Get to average first

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April 17, 2018

I want to at least put this idea out there because I've seen a growing contingent of not even AFCs, more like people who don't even make it to the average guy level. Remember that the average guy as BP as he may be, does get laid. Not as much as they'd probably want but it does happen. If we're honest that's who RP is actually designed to help.

I think the point I am trying to communicate came across well with the recent posts from users here urging people to shut up and lift. I agree with this, but even lifting would require a certain baseline of self-discipline that people may not have. You'd be surprised by the guys I see running around the university these days. Frankly, there are some men here who are sexually frustrated but are not really at the level necessary for the sidebar or RP theory in general to actually help them. As a rule of thumb, if you're not getting laid AT ALL, then you've got bigger problems to worry about. Lifting is what gets you from 50% to 80%, experience and RP gets you past that 80%. But let's talk about that first 50%. Honestly ask yourself:

Are you showering reasonably regularly (once every 3 days is not normal)? Did you attempt to shave or groom your facial hair to look normal? Is your room constantly in a state of dissarray? Can you hold a conversation with strangers that isn't about video games or anime (If you do these things, QUIT)? Do you wear the same clothes every day, and are the clothes of reasonable quality and cleanliness? Do you act like a man does? Do you know how to be a man? Do you surround yourself with people who are a positive influence on your life? Do you have a job or a direction in life? Do you actually try in school, if you are in school? Are you paralyzed by anxiety? Do you grapple with depression? Do you have any legitimate reason to be proud of yourself and what you have accomplished? Do you think you're worthless? Are you worried you won't be able to sexually perform if you had the opportunity? Who are you anyway?

This is by no means an exhaustive list and much of this is based on parts of RP, but really, ask yourself these questions honestly.

If you don't meet a normal baseline for hygiene, appearance, mental health, a good sense of self and masculine identity, and direction in life, then that's really what you should be working on first. By all means don't turn down pussy that comes your way but, please, don't come in here thinking that you're going to reach your sexual goals by reading up on some stuff alone. RP doesn't cover specifics on the first 50% and frankly I think what I've said is as much as needs to be said on this topic.

You're not different. You're not special. Sort out your shit. Respect yourself. Get a therapist, preferably male and older than you (you don't have to be crazy to benefit). Get that first 50% down, get to average. Then lift. Then we can have a conversation about optimizing sexual strategy.

Post Information
Title Get to average first
Author EscapeTheGoat
Upvotes 615
Comments 185
Date 17 April 2018 06:29 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
average frustrated chumpliftthe red pill

[–]WIA20XX360 points361 points  (22 children) | Copy

The average American

Is fat.
Works a job he doesn't like.
Has no money to show for it.
Is in debt.
Cannot dress himself.
Dreams of a better life.
Reads about improving but never improves.
Never talks to girls.
Does not engage with the people in his life.
Is apprehensive around strangers.
Prefers to do harm to himself, than take a chance to make his life better.

But he does take a daily shower you bunch of smelly bastards.

[–]altlegend41 points42 points  (5 children) | Copy

Growing up with post communist polish parents I would spot the smallest imperfection in presentation and hygiene. God forbid I left the house with a wrinkled shirt, even to run to the store.

[–]WIA20XX18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've only heard good things about Polish girls

[–]altlegend20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

You’re telling me lol. Polish girls aren’t inherently easy they are just extremely responsive and don’t act like their shit don’t stink because they are HB 9. In my experience I get the same response from a 7 just as I would from a 10. Only Polish girls though, since I can sweet talk with vodka and pickles ;)

[–]Zenkada 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Once I got side job on one event and the company gave us their t-shirts to wear. They didn't have wrinkles, but they were fold, so you had folding lines visible. Nobody cared about this, but there was one guy, total red-pill alpha, he went home, ironed the t-shirt and put it on hanger, didn't wear it on until the event started. This is when I realized how important the clothes are. Despite we wore the same thing, he looked better (besides that he was also lean and nicely groomed).

[–]altlegend5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s kinda an extreme example, alpha or not it’s pretty elite that that’s what came to his mind

[–]chachaChad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

While it's great that this guy cared enough about his image to put some effort into his clothing you have to remember that guys that are ripped look good in rags. The best shirt in the world won't make up for being a fat slob.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 67 points68 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fine, get to what average SHOULD be.

For example, instead of being fat like most, get to the recommended average of ~20% body fat. From there 12% isn't that far away. It's a hell of a lot easier doing that and becoming exceptional in a sense, than trying to get there from 35% body fat. You'll arguably see a bigger difference in yourself going from 35% to 20% than from 20% to 12%.

This sort of "getting to average" applies to all of the other facets as well, but it really comes down to where you're starting. If you're already better than average in some way then obviously don't slide back to being average. Stay exceptional in whatever facet of life you are.

As another comment stated, you have to learn to walk before you can run.

[–]gaythroway691 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was lurking here out of curiosity and thought id say this; i don't know if this subreddit has any good advice, but this certainly is an exception.

[–]1AuspexAO9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

The mind needs to change before the body can. It's one thing to say "get to average" but "average" from "slovenly" is no different than advancing from "average" to "superior". If a person doesn't have the discipline to accept change, then change will not occur.

The baseline of everything that happens in this forum, in this philosophy, is the WILL TO IMPROVE. Lifting, talking to many, maaany women to get over awkwardness, learning to mingle and stay socially agile. But dressing nice, showering, and even being able to make baseline interactions with fellow humans is where that behavior begins. Let's face it, human nature is like inertia. It's very hard to start rolling that fat, loser boulder but once it starts you'll be more likely to keep it going.

I will agree that shooting for some kind of Chad form should be a long-term goal, not a short-term one. Setting your goals too far away is not only ridiculous, it's also self-sabotaging. When I was losing my weight I'd make sprints to 10 pound drops and then when I got there I'd fight to stay there. I didn't try for a nice body from being a giant fatass. Luckily, I didn't need much help with social skills, but even then it took me a long time to actually approach random women at the store or at a concert.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women don't base their perception of average on statistics though.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Almost all of this was me about a year ago.

At least now I'm no longer fat and my debt has almost been fully repaid.

I wasted way too much money on shitty food and drinks.

[–]redisthetruth82 points83 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good reminders.

Learn how to crawl before trying to walk, and definitely before trying to run.

[–]anabolic9230 points31 points  (52 children) | Copy

I also think that this sub spits the 'just lift' too fast. Yes def a thing to do but not the only important thing, you might want to take care of some things before that.

I got the physical part that it's on my hand: Good gym body, trim daily, shave daily,etc..:

Yet, one of the physical aspects I can't control (balding) has completely taken over the psychological part, I feel cursed because of it.

