How real is hypergamy?

SherbertBacon · 2020-09-01T08:26:57+00:00

Well the technical definition of "hypergamy" really just refers to "upward class mobility" wherein women tend to marry "up" if they can. There's nothing shocking about that, given that men and women tend to value different things in relationships.

The way RP uses "hypergamy", though, is just actually true of, well, everyone. It's rational behavior to leave a relationship when the cost vs. benefit analysis of leaving yields greater benefit than staying. Whether it's abuse, a partner stops taking care of themselves, the care-taking needs become to great, the death of a child makes memories too painful, emotional neglect, financial irresponsibility (and so on), the nature to leave is inherent.

That said, I think TRP over-exaggerates why a woman would find cost vs. benefit of leaving/branching greater than staying. And pinning the word entirely on women ("because it's about men dating women!1!" yes, I know the silly response already), strikes me as incredibly odd.

rubbooyuri · 2020-09-02T03:01:03+00:00

All “hypergamy” means is that she can leave your ass for being a lazy, complacent shit —- just like you can leave her for getting fat or old. Wah, I don’t feel sorry for you guys. Turnabout is fair play

Suck-Less · 2020-09-01T10:08:26+00:00

Hypergamy doesn’t mean that she will uncontrollably walk away because some other man makes $1/hr more. It means she will pay attention that other men make more ... that her men makes less and therefore is less. Hypergamy doesn’t mean that she has to leave him because she got a promotion, it means that she will see him as “not stepping up.”

Want to see Hypergamy in action, suffer through watching some boy band concert and pay attention to the women in the audience. How easily they loose their minds. Pay attention to the difference between how women treat you in a suit or jeans. Pay attention to how quickly a date try’s to assess your net worth and status. Look at a social gathering and see what kind of man attracts the most women.

Hypergamy isn’t as much about money as it is about: the other guy can do what my man cannot and what she cannot.

It’s why the apex fallacy is so prevalent amount women. They are hyper focused on the top percentage and respond with disgust when seeing the lower percentage of men.

VariationBusiness · 2020-09-01T12:41:56+00:00

Also I can see a situation where she leaves the guy because he is lazy, doesn't give her enough attention, and isn't passionate about anything.

Not true. These are usually the rationalizations for leaving after she has already locked down a superior man.

I've seen women stay with absolute bums who are dickheads, where even she pays the bills, and is perfectly happy and would never leave because she still sees him as the most attractive man she can get.

I've also seen successful guys be called "not ambitious enough" when he makes $120k cause the coworker she left him for makes $200k. When she sees another male as attainable, all of a sudden her current partner will have a ton more faults even if they're not true.

Women who leave a relationship to be single and alone are truly the exceptions to the norm when it comes to break ups. There's almost always another man in the picture.

The only other scenario which sometimes plays out is if she is the only one of her girlfriends in a relationship. If all her friends are single, recently broke up, or even in middle age all her friends are divorced, she does run the risk of being excluded from the group and those friends will run psy ops to get her to break up with her man so they can all be single girlfriends together.

Zippo-Cat · 2020-09-01T09:43:18+00:00

The idea of it makes sense but if this were the case every guy would be insecure about where they stood status wise. Probably would even be hesitant to get into a relationship.

Most men don't know about hypergamy and most of those who do know about it actively reject it. We also have a thing called ego which makes us not constantly question ourselves.

Maybe if she's single and trying to pick one she likes the best that makes sense but I don't even know if that's hypergamy.

It's the most important type of hypergamy.

If I was doing well but another guy was doing better I just have a hard time believing girls will dump you just because of that.

It's not as clear cut as TRP and you make it out to be. First of all there are degrees to this - let's say you find exactly same job that pays 5% more, but it's in a different state. Would you change your job knowing you will have to move to a different apartment, you'll be joining a company full of people you don't know, you will lose contact with all your friends where you live, you will never eat at the super good local chinese restaurant again, etc.? What if it paid 10% more? 15%? 20%?

