Why is "The Red Pill" wrong?

anacrassis · 2015-04-03T23:11:02+00:00

So, what is wrong with r/theredpill? Should I just be a yes man for the rest of my life?

It's not a choice between total pushover and borderline rapist. You can be assertive and confident and also not be a misogynist.

I think that TRP is right in some of its observations. As a point of reference, racists are right in some of their observations too—it's not that all of the premises used to draw their conclusions are unsound, it's the misleading way those premises are used that's problematic.

For example, a racist might say that certain races are statistically more likely to commit certain types of crimes. This is a true statement, statistically. But a racist will then use that premise to get to the conclusion that some races are inherently worse than others, when in fact a lucid and unbiased analysis will reveal that certain circumstances more reasonably explain the existence of the statistics: for example the fact that some races are disproportionately poor, and that certain crimes are universally more common to poorer areas; and that some races are arrested at a hugely disproportionate rate, which also skews the statistics.

In the same way, TRP misrepresents some of its true premises. Is it true that most women are selective, tend to favor certain characteristics, and tend to try to get the best man they can? Emphatically yes. However, is not the exact same thing true about men? Of course it is. Hypergamy is not a female behavior—it is a human behavior. Indeed, it's not even unique to humans: what do you think birds are doing when they select other birds based on the quality of their mating dance? Animals are programmed to select the most fit mate to ensure maximum fitness for their offspring. This is not some evil thing that only women decide to do on their own.

I'm sorry that you've had such a hard time getting laid. I imagine that's pretty tough. But you have to countenance the fact that it's not the fault of women that you haven't gotten laid, just like it's not the fault of men that evolutionarily unfit women have a hard time getting a man. It's just the way the world is. It's not good. But no one called a hearing on fairness when sitting down to draft the laws of the universe.

saltinado · 2015-04-03T19:21:01+00:00

Aight, OP, here's the deal. Yep, we do like a strong confident guy who cares enough about himself to improve. However, that really need not be carried over into "all women are children, and they're all out to take your money and then divorce you". If TRP were all about self improvement, then we could just roll it into /r/getmotivated and everyone would be happy. But it's not just about self-improvement, it's also about how women are out to get you, and that's really just not true.

[deleted] · 2015-04-03T21:53:36+00:00

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[deleted] · 2015-04-03T18:16:39+00:00

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grandwizardcouncil · 2015-04-04T04:02:06+00:00

Yeahhhh, from your comments it's pretty obvious that you've made up your mind already. No thanks.

I can also tell you that my ideal guy is pretty much the antithesis of TRP, but that's only anecdotal.

PS: If you think a 'distant, minimally caring, dominant' is the BDSM ideal, I suggest actually researching what you talk about. Aftercare, a safeword, and after-scene 'briefings' are all widely touted as incredibly important for a reason. 50 Shades of Grey, which you've been harping on about, is also generally loathed in the community precisely for the absence of consent in their relationship and the inconsideration/lack of caring for his sub that Christian Grey displays.

geniice · 2015-04-03T20:09:16+00:00

The more research you do, the more TheRedPill seems to be a successful sex strategy that is shunned because its politically incorrect.

Any success in obtaining casual sex by the red pill approach (and the older pick up artists approaches that if draws from) is largely due to the shear number of women it has you hit on. Approach enough women and practically anything works. So yeah if casual sex is your thing go spend hours every week trawling bars. Have fun and good luck. You don't need to adopt the red pill philosophy to do that.

Hypergamy sounds ridiculous, until OKCupid notes that 80% of men are related below average by females.

You claimed to be a nerd and yet it appears you didn't read the original okcupid blog post. The interesting datapoint is that if you ignore people's ratings at look at who they actual message both genders follow much the same patturn. Just because men's ratings follow more of a bell curve it doesn't mean that they messaging anyone below an 8.

I'm not frustrated, but it seems that, unless you are strong, successful, and aggressive, women will see you as sexy as a lamp.

Err I know quite a few strong, successful, and aggressive men who have problems with relationships.

Feminism wants to pretend these don't exist.