It doesn't matter that you come here and tell me that you're bald or you friend is and he does well, that it doesn't matter, be confident, lift, some chicks dig it, etc..:

I can see a clear difference, for example, regarding how women look and treat me when I'm wearing a cap.

It seems to me that it doesn't matter being over the top 20% physique if you don't have a solid mental frame.

[–]throwaway-chemist38 points39 points  (38 children) | Copy

Last line is key. Whatever you are - bald, short, white, black, purple - own it. Guarantee women will treat you less shitty if you rock the bald like Mr Clean than if you try meekly to hide it with headware.

[–]anabolic928 points9 points  (37 children) | Copy

Guarantee women will treat you less shitty if you rock the bald like Mr Clean than if you try meekly to hide it with headware.

Bolded words are key.

The issue is when even less shitty isn't enough to be a sexual option.

As a relatively young man, mid 20's, there is nothing to do that can overcome the turn off of balding. Traning, dieting, tanning, growing and grooming a beard, wearing fit clothes.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex16 points17 points  (23 children) | Copy

Yes there is. I am 25 and started losing hair around 21 (at least when i first noticed it). What you do to overcome it is: get jacked and shave your head (a skinny guy with a bald head looks sickly - a jacked guy with a bald head looks like he made a stylistic choice) and get some tats. Make yourself look like an angry viking.

[–]fromthecrypt88 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

Interesting: are tats more likely to get a pussy wet than not?

[–]truedemocracy312 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dont get a tattoo for the reason of improving your pussy odds, for the love of god

[–]1AuspexAO4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Tats are also fantastic cold openers because women can't fucking stop asking about them. Treat the question as if it were an IOI. Do some flexing (accidently, riiight) to show of the tats and if you're lucky they'll show you theirs which is a kino opener without being creepy.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. Studies show women think dudes with tats would make for a good fuck

[–]verytastycheese0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hard YES

[–]anabolic926 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy

No there is not.

  • I shave my head ED.

  • I have lifted for years and I’m on steroids.

  • I tan, because even if I’m not pale naturally, I don’t want to look like I have cancer.

  • I have tattoos already, half sleeve + chest, a few more and almost my full right quad.

It doesn’t fucking work, I can prove all of my points sending you a PM.

[–]1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy

Well, if you believe you are doing everything right, and it still isn't giving you the desired results... why don't you post some questions on the asktrp sub. Seriously.

(this sub is not for questions, and since almost everyone should be able to follow TRP advice, I suggest you start asking what you can change or just do better)

Obviously you are missing something... and guys here can help.

[–]anabolic922 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

Because deeply enough I know the answers, I am just too afraid to execute.

I just think that getting some IOIs would raise my self-esteem and diminish my fears, but even with all the efforts made I don’t get them even from 2HBs

[–]1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

I am just too afraid to execute.

Let me tell you a short story. Two years ago a good friend was diagnosed with cancer and died shortly after. But before he died, as he laid on his death bed, he told me these words... "Don't live with any regrets... do everything you can... now... because you never know when the grim reaper will come knocking!" (He was trickster right to the end.)

He was right. Tomorrow never comes for some people. You only regret the things in life you never do... So i changed my life to not delay and not push off till tomorrow what I can do today. And my life has never been better.

Someday we will all be like my friend. We will all have to look death in the eye... and I will know that I did the best I could, everything I could, and I will be content that I can leave this place knowing that I will have no regrets...

If you know what you need to do... then do it. If you need help... get it. If you don't know how.. then ask. You can change you. Today. Here. And now...

Don't ever be afraid of the future my friend...

I used to live in fear. For like 30+ fucking years I was so afraid of life that I only made decisions based upon the potential consequences... Today I make decisions based upon the potential rewards... not the fear.

If you have the plan... and know what you need to do... then just execute. Press the button, bro. Trust me, it will all be different when you are done. And it will be better, if only because you did it.

Your future life is depending on you... today.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You clearly are afraid of something. If you know what it is work on it or go see a psychologist. If you're deformed try dating blind girls. They'll still love your muscles and are often great conversationalists.

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao that blind girls line made me laugh at least hah

[–]NotMyBestEffort2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How can you see an IOI through that gray haze that you wear by thinking the way you do?

[–]SuperCrazy071 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am just too afraid to execute

Girls smell fear dude. This is your problem, not that you're bald.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If u r jacked, with tats and a bald head, you should have no problems getting laid

[–]no_face0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Location could be an issue. Move to a big city.

[–]truedemocracy32 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really is true. A rail thin guy with hair can be attractive if he has that baby face look some girls are into. A bald guy really cant. But a bald guy and buff (doesnt have to be shredded, but needs muscle) is intimidating as fuck

[–]just_wannabe_happy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Would still look better with hair. Almost everyone does.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Would still look better with hair. Almost everyone does.

True. Guess I'm SOL though.

[–]insanity_wow272 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Anecdotal evidence I know but my buddy is balding and he rocks it. Very successful with women because he takes it in his stride. Don't let it defeat you. In a few years your peers will be balding too.

[–]throwaway-chemist2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

So what? Some dudes are born without legs. Are you gonna give up?

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Not necessarily, but to get my priorities clear. As much as the dude without legs will never to be able to play with his favorite NBA star I might as well save some time and stop thinking of reaching some goals because of my specific conditions.

[–]6273400 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

If you think those very same NBA stars who have no hair aren't pulling ass -- and having zero trouble doing so, you're wrong.

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I meant to compare the guy with no legs , not being bald. Comparing to athletes/actors to the average dude makes no sense

[–]1AuspexAO1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Interesting. How would you describe the way other people think of you? Not family, but friends and associates.

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well I know you said "not family" but anecdotally my mother is telling me to grow it out, even if I'd be obviously thinning which makes me think bald isn't a good look overall.

The two other group of people you mentioned, friends and associates, obviously doesn't care because there is no sexual attraction between us.

[–]1AuspexAO1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I asked about how your friends and associates view you as a person. As far as your hair goes, you shouldn't listen to your mother. It's a mother's job to nuture and protect her children. She's not trying to get you laid, ha ha. When I was 380 pounds of fat nerd, my mom told me I was handsome and would totally find a nice girl who appreciated me for my wit and brains. I was not handsome, I was revolting. I would not have found a girl, because my wits and brains only helped me to hamster all my obvious self-inflicted problems, they were not committed to achieving any kind of greatness. Be good to your mom. Smile and nod. Get that hair off.

The reason I want to know what your friends and associates think of you is that how they treat you and see you in their social hierarchy will help me diagnose what exactly is "wrong" with you. If you're ripped and sporting some nice tats and a cleanly shaved head, you're gonna be fine on the looks front. But if you have a problem with being submissive or cloying in social settings, it won't matter.