Second of all terpers have a bad habit of attributing agency to things that happen almost entirely organically, and "branch swinging" is definitely one of these things. It's not like women make spreadsheets where they compare pros and cons of every male in their life they want to date. A woman who will meet a better man will, above everything else, first lose attraction to the man she is currently with. Even though it's exactly the same man she started dating, her perspective will shift and she will start viewing him far more critically. Suddenly his bad jokes will be really bad and not funny bad, suddenly his hobbies will start taking "all" of his time, suddenly his affection will not be affective enough, suddenly the sex will be bad("and why is he asking for so much sex anyway, am I just a fuckdoll to you"), and so on. As you put it yourself, suddenly "he is lazy, doesn't give her enough attention, and isn't passionate about anything". Even though he apparently wasn't any of these things before.

People who don't know anything about human sexuality call this "growing apart" and treat it as normal part of dating. And it is "normal" in the sense that it happens to most people, because women truly don't care for most men. But no, relationships don't just suddenly go sour for no reason - nothing happens for no reason, if you can't see the reason then you just lack information. And that reason is often hypergamy(or love, or rather end of it)

If they did then she probably wasn't the right girl in the first place and she'll keep playing other guys to.

That's just sour grapes, don't give me that shit dude.

Brainless-Wonder · 2020-09-01T12:25:11+00:00

As someone who extensively studied evolutionary psych and social psych in college, and has been a history buff my whole life, I roll my eyes into the back of my head whenever I hear about the way they discuss hypergamy. Sorry, I hate sounding like Adam Ruins Everything, but they’ve got a lot of this wrong.

Hypergamy is based on a dated concept used to describe the Indian caste system as it was described and implemented in the 19th century. Why do they insist on resurrecting old standards from a RADICALLY different society than that of the modern liberal democratic West, and transplanting them here? It reeks of confirmation bias to explain away why they’ve been romantically or sexually unsuccessful with a handful of women who may have one or two characteristics in common.

If women really only go for higher earners than them, then how do you explain why some women insist on staying with deadbeat losers? They’re likely to go on about how women are also attracted to Dark Triad traits and what have you, but still, this is not really hypergamy if they’re well, deadbeat losers. I come from a meth/heroin town, believe me when I say those drug dealers get laid and have plenty of baby mommas and even committed relationships, but aren’t exactly swimming in as much cash as you’d think. They really are low, low people on the social ladder, and a lot of them either refuse to get “legitimate” jobs or squander their opportunities, but that doesn’t stop them from swimming in sexual options from even some women who have more options than them (the local university crowd). They will then start to go on about how Dark Triad reflects a “social desirability hierarchy” etc., but by then their framework of hypergamy begins to approach unfalsifiable turf.

I also know how this next statement is going to be met with here, but in my life I’ve known quite a few women who earn more than their spouses. When I was growing up, one of my parents’ closest friends was a higher-up in a union who was pulling in six figures before her husband. His small business eventually got off the ground and is now successful, but for a while her income eclipsed his. This is not the only scenario of the sort that I’ve known. I’m Latino; it’s not uncommon for men to be in trades while women to go to college now. Not all of these college-bound and graduating women are exclusively going for millionaires. As a matter of fact, quite a few still find the trades workers to be plenty viable and attractive options.

I would argue that the explanation for this facet of attraction is much more mundane than what TRP’s concept of hypergamy would grant you: It’s likely more that women are particularly attracted to a man who appears competent and authoritative in whatever he does. It indicates drive and passion, and those are often indicative of a man who will stick by someone for a longterm partnership and potential child-rearing. Yes, I understand that social norms, feminism, and birth control have changed much of the sexuality and attraction dynamic, but remember that this biological machinery we possess is still made with that functionality; our social norms evolve much faster than our biological drives.

Undoubtedly a few women will of course be motivated by income. Gold diggers and clout-chasers are very real. But for those of us not in the upper crust of society, this probably doesn’t reflect the norm.

Tl;dr: Hypergamy is a very outdated concept taken from a radically different culture in another century, and only explains very surface-level differences in mate choice.

badgersonice · 2020-09-01T16:29:44+00:00

Hypergamy as used by RP is mostly a projection of their need to feel validated. They want all women to be hypergamous by their definition, because if a woman will only have sex with man superior to herself and all other men she's met, then he gets to feel like he's a superior man.

This is why some of them hate sluts so much: sluts are women who have sex with many other men (which in RP lingo means those other men are superior). If she won't have sex with the RPer in question, then he interprets that to mean he's fundamentally inferior in every way to every other man she's had sex with. Likewise why some of them are so obsessed with virgins: if a virgin has sex with him, he takes it to mean that he's literally the only man she's ever met worthy of being alive.

