How do you believe unattractive men should find happiness and fulfillment?

[deleted] · 2016-12-01T13:09:59+00:00

Ugly/unattractive men can still get into relationships, but they got to keep in mind that things like casual sex or very attractive women are going to be much more difficult to pull.

You can only focus on things you can change, which are weight, clothing, appearance in general and especially social skills. Said this, linking happiness and fulfillment to women is dangerous, due to the volatility of the dating life and relationships.

kieran9323 · 2016-12-01T16:41:13+00:00

The majority of these men are too fucking LAZY to do the work to improve themselves and up their SMV, to become what used to be called "a catch".

Get a good education so you can have a grown up job that pays real money.
Lose the weight.
Exercise regularly so you have a fit physique.
Up your social skills and lose the teenage awkwardness.

Do those things and you will be in the game. But it's much easier to bitch about how terrible Feminism and SJW's are on the internet as opposed to knuckling down to do the work to improve yourself.

Falkner1992 · 2016-12-01T17:15:22+00:00

They can't. I'll be very blunt, life sucks for men at the bottom, always has. Difference is in the past, men at the bottom seldom lived past their 20s.

To achieve anything remotely resembling happiness as a man, you need a mate. There's just no way around that fact. And if you can't find one, you're in for a miserable fucking ride.

I swear, if I was in charge, I'd institute a series of mandatory genetic fitness tests for any couples wanting to have children. If they didn't pass, they'd only be allowed to have girls.

monster_strapon · 2016-12-01T13:08:12+00:00

Focus on hobbies, career, and finding a good group of guy friends.

DashneDK2 · 2016-12-01T13:10:48+00:00

I've seen exceptionally ugly men have relationships. Why is that? Are they all outliers. btw. this ugly guy has fucked more girls than everybody in here together.

Willow-girl · 2016-12-01T14:10:51+00:00

There's a lid for every pot. Men can, of course, help their case by striving to be the best they can under their unique circumstances. For instance, most people can manage "clean and well-groomed" -- that's pretty basic. Having ambition (however modest), setting goals and working toward them -- these things are very attractive and again almost anyone can do them. Get busy!

Anarchkitty · 2016-12-01T14:28:23+00:00

The best way is to join a cult or following where you will get rewarded in the afterlife for exerting effort and courage in this life, something like radical Islam.

goatismycopilot · 2016-12-01T15:24:51+00:00

Whenever somebody posts something like this and the suggestions roll in either the OP of one of the commenters rolls out a long laundry list of why they cannot engage in the suggested things. Or, somebody else will pipe in and say chix don't find 99.99999999% of men attractive anyway.

If you are looking for something more in life, look within. Try a mediation or mindfulness practice. Will it get you women. No. What it might get you is a time and space to get to know yourself, confront yourself, and see things differently. Note I said might, I am not an expert. Wanting validation from others in the form of sex, affection, and relationships is pretty normal basic human stuff. A few people do not "need" others the rest of us vary in how much we need that validation because despite AWALT and AMWALT we are still individuals with an individual perspective. But when validation from others becomes the prime directive and the central focus the reality is you will always be disappointed. People are fickle, they change their minds and they have their own shit to deal with so even if they are available and want to provide validation it might not be the validation you want or at the same level so you are always going to be spinning you wheels wondering why if I did "X" how come "Y" did not happen or I did "X" and "Y" happened last time but it did not happen this time. TRP will tell you "meh women are cows/emotional/fill on the blank on shitty woman quality" but many mindfulness or meditation practices will lead you to the folly of completely defining yourself through the validation of others which might actually create some space for it to happen. If you hate your life, figure out why and address the emotional baggage. Nobody wants to date somebody who hates their life, sorry but that is how it is. Or the people who want to date somebody who hates their life, likely also hates their life and it will be a fucked up unhappy relationship. If you can change something physically about yourself, make those changes, if you can change something socially about yourself, make those changes.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-12-01T15:44:28+00:00

They should become more attractive if their happiness would result from finding a partner, otherwise how can anyone answer this question?

[deleted] · 2016-12-01T13:06:32+00:00

delete their facebook accounts. the grass isn't as green as it looks over there.

rulenumber303 · 2016-12-01T14:03:32+00:00

Finding happiness and fulfillment is a deeply personal matter. But there are some things we do know. You'll feel better if you're healthy. You'll feel better if you have friends and meaningful work and economic security.