[–]truedemocracy31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agree that owning it will get you more respect from women AND men than hiding it. In fact, it even looks damn good - but you need muscle here

[–]Freenorthman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Fly to Turkey get a transplant. Done

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

HT are not a final solution, hair can fall still unless you take some well-known pills that can cause trouble with ED, hormones and scary stuff.

if you get off those you lose your hair again.

[–]Freenorthman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing is for free. Kg you Cant Take it leave it ne get to grips with your bald head. Stop whining bro there is far worse than being bald believe me

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It seems to me that it doesn't matter being over the top 20% physique if you don't have a solid mental frame.

Yes it does.

Having a good physique gets you in the door, period. Without getting in the door, you have no opportunity to perform. No matter how good you are mentally, if you a disqualified from the jump because you have a shitty body, your mental skills mean nothing.

[–]1AuspexAO3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed on the shaving thing. Bald men can look physically imposing, powerful, and aggressive if you market your look right. I have a few late thirties buds who look like they're sixty because they're hanging onto their bullshit strands.

[–]TheDialecticParadox4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

My brother (30) started thinning in his crown and lost his hairline years ago. He constantly wears caps and is obviously very self concious about it.

All I can think about is why give people the opportunity to discover your weakness? If your own brother is judging you for not wanting to show your head what would women think when the cap eventually has to come off?

Just accept it for what it is, or do something about it. To his credit he tried hair loss therapy and had decent success, but it was very expensive. He came off it and lost all his hair again.

People can't damage your frame and your ego if you see your baldness as a strength and not a weakness.

[–]nadolny71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I always try to be vigilant of what I'm worrying about. If I can do something to fix it, then by all means stress over it and try to fix that thing; but if I can't do anything about a certain issue like balding,which is mostly genetic, I try not to worry about since it's out of your control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Shave your head dummy

[–]Sumsar010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting matters because it easier to get people to vare about than stuff like eating better. But make a bro vare about his total and suddenly he fix the rest just to get more prs.

[–]neezebeeze 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

WENT through the same thing. PM me if you want some help on the bald part, been there and it sucks and whatever anyone says, girls are shallow and hair does effect our look regardless of how hard you try and rock it.

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How can you help me?

I pretty much accepted it already, unless you can still help me with that part I appreciate your help but I refuse to use Fin, RU and those products.

[–]LibertyIsNotFree-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Mother fucker quit your bitching, get a loan and get your fucking head fixed. What the fuck is this. This isn't 1980. You got a problem? Fix it.

Unless you're saying your life isn't worth 20K and/or you're incapable of funding 20K for yourself

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

HT are not a final solution, hair can fall still unless you take some well-known pills that can cause trouble with ED, hormones and scary stuff.

if you get off those you lose your hair again.

[–]LibertyIsNotFree0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who said it was a final solution or that you wouldn't need more done 5 or 15 years down the road?

The issue is you can fix it if it's important enough to you.

[–]VinterBot72 points73 points  (0 children) | Copy

Going from 0 to 1 is harder than going from 1 to 10, so when you're at 0, you'll feel like getting to 1 is impossible, but it's not. It's all about habit, discipline and confidence. For someone who lacks the balls to go out and talk to people, or approach that girl, or set up a tinder account weight loss and lifting will help.

As for the specifics of the post, I have to say that I do play video games daily. Mostly because some of my income depends on it (RMT) and because I do programming oriented around them. Scripting, apps related to it, etc. to make money off of it. I do think that at one point I did have a severe problem with video games. I lost a year in high school because I skipped school to go to a cybercafe to play my favorite mmorpg. That was dumb, and it has had an impact in my social life. But it can also be healthy to play videogames or watch anime. The key is moderation and priorities.

[–]rad_dynamic23 points24 points  (7 children) | Copy

Wonderful and something that needed to be said.

Lifting isn't going to do shit if you are a weak person(less than average, like you said). I know plenty of gym bros who are terrible with girls and confidence issues. They get a lot of IOIs, but I'm normally able to outperform them when it comes to game simply because I've worked on myself to get to the 50% mark and then slowly improve.

Also, if you're improving by 1% each day, week month, whatever, you're still improving and gaining an advantage. All you have to do is to be better than AVERAGE to do well, you don't have to be in the 80%+ group to be able to see results.

[–]circlingldn5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

The most important thing is having women surround you...being a incel or chump that barely meets any women...not amount of gym will help

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

How does having women surround you support you life goal? If having women surround you is your main motivation in life, that is insanely pathetic.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you can have a life goal but if you don't get laid, you will burn out very fast.

that is what happened to me. i worked a lot towards my goals and didn't have anymore women then when i wasn't. eventually, i crashed and burned because getting laid consumed my mind.

[–]circlingldn1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Who said its the main motivation...its certanly better than just lifting and not talking to girls at the amount of muscle will beat autism or lack of experience

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

RPers make the fatal mistake of making women essential to their universe. They are a commodity, not a necessity. So you should lift/be in the gym for your health gains and gtfo, not to "talk to girls". There are better places for that.

[–]ch100110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

abundance dude. thems just beautiful bitches, flirt with them all, even the ones you dont fancy

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (7 children) | Copy

Get that first 50% down, get to average. Then lift.

No. Start with lifting. And work on everything else at the same time.

[–]truedemocracy32 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Agree but depends where you are coming from. Thin little incel soy body? Start lifting. Neckbeard lard ass fat fuck? Then your focus should be cardio and weight loss (lift too, but in terms of beginners advice eat less run more)

[–]TheDialecticParadox5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

This is the incorrect way of thinking about it. People tend to have this skewed perception that cardio = fat loss, lifting = gaining muscle. It is 90% diet. Yes you would lose weight faster running and eating less, but you will be miserable and lose quality muscle from being a bigger person. Slow weight loss (lifting/goof diet) is a lot more sustainable

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

how do you do a muscle gain diet? I find it difficult to eat 3000+ QUALITY calories a day and no, dont consider peanut butter quality calories

[–]TheDialecticParadox1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

It doesn't matter what I do. For you all that matters is two things:

  1. Your goals (physique or athletisicm)
  2. Your body (Do you blow up after one slice of pizza?)

  3. Most guys want to do one of two bulks. A slow 'lean' bulk. Or a 'dirty' bulk. I always recommend the former as it is healthier and more sustainable. Yoyoing between fat and 'shredded'simply doesn't work in real life. But you seem pretty switched on so you probably already know this.

  4. This is the part that might surprise you. Throw away that calorie counting shit. That's for bodybuilders (who are on massive amounts of exogenous hormones). If you're eating quality food, it shouldn't matter how much calories you take in. Lots of veggies, nuts, seeds, fruit, grains, etc.

