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Male Privilege

KnyfeGaming

July 17, 2016
1782 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://imgur.com/gallery/w7Vnm
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Post Information
Title Male Privilege
Author

KnyfeGaming

Upvotes 1782
Comments 167
Date July 17, 2016 5:45 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4tao3b/male_privilege/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/male-privilege.945380
https://theredarchive.com/post/945380
Top posts by KnyfeGaming

The Truth about My Generation

101 upvotes
August 3, 2016
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]thatsahotpickle 326 points327 points328 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I guess it makes sense the the mothers get custody more often, I mean looking at these numbers she is way more likely to live

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well when you put it that way lol

[–]chinawinsworlds 59 points60 points61 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think this is actually male privilege, as living is a pain in the ass.

[–]Sgshallow -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dammit. Did not see your post before I wrote mine. .:'( Now I feel unoriginal.

[+]rwwman50 -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is there a story to ur U/N?

[–]conspirized -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate everything about that statistic. I have no doubt that the courts overwhelmingly favor women, my personal experience dictates that in my county it's definitely true and even state law stacks the cards against unmarried men in regards to custody. Still: there's not nearly enough research around that stat to substantiate it.

[–]ISOanexplanation 100 points101 points102 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I hate this graphic because it misspells homicide as homocide. so lame.

[–]Qapiojg 93 points94 points95 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's the stat for death by gays

[+]ISOanexplanation -28 points-27 points-26 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

I thought it was the fag-bashing murder rate.

edit: I can say that without hating homosexuals because I've seen a bath house or two.

[–]OllieWille 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that edit just made it worse

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Have you actually been in one though?

[–]ISOanexplanation -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

yes, I thought I was bi for about a year when I was a kid in the late 70s. an ordinary teenager on the street picked up by older men with money and drugs in Hollywood story. we called it fag-bashing but maybe that was because we were punk rock. different era, less politically correct.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't really answer the question.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The important thing to remember is that he had an onion on his belt because that was the fashion in that day.

[–]Headsock 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Could we have a legible resolution?

There are no sources because we can't fucking read them.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Better infographic: https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

Large numbers, readable, easily readable links (with page/table numbers). It's a couple months old but the original page is here if you want to add constructive criticism: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4jcj3k/making_posters/

I'll be distributing them around my campus when the fall semester starts.

[–]Headsock 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you.

[–]soalone34 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You should include combat deaths and remove undergrad enrollment.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I swear. Each time this image is reposted, it gets shittier and shittier in quality.

Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

[–]epicandrew 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

http://www.xkcd.com/1683/

[–]Flaktrack 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There really is one of these for everything.

Do you guys have a database with metatags or something? Damn.

[–]epicandrew 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually remember every single one from heart.

[–]xkcd_transcriber 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Image

Mobile

Title: Digital Data

Title-text: “If you can read this, congratulations—the archive you’re you're using still knows about the mouseover text”!

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 109 times, representing 0.0920% of referenced xkcds.


xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

[–][deleted] 52 points53 points54 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

What this graph doesn't show is that women are the primary victims of men dying. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The primary victim of a man's death is the man himself.

[–]Ajinho 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's based on this Hillary Clinton quote.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah yes, Hillary Clinton can go fuck herself.

[–]SkeptiCynical 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope this is the highest voted comment today.

[–]e_d_a_m 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We have to assume the parent post is /s.

Or our brains would melt.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

how does that make sense?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That man loses his life, is your life not worth anything to you?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The graph also doesn't show the statistics of men being killed by women. I'm being facetious, and mocking statistics all around; not arguing with your statement.

However, if we are going to use statistics, women are more likely to divorce the man. Isn't that losing a husband? Still being facetious.

[–]AgingAluminiumFoetus 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Typical men, dying more frequently than women in these drastic ways, just to make sure that women make a higher proportion of the population, so that they are oppressed even more!

/s

[–]SuggestiveMaterial -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are only 1% more of the population than men.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't you guise get it? Dying for the betterment of women and society is a privilege.

[–]Trident1000 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

See # of women only colleges vs male only colleges (with the exception of the Jewish only colleges, which are numerous but only 1% of the male population is eligible/Jewish)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_colleges_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_colleges_in_the_United_States

[–]suRubix 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why couldn't you tell me the numbers?

[–]KnowsAboutMath 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

39 and 3, respectively, if wikipedia is to be believed.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

See also the fact that men are a minority in undergrad enrollment: https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

(Women continue to receive affirmative action).

[–]pure4life986 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's almost like genders aren't equal and we should all fix the problems that all genders are facing.

[–]Beltox2pointO 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

For the custody percentages is there any statistics when both parents want custody?

Just because I think it may be skewed as some men may want custody but having to work full time to support their fanily means continuation of that role so they can't feasibly have custody.

[–]Home-Before-Dark 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I actually looked into it a while ago...ill try to find the website, forgive me if I don't follow through.. I'm easily distracted.

But it was something like 80%+ of custody cases are settled out of court with a vast majority being figured out before mediation even begins where both parents sit down and agree to terms for whatever reasons work for their personal lives.

It also brought up the point that in most instances men don't seek custody in the first place which may be indicative of a larger societal problem but you can't really point fingers at a custodial mother when the father never asked for custody in the first place.

In the cases where father's did seek joint or full custody they were granted it in about 70% of cases.

There is definitely room for improvement and as we continue to break down gender walls these numbers will continue to change.. What is certain is sole paternal custody has risen over 300% since the early 80s and that is very good!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But it was something like 80%+ of custody cases are settled out of court with a vast majority being figured out before mediation even begins where both parents sit down and agree to terms for whatever reasons work for their personal lives.

How many of those men didn't fight because they knew they couldn't beat the bias against them?

A default shared parenting law is necessary.

It also brought up the point that in most instances men don't seek custody in the first place which may be indicative of a larger societal problem but you can't really point fingers at a custodial mother when the father never asked for custody in the first place.

Default shared parenting law. If the man doesn't want custody or unfit the court can rebuke it (same with the women).

There is definitely room for improvement

DEFAULT SHARED PARENTING LAW.

Stop perpetuating the narrative that fathers are terrible people (and using that crappy narrative to justify preventing any man from having default equal rights unless proven otherwise).

Feminist organization NOW (National Organization for Women) fights against default shared parenting keeping children from their fathers. http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/oppose_a00330.html

We need to completely rid the family court system of the ability to instantly and unarguably remove the rights of a parent unless proven to be unfit.

[–]e_d_a_m 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I can not voice how right you are.

Seriously. I just tried, and have written, rewritten and rewritten again my response, but it's just too personal and -- even 2 years on -- I don't think I'm actually ready to talk about it yet...

The big problem with the current system is that it incentivises the parties to try to take custody of the children. A parent who comes away with a lion's share of the care of the children,

  • is going to receive large sums of child maintenance from the other,
  • is very likely to be able to keep any house involved (even if it belonged to the other!), and
  • on a most basic level, gets to assert control over the parent (and don't underestimate this as a factor!).

