Rape by deception

Phoenix__Rising2018 · 2021-02-09T15:44:40+00:00

Or when they're in a relationship with a woman and have sex with the woman one last time when they know they're going to dump her right after.

GIfuckingJane · 2021-02-09T18:42:11+00:00

I wrote a post about this! The last guy I dated strung me along and lied that he wanted to continue a relationship with me when we moved. Instead, he just wanted to use me for sex then throw me away. I did some research to describe how I felt about the situation. Why did I feel so violated, hurt, disgusted and betrayed?

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/j6i20s/rape_by_manipulation

fdssavedmylife · 2021-02-09T18:54:24+00:00

That’s the worst thing about every break up, knowing they’ve been planning this for weeks or months, telling you they love you and letting you be vulnerable and have sex with them. It’s disgusting and deceitful. It is rape.

penelopekitty · 2021-02-09T16:02:04+00:00

I agree, this is rape. Rape by deception is a concept that has been brewing for a few years. I know someone in NJ was trying to get a law passed. I don't think it happened. Here is a link about the story.

The main issue is proof that the deception was intentional and not that the man just "changed his mind" about the relationship after some period of time.

I don't know what the answer is but I agree that men should face consequences for conning women into sex by lying about themselves or the relationship. It is insidious and exposes women to all kinds of physical risk and emotional trauma.

It seems that every time women try to do something about this it is shot down. There once was a website called Don't Date Him Girlwhere women tried to warn each other about men they had dated. It was sued. Funny though how revenge porn is almost impossible to get taken off the internet.

esoldelulu · 2021-02-09T18:38:22+00:00

I was raped through deception and covert aggression. I remember what went on in my mind when I found out the truth. It was as if a storm surged into my brain, a loud assault of thoughts on shame, violation, self-loathing, despair, and pain. And that storm was so forceful, it felt like if I gave into that overwhelming tidal wave of emotion I would not come out of it alive. That LVM had the audacity to think he did me a favour, curing my “loneliness.” I wasn’t lonely. I was frightened, complied, and deceived to comply.

I survived that by saying NO to that storm. The consequences of his bullshit and lack of remorse is not for me to carry nor own whatsoever.

lilneccowafer · 2021-02-09T16:48:16+00:00

HOT take: libfems pushing consent like crazy didn't do much other than give predators a sneakier idea to rape women. They made the mistake of thinking men just don't understand consent, weren't taught about it, somehow also victims of rape culture. They fucking know what it is. Now they know we're more likely to speak up about rape and they know that lying to get consent is easier. It's all the same.

KateJ1982 · 2021-02-09T17:02:34+00:00

This makes sense to me. If someone takes your money by threat of violence, deception, or coercion, it's still theft. So similarly sex under threat of violence, deception, or coercion is all rape.

However, I don't want to minimize the greater atrocity of violent rape.

shutup201 · 2021-02-09T17:18:57+00:00

I agree. The intentions are the same imo. It's just a long term attack instead of quick. Unfortunately, this is pretty much normal and standard in our society.

throwawaynevermindit · 2021-02-09T18:55:12+00:00

There are already jurisdictions that recognize rape by fraud as a class of sex crime, just not enough of them. Women MUST get behind having this kind of coercion formally recognized as criminal en masse. Even if it's difficult to prove, having it recognized as Deviant According To Law will be beneficial. It is completely absurd and inconsistent that consent must be informed to be considered legally valid and meaningful in other contexts, only for the standard to be lower in sexual contexts. It makes no sense.

I really fought with myself trying to understand how I'd accumulated straight up trauma from "consensual" sex, especially since I've had many distinctly non-traumatic experiences with even disappointing sex/disappointing partners... until it dawned on me that the traumatic incidents were all incidents where someone had deliberately withheld important details to keep me from being able to make an informed decision aka truly consent to what was happening, even if I assented to what I was lead to believe was happening. What I was coping with wasn't mere disappointment, it was the inevitable psychological fallout of being subjected to a subtle variety of sexual abuse.

I know I'm not the only one. I see it in women all the time. Often we fail to recognize this kind of violation-based trauma for what it is because we fail to recognize misrepresentation in pursuit of sex as the coercive, boundary-violating tactic that it is. The feelings instead get framed as "heart break" and similar which is neither accurate nor helpful.

The dynamic gets played off as normal and acceptable, which... while it is common, it is clearly ethically reprehensible and not something consistent with most other applications of consent law, if you peel your brain away from patriarchy and think about it clearly for 2 seconds.

Attempting to get around someone's sexual boundaries in ANY way instead of respecting them requires the person doing it to have a rapist's mindset, period, just as a person that scams others out of money has the mindset of a thief despite not having committed armed robbery. The violation doesn't have to be as severe as rape by force, intimidation or incapacitation to be something we recognize as unacceptable and worth punishing. The law is more than capable of recognizing the gradients if we insist it does.

Edit: Everyone tempted to repeat the "it will cheapen the word rape!!!!!" argument and everyone who thinks something being hard to prove is justification for it remaining legal need to stop falling for excuses fed to them by misogynists. The purpose of both takes is to whittle the definition of "rape" down to nothing so that more predators can get away with their behavior, nothing more. Something can be ruled a crime without implying it is as severe as the same thing accomplished through/with force, without cheapening anything. Many things are illegal that are difficult to prove in practice. Those aren't real reasons not to push for this.

Emergency-Feed8216 · 2021-02-09T18:41:27+00:00

I absolutely hate being made party to men putting down their relationships. I understand that they're trying to hijack social approval for abusing their mates the better to abuse their mates. If you openly disapprove, you risk their malevolent retaliation. If you say nothing, you know they'll take this as a green light to further abuse their partners. Whether you like it or not, you're being inculcated in abuse.