Follow this rule: If you eat until you're satiated and get adequate recovery; you will gain muscle.

Now remember this comment is just for you, i'm ignoring the usual quality calories and protein lecture cause you know that.

There's a lot of bro science out there and hitting some pre-defined number of calories isn't going to make your body magically put on more muscle. Your body puts on muscle very slowly.

So to summarize: Eat quality foods until you are no hungry and get adequate rest and you will gain lean mass.

There's no need to force feed yourself unless you want to get bigger in general for powerlifting or something.

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you define adequate rest? Is that sleep? Taking days off? Switching muscle groups?

[–]TheDialecticParadox0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All of those things are pretty important for recovery man. At least 8 hours of quality sleep. Here's some tips: -Room pitch black - No noise - No blue light 30m-1hr before bed - Eat and drink at a miminum of 1 hr before bed. - Try to set up a strict routine to do all this so your body knows it's getting ready for sleep - No caffeine past midday

Don't underestimate sleep's importance for your health and especially for packing on lean muscle. Gh secretion happens during sleep.

For recovery have at least 1 day a week where you do no TRAINING. This means no hard exercise. You can still go for a leisurely bike ride/walk/run.

If you find your numbers not going up/time's getting slower incorporate another recovery day every 10 or 14 days. This will be your active recovery. A game of football or maybe a long run/stretching session. Or you can just choose to take a day off and reset.

If you go hard enough in your training you will need days off, lest you injure yourself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A proper workout burns more than stupid cardio. As the guy already said, weight loss is about diet. Instead of doing cardio for an hour might as well eat one or two snickers bars less. No difference at all.

[–]neso22543 points44 points  (6 children) | Copy

Sadly i still havent kissed a girl and im 18 (yeah sad i know) i was like that zero hygene showing no love to myself but this year i decided to improve in those basic stuff you mentioned and i hope that i will be a better man then i was before im slowly learning from the red pill great post btw have a nice day

[–]Spartan1590 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

It’s not sad when you have perspective that most people will live miserable lives to never awaken or value themselves while you have a golden opportunity to better yourself at only 18 years of age.

[–]gmangini12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

My friend is about to turn 23 and has yet to kiss a girl. I’m no master around girls either by any stretch of the imagination, but perpetual improvement on oneself is imperative not for kissing girls, but for yourself and the quality of life you want live. Keep it up.

[–]truedemocracy35 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

bro it gets better. My first kiss was drunk with a fat girl Sophomore year of college. A few years later and I am rotating between college cheerleaders, dance team members, athletes, etc.

It's not easy - but it is worth it. Let me know if you want any advice because I literally went known from being 'that friend' who is awful with girls in the group and got quiet whenever talking about sex came around to the guy who has the most success with ladies. IT IS POSSIBLE

[–]neso2250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man i apreciate it how can i contact you for advice except comments cause im pretty new to reddit

[–]fromthecrypt812 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

The point being made in this post is actually a major one. No point in acquiring tools if you’re unable to utilize them.

Also, as a sidenote: get any experience that you are able to get when you are below average. Even if you are able to fuck a NSHB4 (Yes new term: not so hot babe), do it, get the feeling of your dickie hitting vagina walls again (or for the first time).

[–]Snazzy_Serval8 points9 points  (18 children) | Copy

Is it possible to reach average if you're short (under 5'7?)

That's a problem I've been dealing with my whole life. Unfortunately I don't have the step stool called confidence. It basically feels that women can't see me.

[–]old5spice38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is nothing you can do to change your height. If she only wants height she can go fuck a giraffe. Find something you can improve and do that.

[–]xiannnnnn 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

5’6 here.

I own every aspect of my being and I’ve never had an issue getting laid and dating beautiful women.

[–]DidUBringTheStuff0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What does TRP offer someone who has never had issues having sex?

[–]circlingldn3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Shoe lifts and thick soles....if you get called out...say its for calf /foot issues..dont try and hide that you wear them if they are obvious or you cant effectively hide them

[–]Snazzy_Serval1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I actually wear "elevator" shoes every day. They look just like normal shoes. 2-3 inches of extra height, and now I'm 5'8 in them. It's at least some improvement.

[–]ddbsirt 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

No different from push up bras.

[–]Snazzy_Serval1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And makeup

The only time a girl would notice is when I'm barefoot at my place and by then it's too late for her to care.

[–]TheDialecticParadox0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This isn't much different than wearing a toupee.

[–]no_face1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mark Wahlberg is 5'7"

[–]havazm0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm like you. And I've proper frame, but it doesn't count quite as much as it does for taller guys here.( Honestly though I think a shorter frame is more efficient) But I've seen that mental frame can just change everything. Like the bald guy from before, everyone can stand out. Short guys definitely get laid. It's just that it more for personality. And can definitely get above average, meeting this blessed posts arguments!

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

( Honestly though I think a shorter frame is more efficient)

I think so too. We require less food to run and we're also less prone to injury and our body falling apart.

Short guys definitely get laid. It's just that it more for personality.

That really is the key. When a guy is short his personality has to make up for the difference. Lots of men just don't understand that. I'm naturally a soft spoken guy and I don't have the highest confidence, so it's no surprise that I rarely get laid.

[–]havazm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't forget low centre of gravity. Thats how leo Messi kills everyone else

[–]1scissor_me_timbers000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t take this advice of wearing lifts. Just soles that give you 1-1.5 of an inch. The big thing is lifting to have a top 5% physique, and being excellently groomed and dressed. Gotta look like a winner and exude a killer instinct.

[–]NotMyBestEffort0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know two brothers who are each about 5'6" or '5'7". Between them they have nearly a billion dollars of self made wealth. One has a smoking hot 2nd wife... I don't think "short" when I think of these guys.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear2225 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I disagree in that lifting doesn't require anything but a gym membership and a base level desire to improve. If they can't get to the gym to lift, they don't care enough about changing their life for the better. Lifting is the first step imo. Always.

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree that lifting is critical but a lot of guys I've seen in person have such conflicted feelings about masculinity that they never make it there. They complain about the gym being full of "toxic manliness". When I heard that one, I almost died from the sad hilariousness of it all. I guess perhaps what I was trying to communicate is the notion of a getting to the mindset and functioning level of being just another guy. And then working to become more masculine. Just getting that desire to improve is a quite a challenge for some.

Going to the gym itself can come with baggage beyond the obvious. It really shouldn't but people have problems. I get what you're saying though.

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you are a fatass you are better off running/jogging and losing weight. I know burly lifters - that wont help you with women

[–]Casanova-Quinn2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

This is the average American male body. If you're below average, then you need to get your shit together because the average is pathetic. Not being chubby is above average. And if you're above average, keep improving, because you'll eventually look like a Greek God compared to the average guy.

