Some thoughts, from a female. (supportive, NOT critical!)

Terraneaux · 2013-01-23T06:55:59+00:00

Hey, you can be critical of the MRM. Just back it up with facts and I'd say you've done us a favor.

Nice to see that more people are breaking away from the 'women=virtuous victims, men=evil victimizers' mindset.

Deansdale · 2013-01-23T05:51:34+00:00

They want revenge for injustices

"...they never even experienced personally," I would add.

Bukkake_Monster · 2013-01-23T05:16:22+00:00

Welcome! It's nice to see that there are still people who think instead of blindly following.

Be ready to be called hater and mysoginist though, lol

drinkthebleach · 2013-01-23T06:11:32+00:00

Obligatory plug for r/ladymras.

Welcome to sanity!

Amunium · 2013-01-23T10:42:57+00:00

because "men still hold so much power over women today."

I believe we're still waiting for an answer to what that power consists of. Anyone know? I mean, if I'm going to be punished for having it, I might as well take advantage of it, so if someone would be so kind as to inform me what this power I have over women is, so I can use it, I'd be much obliged.

CosmicKeys · 2013-01-23T10:02:27+00:00

Many feminist people I know are taking up this banner saying that there is no such thing as the friend zone Why do they say this does not exist?

Isn't it nuts to deny a social phenomenon so common it got it's own name? The only reason I give credence to is that they are simply unable to empathize with any issues a male might have, because to them it's effectively supporting their own oppression. Every men's issue is to be contorted until the issue has been well hidden and replaced with discussion about how it's an inconvenience to women.

fluxBurns · 2013-01-23T08:11:47+00:00

Welcome. I do think there is a need for women's rights that distinguishes itself from feminism, but the bad parts of feminism have co-opted women's issues and tried to make them into a supreacist movement while still claming oppression. Men's and women's rights are tightly intertwined.

MRM is not an effort to reduce women's rights (life and society can be injust to you also), we just wanted to be treated fairly too. There are some guy who hate women here, but most of us are normal guys.

Thanks for you post.

SuperUppercut · 2013-01-23T05:39:53+00:00

"Why do they say this does not exist?"

You can always tell someone's a liar if they refuse to admit they have flaws. First, because everyone has flaws and second, because lying is like building a house of cards. You know at any moment the whole thing could come crashing down so you get kinda paranoid and start denyin shit. In fact, a person's attitude towards self-directed criticism is an accurate barometer of their own integrity. How do feminists respond to criticism?

Aridane · 2013-01-23T10:19:13+00:00

Some thoughts, from a female. (supportive, NOT critical!)

You don't need to add the last bit - (supportive, NOT critical!). There are actually quite a few female MRAs (although we don't crow about the mere presence of them unless they're as vocal & awesome as Girl Writes What).

What would have put me on guard would have been "Some Thoughts From a Feminist" or worse, any traditionalist MRA with a "Back to Kitchen" post.

RedditBlueit · 2013-01-23T14:33:09+00:00

Many feminist people I know are taking up this banner saying that there is no such thing as the friend zone and I just do NOT get that at all. There is a friend zone, I have seen it. There are women who will GLADLY prey on the generosity of men to get what they want with no intention of entering a relationship. Why do they say this does not exist?

My experience is different. Most women I've talked about this with don't deny that other women have guys in a friend zone. Their understanding of it is, "this guy is her friend, why does he think they should have a romantic relationship?". In the abstract, the response is to shame men for getting frustrated, "You're not a much of a friend if you're just hanging around hoping to have sex!". The benefits the woman gets are expected - attention, emotional support, financial support. The guy is supposed to be happy to be allowed to provide them.

A_User · 2013-01-23T16:47:57+00:00

supportive, NOT critical

This isn't SRS - where all discourse is silenced and anyone not in 100% lock-step with their line is punished. Critical analysis and discussion is welcome.

There is a friend zone, I have seen it. There are women who will GLADLY prey on the generosity of men to get what they want with no intention of entering a relationship. Why do they say this does not exist?

Everyone has seen it. Mothers warn their sons about it. But today's Feminists will deny it because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I got further proof that many feminists are just trying to selfishly further their agenda of elitism when a friend of mine, a male-to-female transgendered person, was outed and harassed recently. There were feminist blogs that said that "he" didn't deserve the same rights and privileges as a woman because he was just a "sick perv trying to get attention." Insane.

I've seen this many times. Confront feminists over it and they will insist that this viewpoint is one of 'extremists'. I've yet to see MRA's treating FtM transsexuals the same way.

Seriou · 2013-01-23T07:15:27+00:00

My best friend is a mtf transgender. That's extremely unsettling how someone would treat someone like that.