In short, in situations that are often quite bitter, the current system incentivises parents to try to screw the other parent, and also their own kids in the process!

Conversely, even if one parent has had a lesser role in their children's upbringing, it is absolutely right that the default position is for equal shared care.

  • It reflects the fact that both parents are equally responsible for their children.
  • If one parent does not want that responsibility, they can always then negotiate with the other to be able to reduce it in exchange for payment. But, crucially, that makes it the option of a parent as to whether they would rather pay to take a reduced role in their children's lives, which, if anything, incentivises parents to remain a part of their children's lives!
  • Fundamentally, to not default to 50/50 is to make basic presumptions about competency and/or suitability of a parent based on their gender, which, aside from being overtly sexist, is very often going to be wrong. Such presumptions are a bias and, as such, get in the way of determining what is best for the children (or anyone else) in an individual case.
  • It removes any issue of one parent trying to take control (to the detriment of the children).

Obviously, if there are reasons why care should not be equally shared, then they should be taken in to account. But even here, those reasons should have to be established and proven, the same as with any other allegations. As it stands, one parent and their children are penalised without evidence, based on the word of someone who stands to gain from making the allegations and is involved in an (often bitter) dispute involving children and is therefore very possibly acting in self-interest, rather than in the interests of their children.

This shit's so obvious that it boggles my brain that it isn't already in effect. The very fact that it still isn't is a towering monument to exactly how hard-wired human beings are when it comes how our dealings with men and women differ...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I love it when someone comes along and blows my posts out of the water with an incredibly articulated response.

All I want is for fathers to be able to see their children regardless of their financial ability to fight for them or their willingness to fight an uphill battle in a knock down drag out fight in the family court system. A default shared parenting spares everyone a lot of grief including the children.

[–]XeroDream 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It will never happen in the U.S. the states need to have songle.mothwrs collecting child support because they then receive more federal funding. In essence, the states are being paid huge sums of federal money fuck men over through federal grants.

[–]Lechateau 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

The combat death are also not normalized against gender distribution.

The homicides statistic is also laughable because the perpetrators are also mostly men.

Yes defend the cause but not with bullshit data.

[–]killcat 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The gender of the perpetrators is irrelevant, we are talking about who are victims.

[+]Lechateau -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Even when it is same gender crime?

Because you would eliminate the vast majority of the victims if the perpetrators were tackled.

If it is a gender issue it can't be seen in a one way mirror only.

How the hell is that irrelevant?!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"No don't worry! We don't need to help men, they're only killing themselves!"

We should still help the men affected and work to prevent the issue (80% of suicides may be sign of a bigger issue not to mention being a majority of the homeless).

I have a better infographic here: https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

[–]trnajshgfdbxs -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How does any of that say "give kids to men"? It literally says, if you give custody of a child to a man he's more likely to kill himself, die in a workplace accident, have a shit job, be homeless or get shot.

[–]Lechateau -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Where is it said that men should no be helped?!

Only mentioned that it is multifactorial and for the vast majority contained within one gender.

You can downvote all you want, it doesn't make it less true.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Where is it said that men should no be helped?!

You said and I quote:

The homicides statistic is also laughable

You think men being murdered is funny? That's pretty fucked up.

Only mentioned that it is multifactorial and for the vast majority contained within one gender.

Which do you believe gets more media attention: Homicide (Primarily affecting men) or Rape (Primarily affecting women)?

Do you think that if Rape was primarily women raping women (Women raping men\boys is already ignored)that it should\would be ignored?


Relevant facts on how rare rape is:


[1] Attempted Rape is incredibly low for students and non-students in the most vulnerable age group.

"For the period 1995–2013, females ages 18 to 24 not enrolled in a post-secondary school were 1.2 times more likely to experience rape and sexual assault victimization (7.6 per 1,000), compared to students in the same age range (6.1 per 1,000) (table 1)"http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

[1a] The rate of Completed Rapes is even lower: "The rate of completed rape for nonstudents (3.1 per 1,000) was 1.5 times higher than for students (2.0 per 1,000). " http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

[1b] Rape has been decreasing rapidly and of statistics in 2014 rates were as low as 1.1 per 1000 for the general population. (See Table 1) http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf

[–]Lechateau -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude! Ah ah ah ah, ok.

[–]killcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the point is that the victims of violent crime are more likely to be men, this is a problem men face, the fact that they perpetrators are more likely to be men does not reduce this fact. Are you saying men DESERVE to be victims?

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]Lechateau -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by that? Isn't it a choice? Even considered a career opportunity? It comes with a known risk.

[–]Temperfuelmma 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The homicides statistic is also laughable because the perpetrators are also mostly men.

It means that men needs more care and protection not ignored.You think people dying is laughable because the killers happened to be of the same Gender?

Are you fucking retarded?

(This is not a fucking contest dumbass. Congratulations you're the most fucked up person I've seen on the Internet today.)

[–]Lechateau 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, mentioning a statistic is now laughing at homicides.

You guys twist the narrative so much that this movement goes sadly nowhere.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

Sure, I'll take a shot at this. We don't have a draft, so I'm not sure how combat deaths is really relevant. These are people who chose to go to the frontlines as soldiers, and the military is largely still a boy's club so there's not nearly as many women in the military so you should be using a % of men that die while serving and % of women that die while serving.

Homocide victims is a weird one as well. While certainly true, there are other violent crimes that women are more likely to be affected by. Its one of those things where you're just cherry picking

82% of all juvenile victims are female. 90% of adult rape victims are female.

Females ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.

1 out of 6 women have been victims of rape

1 in 71 men have been victims of rape or attempts

Industrial Deaths are very similar to military deaths where women just won't be in the field nearly as much. Its a field that's been a boys club for a long time and a lot of them won't hire women because they feel that they can't get the job done due to strength, work ethic, or whatever.

Suicides is the one that really made me want to talk about this though. That's the statistic for successful suicides. That does not take into account the attempted suicide rate where women have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of attempted suicide. This is due to the methods that men and women typically choose. Men usually use a gun and women usually use pills. With pills they're able to regret it and get help, or have a failed attempt. With a gun, a failed attempt is a lot less likely.

Also I'm not sure I understand this custody chart. Where is joint custody? Or neither? I feel like those are both pretty important to understanding the numbers on it.

[–]flee_market 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We don't have a draft, so I'm not sure how combat deaths is really relevant.

Just because you're not in a combat specialty doesn't mean you're not going to be in combat. Even cooks have to go on convoys occasionally.

[–]Home-Before-Dark 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

On combat deaths it should definitely be noted that women have only been allowed in combat since 2013.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

Where are your citations?

That does not take into account the attempted suicide rate where women have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of attempted suicide.

So a man dying counts as much as a woman who tried unsuccessfully? How many times is an unsuccessful attempt recounted?

This is due to the methods that men and women typically choose. Men usually use a gun and women usually use pills.

Do you think say, women are FAR MORE LIKELY to make a call for help? Do you think men see a system stacked against them (No Men's Center at their campus, no Men's only help lines, practically no Male help to be found!) and simply end it with complete determination?

