Unwarranted hate and hostility towards the MRM

avantvernacular · 2013-08-09T14:23:01+00:00

Apparently the MRM does not exist outside of /r/mensrights, as I just discovered right now.

IMULTRAHARDCORE · 2013-08-09T15:23:54+00:00

The MRM doesn't do anything in real life.

False. It's not a big movement so it's impact is limited but there are genuine activists who do what they can. There have been at least a few cases where the MRM has petitioned companies for sexist advertisements or judges for improper behavior. Recently the poster campaign "Don't be that girl" made a pretty big splash in Canada. It's not much but it's something.

You are relegated to internet forums and commenting on blogs or youtube videos because your movement is a joke.

We're relegated to the internet because feminists have made it politically incorrect to be "pro male" in public venues. Look at what happened to Erin Pizzey years ago, feminists killed her pet and drove her from her home with death threats. Look what happened at the University of Toronto just last year. Nothing has changed. Thugs with masks and sticks threatening violence and more just because anyone dared to have a public discourse that didn't conform to feminist narrative. Hell, the internet isn't even really a "safe space" for the MRM anymore if it ever was. Feminists will doxx any of us given half a chance and they are absolutely pushing us out of the greater part of the internet as evidenced by the recent changes made to Facebook and Twitter thanks to feminist activism.

When I asked the mods and prominent members of the MRM why they don't advocate volunteering, in old age homes, in homeless shelters, for suicide hotlines, they have no good answer to give me. If the MRM was legitimate it would do these things instead of pretending like they're a movement online.

Putting aside the fact that at least some people in the MRM do in fact do these things, who the fuck are you to judge whether the movement is legitimate or not? Is there some criteria that must be met? Exactly how many people need to volunteer their time on suicide hotlines and in homeless shelters before it legitimizes our message? My guess is it'll never be enough for you and that's why no one here gives a rats ass what your opinion on our movement is. Could we be doing more? Yeah probably. That doesn't delegitimize our arguments no matter how much you may wish otherwise.

Give me some facts. Give me concrete evidence of ANYTHING the MRM has done in real life.

I already noted the "Don't be that girl" poster campaign for you. If you're looking for change in legislation as far as I'm aware the MRM has never achieved such a thing. Yet.

Why don't feminists doxx MRM people?

They do.

Why is the MRM plastering the names of young women activists or feminists that disagree with them.

We don't. We'll call out criminals for their unlawful activity but we do not doxx feminists just for disagreeing with us. Obey the law and you can preach your hate as much as you like.

Why are the mods of mensrights constantly getting spanked by the admins for violating multiple rules?

The MensRights subreddit is held to a higher standard than most other subreddits. Especially feminists subreddits. You don't "get spanked" when you break the rules because someone high up likes you. Meanwhile if we step one toe out of line the admins threaten to shut the whole subreddit down. Must be nice to be so privileged.

Why is /r/mensrights and other MRM websites listed as a hatesite with the SPLC? Why aren't any feminists websites? Even Radfem?

As I'm sure you're well aware the SPLC did not list the MRM as a hate group. As for why feminists don't receive any attention from the SPLC, well the answer is simple. Money. The SPLC works for itself not for people. The whole "hate group" identification is all very subjective and meant to drive up fear and revenue. Scare people with a threat narrative and convince the SPLC does anything at all to stop it and people will flood the organization with money. It's a pretty neat scam. But I went off topic slightly, the reason the SPLC doesn't list feminist sites as hate groups is because it's politically correct to be a feminist. Even a radfem. If they listed even the radicals who want a male genocide as a hate group they risk the wrath of all feminists and considering so many of those same feminists are donators and people with clout, that's not a good idea. The customer is always right after all!

If your prominent leaders, the ones who have youtube channels and blogs, actually cared about the issues they constantly bring up, why aren't they putting the donations to their sites towards these issues? Why are they living off this money? And why are the MRA's so stupid to be paying these people to not have to work just so they can make comments online that doesn't fundamentally change or solve anything?

Something I'm not sure you understand is that the MRM is still relatively small and unorganized. There isn't a lot of money to go around to launch some kind of massive ad campaign and what good would that do anyone anyway? I'm not sure where you're expecting this money to go. And anyway most of the main figures in the MRM not only have jobs and do advocacy on the side but they do in fact donate to specific things when they come up such as the Brian Banks kickstarter or the Earl Silverman Center. Also money from blogs and youtube channels isn't all that significant. If you think anyone is living off a few thousand views on a youtube video or blog you're out of your mind.

saint2e · 2013-08-09T15:06:39+00:00

/r/CreepyPMs is a SRS-run subreddit.