ExpendableOne · 2013-01-23T12:59:43+00:00

Hi OP, thanks for sharing your experiences. Sonds like textbook stuff. Great you can see through these things! It's always uplifiting to read something like your post.

Some thoughts, from a female. (supportive, NOT critical!)

You know, we have nothing against criticism and discussion.

The problem we have is with people posting in this subreddit in hopes to generate angry answers they can then copy paste to /r/srs or /r/againstmensrights.

It really happens. Someone starts with something like "don't wanna fight, just want to hear your opinion on xy". And then they start to throw insults around. No discussion at all. And then they crosspost to an anti-mensrights subreddit.

For example this: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16btec/honest_question_why_do_you_folks_not_believe_that/

OP really puts effort in to sound like he/she was interested in a discussion ("honest question/ thanks for your time").

But is really not, gets insulting ("suck my titty/ loser /cry in a puddle")and then posts to /R/againstmensrights here, linking the "discussion":

http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/16bz5c/mras_are_so_fascinating_to_me/

That's why we are careful when someone says he/she is open to discussion. This is very sad, but it happens often.

That doesn't mean we are not open to discussion but we usually find out very quickly if OP is really interested in talking or just wants to "rustle our jimmies".

On the friendzone:

I think this topic is very important and interesting. And it is one where I really can't blame the feminists. It's just a misunderstanding of the term.

The problem is that some men really use it as "you don't wanna sleep with me. You friendzoned me. You are evil!"

Of course that's not at all what "friendzone" means.

I, too, have seen friends almost break in the friendzone thanks to manipulative girls/women.

American83 · 2013-01-23T10:59:10+00:00

Thank you very much or the post OP. this means a lot to us.

unexpecteditem · 2013-01-23T11:11:08+00:00

I don't suppose there was much point to this post..

No, that was a good post. Thanks!

OuiCrudites · 2013-01-23T05:44:25+00:00

Loud applause on all points.

Cheers!

AryoBarzan · 2013-01-23T05:55:43+00:00

And you're just scratching the surface of feminist bigotry...

Welcome Aridane! :)

CptSeaCow · 2013-01-23T06:18:21+00:00

I honestly think your last point is the most interesting. No matter how much they attempt to co-op the LGQBT movement there is so much bitterness against trans individuals. Trans men were banned from RadFem, and it just seems like looking at the actions of those who are famous for feminism seem really bigoted.

bunker_man · 2013-01-23T14:12:52+00:00

I do think this movement certainly does have it's own flaws too, but overall I think it's for the best to at least work for for it rather than feminism.

The main thing here and which feminists will never understand is that when they refer to the privilege of straight white males... they're not talking about all of them. They're talking about the tiny handful of alpha males who get ahead in life. The groups of fat white males, nerdy losers, introverts, etc... they barely even perceive those people as existing. Or if they do, they think it is uber easy for those people to just migrate to being alphas. In part because they don't want to have to admit that for a good lot of those, they have far less privilege than average females. Try comparing being male and highly introverted with female. The male is going to have a lot less social weight, especially around the opposite sex. Females will have males come TO them to make up for it. But rarely the other way around.

Try applying for a job while being introverted and male. Obviously they distrust you and think less of you for being less open. For females it is often expected, and so matters less.

The interesting thing is that a lot of uber-sexist alphas... The ones who they actually claim are the problem... a lot of self proclaimed feminists are actually DATING those people. For a lot of various reasons, ranging from them falling victim to the same upholding of people they think are better, (Note, these people can often come off as more on your side when they so choose.) to the same disliking of the spineless anyways, to the fact that those people are not going to whine about female privilege as much (Note, it's because those are the ones it does not harm.), to even the fact that much feminist attitudes essentially ignores other types of males altogether, since their existence does not make sense in it's internal context, so they feel little hypocrisy liking the same people they hate. (Or for those bigger on one night stands, that is simply the type of male they will run into more often.)

Just an interesting thing many ignore.

Feltern · 2013-01-23T06:16:02+00:00

This was really nice to read, I would like to thank you on behalf of many of us, and say that a little support goes a long way. Keep up the great work!

youngmufasa · 2013-01-23T09:37:07+00:00

People do not like to face contradictions. Even when theirs are pointed out.

Edit: That goes for anyone really.

DerpaNerb · 2013-01-23T13:37:03+00:00

Agree with everything except the title... even if you were critical... you would still be more than welcome.

gprime312 · 2013-01-23T15:09:01+00:00

Good to have you. Now spread the word.

ExpendableOne · 2013-01-23T16:53:48+00:00

They want revenge for injustices.