Also I'm not sure I understand this custody chart. Where is joint custody? Or neither? I feel like those are both pretty important to understanding the numbers on it.

Fact of the matter: It shouldn't be an issue. Default shared parenting with equal parenting time should be the case but Women (primarily Feminists) fought against that.

Feminist organization NOW (National Organization for Women) fights against default shared parenting keeping children from their fathers. http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/oppose_a00330.html

Here's a significantly improved chart from a while back (it is of my own making) with specific links and citations (page numbers, tables, etc.) https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

So a man dying counts as much as a woman who tried unsuccessfully? How many times is an unsuccessful attempt recounted?

Think of it this way. There are 5 men who commit suicide. There are 15 women who attempt suicide, some of which survive because your body can painfully shut down a pill suicide attempt. The fact is, those 15 women were trying to die just as much as the 5 men who did end up committing suicide. Just because they ended up getting help doesn't somehow make the deaths of the men more important than their attempts or vice versa.

As for how many times an unsuccessful attempt is recounted, each attempt is one attempt. You probably don't know this, but if someone is attempting suicide and we know about it to the point that we can document it for statistics, they will be put in a hospital and forced to get help. That's why the death rate is so much lower as well. With men shooting themselves, its a lot harder to get them the help they need.

http://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Do you think say, women are FAR MORE LIKELY to make a call for help? Do you think men see a system stacked against them (No Men's Center at their campus, no Men's only help lines, practically no Male help to be found!) and simply end it with complete determination?

Why would you think women are far more likely to call for help? It seems that more women are attempting suicide than men for sure, so it seems like they feel like they can't call for help. The reason they end up surviving is because almost everyone who attempts suicide regrets it immediately. This is actually something we have evidence of with people who jump off bridges and ended up surviving for whatever reason, or people who take pills. The pills are not an instant death, and its a very painful one, so once that pain or the threat of imminent death start to show up, their problems don't seem so bad anymore.

As to Men's Centers and Men's only help lines, I don't see those as relevant to this. You do realize the national suicide prevention hotline : http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ is for everyone right? You can also call your 24/7 crisis center in your local area at any time.

Fact of the matter: It shouldn't be an issue. Default shared parenting with equal parenting time should be the case but Women (primarily Feminists) fought against that.

Well, I'm not so sure this is the article you want to use to say that feminists are out to get you. This is literally what they say in that link :

The National Organization for Women-New York State, Inc. is in favor of primary caregiver presumption. This means that the parent who assumed primary responsibility for the children during the marriage, either father or mother, should continue to be the custodial parent

And this as well

Fathers Rights groups continue to promote the myth that courts are biased in favor of mothers. In litigated cases, father who sue for custody almost always win. In fact, fathers are often awarded sole custody even when sexual and physical abuse of the children is alleged and substantiated. According to The American Judges Association, 70% of the time the abuser convinces the court to give him custody.

And your chart is literally no different from the one in the OP, just having some citations that are linked under it. Workplace death is going to be much higher for men because a lot of people won't hire women in the jobs that can cause death, such as oil rigs or the military. Undergrad enrollment looks fine to me. Does it need to be 50/50? Because a 56/44 split is pretty even I'd say.

And let's look at your homeless statistic, because its not quite right either and is missing some context.

The US Interagency Council on Homelessness estimates that of the chronically homeless 75% are male. One third of those are veterans. In case you are wondering 97% of the homeless vets are male.

This is because of our extremely poor veteran's care programs and mental health system. And those are currently being reformed, even if it is slow. If we ignore the veterans for a second, you can see that 1/3 of the 75% were the veterans. 1/3 of 75% is 25% which puts it at roughly a 50% men/women split. Its hard to say just how much it would go down from fixing the mental health system, but I'm sure we'll be finding out in the next 10 to 15 years.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

The fact is, those 15 women were trying to die just as much as the 5 men who did end up committing suicide

Prove it. They intentionally choose a non-lethal method, despite knowing how unsuccessful it is.

As for how many times an unsuccessful attempt is recounted, each attempt is one attempt.

Wrong, that's not how statistics work and that's not how the CDC gathers it's statistics. This would require a massive national database to track each and every person who has ever committed suicide (in order to remove double detection) which does not exist.

but if someone is attempting suicide and we know about it to the point that we can document it for statistics, they will be put in a hospital and forced to get help.

I've attempted suicide, they give you a few days in a psych ward and send you on your way. Please do not talk about things you are ignorant of.

Why would you think women are far more likely to call for help? It seems that more women are attempting suicide than men for sure, so it seems like they feel like they can't call for help.

They intentionally choose a non-lethal method, despite knowing how unsuccessful it is.

The reason they end up surviving is because

They intentionally choose a non-lethal method, despite knowing how unsuccessful it is.

Leading causes of Death, females (2013)

1) Heart disease 22.4

2) Cancer 21.5

3) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 6.1

4) Stroke 5.8

5) Alzheimer's disease 4.6

6) Unintentional injuries 3.8

7) Diabetes 2.8

8) Influenza and pneumonia 2.3

9) Kidney disease 1.8

10) Septicemia 1.6

http://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2013/index.htm

Leading causes of Death, males (2013)

1) Heart disease

2) Cancer

3) Unintentional injuries

4) Chronic lower respiratory diseases

5) Stroke

6) Diabetes

7) Suicide

8) Influenza and pneumonia

9) Alzheimer's disease

10) Chronic liver disease

http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2013/index.htm

The National Organization for Women-New York State, Inc. is in favor of primary caregiver presumption. This means that the parent who assumed primary responsibility for the children during the marriage, either father or mother, should continue to be the custodial parent

And who was the default caregiver at that time in almost EVERY SINGLE MARRIAGE? WOMEN.

Fathers Rights groups continue to promote the myth that courts are biased in favor of mothers. In litigated cases, father who sue for custody almost always win. In fact, fathers are often awarded sole custody even when sexual and physical abuse of the children is alleged and substantiated.

I.E. In the teeny tiny percentage of cases where they know they can beat the mother in court they do so. Fathers should have parental rights by default, if abuse is proven then those rights can be revoked (same with the mother). Massive fathers movements asking for default custody? Oh they just want to hurt children! I wonder if that hurts mental health at all?

According to The American Judges Association, 70% of the time the abuser convinces the court to give him custody.

Where are the citations on this page? Where is this source? Why does this horse shit not need verification?

Workplace death is going to be much higher for men because a lot of people won't hire women in the jobs that can cause death, such as oil rigs or the military.

Which jobs are feminists pushing women to? The jobs that are disproportionately killing men or the jobs that are safe and comfy? Where are the feminists pushing for deep sea fisherwomen?

Undergrad enrollment looks fine to me. Does it need to be 50/50? Because a 56/44 split is pretty even I'd say.

Again, which group gets Affirmative Action? And no 56/44 is not equality, nor is 60/40, nor is 70/30, it's 50/50. Affirmative Action should be removed immediately and proper aid should be given to boys\men.

And let's look at your homeless statistic, because its not quite right either and is missing some context. Its hard to say just how much it would go down from fixing the mental health system

As to Men's Centers and Men's only help lines, I don't see those as relevant to this.

