Do women encourage nice guy behaviour?

GridReXX · 2016-08-05T13:44:14+00:00

Nice behavior will always be encouraged.

People typically reward nice behavior by being even nicer to you and doing nice things for you as well.

The problem is that in many people's minds "niceness" should be rewarded with "attraction" or "lust" or "romance" or "sexual favors."

When really if you're nice to me I'm simply going to say thank you and maybe remember to bake you some cookies or something.

edit

This is why men and women have to provide the "sexy" and the "niceness."

The sexy makes me want to fxck my SO. The consideration makes me want to bake cookies for them.

Both together make me feel "madly in love."

Because there are plenty of men who I find attractive who I wouldn't waste a modicum of energy cooking dinner for because they're assholes who don't deserve.

And then there are sexy and considerate men who could "get it" and also get a nice warm meal.

And then there are men who are "only nice" who I feel inspired to do nice things for; however they don't inspire any sexual attraction from me.

Sandralees · 2016-08-05T13:46:40+00:00

This is a Catch-22 situation. As a woman you can't win a situation where one person does unsollicited things for you.

If you have no idea why he is doing it and in your heart you believe he is a friend and acts selflessly, then you lead him on and you're a bad person.
If you suspect there is an undisclosed motive, and you proactively reject him. Then you're a bitch that hurts people and you're a bad person.
If you suspect there is an undisclosed motive but you do not act on your suspiscions and keep talking to him as a friend, then you have an orbiter and you are a bad person.

My stance is that when those situations arise, it is up to the person who experiences the unrequited love to make the right decision for her/himself. No-one is forced to respond favorably to your feelings.

exit_sandman · 2016-08-05T15:30:16+00:00

I do believe that a less extreme version of 'nice guys' exist. People who believe that being nice entitles them to sex.

It's more that these guys believe that being doting, devoted, attentive, and pedestalizing is attractive, and that when a woman accepts that courtship treatment, she's also under some sort of obligation to seriously consider that guy as a romantic prospect (i.e. a covert contract). This goes even moreso for guys who are socially awkward and nerdy - or, how I wrote in the thread I just linked

My personal theory is that introverted (and among them especially the nerdy) types are most prone to set up covert contracts. They see the world through a lens of cause and effect - their mode of thinking is "if I do X, I'll get Y".

I'd wager that the share of guys who react poorly to a woman who has basically rejected them from the onset (not necessarily through words, but simply by not accepting their courtship, i.e. keeping their distance) is minuscule. They're disappointed, but since they didn't get to do X in the first place, they also don't expect Y to happen.

alreadyredschool · 2016-08-05T12:10:02+00:00

Everybody wants to think that they are good humans (i.e. not shallow). There also is the concept or inner beauty which clouds the conventional advice, so it's not just women who encourage that behavior. (Thank god that inner beauty is a bunch of bullshit or else I would be an incel)

Men love to think that they got the girl because of their great personality, it's a reality denying believe. Most men are ugly, so they WANT to believe that it can work if they only have a good personality, it's a comforting believe.

Women want to pretend that they don't care about looks, they want to think of themselves that they aren't shallow. There also is social pressure not to be shallow (somehow that word became the worst thing a human could be), so to keep face they don't show their shallow side.

gasparddelanuit · 2016-08-05T14:41:53+00:00

Men feeling entitled to sex because they are nice is not a thing. It's a false feminist trope. Desiring sex is not the same as feeling entitled to it.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T13:02:49+00:00

Mothers and teachers encourage nice guy behaviour. Feminists and women on /r/niceguys indirectly encourage guys to become douchebags. Reap what you sow I suppose. Probably the same woman that will act surprised when their partner beat them but at least they didn't end up stuck with a "NiceGuy^TM neckbeard".

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2016-08-05T12:30:35+00:00

People who believe that being nice entitles them to sex.

I think that's kind of a rarity as well. I know of no one who believes that being nice entitles them to sex. A nice guy might be looking for a relationship which might entail sex (eventually), but to suggest that they put in all that time and energy just for a quick pump-and-dump just doesn't make any sense.