And what injustices might that be exactly? Because when I look back at human history, I still see men having it significantly worse overall than women(you're going to have a very hard time convincing me that being provided for, competed for, protected, cherished, supported and catered to, in nearly every possible way, is worse than having to die, compete, starve, fight and support women. you will also have a hard time convincing me to see women as having it "worse" because all these guys try to court them to offer them their time, incomes, lives, sexuality and intimacy for free; compared to men who are perpetually dismissed, starved, vilified and/or devalued). Which probably makes the feminist movement's obsession with misandry all the more disturbing. They justify countless acts of misandry and encourage subjugation based on a very warped, biased and/or misinformed perspective of history. Essentially encouraging prejudice with more prejudice. This would be like saying "I think all dogs are scum because a friend of a friend of mine once told me that dogs as just manipulative and opportunistic assholes". And people just accept or perpetuate this ridiculous idea of female oppression, simply because they wish to cater to women or desperate for female approval; which is in of itself an ironic proof of its contradiction.

kawaiigardiner · 2013-01-23T16:59:05+00:00

There were feminist blogs that said that "he" didn't deserve the same rights and privileges as a woman

I love when feminists undermine their own rhetoric by clearly stating what they're really about - special rights and special privileges.

2013-01-23T17:50:11+00:00

"These feminists don't represent all feminists, the true definition of feminism is advocating for social, political, and economic equality for both genders."

I wonder if feminists just copy and past the above quote since they have to say it so often.

AllenJacoby · 2013-01-23T17:50:59+00:00

I think this denial of the friendzone thing comes from an incorrect assumption of what the "friendzone" is.

Current Feminist Definition of Friendzone: Due to male entitlement, a man believes that women owe him sex, and so he performs deeds to get her to fuck him, and then calls her a friend-zoning bitch when she doesn't.
Actual Definition of Friendzone: One person falls in love with / has a crush on a friend, and that friend, either out of wicked manipulation or an inability to be frank about their feelings or out of a desire to maintain the friendship, "leads them on."

2013-01-23T14:05:34+00:00

Thanks for the support. Where many seem to mess up with respect to us is the assumption that we're trying to preserve gender roles, when in reality we just want to break down expectations of masculinity in the same way feminists want to break down expectations of femininity, and let people live the way they want to live. And also to live without blatantly oppressive laws which directly hurt one group over another. We'd be allies to feminists here, if we weren't judged by our trolls. Most real-world feminists I meet are sympathetic to our concerns, but recognize that their resources aren't going to be sent our way anytime soon. I don't see them as the enemy. I think we have a decent dialogue with feminists on /r/feminism (less so on more heavily moderated subreddits). Of course, there are always nuts and trolls among them as well, as you've noted.

Please, don't feel you have to justify your thoughts as 'supportive, NOT critical'--I'm regularly critical of the community when we're off, and we NEED to be criticized when we're on the wrong track to grow and become stronger. This can't be an echo chamber if it's ever going to accomplish anything.

J4CKJ4W · 2013-01-23T18:12:12+00:00

Not to ignore your post, but I wish as a female you could post here without fear of being downvoted just for being female. This subreddit is supposed to be pro-male, but not anti-female.

squaids667 · 2013-01-23T18:15:08+00:00

wtf just wtf i know there are problems with both movetments but wtf.

also being transgendered that last part reaally bugs me we hardly get recognized as it is.

entombor2 · 2013-01-23T18:30:05+00:00

I think the fact that you had to say that thing in parenthesis is a bad thing. There should be no question on who's opinions we are listening to.

tl;dr: keep the "female", remove the caveat, expect us to read it, and if we don't shame on us.

VaginalAssaultRifles · 2013-01-23T18:39:00+00:00

"there is no such thing as the friendzone"

I've noticed this recurring trend in feminism: there's no such thing as the friendzone, misandry isn't a thing because men have all the power, etc. They're trying to define out of the language concepts that they find inconvenient. It reminds me of Orwell's 1984: the goal of newspeak was to make it impossible to express seditious concepts.

CaptainDancyPants · 2013-01-23T19:07:40+00:00

Women like you are making this difficult by understanding our points of view. It's so much easier to just assume ladies can't understand logic, are driven by narcissistic saboteur shit-test instincts, and therefore have no place in law. But apparently it's more like 60-80% of women who are like that, and 20-40% of men, by my guesstimates.

Crimson_D82 · 2013-01-23T20:08:17+00:00

The so called oppression of women is overstated. For example in ancient Egypt woman had most if not all the same rights as men. They could divorce, own a house and slaves.

rollerpole · 2013-01-23T15:25:49+00:00

This "Battle of the sexes", so to speak, shouldn't exist. We should just try and be better Human Beings. Honestly think that would work much better if we were alll on the same page.