A lot of them just read way, way too much personal validation into sex and rejection based on a projection of their own need for validation and approval.

decoy88 · 2020-09-01T07:59:56+00:00

Hypergamy is a term used in social science for the act or practice of a person marrying a spouse of higher caste or social status than themselves. The antonym "hypogamy" refers to the inverse: marrying a person of lower social class or status.

Source

This is the ONLY meaning. Everything else is what u/poppy_blu said

Maha_ · 2020-09-01T09:17:59+00:00

It's a weasly and often irrationally posed catch-all.

Hypergamy, like spoken about in this sub, is practically unfalsifiable. Unless we speak of specific and quantifiable things relating to the concept, I avoid the discussion.

passepar2t · 2020-09-01T09:23:18+00:00

If I was doing well but another guy was doing better I just have a hard time believing girls will dump you just because of that.

Girls will want to dump you just because of that. Whether they do depends on many factors. Hypergamy is a tendency.

poppy_blu · 2020-09-01T07:37:43+00:00

I’ll say it again: hypergamy has become a catch all term for everything they don’t like about women and want to not be their own fault.

Any woman who divorces her husband is guilt of hypergamy (never mind that women are less likely than men are to remarry within a year of a divorce.)

Any woman who ends her relationship with a man is guilty of hypergamy.

Any woman who dates who she wants to date is guilty of hypergamy.

Hypergamy a charge levied at women who date attractive men, wealthy men, ordinary men, thugs. Single mothers are guilty. Career women are guilty. Young women are guilty. Old women are guilty

Basically if you have a vagina and you aren’t currently using it provide unconditional love to a foreign stemlord or tradcel, you’re guilty of hypergamy and you must be stopped.

BROWN-TOILET-PAPER · 2020-09-01T07:48:23+00:00

The idea of it makes sense but if this were the case every girl would dump what she has because there's always someone better.

There isn't always someone better. There is a ceiling to that, depending where she is at on the ladder. Some chick who is a '4' can't just keep finding someone better. Like you said about the guy comfortably giving up, that's when other prospects become better. They just become replacements. Many men are fine being in a stagnant relationship they helped create. Many women aren't, whether they helped create that or not.

poppy_blu · 2020-09-01T07:50:37+00:00

The other issue here is these guys are trying to play a game they’re just not built for. Relationships begin and end all the time. This is normal. There’s nothing immoral about it. People get dumped. People get rejected. It hurts to be on the receiving end, but no one is obligated to keep dating anyone just because and they’re certainly not obligated to get approval of their dating choices from others. If you’re so risk averse that you can’t handle this maybe you are better off sitting out.

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Doctor823 · 2020-09-02T19:15:01+00:00

Its not real

Haywood_Jablomie42 · 2020-09-01T07:31:34+00:00

If I was doing well but another guy was doing better I just have a hard time believing girls will dump you just because of that.

Then you're in for a rough life. You sound very young and inexperienced, so you cling to the fantasy that church, school, media, etc teach of "women are wonderful and would never do anything wrong".

2020-09-01T16:25:49+00:00

hmm hypergamy is real but it's actually in reverse. Men are choosy and shallow as fk. A 45 year old man is still chasing 20 something's if he's successful. Many men that are attractive are also chasing multiple women.

Men from 20-50 are competing for women 20-35 (and often competing for multiple girls) ... so of course women can be a bit choosy because the market supply and demand is totally in their favor.

When i'm 45 am I going to go for 40 year old women... fck no... why not? because i'm a shallow hypergamous narcissist just like most men

wtknight · 2020-09-01T12:38:40+00:00

but if this were the case every guy would be insecure about where they stood status wise.

Why? I’ve known that every woman who dated me was enough into me that she wasn’t looking into branch swinging. The one time that was an exception was my first marriage, but at the point that she was looking at other guys I wasn’t really into the marriage either.

If I was doing well but another guy was doing better I just have a hard time believing girls will dump you just because of that.

Women won’t if they have an emotional attachment to the guy whom she is currently with, but sometimes they will drop hints to the guy that she wants him to improve. If the guy won’t for whatever reason, then she might start looking into branch swinging.