[–]I_BET_UR_MAD0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I have a decent physique but shit facial genetics(weak ass jawline). Is there any way to improve the jawline besides plastic surgery?

[–]Casanova-Quinn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Surgery is the only option for any real improvement. Otherwise you could grow a beard to cover your jawline.

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What's your body fat? Some people are blessed with a jaw and some are cursed. Try getting your body fat % to single digits first if it isnt already

[–]I_BET_UR_MAD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My body fat has never been above 12% lol

[–]PutItAllOnRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Grow a massive beard?

[–]jasperleejr3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy

How would you improve yourself if you were worried about not performing sexually? I, per se, am not too worried as I have made girls orgasm plenty of times (many times before I get a chance to) and I was intrigued on how one would improve this? Is it a mental/physical thing?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

Your question about sexual performance is pretty vague. Since you can make them orgasm, I assume you know how to go down on a girl, finger her, properly foreplay, etc. Therefore, I assume your problems are either premature ejaculation or ED.

If you're worried about premature ejaculation, take kratom (preferred) or a weak opioid like tramadol an hour before sex. You'll go for however long you want.

If it is erectile dysfunction, then 90% of the time it's mental - as I assume you're a healthy 20-40 year old male. However, taking kratom or another intervention will help with ED because you will be at ease, mentally, knowing you can last however long you want. ED also wanes with sexual competence and familiarity with a girl.

If the issue is penis size, there are ways to increase size by 2 inches. The process is long and tedious (between a year or two) but worth it, and I can go into more details on that if needed.

[–]jasperleejr0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

No, I was just wondering how it would be improved. Frankly, I have rarely experienced premature ejaculation (at most 3 times in my last relationship, but it never stopped me performance wise other than that). What's the science behind kratom and premature ejaculation? As someone who frequents the drugs sub, I haven't heard this before.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

how it would be improved

Yea pretty much bigger dick, lasting longer, and DEVI (see Sex God Method) would leave any girl coming back for more.

What's the science behind kratom and premature ejaculation

I've been unable to find any science on the matter so I don't want to butcher it. I've only found anecdotal evidence (and extensive testing myself): take kratom (bout 5g) before sex and you last forever.

I got the idea from the common knowledge that taking opioids (percocets, etc) make you last a while too. I figured kratom would act the same, while being healthier in the long run, and it turned out true.

[–]jasperleejr0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Interesting. Any strain of Kratom?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I use green malaysian, although I'm 95% sure most strains will work the same for this purpose. I chose green malay because of the headiness/speediness as opposed to some other sedative strains.

[–]jasperleejr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What about Bali? Do you get yours from a smoke shop or online?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I get mine online and I haven't tried bali strains. Try it and report back though

[–]re-delle-scorreggie0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Would you expand (heh) on the last point?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Sure thing.

Penis enlargement (PE) is real, however much like lifting, or practicing game, or anything else, there are no magic pills for it or any of that. What PE involves is a bunch of manual stretching of the penis, with different techniques used for increasing the girth and length. It works in much the same manner as working out skeletal muscle. Same same but different.

For length, there are manual stretches - as in literally holding the flacid penis outstretched for 30+ seconds, and there are extension devices that hold the penis in a stretched state for hours at a time (sizegenetics, etc) and doesn't allow it to retract. There are routines for manual stretching, ranging from 10min to hours a day.

In terms of girth, you can do jelqs (again, there are routines) or use a pressure device such as the bathmate to get a vast and quick increase (+1 for bathmate, things the shit). I personally opt for BM and sizegenetics, (one for length one for width) because I can't be fucked taking an hour out of each day to do PE. I let the devices automate that shit for me. The downside there is cost, but they're legit. Shits painless and easy.

Typical gains after 6 months are .5 inches and an inch after a year - depending on consistency and dedication.

Additional resources include any PE forum (notably pegym, matterofsize, or goodlookingloser)

[–]re-delle-scorreggie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Is sizegenetics a discreet device to put on? I live with other people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It can be done but I find it uncomfortable under clothing. If you live with others I'd say do manual stretches as opposed to SG.

[–]1empatheticapathetic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This really bummed me out lol. Made me realise how out of the loop i actually am.

[–]BurnoutRS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

One day in elementary school I grabbed the last blue crayon so I could colour in the oceans/lakes on my map of north america. Another child, with many a landmass left to colour in, threw a tantrum because he wanted to do his oceans too.

If you arent getting laid right now, then its not your turn with the blue crayon. Go colour the provinces and states like a good little boy. Go lift, improve your game, work on your mission, get a good job, get a better job. Otherwise if you stand and whine like a bitch, its your own damn fault

[–]zyqkvx1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

adding to list...

If you started to dress nicer, would your friends take notice and ridicule you?

Do you know haw many calories you eat a day? and how much of them are carbs?

Do you drink 44 ounce sodas with corn syrup/sugar?

Do you wear shirts that can be read?

Do you have large amounts of caffeine past noon?

Do your fingernails, or toenails (wear sandals) look so bad people think you are retarded?

Do you sport the same haircut you had since you were a child?

As you tackle these things you will experience a sense that it's too late, a lost cause, and be disoriented. That's normal. Plow through. Go in to 4-6 hour 'disoriented' sessions plowing through it if you can. You might find yourself driving to a place you just left an hour ago to get some fingernail clippers. Just do it. Rinse and repeat. You might feel gay (you aren't, at least I'm not) buying finger nail clippers, picking better clothes, and googling mens facial hair and looking for facial hair that would work for you. You might have feeling that it's 'unacceptable' to throw away a perfectly good shitty looking shirt. Just do it. Jeans and decent shirts are a good way to make your transition. There's even an art to transitioning clothes, facial hair, haircuts, over weeks and months. So keep doing it.

[–]flowrider001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sports and Martial arts were a massive part of instilling grit in my life. Particuarly fitness for martial arts.

Many people do not know what it feels like to reach a point where they thought they would break, then push through it. Being so tired you don't want to do another pressup, to the point your arms are shaking but pushing for two more.

People hate what they are but are equally afraid of shattering that version of themselves.

[–]Celicni2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Above this the best thing to improve is: You have to actually fucking get out of your house sometimes.

I was pretty good on hygiene and was able to talk to people, but I just never did anything except play video games. That resulted in me having pretty bad luck with chicks, even though I'd rank myself "above average" (basically OCD hygiene, reasonably tall, excellent in school, lifted a little bit, knew to not talk about video games and anime).

[–]tomic8881 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Good post.