Yes let's not help males who are homeless, males who are DV victims, males who want other males to confide in! While we're at it, let's abolish all those same resources for women! I wonder, do you think suicide will rise as a result?

So let me clarify:

  • You don't think suicide attempts are counted multiple times (as people repeat) despite having no evidence that such is the case and the fact that such reporting would require a national database of personal information.

  • You don't think Male suicide is an issue because other people are trying but not succeeding (Crazy thought! Maybe, we can help these men too?) despite males being 80% of those who die, and it being the #7 leading cause of death.

  • You think there's no justification for someone using a non-lethal method as a cry for help, despite the fact that it takes literally a 30 second google to determine that this is ineffective.

  • You don't think workplace death is an issue. (I wonder how you feel about the pay gap? Maybe you also don't understand hazard pay)

  • You think 56/44 (and worsening) is acceptable and don't think women should lose affirmative action or that men should receive it (ignoring the fact that boys are failing in lower education as well: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/leaving-boys-behind-public-high-school-graduation-rates-5829.html)

  • You don't think 1/3 of homeless men matter because they are in a profession dominated by men saying "This is because of our extremely poor veteran's care programs and mental health system."

I understand. It's okay if men die cleaning our water, building our buildings, mining our oil, fishing in our oceans, fighting for our rights. It's fine if those men kill themselves or die in the streets with no shelter. Should we point any of this information out and attempt to say "Hey, look! Men aren't some privileged super class! We really do have issues and we really need help!" it's not okay. If only a handful of men who can afford the difficult legal battle of the family courts fight knowing they can win then it doesn't matter for the rest of them, right? Should those men come forward and say "I really want my children, I love them and I need them! Please help!" we should ignore them, call them rapists, pedophiles, wife beaters after all all men are the same right? How dare those men ask for equal parenting, right?

After all of your nonsense you have the audacity to spin around and say this:

Its hard to say just how much it would go down from fixing the mental health system

A mental health system that won't focus on those dying, won't offer to lend an ear to those most likely to kill themselves, won't support those who are most likely to die or get injured at work, won't support those who are falling out of the education system, won't give the same support structures (Men's centers, DV Shelters, etc.) that already exist for women is not going to help men at all.

Boys hear all the time about how awful men are, about how privileged men are, about how "oppressed" women are, how men have it easy and how men don't work for the money they earn. Everything is given to you when you have a penis right? Except empathy, you'll never get empathy.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

It helps to read everything I say and to not only read the parts you disagree with you know.

You don't think suicide attempts are counted multiple times (as people repeat) despite having no evidence that such is the case and the fact that such reporting would require a national database of personal information.

I said they were right here : "As for how many times an unsuccessful attempt is recounted, each attempt is one attempt"

They intentionally choose a non-lethal method, despite knowing how unsuccessful it is.

Yes, but why do you think this is. The answer isn't, oh because they weren't really suicidal so they didn't want to die! I believe the leading theory that I heard was that women are worried about leaving a mess for someone to clean up afterwards while also wanting to preserve their beauty at the same time. The theory was saying that women have it so ingrained in them that they have to maintain beauty at all times and a bullet to the head would damage them. It sounded a little crazy and dumb to me, but I saw a lot of women nodding their heads in the audience while the speaker was talking about this.

You don't think Male suicide is an issue because other people are trying but not succeeding (Crazy thought! Maybe, we can help these men too?) despite males being 80% of those who die, and it being the #7 leading cause of death.

Where did I say it was non-issue? This chart was painting is an issue that affects men more than women because it has no context, and that's all I was pointing out.

You think there's no justification for someone using a non-lethal method as a cry for help, despite the fact that it takes literally a 30 second google to determine that this is ineffective

Why do you keep saying cry for help like its a bad thing by the way? As someone who attempted suicide, you should be able to understand that of course you want help. You don't want to die, you just don't see any other option for your situation.

You don't think workplace death is an issue. (I wonder how you feel about the pay gap? Maybe you also don't understand hazard pay)

I don't think its a gender/sex issue, no. Something can be an issue without it being against men or women.

You think 56/44 (and worsening) is acceptable and don't think women should lose affirmative action or that men should receive it

I don't recall ever even mentioning affirmative action, so I'm kind of curious how you got that from what I said, but ok. I don't think a 50/50 split is realistic, that's all. A 56/44 is about as close as it will get. If it was 56% men and 44% women I'd feel the same.

You don't think 1/3 of homeless men matter because they are in a profession dominated by men saying "This is because of our extremely poor veteran's care programs and mental health system."

Again, I didn't say they don't matter. I said that the reason that 1/3 are homeless is currently in the process of being fixed, so I wanted to look towards what the numbers could be in the future.

Should those men come forward and say "I really want my children, I love them and I need them! Please help!" we should ignore them, call them rapists, pedophiles, wife beaters after all all men are the same right? How dare those men ask for equal parenting, right?

You really need to calm down. Have a conversation like an adult. I haven't said any of this. In fact, I didn't give my opinion on it at all. I told you that article wasn't the best for supporting what you wanted to say since I saw you posting it around all over the place.

A mental health system that won't focus on those dying, won't offer to lend an ear to those most likely to kill themselves, won't support those who are most likely to die or get injured at work, won't support those who are falling out of the education system, won't give the same support structures (Men's centers, DV Shelters, etc.) that already exist for women is not going to help men at all.

Hi, I work in the mental health system. We do literally all of these things. We're just very poorly funded and still figuring out some things. Psychology is still a relatively new field and you can't expect us to have literally all the answers since it was founded in 1879. There's still a stigma that a lot of people need to get past as well. We want to help people, but not everyone sees it that way. And we can literally only help people if they themselves want help. As to why there aren't very many men's centers, there are less male victims and men are much less likely to actually step forward and ask for help with whatever issue they're having. The combination of these 2 factors leads a lot of regular people who aren't in the field to believe that these just aren't issues that affect men. People are starting to realize that isn't true luckily, so once we manage to get some more funding to fix our mental health systems you should definitely be expecting some of those to pop up more frequently.

Boys hear all the time about how awful men are, about how privileged men are, about how "oppressed" women are, how men have it easy and how men don't work for the money they earn. Everything is given to you when you have a penis right? Except empathy, you'll never get empathy.

Here's the thing. I used to be a guy. I never heard any of that. I never heard really anything about how bad guys are. I still haven't heard it now that I'm on the other side either. There's the occasional shitty comment from women sure, but its comparable to a guy saying "Bitches are crazy." It's awful sure, but its not that serious of a thing for them to say.

I think you might be spending too much time on the Internet looking for this kind of stuff if this is what you hear all the time honestly.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

And we can literally only help people if they themselves want help. As to why there aren't very many men's centers, there are less male victims and men are much less likely to actually step forward and ask for help with whatever issue they're having

Men are ASKING FOR HELP, they're asking for equal parenting, they're asking for DV shelters, they're asking for aid. Feminists come in and tell us men are "privileged" that is the ONLY point of the infographic, not to imply that women aren't suffering but to show that men aren't some kind of apex citizen living in peace and harmony.

