Good point.. | MensRights

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"... but it's different when it's a woman ...", says most women.

[+]I-Cut-Myself 11 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I get a twitch when someone says that

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"But it's different when it's a woman" is a phrase that only applies in reference to a woman being asked to be held accountable for her actions. If it's something where men are perceived to have any advantage because of their difference in gender, either real or imagined, it then suddenly becomes "Men and women are exactly the same, gender is a mere construct of the patriarchy. Any advantage ever given to a man is sexism and disgusting bigotry!"

Feminists not only want to keep the privileges that are inherent to women, but they want to have all the privileges that are inherent to men as well, except without any of the male responsibility. They want to be viewed as equals only when it comes to things that benefit their circumstance, but then treated as delicate little flowers who should be granted special treatment because of their gender when it comes to anything that doesn't benefit them.

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Is there a video for this? I'd like to see it.

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[–]Anathema_Redditus 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

It shouldn't, I agree. But sometimes police brutaliy HAS to happen in order to subdue a violent suspect or protect the public.

To illustrate how much police brutality actually happens, see this (copypasta'ed from /u/ItwasDumblydore)

Sheer number of murders, Do you know how many cops we have in the world, lets just get an estimate of USA which out of the first world nations has the most (but also has a giant population).

401 cops per 100,000 people

USA's population is 319,000,000/100,000 = 3190 x 401.

1,279,190 Million Cops

1100~ Cases of Cops killing people in USA in 2014 (this includes people who where armed / police brutality/ect). But lets say these where all brutality cases.

1100/1,279,190 = 0.00085991916

0.086% of cops have killed a civilian.

And of right now USA is currently at 1/2 of what we had in 2014 and close to 2013/2012/2011/2010? And out of those 1100, a lot of them didn't go without consequence if they where a crime.

I am not saying there isn't corruption and shitty things happen, but when this shit happens it's cops putting cops on trial, if you where in the jury and the person on trial was a friend or a nice work colleague, etc. Without substantial proof you will find it hard to believe, the cop is going to say his side of the story that will make him look good. Or are you going to punish your friend/work colleague off people trying to start media attention?

Also 600 gun accidents happen a year, I guess everyone in USA should get rid of their guns? (As a Canadian I'm not going to touch gun control subject)

Fuck Vending machines kill more then sharks do, we have to get rid of those too.

[–]PM_ME_YER_CUNT -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ItWasDumblydore 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (26 children) | Copy Link

That comment was to someone finding alright to say kill cops because of what 0.089% do. So you agree we should slump 0.089% of the cops with the 99.911% of the cops who try to uphold the law.

None of these things are alright, but people and the media are trying to make it seem like Cops are just this..

By overblown it means, it's being exaggerated and it is, why haven't people cared about police brutality in the previous years where the cops have killed (armed and non armed civilians) (2015/2013-2010) But it wasn't the biggest issue 2014 where it was at a record twice as higher then usual? But now in 2015 we suddenly care so much because of a few cases where they didn't get in trouble... how about the good chunk over the years who have been punished that never see the day of news?

What about the over 1100 cases of murder on homicide between civilians with fire arms?

What about the over 1100 cases of murder on homicide between civilians with weapons? (knifes/ect/ect)

Or what about the 1.3% of women and 0.9% who get physically abused in relationships?

These are all issues to oh and that's 2.2% out of 319,000,000 versus 0.086% of 1,279,190.

All the things are issues but now we have a bunch of people think death to the cops because of what 0.086% do. They should be taken seriously but don't fucking propagandize cops into being horrible human beings, when the majority who do commit the acts shown do get in trouble, but because the news wants to pick cases where they don't get in trouble, boom cops are suddenly Hitler! Wait... wait Doctors accidently kill people at a higher rate... GUYS GUYS DOCTORS ARE HITLER TOO NOW DON'T TRUST DOCTOR- WAIT A NURSE MURDERED SOMEONE DON'T TRUST NURSES EITHER!

TLDR: Dont paint a broad brush over anyone, it doesn't solve the problem you just sound like a fucker who says all blacks are criminals.

[–]PM_ME_YER_CUNT0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ItWasDumblydore2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for not paying attention.

