What do we agree with feminism?

63daddy · 2022-06-12T12:56:40+00:00

Overall, egalitarianism and feminism are opposing ideas. You can’t believe women should be advantaged over men and believe in equality. These are contradictory values.

If I look back 60 years, I can find more common ground. Feminists supported the equal pay act, and I agree that was good, equal legislation.

Broadside_Beers · 2022-06-12T12:56:48+00:00

Feminism is an ideology first and a movement second.

Feminist ideology is predicated upon patriarchy theory.

Feminist patriarchy theory, which saw its roots in first wave feminism by virtue of of the declaration of sentiments (Seneca Falls, NY, 1848) and further codified by Kate Millett and various second wave icons, is fundamental to feminism as an ideology.

Feminism is not synonymous with women’s rights activism.

Feminism is not synonymous with egalitarianism.

Feminism is feminism.

We joke and laugh with memes about how feminism is essentially “man bad woman good” or “man bad woman victim” but we aren’t fucking around mate.

Men’s rights activism and women’s right’s activism love each other. Same vice versa.

The only people who hate mens rights activism, and by extension activists, are feminists

apopDragon · 2022-06-12T17:07:31+00:00

That woman should be able to vote, get an abortion, and not confined into the kitchen.

Chores should be split between men and women.

When dating, normalize splitting the bill (unless if there's a wealth difference).

Drunk sex =/= consent.

But the whole rape culture (teach your sons) + mansplain + manspreadding nonsense is dumb.

ThorpeRave · 2022-06-12T14:11:08+00:00

Nothing. Feminism has swung the pendulum in a very drastic direction and the only logical direction left for the pendulum to swing is the opposite drastic direction.

Contemplating the similarities between feminism and mens rights is an act of futility. I won't even touch on the male version of feminism (Masculism), because internet doesn't even think it's worthy to have it in their spelling register.

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-12T13:54:04+00:00

I don't think egalitarianism and feminism are anywhere close to being 'similar'...

I think anybody who believes in gender-equality would agree with gender-neutral laws, equal shared parenting laws, banning of all forms of infant genital mutilations (male and female), reforms in family court laws, non-bio parents and rape victims being exempt from hold support. And equal protection of all DV and SA victims irrespective of gender.

The truth is feminists have actively lobbied for gender-biased laws and opposed gender neutral laws in various countries..

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

https://www.britannica.com/event/Violence-Against-Women-Act

https://evaw-global-database.unwomen.org/fr/countries/europe/spain/2004/constitutional-act-1-2004-of-28-december--on-integrated-protection-measures-against-gender-violence

These are three examples from three different democratic countries and 3 continents. But there are thousands more.

Intelligent-Term · 2022-06-12T15:46:33+00:00

I believe that women should have equity in outcomes. That means their penalties/sentences for crimes need to match that of men. And deadbeat mothers need the same kind of animosity toward them as deadbeat fathers. I’m for true equality and not just the good stuff.

ignatztempotypo · 2022-06-12T16:00:50+00:00

That's easy, equality under the law. A merit based, not gender based playing field in all things official.

KamadoJonathan · 2022-06-12T17:01:08+00:00

I agree women deserve the same pay for the same job (depending) for example-2 teachers with a bachelor's, one teaches 3rd and the other teaches 4th, should be paid the same.

Now if we both work in warehouse moving boxes, if a man moves more boxes, he should be paid more, but that's not discrimination, that's just the fact he's stronger and can lift more or move faster, etc.

They should be able to walk down the street and not be cat-called or harassed. They should also have the right to choose, but the man should have the right to opt-out if they've been together for less than a certain period of time. Basically if your tinder date knocks you up, you shouldn't be able to force child support on him and he shouldn't be able to force you to give birth.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2022-06-13T03:27:12+00:00

I agree 100% with classical liberal/individualist forms of feminism.

When it comes to third wave/intersectional/SJW feminism, my only agreements are on pretty trivial things like "rape is bad." Well duh. But their entire methodological approach and theoretical foundation is severely broken.

ijustdontcare74 · 2022-06-12T13:04:46+00:00

As one other respondent has mentioned equality of opportunity is laudable and is worth fighting for, however modern feminism wants equality of outcome or more often, special treatment and privileges for women. An example of this is the demand for 50% representation on the board level, but refusal to do 50% of the menial, dirty, low paid work (such as sanitation, trash collection, oil field work) that keeps a modern society moving. It's this cherry picking that is most egregious to true egalitarians, either you want equality or you don't...you cannot have it both ways!!!

If women like the OP truly want to find common ground, they need to start calling out the bullshit of the radicals and pushing back......but I never see them do so, because at the end of the day, you benefit from the continued status quo.