The issue I am having is I skip average looking girls (who are still doable though). I look good and I implement the TRP way so a lot of average (and above average) looking girls are interested in me, and even though I may occasionally get on with a 8 or a 9/10, it is not often and therefore I'm having long periods of not getting laid at all.

The reason I skip average looking girls is since I'm at college all those hookups are immediately known to everyone in my social circles and subconsciously I think it diminishes my chances with the hotter girls. Its like other hotter girls will think 'why is he getting on with her when he could get on with someone better looking'. I know, its a retarded situation and mindset.

Is the best solution to just hookup with all those average looking girls?

[–]nebula792838 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well first off, who gives a fuck if other people found out you smashed, it’s not like you’re a woman. And secondly, if you think smashing average chicks diminishes you then idk what to tell you. Get to be a 10 so that 8s constantly fuck you i guess. Or just stay where you are, tell your ego to stfu and fuck average girls... OR.. the best solution would be to do BOTH

[–]tomic888-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Good words. I wouldn't say its an ego thing, I don't personally think smashing average chicks diminishes me. For some reason I thought there is a trade-off between doing average chicks and really hot ones. Its like if I did some average chicks the hot ones would be less inclined to have sex

[–]nebula792830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nah, you wanna open a lot of locks so that you become a valuable key

[–]nebula792830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

lol on a serious note, that may or may not be true. however, i cant imagine an average chick ruining ur rep with hot ones (unless she’s a landwhale... which means she isnt average). If you’re alpha enough, strong social circle, game, confident, the hot ones wont deny you. (The fact that u smash alot makes other girls want you more usually)

[–]Casanova-Quinn0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Go ahead and have sex with the average girls, but don't get into a relationship with them (friends with benefits at most). When you're having sex regularly this will create an abundance mentality, which will help your attitude with the hotter girls.

[–]PutItAllOnRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This. Also let them be your advertisers. You know these hoes gossip so let em brag about you and bitch about not being able to lock you down. This is preselection. If that doesn't work , keep a plate and fish outside your social circle.

[–]ch100110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

pussy is pussy. you will feel better about yourself if you just fuck dem hos

[–]RedwallAllratuRatbar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got my first 40 notches while having almost zero in the first 50%, zero in lifting, but nailed the rp philosophy that came out of my experience, not reading The moment you have 4 plates, you can fake 80% of things you "need" to do

[–]Iwalktheline20060 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post. I would also like to add that our culture kind of portrays life from 0 -60. One day, your a mess the next day, you should be a master PUA. Life does not work like that. Life is a process, you have to plan, work hard, tweak constantly to achieve your goals.

Most importantly, you have to put yourself out there- I think you'll definitely be ahead of 50% just by engaging people and trying to get laid instead of reading the sidebar or sitting at home.

[–]Chaosender690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I needed this.

[–]wholewheatdirtydog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anime is cool but I do agree that everything in moderation is the key to success. Good post 💪

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're not different. You're not special.

Remembering this would solve the vast majority of people's problems in the world.

[–]ManlyB8600 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What do you mean about "don't turn down pussy that comes to you" ? i mean if there's a 3 coming the advice is to smash even if you smashed 8's years before ?

I'm not sure about all of this.. I think it's good advices but all of this won't help getting sex. I never really been broke in my life, always had cool cars to drive, quite in shape (a bit skinny i admit but muscular), always a job, and didn't pound pussy as much as i wanted when i was young because of confidence and fapping too much probably.

Today i'm 30, i lift regularly my physic is getting better and better, no fap no porn since 7 months, i have a good job (will end soon), my own house, and because of travelling for work my social life is not so good, i didn't get laid since my ex girlfriend (6 months, ex girlfriend with hot body and ugly face, i didn't wanted a LTR at first). I can attract girls i would rate 5/10 maximum (not fat at all but the face..) under this rate they're usually "fuck yes" above there's simply nothing or maybe they don't show interest as frankly. Decided to leave game for a while and improve. Even if game is the key, cold approach is very low ROI, bars and clubs for easy preys is the way for guys in the beginning maybe.

I'm stuck at the point where i don't feel no pride in myself at the moment.. and don't know what it is to be a man, a part raise kids, work to bring money home and take car of the loved ones. But i don't want long term relationship anymore, and will probably think to adopt a kid later alone so i guess i'll get stuck for a while.

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This post isn't really targeted at men who have met a certain baseline of function. The fact you've had sex in the past year pretty much takes you out of the equation on this one. The lifting and RP combo is meant for people like you.

[–]ManlyB8600 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'll focus on this then. Thanks for the answer. Good job trying to helps others dudes.

[–]rojevaq40 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If this redditer isn't the greatest ever than my Name isn't Grandpa

[–]Cmdrj-nice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The thing I dont like is that this sub assume that most guys that don't get laid are neckbeard. Am a college student I would consider myself high value. I do very good in school (I have some scholarships). I know how to talk to people. I am active i love playing basketball.I started lifting in high school. The reason why I don't get laid is I don't try at all. Not because am a neckbeard

[–]Ga5zilla[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I get what you're saying, but I saw the message from the previous post 'just start lifting' as a building block to reconnect with your biological masculinity. Lifting will increases your testosterone and balance your other hormones aswell, which will help you answer many of the questions your ask.

Great post, thanks!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Ok, I'll answer your questions.

Are you showering reasonably regularly (once every 3 days is not normal)?

Yes, usually twice a day.

Did you attempt to shave or groom your facial hair to look normal?

Yes. Got complements from people I barely know, including a woman.

Is your room constantly in a state of dissarray?

Yes, it's a mess.

Can you hold a conversation with strangers that isn't about video games or anime (If you do these things, QUIT)?

Yes, but I live around a lot of post-millennials who mumble and look down at the floor when you talk to them.

Do you wear the same clothes every day, and are the clothes of reasonable quality and cleanliness?

I wear the same two pairs of jeans all week (because no money) and a different shirt every day. Some of the shirts are meh, others are quite nice.

Do you act like a man does? Do you know how to be a man?

I try...and no I don't know how.

Do you surround yourself with people who are a positive influence on your life?

I cut off the negative people and now I am alone.

Do you have a job or a direction in life?

A vague direction, yes.

Do you actually try in school, if you are in school?


Are you paralyzed by anxiety? Do you grapple with depression?

Yes, I take Zoloft so I can get out of bed.

Do you have any legitimate reason to be proud of yourself and what you have accomplished?

I think so.

Do you think you're worthless?

Dad told me I was. But I'm going to prove him wrong (he dead).

Are you worried you won't be able to sexually perform if you had the opportunity?

I'm a virgin, so I'm afraid I would act like an obvious virgin.

Who are you anyway?

A late bloomer with a lot of obstacles to overcome.