My recommendation is that if you are deeply unfulfilled and unhappy, then you need to do is attend to your health, friendships, the way by which you make your money, and your budgeting. Then, if you remove barriers you have in your thinking that prevent you taking risks, you will find the extra capacity to feel passionate about something.

Candy_Kittens · 2016-12-01T14:31:46+00:00

Through friendship.

Love is too fickle.

DucksCanDance · 2016-12-01T15:54:27+00:00

Learn game, you can improve your social skills to the point where you're so fun that girls get caught up in the moment and they'll bang, sex really isn't that big of a deal to lots of women

It's more work than its worth long term though, once you've done it for a couple years you'll probably move on to something else. Still it'll be nice knowing you took on the challenge

buartha · 2016-12-01T19:20:40+00:00

My brother is celibate (not incel, voluntarily celibate for reasons that probably aren't mine to say) so a lot of my advice for people in this situation is based on the ways that he copes. Note that this is assuming that the person in question can't improve their situation in some way, which I do believe that most people can.

The most important thing is finding something to dedicate your time to that you feel you can make a genuine contribution to. I think a lot of people struggle to find happiness without having something to strive for beyond themselves since it makes them feel worthless that their influence doesn't extend beyond their own lives. People who go down the relationship/ kids route get the 'easy' solution to this (or at least appear to,) but it's not the only thing you can do to fill that void. My brother does a lot of work for his church, and volunteers at different charities that support causes he cares about. Alternatively, if you're not into that sort of thing, try to find some small way to let your name live on beyond you. Depending on your interests this could be getting involved in research, getting stories published, starting your own business, etc.

I'd also recommend getting a pet, preferably one with a needy personality. This is probably the most cliched advice for lonely people ever, but I've seen how my brother's cat has helped him out of some darker periods, and having something that relies on you gives you a reason to get up and keep going even when you don't want to.

Getting fit and staying active is also important. Even if it's not for aesthetics, fitness has a massive impact on mood, and if you're already feeling down or low being unhealthy will just exacerbate it.

I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but I can't think of anything else. If I think of anything more as the night goes on I'll add it.

HPMOR_fan · 2016-12-01T15:56:21+00:00

I'll give it a shot.

I agree with your opening premise. The summary of my answer is: make yourself more attractive. Throughout this post I'll use "you" to mean an unattractive male. There may not be much you can do to be physically more attractive but there are certainly other ways you can become more attractive. When asked on Reddit, Arnold Schwarzenegger said his main advice to people is to be useful. What that means in terms of relationship is people will want to be around you if you make their lives better. You want women because they make your life better. How can you make theirs better? How you do it depends a lot on you and a lot on them, but there are also general truths to it. Spend more time thinking about how you make others feel than how they make you feel. This can be practiced with friends and family too. Make it a genuine part of your personality and not a trick you do to get laid.

I'd like to make an analogy with martial arts. In a fight it helps to be stronger, faster, and be better at fighting. Learning good skills takes a lot of practice. When practicing, if you are strong enough you can often make something work even if you aren't doing it correctly. But if you are weaker you are forced to learn it correctly or you can't do it at all. So it's common for the weaker person to focus more on the technique. In a fight, being stronger is always an advantage, but if you've learned better technique you can overcome greater strength. Physical attractiveness is like strength. If you have it you can get away with being lazier about other things. If you are not attractive then focus on other aspects.

What you focus on depends on who you are and what goals you have for relationships. In general though, make yourself more mature, healthy, happy, generous, confident, all that good stuff (this is a bit of a chicken and egg problem but do what you can). Even for what people call physical attraction, a big part of it is mental, for both men and women. You can get some insights from TRP but don't accept their view towards women. Try to really understand women, especially healthy, mature women.

Don't be a "nice guy" but don't be an asshole either. My impression of a nice guy is someone who does nice things for women because he thinks has no choice. Either he thinks he has to do what women ask so they will like him, or he thinks it's an exchange for sex. A guy who is truly nice does things because HE wants to. An asshole who sticks up for himself may be more attractive than a doormat (to many women), but a genuinely kind man who won't let himself be taken advantage of is most attractive of all.