ChadWolf98 · 2022-06-12T14:18:55+00:00

Equal legislation. If there is a place where women and men are not legally equal, then I am ok with whatever movement wants to make it equal. In west its mens right activists. In the middle east its probably feminism

skcuf2 · 2022-06-12T20:36:57+00:00

Women should have access to education.

13Lilacs · 2022-06-12T20:55:28+00:00

Bodily autonomy, parental leave, protection for children, elderly, and the infirm, an end to gender bias and toxic silly gender norms 'Boys don't cry" etc. "Girl's can't do math", etc.

geocitiesuser · 2022-06-12T22:28:47+00:00

I agree with almost all 1st and 2nd generation feminism. As in, I agree with true actual equality.

Recent generations of feminism are based on "equity" and "tilting the scales", of course women like it, it favors them! I do not believe in giving people advantages because of their skin color or gender, that is literally racism and sexism wrapped in a sparkly package. Everyone should have a fair and equal shot at life, no matter what they look like or how they identify.

rabel111 · 2022-06-12T23:25:51+00:00

Feminism is so fundamentally flawed and so based in misandry, there is no shared framing of men and boys that includes feminism.

Mythandros · 2022-06-13T05:32:11+00:00

There is really nothing to agree with feminism on. They don't support equality in any way. They make up stupid shit to vilify men. They think women deserve special privileges. Feminism is a hate cult. We have no beliefs in common.

Feminism needs to die off permanently, there isn't a single redeeming quality to feminism. Not one.

mikekh9 · 2022-06-12T15:49:00+00:00

Feminists sexually assassinated men and destroyed justice for men. What's wrong with them? What problem do they have with me?They give themselves the right to sue men, but they do not give men that right.

Aardwolfington · 2022-06-12T16:30:33+00:00

Honestly I'm a humanist. In my opinion feminism and other such movements are inherently flawed and selfish by nature. I do not think we can fight for these kinds of human rights as separate issues. Doing so by it's very nature makes them antagonistic and forces competition between each other. Not only does it do that, but by doing so it ensures those seeking into improve human rights never have the numbers or power to truly make a difference, while those in power play musical chairs with each separate cause never truly helping any and pitting each against the other for scraps and attention.

I cannot stand any rights movement that isn't human rights, where we stop pretending these are separate issues, and stand together knowing that if we leave anyone behind, we fail.

Jaxedai · 2022-06-12T20:47:58+00:00

I am starting to reject more ‘isms’ as they are being used as blunt weapons against people with no diagnosis or structured thought whatsoever.

An ‘ism’ is like a psychological net that tyrants use to snare their opponents. How about just being generally decent to other creatures as a start. At which point the use of ‘ism’ is no longer required.

Don’t let them win by justifying for 1 second that ‘feminism’ is anything other than what it was originally meant to be- a tool to get votes. Just like racism.

Start rejecting this garbage and things will get better for all. There is no need for ism when people are good to eachother

rm-rd · 2022-06-12T22:26:00+00:00

Feminism is the belief in equal rights, and the belief that women are the main victims of inequality. The first is fine, the second is stupid, outdated, and reductionist.

No-Satisfaction-2320 · 2022-06-12T22:43:47+00:00

We both agree that women should have rights, but not much else.

Al_Modir · 2022-06-13T08:30:16+00:00

I actually follow and support feminists from countries where women ARE actually systematically discriminated against and oppressed. Like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc… funny enough they are often also very critical of western feminists and leftists in general and quite vocal as well. I can go into a whole bunch a detail about this if anyone cares… but basically these people don’t really get to dictate the tone of feminism because it’s basically a movement by and for western privileged women and has nothing to do with actually trying to help women who ACTUALLY do need support and whose struggles are actually real.

Blauwpetje · 2022-06-13T10:26:51+00:00

That gravity exists, the world is round and 2+2=4? We may agree about evident things, not about things that need some deeper thinking.

DavidByron2 · 2022-06-14T03:44:21+00:00

A civil rights movement (MRA) is the exact opposite of a hate movement (feminism).

SubjectsNotObjects · 2022-06-15T15:33:31+00:00

Men and women have the same objective value (nothing).

Men and women should operate within a meritocracy and have equal access to education, employment and political expression.

There shouldn't be a pay gap all other things being equal.

Abigale_Munroe · 2022-06-12T13:39:10+00:00

Depends on the feminist. The type who believe women who commit violent crimes should be automatically exempt prison simply for being women seem the norm on r/askfeminists and twox. I can't imagine I have common ground with them.

AnOddTree · 2022-06-12T15:20:14+00:00

While I support a lot of femenist causes like bodily autonomy and more representation in politics and the workspace, I have always felt kind off about the concept of "femenism" because of the implied focus on just women. Since I was a kid and people would ask me if I was a femenist, I would reply that "I'm a humanist" because ultimately I believe in furthering human rights.