I think that's all you need to know.

GenderEqualityKing · 2013-08-09T14:44:25+00:00

Just keep in mind one thing, though...part of what the feminist movement is able to accomplish (through lobbying, PR campaigns, advertising, etc.) is through FUNDING. Feminist lobbyists are VERY well funded and WELL established in DC.

Maybe if the MRM had the financial resources that the feminist movement has, it would have a better chance of instituting reforms, too.

TheSacredParsnip · 2013-08-09T15:04:28+00:00

I see the MRM more about raising awareness than anything else. When I joined over a year ago, we had 50k people here. Now we have 70k+ and a variety of subs. We have positive front page posts about us in several very popular subs, including bestof (where we're banned). We've become the focal point of many feminists and we're one of the only things radfems seem to discuss lately. In srsd the top three posts are about us and basically their fear that we're gaining traction. They joke about how little we do, but at the same time they don't seem to be able to get over us.

I talk to my friends a little about the mrm and the reception has been overwhelmingly positive. If we can start implementing more activism then that would be great. Right now, I'm more interested in increasing awareness.

ExpendableOne · 2013-08-09T15:04:21+00:00

The men's rights subreddit's stems from its ability to make people aware of these issues and in giving people a space to discuss these issues; both of which end up actually helping and informing countless individuals. Information is power, and getting people informed about what goes on for men is more important than any one instance of fundraising or protesting. Even if the men's rights one accomplishment was to dismantle feminism's scare tactics, bullying, misandry, misinformation and delusions, that would still be a worthy cause in of itself. Getting people educated and pushing them to care about men is "real life activism", and it is still considerably more than the feminist movement has ever done for men. This person may be completely dismissive and apathetic to issues that men face, and seemingly content to deal with the issues by simply "blaming the victims", but he/she is a perfect example of the importance of the men's rights subreddit/movement.

RationalSocialist · 2013-08-09T13:35:47+00:00

We discuss men's rights issues online because feminists have made it unsafe to discuss them in public due to false accusations driven by the same type of hate expressed by that person.

That person sounds angry and bitter and upset about their own personal failures. Like many feminists they are just looking for someone to blame for their own misery.

marauding-lunatic · 2013-08-09T16:38:37+00:00

/u/NoseFetish is a huge feminist (think SRS or radical feminist). One of the few posts of his that I read was so full of female victimhood and blaming of men that I couldn't stand to finish it.

The MRM has only gained traction within the last few years. Also, I think that people underestimate the power of spreading awareness, as well as the necessity of said awareness in order to accomplish the goals mentioned in the pic.

blueoak9 · 2013-08-09T15:07:29+00:00

It's a very good thing when your opponents misunderstand and underestimate you.
It's a very good thing when your opponents don't understsand themselves, as for instance when they both say you are ineffective and also scream about what a negative effect you are having.

The MRM needs to work on promoting this kind of confusion and cluelessness in its opponents.

Sasha_ · 2013-08-09T14:40:40+00:00

Well, thank you for this, but there's really no point arguing with feminists. The MRM does plent of real-life advocacy and campaigning - look at Fathers 4 Justice for instance or the work of A Voice For Men, or the NCFM, or the Indian campaigners who are incredibly active.

Ultimately though we're a political consciousness movement, so what the fuck volunteering in old people's homes would do I've no idea. The reason most people are in the fucking homes in the first place is because feminism pushed women into employment, creating the double-income trap and the need to warehouse old people and children.

TL/DR: This woman's just a fucking idiot.

MRB2012 · 2013-08-09T14:09:34+00:00

We use the names of feminists because that trick works. Taking secrecy from hate groups that rely on it is an effective way of destroying them. Look at what Stetson Kennedy (and his informant, and the writers of the Superman radio show) did to the KKK. Making sure that people like Vanja Krajina can never run from what they did insures that people will think twice about doing stuff like that in the future.

fred_burnstein · 2013-08-09T15:03:24+00:00

To quote minor threat "you tell me that I make no difference, at last I f**kin' tried" (unsure of community attitude to profanity...)