I'm saying it's not as big as the media and people are making it doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

Oh great video by the way

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=31772096

Someone called saying someone had a gun
Police asks him to stop walking and put his hands down on the ground
Turns around says "No fool and looks like he is pulling something out"
Figures out he doesn't have a gun and starts giving him first aid, saying "Stay with me, Stay with me buddy". Fuck that monster seriously fuck him and his family and his children for a civilian that possibly could've had a gun, when there has been a report of a gun. Where is his sense of humanity with his battle cry as he tries to give him first aid "stay with me buddy" this is Hitler shit.

Well thanks for shooting yourself in the foot.

[–]PM_ME_YER_CUNT0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ItWasDumblydore2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]ItWasDumblydore2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You said what happens if they don't give me the chance and just shoot, then I'm fucking dead. All of them get away? because three things on the news saying oh a cop shot someone and he wasn't convicted?

2012: Ramarley Graham, 18, was fatally shot in the chest by NYPD Officer Richard Haste in a bathroom of his home. Haste claimed Graham had a weapon although none were found on Graham's body. In 2015, Graham's family received a $3.9 million lawsuit settlement from the NYPD.

April 2013: In Marion, mentally disabled 40-year-old Melissa Davis was stopped when walking from one house to another. Officers Franklin Brown and Eric Walters unnecessarily shocked her 8 times with a taser, even after she was already in handcuffs. On April 27, 2015, both were sentenced to over a year in prison (Brown to 18 months) after pleading guilty to deprivation of rights under color of law. As of that time, a civil suit was still pending.

September 3, 2014: In Columbia, 35-year-old Levar Jones was wounded after being shot once and missed three times by Trooper Sean Groubert. Groubert stopped Jones for a seatbelt violation and asked Jones for his driver's license. After Jones walked to his car to retrieve his license, Groubert fired four shots at Jones, with at least one of the rounds being fired as Jones raised his hands in the air. Later that month, Groubert was fired from his job and charged with assault and battery of high nature. In February 2015, Jones was awarded $250,000 from a lawsuit settlement.

Ignoring it isn't the way to go, if you where paying attention I agreed with it. But blowing the problem up make it sound like every cop is a fucking murderer with no soul or humanity left in him, calling out to kill cops and their families, putting up bounties on cops aren't going to make the situation better as people paint the broad brush over all the cops because of the 0.08% isn't the god damn fucking solution either. Was the point I was making when I said that and adding clarification where that quote came from when he quoted me.

Or are you arguing the fact we should do all the above and harass all the cops because of the 99.92% who do their job and have nothing to do with the person who did shoot at the innocent person and put the blame on all of them?

[–]PM_ME_YER_CUNT-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ItWasDumblydore2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Right, so you agree we should also harass the 99.92% of cops who don't do these things? (two can play at not reading everything someone says, also it's hard to take you seriously with all the logic fallacies you manage to push out but guess what I still do.) But lets make this clear to you

My comment he quoted was posted because someone said cops are pretty much all murderous ass holes. That quote instead shows only 0.08% of them actually fatally shoot someone.
I said we shouldn't ignore this issue, but WE also shouldn't blow it up to the issue it isn't (aka the majority of cops are taken as soulless murderers doesn't help either) especially when the media pushes it to the point it causes civilians to now harass the 99.92% of cops who don't do this shit?

Extra: The Fallacies committed

Strawman/Special Pleading: "This mentality is toxic. "It doesn't happen that much, so its not so bad." These things are symptoms of a much deeper issue. Do we or do we not need to nip it in the bud?". This mentality is toxic, if it doesn't happen that much so it's not so bad.

Your trying to make a guy who's point saying police brutality is overblown not that it isn't a issue into something related to the argument. Your also moving the goal posts so your argument which has no basis on the argument of how often police brutality actually happens vs should it happen is two different subjects

Ad Hominems: "Jesus christ, you are thick" ". You are literally choosing to be as ignorant as possible about this. It is a legitimate problem, you are acting like it isn't. Denial is unhealthy." "idiot."