Honestly ....... the thing I think they have in common the most is a fear and hatred of the other. People don't realize it, but social media algorythems are prioritizing getting a reaction out of us rather than showing us what is true or furthering our cause. The result is that the worst voices are amplified for the sake of getting a reaction. So when you go looking at the other side, you see the worst of the worst because the algorythem knows that will upset you. It has pushed both movements toward vitriol and violence.

This is a misguided delusion. The true enemy of both groups is capitalism. A system that siphons off wealth from every working class human in the English speaking world. It's the hand of the state promoting "individualism" that places responsibility on men to pay for having a child on the premise of "health insurance" instead of just guaranteeing that child health insurance because both parents pay for it through taxes. It leads to a callous interpretation of the law that seeks to make someone "pay". It devalues the lives of men and views them as expendable for the sake of profits, both in war and at home. It devalues the domestic labor of women in the home. It takes advantage of both genders in these ways and has us blaming each other instead of demanding economic justice.

Past that, I would say bodily autonomy is the biggest thing. For women it's the right to choice weather to be pregnant or not. And for the men's side it's about MGM. I'm happy to say there are many women who are against MGM and many men who are in favor of women's choice in pregnancy. I think this is the largest solidarity between the groups.

Basketballjuice · 2022-06-12T15:55:11+00:00

Women should be paid the same and just as able to do the hard jobs

veedub447 · 2022-06-12T17:07:46+00:00

We agree with the TERFs that only women should play in Women's sports, that's about it,

thinkb4youspeak · 2022-06-12T17:48:23+00:00

Just use the term gender equality. There is no ambiguity about male or female rights, it's just gender equality. Feminism has tarnished their own name. Chauvinism is the guy version of that I think even though it has a few meanings. Gender equality is is under the umbrella of human rights, like how civil rights govern how humans with different levels of skin pigmentation should treat each other. There are too many facets and splinter faction hate groups nestled in both sides. Going with gender equality for all eliminates a need to distinguish value based on pants parts.

mcc9999 · 2022-06-12T18:31:59+00:00

That's like asking what does Nazism and Judaism have in common.

neetzuko · 2022-06-13T00:24:06+00:00

nothing. if they don't get drafted they don't get a voice

accurateConcept0 · 2022-06-12T13:19:16+00:00

That victimhood mentality is a productive use of one's time.

irrelevantmoniker · 2022-06-12T15:46:46+00:00

Trite but true response I think.

Both MRAs and feminists agree on the topic of women having equal rights and freedoms to men.

Where we completely disagree is women having equal responsibilities and accountability to men.

I'm not even sure where feminists believe the acceptable level of moral agency and responsibility is for woman. At times it seems they believe a woman rates somewhere between a small child and a landslide as far as their accountability goes.

xTheVyrusx · 2022-06-12T17:16:09+00:00

Realistically feminism doesn’t really have much ground to cover after the major push for equal pay. The equality over all campaign is just smoke and mirrors. At the heart of it accountability and responsibility fall short in feminism this is why the equality is flawed. You want equal pay? Sure. You can start working jobs with higher risk as well for higher equal pay instead of cushion office jobs or high ranking corporate retail jobs. The blame game is easy and both men and women do it weather we like to agree or not. I’ll agree when I see female teams picking up my trash getting jobs from the city or even recycling as well. I’ll agree when I see female electricians in a cherry picker doing power line work. I’d like to see more independent strong women in construction given a chance by companies. These are just a few examples of shit you’ll never see.

suicidemeteor · 2022-06-12T18:39:14+00:00

I believe that gender roles for both sexes should be broken down, anyone should generally be able to do what they want to do or are most talented at. If that means most mothers stay home because they're naturally better at childcare then so be it, if that means a 50/50 split in the workplace I'm cool with that too. Feminism is good with women's social roles but there needs to be recognition that men have social roles that do exist and can have an extreme impact on our lives.

Women are valued for their beauty yes, and women bitch and moan about this constantly. They seem not to realize that men are often valued for solely for their productivity. Women have it rough with being expected to be beautiful, yes, but men have it rough with being expected to be productive workaholics. As the saying goes women are sex objects, men are success objects. But feminism promotes the female perspective above all and refuses to acknowledge that men's issues even exist, let alone that they're anywhere near as important as women's issues.

Greg_W_Allan · 2022-06-13T07:18:51+00:00

There's so so many branches of it...

...all of whom point the finger at men. The correct term is "cliques".

...their ideals conflict with each other

Why would men ally themselves with an enterprise which does nothing but blame men and can't be coherent within itself to begin with?

TAPriceCTR · 2022-06-12T19:15:18+00:00

Hmm. That society was built by men. That's about it really

mikesteane · 2022-06-12T12:53:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-06-12T18:32:25+00:00

Feminism is currently in the process of Splintering. It’s a tell-tale sign of its impending and unavoidable dissolution.