If you want relationships and not just sex then don't try to pick women up at bars. I'm not very well read on TRP but I believe they say to fish where the fish are, meaning to act in ways that work on the most common type of available women. I don't think you need to do this. You just need to find a few women who you would be happy with. They are out there. Learn what really makes relationships work. Learn to do those things and to identify those qualities in women. You may "settle" on some attributes like physical attractiveness, but do not settle on things that are important to relationships and happiness. Being single, as much as it can suck, is better than being in a bad relationship. Hire a prostitute if you feel you need some experience. Be honest with her and ask her to teach you stuff. Be liberal with physical contact with friends and family. Things like hugs and putting arm around shoulder when sitting on the couch. Humans have a need for physical contact and sometimes we put that entire burden on a single partner when some (but not all) of that need can be met platonically.

brewmastermonk · 2016-12-01T17:32:13+00:00

Science and political activism

trail22 · 2016-12-02T01:04:27+00:00

Most men will never be happy unless they have friends and a SO.

Having a large social circle including a healthy sex and dating life is necessary for happiness.

Yes you do not want your happiness to be based on a single person, but if you have the ability to make friends and be succesful at dating you will always have options.

For a truly unattractive man, assuming he finds unattrative women also unattractive, he will never be happy unless he has at least the ability to have a healthy dating life.

scottsouth · 2016-12-01T14:35:37+00:00

I believe the biological impulse for sex/romance will always be there for men. We can only distract ourselves from it.

You do this by trying new things. Hiking new trails. Eating new food. Visiting whatever obscure event may be happening in your area.

Suppressing your desires is useless and damaging to your psych. Have your desires, find new desires, and put the unreachable desires on the back burner. By the time death comes knocking, hopefully you've kept yourself busy enough that you only have a minute amount of time to resent your failings.

Good luck.

[deleted] · 2016-12-01T14:53:10+00:00

The grass isn't greener on the other side.

KV-n · 2016-12-01T15:30:00+00:00

there is no way.

[deleted] · 2016-12-01T16:20:04+00:00

I'm almost through the book "NO MORE MR. NICE GUY" and its helping me see how childhood abandonment issues in men and women cause the suppression of the communication of vulnerability and needs, sometimes along with the ability to set boundaries with others. This abandonment in some form from the parent(s) gets projected onto other people, the perception that love is scarce makes it scarcer. So in this mindset, they can't communicate their needs directly, even to themselves in their own head, because they have been trained from childhood to see love, happiness, and fulfillment as commodities.

So I think, even if someone is single for the rest of their life, even if they have tried to some degree, they can be happy if they have unconditional positive self-regard, the capacity to establish boundaries, and communicate vulnerability and needs. They need to identify their needs (not just in sex or romance), see what they wish for in life that they should actually have as a need (as a matter of self-love and self-respect which are synonymous), and work on taking care of their needs. But they also need to be able to have consistent, direct expressions of emotional vulnerability or needs to other people, whether they are sexual or platonic needs; because you need to break the "love is scarce" worldview that childhood and subsequent bad memories have created, even if this is just on a platonic level due to personal standards.

What you are willingly to do for yourself and your needs sets the tone for how much love and happiness you interpret to be available in life. But the grip of a negative past creates fear, and the fear only intensifies if a time ever comes that you can't communicate it and the negative emotions that come along with it.

"If you lift up a donkey's tail and sniff its ass without applying honey first, Elon Musk will stab you to death with a spatula in his Mars bar." -- Dr. Phil

Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.

midnightvulpine · 2016-12-01T17:23:53+00:00

Outside of moderating one's expectations on the relationship front, find other sources of validation. Everyone has things that bring them pleasure. Focus on those for a while. Or seek to improve yourself in whatever ways you feel appropriate.

Siaynoqs · 2016-12-01T17:24:46+00:00

In addition to the other suggestions... meditate. Work on fixing your inner life and your patterns of thought, finding contentment that way. I'll bet that a lot of how you feel is tied to self-limiting ideas and loops that affext your behavior, and your behavior makes it difficult to find a good mate. It's not all about being physically attractive -- it's also about being mentally stable, resolving things from your past, being connected to your emotions. Being a better person.

allfunkedout · 2016-12-01T18:15:41+00:00

Money talks.

procrastinator789 · 2016-12-01T18:24:35+00:00

Adopt. When you have enough time and cash to support a child.

Entropy-7 · 2016-12-01T20:12:55+00:00

Women are a by-product of living well, not a goal or a gift or an icon on a pedestal.

Take one year and a) build your career so you are on track to six figures and b) do some interesting shit just for the fuck of it.

On the latter point, buy an electric guitar and learn 3 chords to play in a punk band; go skydiving; write a screenplay; take salsa dance lessons; go to night school and learn about Byzantium art; join Toastmasters and learn to be a kickass public speaker; climb a mountain.