I think "nice guy" behavior might be encouraged on a societal level, as a general default of how men are expected to act. Some might also call it "being friendly" or simple human decency.

However, some people are quite cynical and jaded, and as a consequence, they interpret every friendly, decent, or selfless act from someone as something to be suspicious of. That's what I see in women who constantly trash "nice guys," as if they see an ulterior motive and something "evil" behind every random act of kindness.

thecubs · 2016-08-05T14:12:01+00:00

I think women encourage nice guy behavior out of their children, not out of their peers. This advances the narrative that the mother, as a woman, is a virtuous person who definitely did not choose their partner because of looks and utility. In reality, looks and utility are the driving selectors for both genders whether or not we care to admit it.

It is literally all that I was exposed to growing up that you are just so nice that you win the woman over. The truth is of course, that if you have to put that kind of work in to win someone over that you are wasting your time. The effort that you spend in that venture is better expended in improving yourself, then your relative value increases to the point that you attract more interest from others, and choose from among them rather than having oneitis.

OfSpock · 2016-08-05T12:29:50+00:00

A lot of people become very talented at using social mores largely so other people can't criticise them. Nice guys are a subset of this. See also: people who say things like 'I was only trying to help'.

You can't yell at these people to go away because then you look like the monster, you just have to give them hints and hope they get them. Usually they don't, you have to be polite and deal with them and they always wonder why no one really seems to like them. Some of them wander around in a fantasy world where everyone loves them except a jealous few.

If you do yell at them, they burst into tears (women generally) or become violent (men generally).

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T15:08:21+00:00

Yes, of course women encourage "nice guy" behavior. Women do this for many reasons. Some of it is innocuous. It's intended to avoid causing unnecessary pain for a guy she knows she will never fuck. Most of it's intended to avoid awkward communications with a guy she knows she'll never fuck. So she encourages "nice guy" behavior hoping he'll get the hint and leave her alone. Plus, women say they fear violence and unbridled anger if they reject men. I think that's bullshit and a relic from a bygone era; men just don't react violently, rape women who reject them, or take women by force. Just doesn't happen, and it's another female hyperreaction that no longer has any basis in fact.

Women communicate with each other like this all the time -- covertly, hidden messages, etc. And they get it. Women communicate with men like this thinking that men will get it like women do. But many men do not, because men are more overt communicators -- say what they mean, mean what they say. When a man doesn't want to date a girl, he says "I don't want to date that girl". When a man doesn't want to fuck a girl, he says "she's not fuckable to me". When a woman doesn't want to date a man, she says "I don't know." When a woman doesn't want to have sex with a man, she says "he's a really nice guy, but...."

And women say "never change, you'll find a great girl one day" because they just want to avoid awkward discussions, really. If she were really interested in you she'd be touching you and all over you, not talking about what a nice guy you are. Remember that whenever a woman says "you'll find a great girl someday", here's what she is really saying:

"I do not now, nor will I ever, want to fuck you. Ever. Maybe you'll find someone else who does. But that's not going to be me. So stop hanging around me and please go the fuck away and leave me alone."

Women don't want to be fucked by nice guys. Women want to be fucked by masculine men who know who they are, know what they want, and take what they want.

So yes, women do encourage nice guy behavior.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T14:14:30+00:00

[deleted]

Soycrates · 2016-08-05T14:38:48+00:00

Women encourage men to be nice because it's... nice to be nice. Like, what the fuck else?

We don't encourage men to be nice on the promise of sex.

czerdec · 2016-08-05T16:36:57+00:00

I think you are wrong about "a lot" of men believing that niceness entitles a person to sex.

I think you won't find one man in 150 with this belief.

This is empirically testable. Simply interview 1000 men and present them with this scenario: A male neighbor does some favors for your mother. He would like your mother to have sex with him in return for those favors. He never made an explicit deal with your mother to exchange favors for sex, but he wants and expects sex anyway.

Do you agree that your mother is obligated to have sex with this man?

I very confidently predict that the number of affirmative replies will be extremely low.

The number of affirmative replies will be similar to the number of affirmative replies to the question "Is Janet Yellen an extraterrestrial lizard?"