I think you might be spending too much time on the Internet looking for this kind of stuff if this is what you hear all the time honestly.

How many of these issues do you think get discussed? Where is the council on Men and Boys? There most certainly is one for Women and Girls. We've asked for one: whitehouseboysmen.org/ repeatedly in fact.

These issues are ignored because they disproportionately affect males, and yes suicide attempts are bad BUT DYING IS WORSE. It is great that women are having their lives saved, now let's starting the lives of men. Suicide is the #7 leading cause of death in males.


Feminists attend meeting on Men's Issues and blow noisemakers in order to prevent discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4euzB0CAsCg


Feminists disrupt forum about battered husbands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM


Feminism bang and stomp while disrupting a female speaker talking about Men's rights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yg-f7fC0Uw


Feminists pull fire alarm to disrupt meeting about Men's Rights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q


Feminists attack participants at University of Toronto discussion on men's rights making pig noises and verbally attacking anyone who nears the area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0


Feminists violently attack peaceful protesters spraying them with pepper spray, spitting on them, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc


[Feminist writer for the guardian wants men put in camps]

"I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back." - Julie Bindel


UK official says men shouldn't be hired because they might be pedophiles.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrea-leadsom-men-paedophiles-childcare-workers-hired-sensible-a7139351.html


Don't forget the wage gap:

The fact of the matter is that Men/Women have different priorities and preferences.

For example Men to tend to work the nightshift more than women: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/flex.pdf

(See Table 4) Notice how Men work more Night Shift hours in every category, then look at Evening shifts and notice an even greater difference with men working more hours than women.

These night shifts pay more. Why? Because they wear down the workers greatly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/06/rotating-shift-work-health_n_6417644.html http://theconversation.com/night-shifts-may-be-more-disruptive-to-women-than-men-brain-study-suggests-57999 http://time.com/3657434/night-work-early-death/

This lines up with some facts about men at work:

  • 80% of suicides. http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/suicide_factsheet-a.pdf
  • 92% of workplace fatalities. http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0013.pdf
  • Men work more hours: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat22.htm

Is it not up to men/women how they work? After all women do live on average 7 years longer.

What about time out of the workforce? Do you believe men/women take more time out for children? Add to that dynamic things like motherhood and child support and you further widen the gap. If women have children to raise themselves do you not think they'll work less and if men are losing earnings due to child support do you not think they'll work more?

One of the most incredibly frustrating things about this gender earnings gap where women earn less is - the answer is generally helping men.

For example men demanded equal default shared parenting - a notion where both parents get equal custody and responsibility by default unless one is proven to be unfit - ending the warfare-esque family court system. Feminist organization NOW fought against this. (I know you don't mind this articles lack of statistics\facts\sources and it's MEN ARE RAPISTS, ABUSERS, etc. claims)

http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/oppose_a00330.html

Of course also is the issue of paternity which plays a role in child support. Fathers all over the western world have been seeking default paternity testing with great opposition from feminists.

Feminist wants to force men to raise children that do not belong to them: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2010/10/whos-the-daddy/

"DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science, a change in the balance of power between the sexes that we’ve hardly come to terms with."

She argues that men should not be allowed to parent only their own children but rather be forced to parent according to the woman's wishes.

This happened again just recently in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f3V7tRpSRs

How can you expect equal work when men do not have equal parental rights? Do you expect men to take parental leave and spend time with a child that may or may not be theirs?

Keep in mind the INCREDIBLY small percentage we're dealing with here ~4-5% not only is this well within the margin of error for wage calculations like these but a small shift like these within the population can easily affect the overall representation of the wage gap.

It's just not cut and dry, and to say "SEXISM!" long before accounting for even basic differences in male and female behavior.

A good testament to this is China where 40% of the STEM workforce is female. This is due to economics - in china women have to work hard jobs in order to provide for their family. The more egalitarian the society the more pronounced the gender differences tend to become.

https://itif.org/publications/2016/03/03/women-represent-40-stem-workforce-china-only-24-us

Though if equal STEM representation is what you're looking for - perhaps we should take a page out of China's egalitarian book?


HA HA HA FUNNY COMMEDY!

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/03/25/sarah-silverman-suggests-all-men-are-potential-rapists/


It's men are misogynists, rapists, murderers, abusers, pedophiles, stupid.

When men ask for help? It's complaining, it's not gendered (just because it affects you more) you can't complain! Then you say "We'd help more men if they'd speak up!"


[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

So you're not even talking to me anymore. Thanks for the dump of links that don't have to do with what I said though I guess? Once again, you cherry pick a sentence without the context around it and go off on a rant though. I dunno, you just don't seem like you want to actually talk and just want to rant so have at it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

We can't talk when you won't listen.

Men have issues, they want them addressed. You simultaneously complain about Men not coming forward and harass them when they do. When men say "We're not getting fair custody" you cite an an sourced claim saying abusers always win.

You have no intention of helping men, despite the fact that you are one yourself.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

You simultaneously complain about Men not coming forward and harass them when they do.

I haven't harassed any men actually, but thanks for the input. I actually talked about how things will likely be getting better for men over the next few years because of the awareness from groups like yours. All you did was rant about feminists in that last post. If you want to talk about men's rights, talk about the issues not your "opponents." Feminism is a broad group of people and they don't all agree with that.

When men say "We're not getting fair custody" you cite an an sourced claim saying abusers always win.

It said the fathers win when they actually attempt to get custody. That's just the kind of thing that awareness should be raised on so that fathers don't give up on getting custody. It said that fathers win DESPITE being abusers if they are one. Not that all fathers are abusers. It was just that fathers can win despite that.

You have no intention of helping men, despite the fact that you are one yourself.

Nice, now we get the transphobia because you disagree with me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

I haven't harassed any men actually, but thanks for the input.

You came to dismantle the infographic (low quality as it may be) completely missing the point: Men aren't privileged, they need help same as anyone else.

I actually talked about how things will likely be getting better for men over the next few years because of the awareness from groups like yours.

"Thanks for raising awareness, let me explain how none of these things matter! Men dying, #7 cause of death? Well, women attempt more! So it's clearly not an important gendered issue for you! Yes, sure it's killing you but that's minor right?"

All you did was rant about feminists in that last post.

I.E. Those pushing this "Misogyny", "Male Privilege", "Men are paedophiles, rapists, etc." narrative.

It said the fathers win when they actually attempt to get custody.

In the tiny fraction of cases where they know they can win.

That's just the kind of thing that awareness should be raised on so that fathers don't give up on getting custody.

The system is stacked against them, we're advocating for law that would guarantee a fair playing field.

It said that fathers win DESPITE being abusers if they are one. Not that all fathers are abusers.

If it does not apply to all fathers (or a provable majority even) then it's irrelevant to the discussion. I won't bring baby drowning to a table about mothers when I know it's not the majority of mothers.

It was just that fathers can win despite that.

This claim was entirely uncited, seriously go back to the page and show me the source, the original study, the methods, the facts. Where are they?

