybe you could ask yourself why you do not like The Red Pill, I mean actually ask yourself why you feel the need to write this post, why you feel the need to have these views, why you even think this way, why this even matters to you to the point that you detest The Red Pill well-nigh to ad nauseum-- But that would involve some level of honest introspection, which can be extraordinarily terrifying, so I would not hold you to that.

Not everyone views the world the same way you do, or sees the same information that you do, or has had the same life experience as you have had, and those people are also not terrible for having a worldview that you do not quite agree with. I am interested in what your response is going to be, thank you for reading.

selective-autism · 2017-12-09T14:40:02+00:00

Does TRP even know any women or are they just basing their ideas how women think on how they themselves would? The more TRP I read the more it seems to be the latter

Putting your snark aside, I think you know that some terpers are indeed familiar with women, and some of their observations do have merit. I agree with you that AWALT is bullshit, but if you believe NAWALT, then you also have to accept that some women are like that. It's just as ludicrous to believe that women are incapable of terrible, selfish behavior, or to believe that people aren't treated differently based on their sex, and that this is probably not going away any time soon.

There's plenty of unnecessary hyperbole to dig through, but it's not as if they don't make a point about the worst extremes of female behavior that are possible.

In order for these debates to go anywhere, you have to be charitable to the most reasonable members of the opposite side and try to avoid mischaracterizing them according to the most unsavory elements present. I think this sub does a decent job with this: for example, the universal contempt for incels. Incels are repetitive, attention-hungry whiners who repeatedly confirm that they are not interested in debate and not worth engaging with. So we don't. But not all red pillers are insecure incels; many of them here appear to be articulate, successful men and women, and it is a disservice to them to make a blanket statement about all their views being solipsism. A lot of their ideas are worth engaging in debate, obviously, as the liveliness of this sub attests.

caesarfecit · 2017-12-09T21:09:18+00:00

Another day, another blooper shitpost.

Are there things to criticize about RP's understanding of women? Sure. It's almost a truism on PPD.

But these criticisms are largely quibbles, sniping at the sidelines of RP thought rather than diving into the core issues and ideas. Nor do these points really support the title.

Trying to argue that women as a whole really do have no problem with men crying or wearing makeup? That strikes me as an argument so solipsistic it could rank up there with any nonsense that TRP edgelords churn out. Nearly every man out there has some experience with women that showed them quite clearly how male vulnerability can potentially be a deal-breaking turnoff.

RP bases their understanding of women on they think women respond to. That may lead to many faulty conclusions about female nature but calling it solipsistic is fundamentally off-base.

tl;dr: OP is projecting by thinking her views are common to all or even most women, more or less because she says so (that is solipsism btw), and ironically in doing so, repeats RP's core logical fault - the idea that female personality and nature is somehow homogenous.

statsfodder · 2017-12-09T22:38:20+00:00

TL;DR "I have a fixed opinion about TRP and men that aren't into feminism, this is a very biased view and i have cherry picked some threads to prove it. I spend time searching for stuff that offends me and further proves my bias."

Typical Bloop shitpost - nothing to see here.

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wekacuck · 2017-12-09T14:51:49+00:00

Filters, concealer, emotional displays, women's attraction to "hot".

I mean of all the things TRP to zero in on that seems... super tangential and fairly petty to be calling out in terms of solipsism.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-12-09T15:40:37+00:00

Idk, if the red pill is Solipsism, its rather shitty Solipsism. Solipsism is a position back with a rather hard philosophical standard, but most red pillers will gladly just accept anecdote, bias, word of mouth, and 'common sense,' as truth.

42-AX · 2017-12-09T18:54:29+00:00

The difference is appreciate =/= attraction. TRP is sexual strategy first. No woman wants to fuck a man who she appreciates more than she is attracted to.

Emotion is weird for a man because the man has to be the emotional base. Relationships (ONS or LTR) don't work when the man is less emotionally stable than the woman. Does the woman have to be weak? No, but the man has to be stronger.

I'll give you this one. Men view women as sex objects while women view men as success objects. Evolutionary psychology.

I disagree on that last part. Women have more differences in what they say versus what they do than men do. I attribute this to the pussy pass. And incels, while more likely to agree with RP over BP ideas, would rather submit to the incel ideas of not approaching women, not building confidence, not lifting. Basically getting nothing done then complaining about it. TRP isn't that.

misunderstood_9gager · 2017-12-09T12:13:36+00:00

Honestly, how I see it, is that if we are talking about someone who accepts TRP ideals as truths, comes from various backgrounds.

Basement dwellers or Incels - Essentially, guys who have never really had that many female interractions, who go for the studies you just mentioned. Luckily, a lot of these people go to r/ForeverAlone instead, although still toxic in parts, not nearly as toxic as TRP.

Guys just growing up - A lot of guys I know think that women are like TRP explains, however they grow out of it.