Why does your thoughts of how intelligent I am, or calling me ignorant for saying that it is a problem that has to be dealt with but we don't need to blow it up to the situation that people think all cops are murders is any good?. Denial is unhealthy then why did you deny my argument that police brutality doesn't happen as often as people think it does? Unhealthy because of how I think, are you just saying I'm not right in the head and how does that push my argument from being true... if a serial killer told you not to kill, it's alright to kill because it's someone who isn't mentally healthy in the head?

Loaded Question/Ancedotal: "Okay. Put yourself in this womans shoes. Now how do you feel?"

If anyone said anything other then horrible. They would look like they where in the wrong. What's the point of this other then to push your point across that it's a serious issue that no-one is saying it isn't? Also your cherry picking situations where people didn't get punished, in which I showed cops do indeed get punished.

Appeal to Emotion: Your points pretty much, Cops murdering people is bad, this has nothing to do with how often it happens and how much people blow it out of proportion.

No True Scotsman: "You are literally choosing to be as ignorant as possible about this. It is a legitimate problem, you are acting like it isn't. Denial is unhealthy.",

Don't fucking act like your better then someone ever... how I think isn't up for you to judge. Your not perfect person by name calling me which would be something you think the police do too I bet bullying everyone? And here you are trying to act better then me instead of putting a counter point too by insulting me.

Cop Brutality isn't as high as people think.
Cop Brutality is a problem, but it isn't going to be solved by treating them all like shit and soulless serial killers.

Cherry picking: All your links, keep finding sources that prove your point not that is a collection of things that go with and against your point.

Personal Incredulity: "Your walls of text are chock full of syntax error and typos, it is very hard to take you seriously."

So my arguments aren't to be taken seriously because of the errors? I guess since you made errors too I shouldn't take you seriously... no that's just pure fucking stupidity.

So you know what instead of trying to deal with your stupid argument of it's bad trying to appeal to nature and emotion, yes we all know a cop murdering someone is bad and we should try to solve the problem but that isn't the argument.

THE ARGUMENT IN BOLD SO YOU CAN READ IT

Do you think cops murdering people is being blown out of proportion when random cops are being killed and harassed for trying to do their job based of the 0.08% who might have abused their situation of power. Versus the 99.92% who haven't even killed another person? That is the argument... fight that and stop trying to push the argument elsewhere. I've answered your little sidetracked argument time after time but you just chose to ignore it.

[–]PM_ME_YER_CUNT-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ItWasDumblydore1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]ItWasDumblydore1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Useful content doesn't equal people looking at it, useful content would actually be answering is it alright to harass cops based off the 0.08%? I don't care if people read this isn't you tube where i get money of views, but in an argument i want people to actually put out an answer and not dance around the subject

Also do you even read what I was actually saying U/Anathema_Redditus was in the wrong for saying since it's a issue that has a 0.08% it isn't a big deal, I was saying your post was right and how he used my post to say it isn't a problem because it's rare is wrong let's look at the original post.

That comment was to someone finding alright to say kill cops because of what 0.089% do. So you agree we should slump 0.089% of the cops with the 99.911% of the cops who try to uphold the law.

None of these things are alright

All the things are issues but now we have a bunch of people think death to the cops because of what 0.086% do.

My quote he took was an argument based around the first thing I quoted there, not that it's alright because it's such a small issue, in which I said wasn't correct people getting shot by police is an issue, and the police getting harassed is also an issue.

Edit: Also for some odd reason

The fact that it is rare doesn't make it okay! I'm sure if you were the victim of police brutality you would be thinking differently.

has a +1 this whole time... it's almost like I was agreeing with you on that statement, and still do. I mean I can remove my +1 to show you how someone is obviously down voting you down to 0.

[–]friskybadger -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ItWasDumblydore 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1100, was the number of people who got shot by a cop in 2014, which is the number I put up there.

Also that link doesn't tell you a few things.

That cop was responding to a call with a man with a gun in the area.
The cop quickly proceeded to administer first aid after shooting and realizing he had no weapon and called for an ambulance, while giving first aid he said "Stay with me, Stay with me buddy"

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=31772096

If a cop has his gun out it seems the worst thing to do is tell him "No, fool" and proceed to quickly pull your hands out of your pockets facing him. That cop had a one second choice to shoot, with the information of someone having a gun in the area.