Ultramegasaurus · 2016-08-05T16:55:50+00:00

Whole cultrue does. This whole "women are better people and have no unflattering instincts" dogma is ingrained deeply into people's minds. Saying women are attracted to dominant or rich men is considered offensive.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T17:56:37+00:00

I think that it must be difficult for women not to encourage this behaviour by, at the very least, passive tolerance.

It's not like you can call someone out for being ''nice'' without coming across in a bad way.

Even if she feels that the niceness is insincere or obsequious, it would be a social taboo to confront him about it, if he's in her friend circle.

CrazyTom54 · 2016-08-05T18:20:51+00:00

Being nice is encouraged.

Being a nice guy is never encouraged. That just means that secretly you are an asshole and being nice is never your true nature.

If you can genuinely be nice and expect nothing in return, you can easily gain the trust of others and they in return will be nice towards you. It is a never-ending cycle of love

meh613 · 2016-08-05T19:29:22+00:00

The reason for this, in my case, was pointed out by a therapist one session. They said, "you have aspergers and that means you take things literally, but in this case never change. One day you will find a great girl translates to I wish you the best of luck".

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alcockell · 2016-08-05T12:48:42+00:00

A lot of the behaviour slagged off on /r/niceguys was explicitly taught through the Purity Movement strand. from james Dobson, through Josh McDowell, Josh Harris, Madonna/Whore was doubled down on in Every man's Battle...

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T13:47:00+00:00

Do women encourage nice guy behaviour?

Won't say encouraged but more so demanded, but its more the gentleman nice guy (ie opening doors, paying for the date) sort of affair.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T14:00:21+00:00

These days they bash nice guys for being entitled, so I guess no.

"Never change. One day you will find a great girl. You're such a nice guy"

They say that to not make you feel like shit because of the rejection. It's supposed to be a polite white lie.

SkentyDooBabble · 2016-08-05T15:25:20+00:00

By the way....

There's a difference between being "nice" and "polite".

"Polite" in today's parlance means more or less "not a total asshole".

Men should be "polite" going through their daily lives. They should be assholes to people who deserve it.

I suspect that when most people talk about "nice", they mean much, much more than "polite". There seems to be an expectation among most women that most men will be more than "polite". Most women will expect men to do things for them, lift heavy things for them, retrieve things at heights for them, help them with mechanical things, help them with work, and protect them from dangers real and perceived.

Men should not do any of these "nice" things for any woman he's not related to or not fucking. Men should be "polite". But they are under no obligation to be "nice".

winterrider · 2016-08-05T19:19:48+00:00

Women and manginas do encourage it. There is in truth nothing wrong with being nice. The problem comes about when Hollywood, women, manginas and male feminists push the idea that if a woman wants to have a relationship he should be nice to her. Men get this message, assume it is true, do all these overboard things for her and nothing ever works out the way they expect.

[deleted] · 2016-08-06T03:48:06+00:00

A lot of women sadly encountered violent men and are rightfuly weary of men, so what they do is to let the guy down gently as much as possible instead of being honest with the dudes. I never bend backwards over female friends or girls I was interested in. I've always been pretty cut, either yes or no. I know that every girl I came across in my life has given it up for free and instantly for alphas, so if a girl doesn't want to have sex with me right away, I know she is not sexually attracted to me.

lbspredh · 2016-08-06T08:04:34+00:00

Are you sure you were a "nice guy" rather than just a nice guy who sucked at talking to girls?

And anyway the only way to truly reinforce such an attitude is to have sex with the guy just because he was nice

aanarchist · 2016-08-06T22:50:50+00:00

the pattern is they keep nice guys subdued for as long as they possibly can, like keeping them strung along. the behavior that is actual encouraged is sociopathy.

Title	Do women encourage nice guy behaviour?
Author	hairer
Upvotes	17
Comments	327
Date	August 5, 2016 12:01 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4wa19v/do_women_encourage_nice_guy_behaviour/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-women-encourage-nice-guy-behaviour.273724 https://theredarchive.com/post/273724

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