It’s a primary reason I am and will continue to push for emotional temperance and adherence to our Basic Goals as Men.

Whether it be Biological or Sociological in origin we Men are prone to only Anger as our Achilles Heal. Whereas women are far more engaged in a broader spectrum of emotions which, as many of us can attest, can change on a dime.

This works towards the advantage of our movement so long as we stay the course, focus on attainable goals before moving on to others, and be the Generals of our feelings rather than their foot soldiers.

As for your original question OP: Feminism & Mens Rights have (much like most religions) a basic core that Humans should be treated both equally in some things and realistically accepting/adaptive for the unique skill sets both Sexes bring to the table creating a Whole Movement.

The more we squabble about who has it the worst. Or when we debase one another with petty insults one would find in a game lobby filled with teenagers we lose sight of our commonality.

And that is precisely what those in power want most.

Our distraction.

IcyTrapezium · 2022-06-12T16:01:52+00:00

In my experience men’s rights activists are usually misogynists or sexists. So typically they oppose pretty much all aspects of feminism for blindingly obvious reasons. Men’s rights “activists” do shed light on a few very legitimate issues such as infant circumcision, but usually it’s still used as an excuse to paint women or feminists as evil.

renthefox · 2022-06-12T20:51:51+00:00

There’s an interesting paper, The Unhappy Marriage of Marxism and Feminism by Heidi Hartmann 1979, that does a good job elucidating our sentiments about specific challenges as compared to the movement.

It’s worth a read. 👍 In short, the Marxist approach is one of no quarter, which leaves little i. The way of understanding or cooperation.

Here's the link to that paper. https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~hoganr/SOC%20602/Hartmann_1979.pdf

Yoramus · 2022-06-12T21:02:03+00:00

Let's say if you tell me that for the same work you should have the same recognition we agree.

If you say that Emmy Noether not being allowed to participate in University classes in 1901 because she was a woman was a really bad thing we agree. The same for any kind of education that was not provided to women and of course the right to vote.

To be fair, I don't think there are many people in Western countries that dispute this stuff, but sure bigoted people exist and I am firmly against bigotry, together with feminism if we are saying the same thing.

The whole tribal thing (it's we women that must fight against oppression by men, let's abandon logic and revel in victimism) I disagree with. Actually it doesn't matter how much I disagree since as a man they would never accept me as a peer - there is no possible dialogue here.

In fact has there been a single situation where tribalism in sex/race terms has been a good thing, ever?

The whole idea that *people with some physical characteristic* are the oppressors and must be fought is so revulsive to me that I just automatically ignore all that rhetorics spit out by feminists these days.

Anih1list · 2022-06-12T21:04:03+00:00

Given there’s like a million sub-branches of feminism, I’d say I agree 100% with some feminists and 0% with others.

Necessary-Affect-214 · 2022-06-13T09:34:45+00:00

Algorithmbuilt · 2022-06-13T09:37:54+00:00

No man nor woman shall infringe upon my rights

silent_boo · 2022-06-13T09:53:16+00:00

I think that the whole enterprise of feminism from start to finish has been fueled by resentment, delusionary hysteria and undue feelings of unfairness. Just because the hydra has sprouted a hundred more heads doesn't mean they aren't all still attached to the same corrupt corpus.

Dirk_94 · 2022-06-13T11:53:43+00:00

I think mens and womens rights agree men should be able to wear skrits.

ultimate_smash · 2022-06-13T18:26:07+00:00

Feminism nowadays is all-out anti-men movement. They care more about male-bashing than even helping other women

PactScharp · 2022-06-14T09:43:54+00:00

"What do we agree with feminism?"

I speak only for myself because I don't see myself as an MRA... but to answer the question: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You might think that's an extreme position, but I don't think so... Obviously I agree with the idea that women deserve equal rights, that a balanced division of domestic work is fair, that violence against women/girls is wrong, and so on... but these aren't "feminist" beliefs or principles inherently. Feminism doesn't get to claim on monopoly on any of these values. You can reject feminism & very much still agree with the aforementioned points.

What really matters here if you as what "we agree with" is what feminism *exclusively* claims. And that concerns the ideas surrounding "patriarchy", "toxic masculinity", "female oppression", "mansplaining", etc etc. These are feminist-specific beliefs & as far as these things are concerned, I don't agree with ANY of it.

What do we agree with feminism?

Comments

KILLALLMEN. Author of this hate speech is feminist icon and successful author.

Title	What do we agree with feminism?
Author	comatose_papaya
Upvotes	72
Comments	212
Date	June 12, 2022 12:46 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/val93o/what_do_we_agree_with_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-do-we-agree-with-feminism.1116291 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116291