By that token, cheating involves rape too. You know when a married creep claims their marriage is loveless, exists only on paper and they sleep in separate rooms? Usually bs which means these guys are hijacking sex (not to mention wifely labor) under circumstances their wives probably wouldn't consent to if they knew the truth.

I always cringe when people say "Oh the wife must know her husband cheats..." Most people refuse to understand the nature of gaslighting.

I worked with this goosey-looking woman in her thirties who had the same position as me but in another city. She was a Harvard alum. She'd come to my neck of the woods to check out our operations and "lend support" and, whenever she'd visit, would confide in me about hooking up with this or that married douche from my division.

I was really young, nervous about keeping my job and didn't know I could have been warning the wives, but the whole thing seemed gross and wrong. Then we were at an evening work event and some hard-drinking 40-ish creep I hadn't met before with big yellow teeth and a wedding ring was telling me about his amicable in-house marital separation. I left (ew) and learned later that Ms. Doorknob went to a hotel with him. When she confided the story, she was freaked out and shaken up because when a condom broke, the guy started screaming abusively that if she got pregnant or was carrying a disease, his wife would find out, etc. So, not such an open arrangement after all. I told her simply that all the randy assholes pretend they're not "really married" but then you meet the wives and it's obviously not true.

I was naive to think Ms. Doorknob needed advice or even cared whether the wives were on board to begin with. She didn't even consider that if this guy was screaming at a rando hookup, he was probably massively abusing his wife. I made the mistake of suggesting this. Just to prove she was a knowing proxy abuser, Ms. Doorknob smoothed things over with the douche by telling him what a cynical man-hater I was. Then she plagiarized one of my projects and got accolades for it.

There was no recourse to file complaints and I had to grit my teeth and wait for fallout from the clearly abusive managerial douche she'd pitted against me.

I still have daydreams about going back in time and sending anonymous notes to all the wives.

ragingchump · 2021-02-09T20:29:23+00:00

I found out about my ex husbands affair while we were out of town. Of course i didnt know it was an affair, he had been acting weird and forced a fight the night before we left on the trip so i was trying to believe they were friends.

Anyway point being that we had sex several times on that trip and less than a week later he was done w our marriage.

After i realized what had been going and on and saw the text logs....i felt used and abused and violated and just absolutely horrified. And disgusted and physically ill and hollow and enraged.

Ashitaga · 2021-02-09T22:37:15+00:00

Also having sex with you when you are asleep/unconscious is still rape. My NVX did this when I was asleep a few times and I woke up to it...

tellmesomething11 · 2021-02-09T19:18:54+00:00

It’s “relationship by fraud.” And men should be held accountable for it, because they are out here actively ruining lives.

2021-02-09T22:03:25+00:00

Men know when it's rape. They just don't tell it to you, them knowing that you are a feminist will also want them to subdue you. So it's truly best to stand for yourself as yourself.

Knowing yourself is key, if you are authentic they hold back for you.

The keynote here is "hold back" not "put reverence" on you as a woman.

Many rapes occur beyond what we imagined everyday, and sadly being raised in a princess-pickmeisha household will always enable men to rape.

pikkpie · 2021-02-09T17:23:51+00:00

You do have a point. It clearly blurs the line in terms of consent.

luvmyvulvaxoxo · 2021-02-10T01:08:42+00:00

I don't want to be incendiary and I hope people keep an open mind.

I've been brutally raped multiple times by an abusive ex.

I've also experienced "rape by deception". And I have to say the damage done to me by the physical abuse I faced is nothing like the aftermath of being lied to to have sex.

Part of many survivor's issues is that they don't want to recognize rape for what it is. Because there IS such a big difference in your trauma between being physically abused vs. coerced.

My therapist taught me there's 3 types of sexual assault.

There's coercive sex (so someone lying to you about who they are, convincing you to do it and you give in), there's forced sex (where someone basically physically pushes themselves on you, but doesn't hold you down, you just give in to their physical advances) and then there's rape (which involves being restrained/struggling).

And I know a lot of women think that by differentiating between the types basically minimizes rape, or doesn't recognize rape - But I think it can be VERY healing for women to recognize the nuance. For me, I couldn't understand what I'd been through until I heard those terms.

Astral_weaver · 2021-02-10T13:46:36+00:00

This term should be normalized.

Alarming-Midnight-73 · 2021-02-10T03:06:50+00:00

This is a really good point. I haven't thought of it in that way before.

victoriabowen8 · 2021-02-10T18:14:42+00:00

The honest answer? It would be impossible to prove. The reason given would always be that his feelings just changed after sex but when they had sex he was genuinely into her.

And I also think you need to be really careful with the rape word. Over and misuse of it will only cheapen it's meaning. It's already happened with the word racist. People don't even bat an eye anymore because EVERYTHING is racist these days so it just gets tuned out. We don't want that to happen with rape too (and to a degree it already has). These are strong words and need to be reserved for objective application for them to retain their effect.

I do understand what you're saying OP and on a personal/moral level I agree with you. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be realistic to apply and could possibly have negative consequences.

blair2006 · 2021-02-13T01:19:40+00:00

This happened to me; ex BF and I had sex on new years and then the condom broke so we had to find a pharmacy open for plan B. Next day he broke up with me over the phone. I hope he rots in hell. When I used to use dating apps, I saw his profile claiming he was 5’9. I'm 5’7 and he was maybe a hair taller then me.

I won't dated him because my first bf broke up with me a few weeks before and I didn't want to be “alone” again.

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Title	Rape by deception
Author	witchingsauce
Upvotes	330
Comments	51
Date	February 9, 2021 2:19 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/lg49nj/rape_by_deception/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/rape-by-deception.740285 https://theredarchive.com/post/740285

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