This is water off a duck's back. If you aren't pissing people off you're doing something wrong, and it is far cooler and easier to simply criticize the passion of others than do anything productive yourself.

2013-08-09T16:14:53+00:00

the thing is, MRM does advocate -- like feminists advocate, by petitioning politicians and making attempts to change policies of law.

THAT is why they hate us, because rather than waste our time on feel good actions (like tiny acts of charity), we are instead trying to undo the feminist system.

Nobody who disagrees with a movement honestly criticizes it for being ineffective. That is not an honest argument, because the person making it obviously doesn't mean it -- they don't want the movement to be effective. They just want an excuse to dismiss it out of hand.

Wrong_Opinion · 2013-08-09T17:16:37+00:00

Jesus christ, if you haven't been listed as a hate group on the SPLC then you don't exist, this guy is full of it. I'm pretty sure the Care Bears cartoon show is listed as a hate group.

Aaod · 2013-08-09T20:17:34+00:00

We do push for volunteering and in fact attempted to run a domestic violence shelter for men.... which was protested, had death threats/bomb threats, and lobbied against by who? FEMINISTS. Attempting to volunteer in mainstream society while identifying as a MR person? Not gonna happen people consider us to be akin to the KKK because of misinformation by a group of people... you know FEMINISTS.

Things we do? You mean like organizing having discussions and pushing for equalization of laws especially concerning family courts....that are blocked by feminist organizations? And SRS has doxxed people before as have various feminists. Both sides do it and it is a shitty practice, learn your history please.

Spanked by the admins? You mean the admins who one of them is a likely SRS member and we are actively disliked by them? Jee I wonder why meanwhile we follow the rules far better than SRS or other feminists subreddits do, just recently to prevent vote brigading we switched to .np links.

Legitmization:

Do you think the feminists were considered legitimate when they first got started? No of course not. Plus they didn't have a heavily entrenched organized group actively working against them as well as the system.

Donations:

Because a large portion of our members are young and those that are not young have had their finances ripped apart by divorce. This is like asking why you never get donations while at a domestic violence or substance abuse group we are where men go when they are at their darkest. We also don't get donations from the mainstream or the government unlike feminist organizations. I honestly do not know of a single leader who is living off donation money and isn't this like asking why feminist leaders like those for NOW draw a salary instead of donating it all to charity?

Look inwards how do you think a lot of our members found the MR stuff? They had to look inwards to figure out feminism is a giant scam and that it was not at all helping men.

Seek healthy role models. You mean the role models you protest call oppressors and say there are to many of in the mainstream media trying to replace them with females? Or do you mean fathers who due to the way feminists have pushed the courts are being kicked out of their kids lives? Or do you mean the males who might be good with kids and want to help them grow up but can not due to pedo hysteria caused by feminists?

tyciol · 2013-08-09T18:21:04+00:00

Some volunteering suggestions were made: (1) old age homes (2) homeless shelters (3) suicide hotlines

Sounds like an interesting idea, could we promote those in the side bar?

That said: even if there are some feminist organizations out there encouraging members to do these three things, I think they'd be in the minority because I haven't come across such suggestions featured with any prominence in the majority of feminist sites I've come across.

I think there are probably a lot of movements which don't go out of their way to do these three things yet still get respected as movements.

As nice and cuddly as those feel though, I don't feel like excluding anyone simply because they could give a fuck about an heroes, geezers and hobos. Not to be overly harsh :)

Seriously though, considering the majority of homeless are men, that elderly men are dying younger than women, and that men lead in suicide rates, these are issues we could focus on.

Also I'm wondering how old this comment is, I thought the SPLC took down the mensrights sites... or am I thinking of something else? I'm also wondering why what the Southern Poverty Law Center thinks is relevant to NoseFetish and whoever else moderates CreepyPMs.

They also seem to be ignoring that feminists have indeed dox'd men, I think that's actually why this subreddit and a bunch of others collectively agreed to block Jezebel and it's affiliates?

Those activists/feminists who were dox'd (I assume this refers to the listings on AVFM?) were not done solely for disagreement, but I think rather because they were illegally impeding people who paid to see a lecture from doing so, harassing people, joining up with a mob pulling fire alarms and slandering students and speakers and police alike.

Outside of those terrorists, could someone give an example of a feminist dox'd who was simply peacefully expressing their opinion and not engaging in criminal behaviours?