Some women are are perfectly happy with the guy whom they are hypergamously with, though, and aren’t going to be constantly pressuring him to improve. It really depends a lot on the woman and her personality, and personally I think that AWALT applies to hypergamy, but not branch swinging.

leftwingrightwingall · 2020-09-01T13:26:17+00:00

Way less real than TRP makes it out to be and way more than bluepillers make it out to be.

ForceGlittering · 2020-09-02T08:38:29+00:00

The real term is capitalism and men in late capitalist societies are groomed to be disloyal as their spending out of addiction is fab for the economy. Same goes with career women, they don't want a man baby

LooseIndication · 2020-09-02T10:39:10+00:00

Women will not jump automatically to another male, unless he is a safe bet, where "safe" is whatever the woman feels.

That's what "Monkey branching" explains. The monkey has a hand firm in one branch, and only leaves it after he feel safe grabbing the new one.

The woman may not leave you, but may cheat, and she will test the waters all the time. All women test the waters, all the time. That's why they spend a lot of time with make up, and looking good, even to go to work.

She is always throwing the bait, to see what gets on the hook.

Your problem is that you make a moral issue of it, when it is a practical issue.

You had been taught a superstitious idea of romantic love that is artificial, and has no basement. It goes so contrarian to female nature that women deem those rules "unfair" and oppressing".

On the past, social norms imposed female loyalty, but that's a thing of the past. Society moved away, and nobody notified you. You live in the past, and it is a distant past.

It is not matter of finding a good woman. Because an hypergamous woman is not a "bad" woman. Is just a woman.

You cannot plan your life depending on her "love". His love is temporary, if you ever had it at all.

You can only live in the moment. If she is pleasant now, and gives you no reason to complain, you keep her. At the first shadow of doubt, you get a new one.

A woman in love cares only to please you. As soon as she becomes trouble, his love is gone.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-09-01T07:35:58+00:00

They won't dump you just because of that, but if they meet said guy and are attracted to him as well, your balls are probably next up on the chopping block.

CatchPhraze · 2020-09-01T08:25:42+00:00

It's extremely real, it's just not a gendered issue. Everyone would if they could secure a mate that is better in as many ways as they could get, better then them.

The only difference is what men and woman value in each other. Men want woman who are more soft, curvy, feminine, pretty then they are by massive margins.

Woman want men whom are taller, broader and more masculine then them in large margins.

Both would take a rich partner willing to spend money on them. Both would take a famous person who gets them places they could could never get into themselves. Both want loyalty in that partner. Hypergamy is very real, but it's just human nature. It only looks different because the sexes have different ideals.

KirthWGersen · 2020-09-01T07:48:11+00:00

People always do what they perceive as being best for them. All things being equal, they will pick the best option.

But all things are not equal. People do not necessarily abandon an established relationship when something new and shiny comes along.

People get attached to each other. That has value and can keep someone loyal when a superficially better opportunity arises.

That is why, if you want your partner to be faithful, you need to be constantly gaming her, romancing her, exciting her, having fun, building something special: make the relationship with you a better option than any other and she won't even consider leaving. There are great husbands who instinctively know this; there are also abusive personalities who achieve the same thing in a different way.

There are no certainties, but you can improve your odds of making a relationship succeed in the long-run.

Kentucky_Supreme · 2020-09-01T18:31:05+00:00

Look up how women rate men on dating apps.

I think it's definitely a thing and it's at its worst in the initial stages of dating. That's why do many women will match with guys and ghost them after chatting only a little bit or never even talk to them in the first place. It's because "Mr. 0.0001% better" showed up. After she starts investing in someone, I think it becomes less of a factor. Definitely still there but not as prominent.

SaBahRub · 2020-09-01T19:51:51+00:00

Hypergamy, in its bastardized, non-socioanthropological definition, means that “a woman is not chained to me for life and that makes me sad”

TazeThemAll · 2020-09-01T08:24:29+00:00

Hypergamy is as real as female narcissism, and just as plentiful.

2020-09-01T15:36:33+00:00

We actually have people dumb enough to debate hypergamy on this sub still. I mean have they never seen a gold digger before?

Title	How real is hypergamy?
Author	bayfarm
Upvotes	19
Comments	365
Date	September 1, 2020 7:21 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ikfuiz/how_real_is_hypergamy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-real-is-hypergamy.173019 https://theredarchive.com/post/173019

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