Feminism is a broad group of people and they don't all agree with that.

Feminism is a cancer, their ideology is broken. Their leaders and movement have repeatedly fought against equal rights. Men are 92% of workplace deaths? Let's push women into cushy office jobs. Men are 80% of suicides? Well Women attempt more! Men are most homicide victims? Well men are to blame, because men do it more!

Men's centers, men's shelters, male specific programs to help those most affected? Not necessary, don't ask for such things, yes women have all of these but why SHOULD men have them?

Nice, now we get the transphobia because you disagree with me.

I have no fear of you, I'm merely pointing out the facts: You are a man. DNA does not lie.

I suppose we can't all claim we're something else though.

[–]xaivteev 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree that the graphic is pretty unrepresentative and cherry picks quite a bit. But your statistics about rape victims is actually a Men's rights issue. Rape typically doesn't include being made to penetrate (someone forcing someone else to insert their penis into someone or something) under the law (Assuming US or UK, don't know much about other places). With that included, the rape stat turns into a 60-40 split (women are the 60).

The 1/6 women having been victims of rape doesn't tell us much, as someone who is raped once and never again is added on to the massive accumulation. Also, I'm not sure what source you're using, but most I've seen reporting that number or a number close to it (1/5, or 1/4) include other forms of sexual assault (which is still bad, but not considered rape) and are of a non-representative sample size. But, back to my main point, it's much more informative to point out that the rape rate per year has declined and is projected to decline still.

Still, I'm glad you bothered to talk instead of making some cheeky remark. It's only through educated discussion that actual progress will be made.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not quite 60/40 actually.

A CDC study found that, in the US, 1 in 71 men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime. The same study found that approximately 1 in 21 or 4.8% men in a survey had been made to penetrate someone else, usually an intimate partner or acquaintance

Its definitely higher than people like to talk about, but its not quite that high.

[–]xaivteev 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for that correction. I hope I'm doing my math right this time around. It turns into a 27% if I'm doing this right.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf (770,000+4,478,000)/19,049,000

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"The overall weighted response rate for the 2010 NISVS ranged from 27.5% to 33.6%" See page 6: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-response_bias

[1] Attempted Rape is incredibly low for students and non-students in the most vulnerable age group.

"For the period 1995–2013, females ages 18 to 24 not enrolled in a post-secondary school were 1.2 times more likely to experience rape and sexual assault victimization (7.6 per 1,000), compared to students in the same age range (6.1 per 1,000) (table 1)"http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

[1a] The rate of Completed Rapes is even lower: "The rate of completed rape for nonstudents (3.1 per 1,000) was 1.5 times higher than for students (2.0 per 1,000). " http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

[1b] Rape has been decreasing rapidly and of statistics in 2014 rates were as low as 1.1 per 1000 for the general population. (See Table 1) http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf

[–]killcat 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Quite right female suicide attempts are cries for help, ones that get answered, male suicides know there is no help coming.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

No, you can't just dismiss a suicide attempt as a cry for help. If someone is attempting suicide, it is every bit as serious as a completed attempt

[–]killcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

except that they choose methods that are more likely to fail, so either continuous poor planning, or they are not intended to succeed.

[–]soalone34 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Look at suicide rates in other countries where guns are banned. Men STILL do it more. For whatever reason women are more likely to make half hearted attempts, and men more likely to really mean it when they do it.

As for military deaths, what the hell? So it's totally okay that msn are way more likely to sacrifice themselves? Also men still have to sign up for selective service while women don't.

Industrial deaths, you're right. For lower class people when the job opprutunities are bad usually the man is expected to take the dangerous jobs in industry and the woman becomes a stay at home wife. Luckily, in higher classes the woman branches out and starts working in safer better paying places. Weird how all the affirmative action is about putting women in safe secure jobs and leaving dangerous ones almost entirely populated by men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why'd you even reply to a month old thread if you're just going to downvote my answer and not respond?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This post is a month old.

For whatever reason women are more likely to make half hearted attempts, and men more likely to really mean it when they do it.

Women aren't making "half hearted attempts." Men and women choose different methods of suicide. Women tend to think more about what people will find afterwords and about preserving beauty even after death because society has ingrained that beauty is the most important over and over.

As for military deaths, what the hell? So it's totally okay that msn are way more likely to sacrifice themselves?

Its not that men are way more likely to sacrifice themselves, its that we literally won't let women into those positions. So how is that a fair comparison?

Also men still have to sign up for selective service while women don't.

A draft isn't' likely to ever happen again. Secondly, you don't HAVE to sign up for the selective service.

For lower class people when the job opprutunities are bad usually the man is expected to take the dangerous jobs in industry and the woman becomes a stay at home wife.

That is literally not how lower class families work. In lower class families, both parents work jobs. Sometimes they work multiple jobs. What do you think lower class single parent moms do? You're literally running with the assumption that these people are poor because they're lazy and won't work jobs and that's just been proven wrong over and over again.

Weird how all the affirmative action is about putting women in safe secure jobs and leaving dangerous ones almost entirely populated by men.

Its not? Women want to join the military. Women want to work in factories. Women want tech jobs. But literally everyone steers women away from those jobs.

[–]unbelievablepeople 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Industrial Deaths are very similar to military deaths where women just won't be in the field nearly as much

So if you're OK with men dying on the job more often because they have different jobs than women, I assume you're also OK with men getting paid more because they have different jobs than women?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said I was okay with it.

[–]littlecolt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How dare you make a sensible post in this sub!

Seriously, though, spot on. This graphic is pretty garbage, lets people on this side of the argument feel good. SOmehow.

[–]unbelievablepeople -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

women have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of attempted suicide

I notice you didn't cite a source for this. Probably because it's totally false.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You could have just googled it instead of calling me a liar you know.

http://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

[–]dork_souls 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If someone Googles something they could encounter results that skew the data or misrepresent it, so the best thing is to offer your own source when making a claim to ensure that you are providing sources, not letting people source your claims.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Its a well known statistic. I didn't think I needed to source something that has been known for a very long time.

[–]dork_souls 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well you don't know who is reading. It's a bad thing to assume people will know something that you think is 'well known' because you don't frequent the same academic or social circles as everyone. Also information isn't always spread to everyone.

I think there is a thing called 'the Lucky 10,000', that for everything that you know, ten thousand people are only hearing it for the first time. Here's a comic that explains it well

[–]xkcd_transcriber 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Image

Mobile

Title: Ten Thousand

Title-text: Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 7480 times, representing 6.3128% of referenced xkcds.


xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

[–]unbelievablepeople -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn't call you a liar, I called you misinformed. Which you are. The very link you cite shows that there simply isn't data to back up what you claimed: "No complete count is kept of suicide attempts in the U.S."

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, there is no COMPLETE count. That means that there are likely a lot that go unreported as well as some self-harm that gets reported as a suicide attempt. Do you think that every male suicide attempt just goes unreported?

You didn't even read the rest of the sentence you're quoting :

however, each year the CDC gathers data from hospitals on non-fatal injuries from self-harm.