[–]Swagasauriusfromhrvd0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You still have a lot to learn, but you seem average. Why shower twice also?

[–]nobodyinparticu1ar0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Just a guess waking up, and after the gym? That's what I do.

[–]Swagasauriusfromhrvd1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No man you seem pessimistic, I guess "depressed". You gotta let your problems go, meditate, read and have a more simplistic mindset. I used to be like that things are much easier now.

[–]nobodyinparticu1ar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Huh? Very confused right now. I was talking about taking showers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I work in a kitchen five days a week and work out three days a week. Then I put on my normal clothes and go to college and walk around a lot.

Also, I find them somewhat therapeutic and when I was an adolescent I figured out I could get away from my chatty mother by taking a shower.

[–]purifash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, fuck average. Be better, then better, then best.

[–]NotAllThatDifferent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is the awful truth I have to face. Thanks for the post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I tried to implement TRP without learning the basics like socialising, grooming. Now I got that under control and starting to see internal rewiring through habits.

[–]GoldenTobaggin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Are you showering reasonably regularly (once every 3 days is not normal)? One every 2-3 days desu. Did you attempt to shave or groom your facial hair to look normal? Only if I have an event. Is your room constantly in a state of dissarray? It's badd Can you hold a conversation with strangers that isn't about video games or anime (If you do these things, QUIT)? Yea I can talk about mathematics. Do you wear the same clothes every day, and are the clothes of reasonable quality and cleanliness? Yea same every day. Wore same pair of jeans for like a month, different shirt tho so it's okay desu. Do you act like a man does? Do you know how to be a man? What is a man by your standards? I do mathematics so that is certainly not a woman's game (at least if you are to ask Hardy, but he ded). Do you surround yourself with people who are a positive influence on your life? For the most part. Do you have a job or a direction in life? PhD student Do you actually try in school, if you are in school? No but school ezpz, focus on research. Are you paralyzed by anxiety? Not anymore Do you grapple with depression? Used to p good now Do you have any legitimate reason to be proud of yourself and what you have accomplished? Maybe to someone, but I'm not a self indulgent faggot desu. Do you think you're worthless? To the extent of my contributions to society more or less yes (theoretical math doesn't result in much real happenings esp in my area) Are you worried you won't be able to sexually perform if you had the opportunity? No the few girls I have been with gave me props desu. Who are you anyway? College made me fatt :'(

Did I pass?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As some on who is below average in these departments, this was a very welcome post and necessary and I've saved it. Building that discipline to begin with is key.

The only part I disagree with is "then lift". While I'm not lifting now, I am working out, reading the sidebar, and building a better life for yourself can be a simultaneous process. Just don't expect it to be a magic bullet or work immediately; make yourself better. An year of dedication later you'll be surprised where you are, and two years too, but you need to put in those two years and work on yourself. You can't skip it, mate. You just can't.

Highly recommend seeing a psychologist. The brain may need some work. Your attitudes and moods.

[–]Incel_Executioner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What to do if you can bench 2 plate for sets of 10, shave bidaily and shower daily? I hang out with chad and chadlite guys who get laid regularly. Good general conversations skills, often making conversations with whoever.

Dudes who don't do any of that get laid but women still treat me like a piece of shit on the sidewalk because of my face. Feels like I'm missing something obvious but it's likely just my ugly as fuck fucked up face.

[–]will_berttttt0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Where should i look to improve my style. I wear the same shit everyday(tshirt, jeans, hat).

[–]CC-c1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

Great post. Very very good, thanks man!


Get a therapist, preferably male and older than you

Why? I'm thinking to get a therapist but I'd prefer to go to a female therapist. I don't know why, I'm thinking I'd find myself more comfortable to speak with a woman.

[–]Sin-Silver19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

You need to learn to develop meaningful relationships and communication with other men. A lot of BP’s are programmed to seek the approval of women in all forms, it’s why you probably prefer speaking to a women.

‘No more Mr.Nice Guy’ goes into it in detail, and is worth your read

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This exactly.

[–]CC-c-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I suppose I'd find more comfortable with a women because I'd feel less pressure and less competition speaking with a female than with a man.
You know, speaking with an older guy about my lack of expertise with women could be hard. I don't know, I'll give them a chance

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I mean you're paying them money. Why would that be difficult? It's literally their job to care.

[–]Sin-Silver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I use to feel that way too, but not feeling competitive with other men is an essential part of developing meaningful relationships with other guys.

You need to have positive male role models in your life. These guys need to be older and more successful than you so you can learn from them,

If you feel intimidated by another guy, change your frame and think ‘How can I bond or become more like this guys’, rather than be competitive.

[–]Morphs_13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Last year I went to a psychologist to sort out stuff like depression and some sexual issues. I got paired with a mid-20s female. Talking about sexual stuff and masculinity which a pretty nice chick 10 years younger than me wasn't going to work, AT ALL.

So I requested a different therapist and having studied psychology myself, I knew that wasn't a problem. So I got a male guy a bit older than me and it was so much better. It was more 'guys talk', which was what I needed because frankly, a woman knows shit about masculinity and the male side of sexuality.

[–]Red_Faust4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am... kind of a therapist. Can't say more without risking being doxxed.

I have met few, very few female colleagues of mine that have good insights on the mindset and beliefs of a masculine male mind.

Most men in my niche are beta men too, but at least there are a handful that are masculine and know how to transmit and help you develop it.

Females? Maybe one or two that I've met in my whole life.

[–]1Captain_Save_A_Hoe_3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Biologically women dont like "weak" men. Might not be the best idea.

[–]CC-c0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

what has this to do with a professional psychological support? Just asking..

[–]Wycked_x2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You get better support if someone cares and can sympathize with your struggle.

[–]AlQWEffos2390 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If your not taking 3 showers a day (especially for big guys), not lotion your body, not grooming, using roll on after showers, not washing your ass with water and not cleaning your personal space your definitely losing.

[–]PatsFever0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Fitness question on this topic. So getting into lifting lately, but there’s this yoga studio that is awesome and ~1 min walk from my house while the gym is ~15 minutes. Live in North East so in winter that’s a huge difference. As a result I’ve been doing yoga ~3-4 times a week and cut down on gym to ~2 times. Is this going to have a significant impact on fitness and gains or not that big a deal since still doing something active? Newer to yoga too, but the flexibility and cardio aspect feels great, it’s certainly a different type of workout though. Goal to pass average and get into 20% overall male fitness tier.

[–]NotMyBestEffort1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Let's look at this from a different angle than usual. The likelihood of you going to the next day's workout is important.

So, yoga (with an instructor), 1 minute away or 2 minutes total travel versus Gym (Self directed) 15 minutes away or 30 minutes total travel.