Guys being surrounded by girls who are like TRP explains - If these are women you are surrounded by, I can completely understand that one would think they are telling the truth.

Le Nice Guy - "GirLS ONly gO FOr CHadS, WHy caNt I Get A sUper MODel wHo IS a GAMer GURl" Pretty self explanatory.

All in all, some RPers are like that because what you said in the text, but some RPers are like that for other reasons.

cholomite · 2017-12-09T15:37:50+00:00

I cried once at the beginning of my decade long relationship with my girl and she still brings it up as a point of weakness and makes fun of me a out it.

I also know for a fact that if she ever caught me in make up, she would laugh my ass out of our house and probably leave me, or at the very least ridicule the shit out of me for it.

I think the OK cupid study shows that men have a wider range for what the consider "hot" than women. 10 women in a room will usually all want to fuck the same 1 or 2 guys, but 10 guys will probably hook up with 8 or 9 of the women in the room.

I don't know where you're getting your facts from, but literally everything I have seen in the observable world around me says the opposite.

SilvertownBlues · 2017-12-09T11:58:24+00:00

It doesn't matter. Trp is a guide for men to better themselves, avoid certain kinds of women and get laid. And for most of them it works

crackrocksteady7 · 2017-12-09T14:14:54+00:00

According to TRP women hate men who have feelings

yeah I've been cheated on weeks after telling my LTR about my depression and she "accepted" me im gonna stick with my guns here

drok007 · 2017-12-09T16:57:09+00:00

According to TRP women hate men who have feelings, but according to studies it's men, but not women, who have a double standard in regards to crying. It's men who react negatively to crying men.

I wonder if it's possible the studies are wrong here!

(which would also explain why incels are much more likely to agree with RP truths than naturals)

Plenty of naturals agree with RP truths

theflappiestflapper · 2017-12-09T17:05:36+00:00

TRPers don't base their ideas how women think and act on how women actually think and act

You're partially right, you're also partially wrong. The core of the philosophy is to not give a fuck about what others, especially of the opposite sex, think of you. So yea there might not be a fully accurate picture of how women will think (which assuming such might actually be sexist right? Because all women are different and you can't boil it down to "women like" or "women don't like"...), but that's not the point. The point is to tell guys to stop worrying about it. Too many guys think about how others will view them too much, instead you should focus on what's in front of you and people, not just women, will actually be attracted to you, both sexually and personally.

Transmigratory · 2017-12-09T18:37:18+00:00

You can say that, but if several men and other sources find the same thing...

blackedoutfast · 2017-12-09T22:24:52+00:00

cherry picking fallacy and confirmation bias. you're simply picking and choosing things that support your position while ignoring all the other content that contradicts it. the examples you cite don't say anything conclusive about TRP. instead, they merely reflect your own personal biases.

r\TRP has 200k+ subscribers and a lot of activity. moderation focuses mostly on eliminating shitposts by women and bluepill concern trolling. the mods are pretty hands-off about everything else.

there are a lot of random losers posting dumb shit there, and a lot other random losers upvoting the dumb shit. there are a lot of guys in the anger phase venting about women, and other anger phase upvoting it. and since the incel sub was banned, there has been a noticeable increase in the amount of retarded incel BS.

all of this is a well known issue, and is one of the reasons the sidebar is emphasized. the sidebar content has at least been endorced by some of the mods and ECs.

the rest of your post is simply creating strawmen. you make several "TRP says ____" statements and imply they are important and official TRP dogma but it's really just stuff you're pulling out of your ass. and then you try to use these strawman statements as evidence to support your assertion.

drok007 · 2017-12-10T03:50:40+00:00

I agree, I’m just saying TRP is a symptom and dolts like OP are ironically doing the same thing terpers do.

AstuteBlackMan · 2017-12-10T06:08:00+00:00

Lmao. The funny thing isn't the makeup. It's the fact that a woman will judge a man for wearing a wig/toupee or for being bald but don't realize they use fake things as well.

The double standard in society is relevant and if you can't see it and how it effects men then that's on you

slothsenpai · 2017-12-10T16:35:28+00:00

It's true that women don't care about appearance as much but when they do have a much higher standard on appearance! As in if you're gonna attract a girl just based on appearance alone, you're gonna have to be built like a fucking greek statue. If you're average in appearance, you're gonna have to be the funniest, most socially charismatic person in the room.

newName543456 · 2017-12-11T07:37:56+00:00

TRP is basing their ideas on life experience and observation.

Title	CMV: Many RP truths are merely solipsism.
Author	BiggerDthanYou
Upvotes	22
Comments	145
Date	December 9, 2017 10:42 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7im4jo/cmv_many_rp_truths_are_merely_solipsism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-many-rp-truths-are-merely-solipsism.264551 https://theredarchive.com/post/264551

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