Females attempt suicide three times more often than males.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Better version:

https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

[–]Incruentus 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Every time this is posted the resolution decreases.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's a better one (made by me) https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

[–]WodensEye 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Homocide? Is that when LGBT are murdered?

[–]mitzibishi 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

you forgot:

pays for date Men 100%

[–]NegativeChirality 28 points29 points30 points 10 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

The more notable male privilege is not paying for dates, it's having to thrown thousands of messages into the abyss of online dating, or approach dozens of random women at bars.

The inequity of online dating disgusts me.

[–]badwig 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Don't do it, join a class and meet a nice girl with similar interests. Many women online have no intention of replying to anyone, it is just an ego stroke seeing the requests roll in. Some groups are full of women, book group, dance class, full of women, no men.

[–]NegativeChirality 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Good advice. Perhaps I should try yoga or something. something that would be good regardless of meeting anyone

[–]badwig 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, yoga is another class 95% women. Sure, if you concentrate on enjoying the class and don't fixate on using it to meet someone it will probably be a more fulfilling experience anyway. It is more the quality of person you will meet too, women in bars and pulling duck faces online aren't going to have a lot going for them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't really understand this view. Tons of people from all walks of life and at all levels of personal success go to bars, some a lot, others just once in a while. Some of them are single. Same with dating apps - it's 2016, and everyone is busy with their lives, it's an easy way to maintain a dating life. You're just as likely to meet some young doctor type on tinder or in a bar as you are at a book club or whatever. I matched with a professor at a top US university not long ago.

And honestly, if you can't meet women effectively online and in other social settings, you will have trouble in a yoga class too.

[–]badwig 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If someone doesn't have a lot of confidence then having a relaxed chat at class break has got to be easier than approaching a group of women at a bar. I'm biased though, I just hate everything about the bar/club scene.

I am sure there are some nice women online but 95%+ seem to have faces like bulldogs/drawn in eyebrows/duck face/or their descriptions just sound not suitable at all - u wot m8 etc.

[–]NegativeChirality -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nope. And it goes the other way, yes? Not much going for me if I'm begging for dregs on okcupid, eh?

[–]badwig 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as you don't pull a duck face it's ok.

[–]Ali3nation 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"something that would be good regardless of meeting anyone"

booyah!

[–]Throwawayingaccount 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

join a class and meet a nice girl with similar interests.

But... but... if you talk to a girl with unwanted contact, you're literally a rapist.

[–]ztsmart 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Just fucking opt out of that bullshit. Online women are the worst. First off, they are not even very attractive, but even if they are some fat cow, they will ACT like they are some hot girl. I don't need that kind of shit.

I am a physically fit man in my early 30s with a 6 figure income and no child support or alimony. I am what many women would want in a boyfriend, but fuck that shit. What do women really add to our lives? Just cut them out, cut out the paying for dates, cut out the online "dating", cut them all out and you will be much much happier

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, you really sound much happier.. not bitter at all!

[–]ztsmart 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would be very bitter. In a lot of ways the way men get screwed over by society really bother me and women today often act in ways I find reprehensible.

But money takes the sting of bitterness away and I am left with both happiness and disdain. Focus on building wealth fo yourself and leave the cattle of okcupid to men who will put up them

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Zwischenzugzwang 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Off topic here but a question about bisexuality. Since bisexuality means sexual attraction to both genders male and female, do bisexuals see both genders as equally attractive or is there a preference of one over the other, like choosing between cake and pizza but enjoying both?

[–]chinawinsworlds -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You want a woman who respects you? You want women to treat you like a real man? Then you better suck up things like this. Approach the woman, efficiently set a date for a meetup, don't pay for anything for her, simply lead her on a 'date' of your choosing. Make decisions and so on. Sure, it's not equal, but we are not biologically equal, and women want this things. It turns them on.

This is what makes us strong. Being rejected a billion times, finding our masculinity and so on.

[–]morerokk 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Nah, too much effort. If she doesn't respect equality then I can't respect her.

[–]chinawinsworlds -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not a single woman on Earth really respects this type of equality. They all want you to make decisions, to be a man. If not you're just a walking wallet.

[–]morerokk 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then I guess I'm staying single. Traditional masculinity is not for me.

[–]chinawinsworlds -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's totally alright! It's always an option to not be part of this game. I personally feel I get more energy and positivity from being masculine, and I like how happy it makes my girlfriend.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Online dating has its challenges regardless of gender - and whether in the real world or online the problem is caused by the same thing: legions of thirsty dudes. It seems pretty lame and time consuming on the girl side too, just different.

[–]morerokk 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Women's problems on dating sites is having too much choice. Must be hard.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It is. Obviously it's a different sort of problem. But filtering takes effort. Slogging through hundreds of conversations is time consuming and frustrating. Turning people down feels shitty. Ignoring someone clamoring for attention is irritating. Etc. Dealing with hundreds of people who are all wrong can be demoralizing.

I used to run a sex blog with my ex - the amount of women frustrated and unhappy with online dating is huge. Not finding anyone really sucks, but not finding anyone right also sucks. By and large, I have put in far less effort into online dating than women I met online.

A craigslist meet (for some casual play, not even anything serious) told me she read through over six hundred messages before answering mine. It took me five minutes to write. Who put in more effort?

Here is a letter we got (one of hundreds like it), and my ex's reply.

http://i.imgur.com/enYurqE.png

It's a problem of plenty, but it is a problem. In all honestly, I'd fucking hate it if legions of unattractive women were clamoring for my attention and beating down my door everywhere I went in real life, and on every dating site. I much prefer my current situation.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

while the graphic is accurate enough, it understates the overall problem so badly that it's almost counter productive.

There's way, WAY more areas of "male privilege" inequalities that aren't included, making this small list look a little bit like whining. Include 20 or 30 more items and it becomes harder to discount.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's some more:

https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

I went to the extra distance to make specific citations e.g. Page and table.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why post articles when you can get the easy karma for pointing out cherry picked comparisons that fit the agenda? Oh and on top of that, let's make fun of women for DOING THE EXACT SAME BULLSHIT.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Throughout my entire life the most privilege and abuse of privilege I've ever seen has come from white women. While it's just my personal experience. That's a solid 20 years plus of cognitive memory. Not even close. White women.

[–]Pointless_arguments 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This infographic would have a lot more weight if it had correct spelling. "Homocide"? Really?

[–]un_salamandre 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This infographic had me way confused by making women blue.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Homocide

Homicide

[–]SenorTrumper 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is there a bigger version? One made for people not ants?

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The titles are always: Male Privilege

How about: The Misandry Gap

.

Added: those aren't male privileges, it's misandry.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Male Privilege is meant sarcastically.

In my infographic (Note how it is both readable and has specific sources cited per chart and shows table/page numbers) I put it in quotes to emphasize just that.

https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well done. The sources will make the quieten the doubters.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity, how do these numbers compare to others, such as the percentage of industrial employees that are men?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A good question. I imagine they're very similar.

Could you link me to a list of the jobs feminists are currently pushing women into and attempting to mandate quotas for?