Which of the several hundred different socio-political philosophies that are covered by that term are you referring to?

So, what is wrong with r/theredpill?

It provides a horrible set of advice in how to treat other people and yourself. You end up hurting a lot of other people and find yourself in a position where you can only form highly disfunctional relationships.

Should I just be a yes man for the rest of my life?

A member of the anti-consumerist culture jamming duo? Can't really help you there.

You really need a clear statement of what your problem is. Want causal sex? Again its a numbers game kid. Want a longer term relationship? Get involved in real world activities that involve members of the opposite gender. Want muscles? Take up ballet.

Wolfsouls · 2015-04-03T18:42:38+00:00

When has feminism given dating advice? Feminism is a political ideology for the empowerment of women. It's not feminism's job to help you get a date.

This stuff has always been common sense, I don't know why young men of this generation are finding it so difficult to grasp. Masculine men have always been the epitome of hottness. The red pill isn't incorrect in a lot of its observations, however many of the opinions regarding the observations are gross, bitter, and misogynistic.

AlmostRedPill · 2015-04-03T23:57:51+00:00

there's a reason why an abusive rapist is the object of desire for literally millions of women across the globe.

Are you seriously implying that being an abusive rapist is a good idea?

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-04-03T20:28:23+00:00

Of course masculinity and confidence are attractive to women. Do people even need the red pill in order to know this ?

UyhAEqbnp · 2015-04-04T05:56:26+00:00

they're both circlejerks from my impression, although I'm not a regular on either.

From what I've seen, TRP-style philosphy seems to obsess over female promiscuity to the point of absurd denigration. For instance, the famed statistic about ~50% of marriage ending in divorce is 1) actually declining and 2) closer to 80% when you limit subjects to college educated couples woh marry after 27. Similarly, female self-report evidence suggests women only list wanting ~6 sexual partners in a lifetime in contrast to male reports which are closer to 20. Women on birth control are actually less attracted to testosterone-induced male features... suggesting sluts would be going for beta providers. Further, it make absolutely no evolutionary sense for women to sleep around when they have to bear the costs of childbirth.

But all of this goes against the grain of TRP's narrative about women (usually blaming feminists) being hypergamous sluts who'll fuck up on the ladder no matter the consequences. And if you bring up problems like this you'll be downvoted out just like the blueballers, so it's not like either of these communities are free of bias. TRP clearly has the relative monopoly on sciece and my impression of TBP is it's a reaction-driven joke on par with gamerghazi, but this means certain bullshit parts of their story can get glossed over. And the bullshit, in my opinion, is treating female sexual drive on par with that of men. There's probably more but I'm not aware of it

YeahThisIsMyAccount · 2015-04-04T15:31:06+00:00

The Red Pill is wrong because it is highly sexist and misogynistic. It treats women like they are things, not people, and it teaches such. No matter what other good helpful points they may have, that is just too horrible for anyone who cares about other people to get past.

CursedLemon · 2015-04-03T18:26:26+00:00

TRP tries to peddle the idea that the only way any human being can be happy is by subscribing only to their most negative, selfish personality traits. Maybe you in particular can only achieve happiness by crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and listening to the lamentation of the women, but as it turns out there's a whole swath of us out there who are pretty content with being thoughtful, cooperative, empathetic creatures.

Oh, that's the other thing about TRP that makes them wrong - they think anecdotal evidence is solid and when someone says, "this doesn't apply to me", they think the person is lying 100% of the time.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2015-04-03T19:37:28+00:00

Feminism doesn't pretend that doesn't exist, it just calls out gender roles as harmful, and men having to be big meatheads while women are petite children are both harmful gender roles.

You completely misunderstand the point of blue pill, which leads me to believe you aren't really thinking this through and are reacting to your frustration with women.

There's no such thing as blue pill, that subreddit exists only to make fun of the red pill subreddit. It's a satire sub, like the onion. So of course it's circle-jerky.