NoseFetish's objections don't seem well-founded here. Comments as if a government not recognizing a group must make the group illegitimate and lacking of merit. Never mind that historically, most of the modern embedded rights group probably all faced government opposition that they worked through.

NF claims that the leaders are "living off the money" but I'd like to know what supports this claim. While it's true that funds are being put towards funding web sites (and perhaps in part to compensate speakers like GWW for the time they put into making swell videos) I'm doubtful it's enough to "live off". I suppose if that were a huge concern they could put in some requests for transparency in totalling how much money comes in and what it's spent on.

Primarily though, with the stage the movement is in, it's more important to put the money in sites, speaking and stuff to make it grow. There is more long-term benefit to building the size of the base first before trying to milk it for contributors to broader issues. Better to spend some money early to build a thousand people into a hundred thousand people through spreading the message.

An error being made here too is sort of one of a broken window fallacy. Money put towards spreading information can prevent damage, but these are benefits not seen through focusing exclusively on where money is being spent.

NF erroneously thinks that this information might be 'better spent' elsewhere. But how? The information spread by these sites can reduce suicide rates, and help men financially (by avoiding losing their money through irresponsibly marrying) which will reduce homelessness. Better financial stability means they'll be better taken care of as elders.

NF didn't really elaborate on how money should be spent and how that would be a better way to do it than how it's currently being used and I hope they come here to explain that.

biffsocko · 2013-08-09T16:54:10+00:00

You should have written back to NoseFetish that she was absolutely right and that she should just ignore us.

In truth, MRM probably want as little feminist input as possible. I don't understand why we're worried about their approval.

In one sense, NoseFetish is right. We do need to organize more. We do need to demonstrate more. Thank you NoseFetish.

mynewromantica · 2013-08-09T20:59:37+00:00

I love the logic that because it is not recognized by other "legitimate" organizations it is not legitimate. All major civil rights movements started that way. Feminism, black rights, etc. That's why they are necessary.

DownShatCreek · 2013-08-09T21:21:00+00:00

You either live long enough to poison all you touch with hate and rage, or you stroke out in a rage and die an angry Internet feminist.

RPTestDummy · 2013-08-09T21:40:46+00:00

I'm currently taking a feminist history course, specifically looking at the 19-20th century U.S. The person who wrote this message doesn't seem to understand that everything could be reversed if we lived a century ago. Feminist groups were ridiculed, put in jail, silenced, called a joke, didn't have a public forum, etc. They were not recognized by the government until they demanded it. But of course, persistence prevailed. As of now we do not have a public forum (outside) but the internet provides the soil with which a movement could possibly sprout. We already see the proliferation of speeches and some forums on the topics at universities, so we are beginning to grow. Feminists didn't get their rights for years and years and years and years until men at their behest began to realize that something was fundamentally wrong with treating them as second class citizens, and worked towards changing legislation and Constitutional rights.

Take a look at Civil Rights. People in the 19th century were fighting for that, and even had a public space to demand answers and volunteer for work. It took nearly 100 years for efficacious changes to really enact. My only hope is that it won't take that long for our society to see some of the issues at hand for men.

dval92 · 2013-08-09T18:21:59+00:00

Why don't feminists doxx MRM people?

Appeal to popluarity. Also just blatantly untrue but w/e.

Why is /r/mensrights and other MRM websites listed as a hatesite with the SPLC? Why aren't any feminists websites? Even radfemhub?

Appeal to institution, popularity.

Actually, didn't the SPLC revoke its description of /r/mensrights as a "hate group" a while ago? Not that it would matter anyway, but still.

While I will agree that men need a progressive space to talk about issues facing them, the MRM is not it, and has done sweet fuck all for men for the past 5 years they've been a subreddit.

So a "progressive space"'s value is contingent on its activist activity?

Gee, I sure hope that information doesn't reach the great majority of feminist "spaces"! They'd throw a tantrum once they find out they're not a "space" anymore!

Jazzeki · 2013-08-09T17:12:09+00:00

i'm hardly even able to get mad at this because whille he lies and makes up shit to extreme extends he simply misses the point so fucking hard that i don't have a propor response.

When I asked the mods and prominent members of the MRM why they don't advocate volunteering, in old age homes, in homeless shelters, for suicide hotlines, they have no good answer to give me. If the MRM was legitimate it would do these things instead of pretending like they're a movement online.