OP does not mention it so I am going to speculate. There are attractive women in your yoga class. Very likely, more women than men. I have been in a 20/1 women/men ratio class. In that class is at least six reasons to return to class.

As far as the workout goes, you are going to gain in proportion to your concentration and effort. In some yoga pulling is a bit neglected. To make up for this add in some bicep curls and upper chest exercise or just add pull-ups.

You can gain mastery of breath, balance and flexibility through yoga.

What is missing here is the element of strength.

Enjoy the yoga. Take all the benefits you can from it. Dedicate the time you save for that extra day of the week and go to the gym and lift some heavy shit.

Do whatever it takes to dedicate yourself to the healthy effort of healthy effort. Enjoy!

[–]Gearski0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

~15 minutes

So...not very far at all? lol

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love Yoga but it doesn't make up for lifting. Just find your balance. I have another 20 classes i need to use up in the next two months because i fucked up my balance.

[–]PaulAJK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

2-3 times a week is all you need as a new lifter to get those sweet newb gains. After 7-9 months you'l benefit from lifting more frequently.

[–]Tenth_100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting topic. Cold hard truth, I like that. Thanks for posting.

So... Let's play, shall we ?

"Are you showering reasonably regularly (once every 3 days is not normal)? Did you attempt to shave or groom your facial hair to look normal? " Shower twice a day (because sports), shaved everyday, hair is trimmed and combed.

"Is your room constantly in a state of dissarray?" Both office and house are 90% clean. With house perfumes.

"Can you hold a conversation with strangers that isn't about video games or anime (If you do these things, QUIT)?" Even if I work with video games technologies, I seldom play video games and it is not my primary topic. Nor pop culture.

"Do you wear the same clothes every day, and are the clothes of reasonable quality and cleanliness?" I change clothes every three days, I have better things to do than laundry but I always try to be clean.

"Do you act like a man does? Do you know how to be a man?" Please defines "To be a man" means for you? I'm someone with responsabilities and who tries to be the best me and the best father possible, so I guess at least I'm not a child anymore.

"Do you surround yourself with people who are a positive influence on your life?" Yes. Toxics are thrown out quickly. Better alone than with negative people.

"Do you have a job or a direction in life?" Yup, build a company to create my dream. Huge goal and I hope I'll die with my hand still clenched around the computer mouse.

"Are you paralyzed by anxiety?" I'm paralyzed because I can't choose a topic to talk about when I don't know the people around. So I prefer to stay quiet until I have the right opportunity.

"Do you grapple with depression?" Fuck no.

"Do you have any legitimate reason to be proud of yourself and what you have accomplished?" People tell me so, as I always look for excellence I'm more focused on the things I could do better next time. I'll be proud later.

"Do you think you're worthless?" I think I could be way better, so much potential still untapped.

"Are you worried you won't be able to sexually perform if you had the opportunity?" Yes. And I'll check that this very Sunday.

"Who are you anyway?" I'm a guy who's 40, a proud father of two, recently divorced, never been lucky with women and often way too stupid to go and talk to more women, who also has a huge dream to make a reality and is working his hardest to do so. I've had only five women in my life, but I'm working on myself to fix that and finally enjoy this part of existence.

Hence, I'm not "average" and should not be here. Too bad, that was interesting. :)

[–]feoen 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Outside of lifting, I am average and I get no results. No girl has ever sent me nudes. I never get any IOIs.

Yet I have my life together. I have my PhD and I make six figures. I own a house and I'm not even 30 yet. I am the perfect beta provider.

But no girls show interest. Don't take the above advice in the OP expecting girls to start showing interest. You can't fix short and ugly, you can only mask it.

Take the OP's advice to better yourself and so people don't have to deal with your smell. Cause seriously, who doesn't shower every day?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Are you actively learning game?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

even lifting would create a certain base of self-discipline most people may not have.

This is total horseshit. To be frank, this post is total horseshit.

These are all limiting beliefs. You’re patting people on the back and saying it’s ok to be average.

Look, any progress is good. You’re correct in that showering and shaving are necessary steps.

But, dude - assume people are better than that and they will be.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have been lifting the past 9 weeks. My strategy was to lift 3 days a week. The intention was to build. The discipline to lift without burning out. I now look forward to lifting everyday. I am trusting in the Process and building the self-discipline. I'm loving the results.

[–]GuruDev1000-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Suggestion: if you're aiming this at the lowest section of men, then you need to make the questions of the third paragraph even clearer. Structure them in such a way that a yes to all questions is good and no is bad. Currently they require a mixture of yes and no to realise one is at least average.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Is your room constantly in a state of dissarray?

Yes. I have better things to do in life than spending everyday getting rid of dust specks.

Can you hold a conversation with strangers that isn't about video games or anime (If you do these things, QUIT)?

Yes. I can talk about anything, though we usually talk about girls.

Do you wear the same clothes every day, and are the clothes of reasonable quality and cleanliness?

I alternate between two shirts everyday because thats all I have. They are nice shirts though.

Do you act like a man does?

That depends. What do you define as "acting like a man"?

Do you know how to be a man?

Again, look at previous question.

Do you surround yourself with people who are a positive influence on your life?

Absolutely, when i can find them.

Do you have a job or a direction in life?

I know what I want in life but have not achieved it yet.

Do you actually try in school, if you are in school?


Are you paralyzed by anxiety?

No. I am not a soyboy.

Do you grapple with depression?

Periodically, but who doesn't. I am a man of extremes, I can reach the heights of ectstasy and pleasure and the blackest despair.

Do you have any legitimate reason to be proud of yourself and what you have accomplished?

Tbh, no. Though people tell me i should be proud of my achievements I do not feel like i achieved anything significant.

Do you think you're worthless?

Sometimes. Especially when met with a string of failures. But I just keep trying to put one foot ahead of the other.

Are you worried you won't be able to sexually perform if you had the opportunity?


Who are you anyway?

A man trying to increase his status and achieve glory in this life or the next.

[–]AceofRains-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I fuck up with the gym a lot. I do have a naturally muscular frame, but at the end of the day I’m still fat. This year I decided to have my barber maintain a skin tight Mohawk every two weeks, get a tatoo and wear more tanks, drop all social media, enter a masculine orientated industry (think cars and trucks) and have a booked schedule of work and school. Among these things, without lifting a single weight, I’ve increased my value exponentially. I get stares in the grocery store like I’m being undressed with the eyes. Adults love the fact that I’m “bad at being a millennial.” My job doesn’t have all the drama that women tend to bring in the work place so I can seriously enjoy what I do because I’m just workin with my hands and tools. The haircut and tatoo was the deal maker though, because now I get hit on way more than not having these things. You don’t need to lift to start looking and feeling good.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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