6inchpianist · 2013-01-23T19:31:19+00:00

Give me a room full of feminists and I guarantee that a large percentage of them would gladly subjugate and put down men for a few hundred years. It's not about equality, it's about superiority. They want revenge for injustices.

Unfortunately there are plenty of MRAs that run this same play from the other side of the field. I'm a little sad that you had to put the disclaimer in your title. I wish both sides could embrace constructive collaboration to evolve past the men vs. women competitive nonsense. Thanks for coming to see us in peace. I hope we return the favor.

Armagetiton · 2013-01-24T04:28:56+00:00

I got further proof that many feminists are just trying to selfishly further their agenda of elitism when a friend of mine, a male-to-female transgendered person, was outed and harassed recently. There were feminist blogs that said that "he" didn't deserve the same rights and privileges as a woman because he was just a "sick perv trying to get attention." Insane.

"he" didn't deserve the same rights and privileges as a woman

But... women don't have any privileges and rights according to feminists... wait... what... head explodes

Estephe · 2013-01-24T04:45:25+00:00

Fight back with info!

Check this out:

The Unknown History of MISANDRY - GREATEST HITS http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/search/label/Greatest%20Hits

You will be astonished how many lies you have been told by educators and by just how much of the history you learned is severely censored and distorted.

smalrebelion · 2013-01-26T01:13:03+00:00

Thanks for posting! Nice to meet you.

rightsbot · 2013-01-23T05:12:18+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Stratisphear · 2013-01-24T00:07:29+00:00

There are four types of friendzone (male interested in female). Both sides seem not to realize this.

Type 1: The woman is aware the man is interested in her, and uses this to get him to do things for her. She is taking advantage of him. This happens a lot, and women who do this are just bad people. When guys complain about the friendzone, this is possibly what they're taking about. The inverse tends to be a guy who sleeps with a woman for the sex while letting her think a relationship is more than just hooking up.

Type 2: The woman is aware the man is interested in her, but doesn't try to take advantage of it, and just wants to be friends. It's likely there's been a discussion, but the guy is probably still trying. In this situation, neither is the "bad guy". The woman is just trying to do her best in an awkward situation, and the guy, who should probably accept it and lay off, is still trying. Guys complain about this zone as well, but it's neither person's "fault". The inverse is pretty much the same thing with genders reversed.

Type 3: The woman is unaware the guy is interested, views him as a friend, and accepts his actions as friendship. This is most likely to be what guys are complaining about. They do things to try to attract the woman but never get the courage to ask her out. It should be noted: These men DO NOT BELIEVE THEY ARE OWED ANYTHING. They are doing these things to try, and don't believe she owes them sex or anything else. Very commonly confused with type 4, but very much different. The inverse tends to be a woman dressing up to try to make a guy "notice" her and ask her out.

Type 4: The guy is nice to a woman and believes that because of this she owes him sex. The guy is an asshole in this situation, and this is the one feminists think is all "friendzones". The inverse is a woman who believes that by putting out, she deserves gifts and favours.

The "friendzone" is more complex than others realize. When guys talk about friendzones, they are usually talking about type 3, trying to be noticed. When feminists complain about it, they think it's all type 4. Hope this clears things up.

Aridane · 2013-01-23T20:02:48+00:00

Careful folks... most of these are interlopers bent on making us more moderate... to dull our edge... to decrease our effectiveness... to come in, get comfy, amass lots of supportive MR friends, THEN start trying to change things from within the MRM like countless others have tried to do... To guide our message... to steer us away from our goals ... Just like wooly bumblebee tried to do. Telling men what mens rights mean and what we should and should not be doing and saying, then having her men/friends white knighting for her while she silently sits back watching the results...

Trust no one and question everything.

VaginalAssaultRifles · 2013-01-23T08:19:03+00:00

There is no such thing as the friendzone if you're too oblivious to realise you're a doormat you're just an idiot.

ShockScapes · 2013-01-23T17:32:47+00:00

Oh my god yes, I have hit the motherload. A heavily upvoted post on mensrights about straw-feminists, man-enslavement, and friend-zoning all rolled together. Thank you for this

whinemoreplease · 2013-01-23T06:14:22+00:00

You left a school instead of trying to fix things? Typical whore- you just run from your problems.

----HOLY SHIT IT IS A JOKE POST PEOPLE CHILL OUT----

Title	Some thoughts, from a female. (supportive, NOT critical!)
Author	Aridane
Upvotes	179
Comments	115
Date	January 23, 2013 5:10 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/173u9m/some-thoughts-from-a-female-supportive-not-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/some-thoughts-from-a-female-supportive-not.1604675 https://theredarchive.com/post/1604675

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