I'm curious as to which jobs are on the list :) I imagine sewage workers are predominantly male. Thoughts?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was just asking a question, not looking to start a pointless Internet fight with a smart ass like you who lives for this sort of stuff

[–]Jayebyrd1515 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This data is so screwed up and skewed its unbelievable. Though the individual data points are correct, the conclusions that this infographic leads you to are complete bullshit

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]oshmkufa2010 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yet there we are talking about police brutality towards black people and racism on an epic scale. Asking for blacks and whites to be murdered at similar rates is just off-putting, don't you think? And now please try to justify to me how my statement is wrong and yours isn't. I'm DYING to know.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]oshmkufa2010 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Wow, look who's talking. At least I'm not the one who can't respond in a semi-civilised way and starts insulting the other person right from the get go. You were talking about how it is “off-putting” to ask for men and women to be murdered at similar rates, which is implying that for some reason men apparently deserve to be murdered in higher rates than women, which is a rather sexist thing to say. I drew the comparison by turning the gender issue into a race issue, because it would be pretty universally considered racist to imply that it's no issue if black people are murdered in higher rates than whites.

I've never met someone with such a lack of reading comprehension they couldn't understand two tiny paragraphs.

Says the person writing a whole rant about things that are completely off topic by pulling the military, draft and industry deaths right out of their ass. That's not the part I was responding to, jackass. How about you practise what you preach and learn some reading comprehension instead of insulting people?

Oh, and you're ignoring me? Aww, you hurt my feelings. I'll probably have to cry myself to sleep tonight. /s

Claiming I'm the infantile one and going ahead by announcing that you're ignoring me without giving me a single chance to respond. How mature of you. Pathetic.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]oshmkufa2010 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

First off, industry deaths and combat deaths aren't murder.

Thanks Captain Obvious. That's exactly why I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about the homicide statistics, which your excellent reading comprehension skills seem to have missed. So again, stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

That's exactly what you did.

Oh, really? Quote anything from my first response that goes beyond being somewhat provocative and is a direct insult. I dare you.

People don't choose to get shot by cops.

But people choose to be the victims of other cases of homicide that are committed by civilians? Yeah, totally. I'm talking about homicide, not combat deaths.

Hey jackass, you don't cherry-pick one part of someone's argument to change the meaning of their message.

Wtf are you even talking about? I was merely asking of you to explain one point: why it's okay to imply that there's no issue when men are murdered in higher rates than women, but it would be considered racist to imply that there's no problem if blacks are killed in higher rates than whites. It's not my fault if you go full rampage and start throwing in all kinds of stuff that I wasn't talking about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But arent you guys against women in combat arms and industrial jobs? In any case our society does not support women joining those roles and teaches girls at a young age that they shouldnt participate in those jobs.

[–]YmirisHappy -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Repost-kin

[–]Ohbeejuan -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Some of those are bullshit. Many, many more men serve in the military and work in industrial settings.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Ohbeejuan -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's not a valid comparison. I'd like to see some stats comparing percentage of women in those roles versus percentage of corresponding casualties. And with the military many more women serve in non-combat roles than combat roles. Basically, those two stats mean nothing. It's propaganda promoting the Men's Rights cause.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Please cite the feminist movement trying to get women into dangerous and dirty jobs.

Can't find one can you?

[–]Ohbeejuan -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude that's literally the feminist movement. Did you completely miss the whole Rosie the Riveter lesson in high school? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movement

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude that's literally the feminist movement.

The feminist movement of the past which wanted women in the workforce not the modern feminist movement which wants preferential quotas for jobs in desirable/easy fields.

We always hear about STEM, why not sewer workers, petroleum engineering, deep sea fishing?

[–]Mac4491 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Isn't saying that more men die in combat or due to industrial workplace accidents along the same lines as saying women get paid less for the same job?

We all know that this is false, there is simply just more men in higher paid jobs than there is women. Just like there are more men in combat roles and industrial workplaces than there is women.

I just don't like that argument all that much.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's a better one: https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

Suicide, homelessness, undergrad enrollment, etc.

At what point do men get help?

[–]killcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean other than feminist arguing that lower paid, safer, jobs that are primarily employing women should pay the same as more dangerous jobs that primarily employ men?

[–]Grasshopper21 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Forgot to include 90% of all rape victims are men

[–]anonymous_212 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Another one is 80% of women have children and 40% of men have children.

[–]earlywarningsigns -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

is this really OC to you?

[+]Surtysurt -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But I feel oppressed

[+]SweelFor -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So are you asking that more women get killed ? Or to suicide more ? Okay I know you're not but then what's the point ? Men suicide more ? That's true. But are you accusing women of that ? If not what's the point ? I don't understand

Honestly these just don't make sense, I don't even know where to begin, it's non sense

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The point is that the idea of "male privilege" is bullshit.

[–]Mac4491 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

While true I don't think the examples in that picture are very good at all. The only one that shows a situation where men are possibly treated unfairly is the custody battle one.

More men in combat roles will obviously result in more male deaths. More men in industrial workplaces will obviously increase the number of males being injured/killed in a workplace accident.

Where's the correlation between men killing themselves and that being an example of an argument against the existence of Male privilege? Same for why more men are victims of homicide.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's a better infographic:

https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

I'd argue homelessness, suicide, and undergrad enrollment are all very serious signs of a lack of empathy towards men.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So are you asking that more women get killed ?

Maybe the point is that, men do a lot dangerous work? Maybe the question is "Why are women's groups advocating women to work in cushy office jobs and not in sewers"?

Men suicide more ? That's true. But are you accusing women of that ?

Maybe, just maybe we can have a White House council on Men and Boys? You know, like the one we have repeatedly asked for?

http://whitehouseboysmen.org/

http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2014/02/03/exposed-obama-blocks-white-house-council-on-boys-and-men-n1788584

http://www.warrenfarrell.name/

https://www.aei.org/publication/statement-from-the-white-house-council-on-men-and-boys/

If not what's the point ? I don't understand

The point isn't to HURT women, it's to HELP men.

Here's a better infographic (I made it): https://imgur.com/WWozf7O

Homelessness, Suicide, Undergrad enrollment (Which women receive affirmative action for) all disproportionately favor women.

It's time to say:

  1. "Okay, women aren't dying from suicide like men are, let's give Men some specific attention and help them out!"
  2. NO MORE discriminating against men, let men into higher education just as women are. ~60/40 is not equal. Help men reach 50% and help keep it there.
  3. Time for some major homelessness fixes, particularly those affecting men. Time to give places for men abused by their wives and to ensure that men who return from combat are getting treated right.

[–]I_Like_Stats_Facts -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like this :).

[–]Nulono -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The image you are requesting does not exist or is no longer available.

Deep, bruh.

[–]1-picAlbumsareCancer -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]FiftyshadesoBullshit -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its a privilage to be their doormat.

[+]Sgshallow -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I must say that after thinking about custody again. It does make sense to give the mother the child as she is much less likely be brutally and or violently killed. If daddys going to die at work or be murdered may add well just live with mom. I feel all the privilege suffering for others. =_=

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