But when there's such a toxic thing like red pill, that people actually take seriously, I think having a sub dedicated to making fun of it is completely justified

[deleted] · 2015-04-03T18:44:56+00:00

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[deleted] · 2015-04-03T18:17:50+00:00

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meehan666 · 2015-04-03T20:28:23+00:00

What is wrong with TRP is that maintaining a sex life for lazy/weak men has gotten even harder, since better competitors have entered the arena. They don't like that. Also, it has gotten harder for women to string men along because men now know their game plan. This is also unacceptable.

DepositePirate · 2015-04-03T22:26:33+00:00

The Red Pill is wrong because it's tournament species behavior. Check out the difference in behavior between tournament and pair-bonding species of primates and tell me in which kind of society you would rather live? Humans have characteristics of both types of species because they've been transitioning to a pair-bonding species for a while now. RPers long for the good old tournament species days where "men were men".

[deleted] · 2015-04-05T18:13:11+00:00

The red pill is wrong because it is principally a belief system that is built upon the reaction to a shattered expectation that was unrealistic from its inception. It continues to be wrong by using misinterpreted popular evo-psyche and bastardized readings of evolutionary biology to posture as more scientific and cerebral than it really is.

Nitzi · 2015-04-03T17:39:45+00:00

How could hypergamy sound ridiculous to you? Would you rather date the 10/10 or the 8/10?

RichardPalma · 2015-04-05T03:24:26+00:00

You can complain all you want, but there's a reason why an abusive rapist is the object of desire for literally millions of women across the globe.

I used to date a woman who was extremely into rape fantasy. We used to do a lot of role play and this was one of her most common scenarios she requested. I was a stranger breaking in and finding her asleep on the couch, forcing her to do many things to and with me. Truthfully, I like it as well, the "please, stop"s and the "no"s being really exciting. But in reality, she didn't really want some stranger to actually violate her. And I don't even like it when a consensual partner isn't fully into it (seriously total turn off to know we aren't both having fun), so knowing a non-consentual partner was experiencing pain from it would be kind of horrific.

My point in a nutshell: fantasy is fantasy and people are just different in reality. It's easy to gloss over actual big needs like "not being in mortal danger" and "morality" when considering a fantasy or acting a role play. Hell, one masochist woman with pulmonary problems I did ruler/subject role play with, in one text scene I sexted that I was kicking her just under the ribs in her one functioning lung specifically because I knew she had pulmonary problems. This was a giant turn on for her in that context but if I did it in reality, I'm pretty sure she would never see me again out of fear I would kill her.

What's really important to know is that people are complicated, are often ambivalent om how they feel about things, and can have a totally different outlook on how they feel in the short term versus the long term. Then they add on a layer of morality and heuristics gained from individual past experience. This might make a person seem contradictory, but we all at least try to remain internally consistent.

[deleted] · 2015-04-03T20:42:49+00:00

If I continue living like this, I doubt I'll have success, and just be mocked as a "nice guy" for even a word of frustration at my situation.

Then get attractive. If you don't like the fact that you suck, then change that. Hit the gym, dress better, dump your friends for better ones, build your confidence. If there's one thing women hate is men who carry themselves like losers.

"Studies have shown that ovulating heterosexual women prefer faces with masculine traits associated with increased exposure to testosterone during key developmental stages, such as a broad forehead, relatively longer lower face, prominent chin and brow, chiseled jaw and defined cheekbones." And they see more feminine men as better mates when looking for fathers.

Women fuck guys whom they deem attractive for a short term relationships and settle down with men they deem attractive for long term. Men do the exact same thing. Stacey cheerleader might have a nice face and rack, but she's a total airhead who'd be a horrible mother.

Should I just be a yes man for the rest of my life?

Do whatever you want. If you don't like being a yes man, then change it, no one is stopping you. If subscribing to a self fulfilling prophecy will make you happy, then go for it.

Title	Why is "The Red Pill" wrong?
Author	AlmostRedPill
Upvotes	16
Comments	231
Date	April 3, 2015 5:01 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/31bt0d/why_is_the_red_pill_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-the-red-pill-wrong.282866 https://theredarchive.com/post/282866

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