Once you are in the groove, and even as you are a work in progress, talk to women. Personally, I do online game. I am not the best looking guy - although I don't think I qualify as not "conventionally attractive" - but I design board games, I am ex-military, I am a gourmet chef and a few other things that enough girls consider to be "cool".

Build your cool factor and follow the TRP advice about lifting and having some nice clothes.

[deleted] · 2016-12-01T22:36:11+00:00

[deleted]

darksoldierk · 2016-12-02T02:24:26+00:00

The female equivalent of TRP and MGTOW is feminism, and a very large portion of the population is feminist.

What men who have never been in a relationship or had sex don't realize is that there are a few joys that a man obtains from a relationship with a woman, but he gives up many joys by being with that woman. The idea of "freedom" restricted only by laws is something that is ingrained into the fabric of my being. What men don't realize is, getting into a relationship is giving up a large portion of your freedom. Let me give you an example, I like my secrets. I enjoy having a secret bank account that I put a little bit of money into so that one day, I could buy a custom high end guitar made by a skilled luthier (people who make stringed instruments such as guitars). Or maybe use that money to learn to become a luthier and build it myself. In a relationship, you can't keep that secret. And, in my last relationship, my ex didn't see a custom built guitar as valuable as a wedding, and she treated that money as "fair game" for the wedding. We didn't end up getting married. Another example is that I, personally, enjoy my alone time. I enjoy going out for drives and disconnecting from society. I enjoy driving to the middle of the boonies, pulling over in the middle of nowhere at 3 am, surrounded by complete darkness, lighting up a cigarette or a cigar and just "breathing in the moment" for a few minutes. In a relationship, you can't do that, unless you know you are going to do that because she wants you to tell her. And when you do tell her, she'll often want to come with (I was never sure if she actually wanted to come with or if it was a lack of trust). God forbid I come home at 4 or 5 am without telling her exactly where I was.

The joys that you do get from relationships are mostly physical, but I often feel that even that is restricted. I find myself keeping the kinkiest of things that I want to do with a woman to myself, because I know if we did those things, I run the risk (even if it's small) of being accused of rape or sexual harassment if the relationship falls apart, because after all, you can't prove consent.

There are other joys, companionship is one. Yet the companionship that most women offer can mostly be substituted by owning a dog. Always having someone to do things with is nice, but I have a close group of friends and we are always doing things. In my experience, women just don't understand men. They don't understand the kind of support we need. They think we need what they need, but we don't, and it can get very frustrating when your SO is trying to get you to open up and you just don't want to talk about it. Instead, you want sex to help you forget about it, but she "isn't in the mood". It's sometimes better to just find strangers to have sex with, or even, just jerk off. In that regard, it's also a lot of work being there for her. I remember getting home after 15-16 hour shift during tax time and walking in to my apartment to see my SO who was having a shitty day. It was her turn to prep dinner, but she didn't feel like doing it. So I had to sit there, hungry, mentally exhausted from dealing with fairly complex tax situations, physically drained from a diet of coffee, redbull, and tim hortons (which is the only diet that time allows during tax season) and instead of passing out on the couch with netflix in the background, I had to try to listen to her problem and pay attention to her emotions. At that point, I could barely focus enough to drive my ass home, much less try to figure out the complex maze that is women's emotions.

What I mean to say is, there is nothing in a modern relationship that makes women or relationship the defining factor of happiness for a man. They provide very little in terms of feeling fulfilled or happy. Those kinds of feelings I (personally) get from accomplishing things. I am always trying to accomplish things, always pushing myself, always thinking about my next venture. Sometimes those things are small, like learning stick shift or learning to play a song, other times, those things are big like finding a higher paying/more challenging job or writing a song.

[deleted] · 2016-12-03T02:07:13+00:00

You can work on making yourself rich. Money is a powerful aphrodisiac. Money also holds no bias against ugly people.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2016-12-04T01:17:29+00:00

I mean....you don't need a relationship to be happy. That should enhance your life, but your happiness and fulfillment should come from the self.

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Disaster532385 · 2016-12-01T13:09:40+00:00

They aren't supposed to find happiness and fulfillment. Below average men are being pushed away from the SMP. Soon enough the average men will also be denied access to the SMP, leaving only chads allowed to partake in it.

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Title	How do you believe unattractive men should find happiness and fulfillment?
Author	Ekaj_B
Upvotes	13
Comments	231
Date	December 1, 2016 12:55 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5fwenc/how_do_you_believe_unattractive_men_should_find/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-do-you-believe-unattractive-men-should-find.271553 https://theredarchive.com/post/271553

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