Again stop trying to appeal to emotion and nature by saying whether it's right or wrong. That isn't the argument and do you agree with the fact that 99.92% of cops in USA who don't do these things should be killed and harassed over the 0.08%?

[–]friskybadger -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Did I say that any cops should be killed or harassed? No, I didn't. But something needs to change.

Also, if you watched the video, the cop doesn't administer first aid. He puts and gloves and starts going through the man's pockets. If you listen, the cop sounds audibly annoyed that this man is dying.

I'm honestly aghast that you defend these portly trained policemen so vehemently. Do you not agree that the killing of an innocent and unarmed individual by a peace officer is an abhorrent act? Do you not agree that it is a police officer's job to protect the people, instead of acting paranoid and suspicious around them?

It's easy to spout statistics and say "it's uncommon for this to happen" when a police murder hasn't affected you personally.

The fact is, the standards for becoming a police officer have been greatly lowered as America's population grows, and the "cops protect cops" mentality prevents those who screw up from being properly prosecuted. A cop with such a hair-trigger such as the one in the above video should never have been given a badge and gun in the first place.

[–]ItWasDumblydore 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then you don't understand the argument of what I said, this isn't an argument of should it happen in which your trying to appeal to emotions and nature. We all agree it shouldn't happen cops shouldn't have to kill people. But I said that argument was about how often it happens, that it isn't a common thing happening every day the news makes it out to be and now cops are being harassed / killed / mocked.

Not all the cops who shoot at people are bad cops, they're people too and they want to live. So what are they going to think of the when someones not listening turn around and pulls his hands out of his shorts, when he matches the description of a guy wielding a gun in the area he was called in for?

There is many problems with being a cop.

Cops are constantly put into situations where they might have to make a life changing situation, and often can suffer from mental issues themselves. Cops have one of the highest suicide rates and kills more of them then felons do. (They have suicide rates close to doctors and dentists.)
Cops kill on average in the cases where they wrongfully do 42% are mentally ill. Possibly cops don't have access to training of what to do with mentally ill people and should get training on how to deal with common illnesses.
Cops protect cops isn't 100% true, cops will be taken to a court of law and be interviewed by his fellow workers. We see a few cases where they don't, but when on the news have you heard the names of people who got shot by the police? Once... Twice? A lot of the people where sued and a lot of them do go to prison. Usually for manslaughter instead of first degree murder. But I agree Cops should only have control of his job, the justice system will see if he commuted a crime.

I don't know if you guys are reading. I'm saying that this is a problem but not the problem it's overblown and have people mock and treat like shit because of something the 0.08% do. It would be like going through the mindset of a criminals listens to metal, ergo all people who listen to metal are criminals. I was putting what my argument was about when he copied and pasted it. As the person who used my comment said this.

How is it toxic? Police brutality IS very rare.

So my response was

That comment was to someone finding alright to say kill cops because of what 0.089% do. So you agree we should slump 0.089% of the cops with the 99.911% of the cops who try to uphold the law.

None of these things are alright, but people and the media are trying to make it seem like Cops are just this.

All the things are issues but now we have a bunch of people think death to the cops because of what 0.086% do.

My argument was based off cops being harrassed/ mocked/ and even in rare situations killed over the 0.086%. Not that it's alright because it's rare, not that we shouldn't deal with it, but it is to think not every cop you walk by is going to want to shoot you.

TLDR:

Cops seem to have a high chance of suicide, and also developing mental health issues?
We now have cops (who might have developed a mental health issue), who don't understand mental health issues and how to deal with them because 42% of victims of being shot by a police is someone with mental health issues.
I was putting my stats into context and it wasn't to support that "How is it Toxic? It isn't very rare" wasn't the point of my quote but "how we're harassing the majority based off what 0.09% of cops do." was the context for my quote.
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=31772096 >Look at this video<

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Title	Good point..
Author	live_full
Upvotes	1732
Comments	160
Date	June 4, 2015 4:55 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/38jfl7/good_point/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/good-point.978492 https://theredarchive.com/post/978492

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