Because the MRM isn't your local fucking church group. because the MRM deals with problems relevant to the MRM. that isn't to say those aren't worthwhille noble things to spend you timke on. but just like i wouldn't go work in soup kitchen if my goal is to save the whales nor will i to ensure rights for men are in place and upheld.

heck if this means the MRM isn't valid then feminism isn't valid either. but it isn't even based in truth anyway. i refuse to belive you can find anyone here or anywhere claiming to be MRM that somehow is against those things.

i haven't seen this guy advocate for those things either. he must be worse than stalin.

stemgang · 2013-08-09T17:58:08+00:00

Why are MRA's not funding a mission to Mars? Why are MRA's not supporting animal rights? How many irrelevancies can this poster invent?

2013-08-09T15:17:44+00:00

That person did have a point. Just imagine a situation where Govt.s and such supported MRM with money and such assistance. MRM do not have such a luxury now, MRM is working with limited resources.

Tralan · 2013-08-09T19:33:39+00:00

Fine. Then let's start a charity drive. I donate to The Hero Initiative, The Stiller Foundation, and Make a Wish regularly, as well as some other local ones.

We've tried to rally speeches and talks, but Feminists keep blocking us, then call it a joke.

I go to protests i believe in. I donate to charities I believe in. Not because of MRM or my gender, but because it's what I feel is right.

I do not donate to breast cancer foundations. Not because it isn't a legitimate disease or because it affects women. My mother is a breast cancer survivor. No, I don't because of all the cancers on the spectrum, it has the most support. When the Susan Konnen foundation loses their shit over leukemia, lung, colon, and prostate cancers, then I might listen.

DerpaNerb · 2013-08-09T17:21:46+00:00

Apparently the MRM does nothing... but then they also plaster the names of people?

OH, and they also brought up that whole SPLC thing... and then from there it's just like reading a list of Jezebels "things we don't like about the MRM".

But because they seem to think it's incredibly difficult to answer these questions, I'll actually just go through them:

Why don't feminists doxx MRM people?

Well first of all, what does this have to do with anything? I don't see how saying what feminists do or do not do is a criticism of the MRM. I'll also say that feminists have "doxxed" people (if you use their definition of foxx).

Why is the MRM plastering names of young women activists and feminists

I don't know why it's "young women"... just an attempt to try and make it look creepy or something. Secondly, if he's talking about register-her... I don't see how simply writing down the words that someone has said in public, and making an archive of it is wrong. If you don't like being held accountable for what you publicly say, then maybe that's a sign that what you're saying is wrong.

Why are the mods of mensrights constantly....

Implying that the admins have acted neutral and/or consistent at all...

Why is r/mensrights...hate site..SPLC

IT never was, SPLC posted their clarification.

2013-08-09T23:56:57+00:00

Sounds like an anti-suffragette pamphlet from 1890.

metsman913 · 2013-08-10T03:57:38+00:00

There was JUST a post on the front page discussing sexual assaults against men. I can't believe people would go back to this thought process so quickly.

thetinguy · 2013-08-10T00:17:32+00:00

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

iMADEthis2post · 2013-08-10T00:33:22+00:00

So basically men have issues worth looking at but fuck the men that have these issues and want a space to talk about them?

PubeNado · 2013-08-13T08:58:59+00:00

Told.

yokiatsu · 2013-08-09T17:43:17+00:00

Right after this I assume she opened up three tabs and went to tumblr, pinterest, and youtube to rant.

Eulabeia · 2013-08-10T02:38:26+00:00

The guy who wrote that is such a joke. He will look for any excuse to go on some kind of pro-feminism, anti-MRM rant. He probably does it because it's the only way he can get girls to even pretend to like him.

ickolas · 2013-08-09T17:21:53+00:00

IM YELLING BECAUSE IM ANGRY

poopyfacedtomatonose · 2013-08-10T02:30:13+00:00

I'm guessing this was from a man hating bull dike who oddly enough looks like a man.

Title	Unwarranted hate and hostility towards the MRM
Author	RationalSocialist
Upvotes	177
Comments	134
Date	August 9, 2013 1:29 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1k0vl8/unwarranted_hate_and_hostility_towards_the_mrm/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/unwarranted-hate-and-hostility-towards-the-mrm.1166772 https://theredarchive.com/post/1166772