If a guy has difficulty attracting sociable guys as friends, do we agree/disagree he’ll have difficulty attracting women?

SweeterPickles · 2018-07-11T00:44:18+00:00

Yeah most likely. Making friends involves social skills, meeting women involves looks and social skills. If you’re lacking male friends, you’re likely lacking social skills, which puts you at an enormous disadvantage to meeting women.

writingtoc · 2018-07-11T01:47:25+00:00

If you're going somewhere specific with these posts, Grid, I think I agree. One of the biggest disconnects I perceive on this sub is between that group of dudes who are convinced it's something specific about how they look (not enough muscle, eyes tilted the wrong way etc.) and - well, and those of us who think it almost certainly has little or nothing to do with how they look. There's a whole group of young men here who, imo, seriously don't 'get it' - and for whom spending more time here/on the RP sub is, imo, probably actively harmful in terms of them building satisfying lives.

You can tell even through the medium of text alone that a lot of these dudes were hardly socialized at all/are in some ways quite feral.

tiger1296 · 2018-07-11T01:13:52+00:00

Well duh, if a person doesn't have enough social skills to acquire simple friendships, the seduction is way above their level.

EmoryUpton · 2018-07-11T00:41:28+00:00

Even if it’s not their core friend group, could learning to “kick it” with guys like this be helpful?

Of course. Mr. Upton and I have discussed this in the context of Thing 1, who is an INTP like his dad. Shit-talking and teasing is not his first instinct for socializing with other guys, so Mr. Upton has stepped up his efforts in getting him comfortable with this sort of thing, in various ways.

exit_sandman · 2018-07-11T08:35:12+00:00

If a guy has difficulty attracting sociable guys as friends, do we agree/disagree he’ll have difficulty attracting women?

Yes, that's most likely the case.

Should non-sociable men make more of an effort to blend with these guys?

Yes.

If your circle of friends predominantly consists of guys who are similar in that regard, all you get from that is that you can be nerdy with each other. And no, compartmentalizing your friendships in a way that you hang out with other nerds on the one hand and girls on the other doesn't help you, as I think we can all agree on.

But if you mostly or exclusively hang out with outgoing guys with player tendencies, odds are that it'll rub off onto you in one way or another; the two most likely changes being (a) you'll adopt their more realistic take on women and (b) you'll also start hitting on women if everyone around you does, too.

All this assumes that it'll work, of course. The problem with that outgoing, charismatic guys who are or have the capacity to be players but simultaneously aren't assholes to guys on the lower levels of the social hierarchy (let alone them having the desire to mingle with them) are rather rare, almost to the extent that one might just as well call them "male unicorns".

And then one still should make it one's mission to figure out how they roll and to emulate them, which also requires to get out of your preexisting mindset.

MoodyBrizo · 2018-07-11T00:46:38+00:00

Being extroverted and sociable will always get you laid more in every context. If that isn't your natural state of existence then learn to fake it come hell or high water if having sex is important to you.

dankytank · 2018-07-11T01:31:27+00:00

We're social animals, despite the differences un gender, I find that men and women like similar things in friends. A good sense of humor, shared interests and being able to blend with mixed company are some of the most common characteristics I see among friend groups. These traits are also very important when dating, because first: they allow you to meet potencial dates. Second: people don't tend to isolate their partners unless it's a very casual relationship, and even in casual dating people still want to ve able to go out with someone and know they'll get along. So yes, what I've observed is that men with a fair amount of male and female friends tend to be succesful at dating by virtue of 'if this one person liked me with little effort, other people will also like me'.

honeypuppy · 2018-07-11T08:12:03+00:00

I think it's true that extroverted, normie guys will all else equal find it easier to get laid than introverted, slightly weird guys. I also think that it's suboptimal for overall happiness for the former to try to emulate the latter (source: my own experience) and you'll be far happier trying to find girls in your niche, even if it might not strictly get you laid as much as pretending to be Chad to Stacey.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-07-11T08:19:29+00:00

Yes, because if he has more guy friends who are social he'll be able to meet more women. Friends of friends.

But I also think it is a bad comparison because men are much more forgiving of social misfits than women imo.

Dubslav_von_Chekem · 2018-07-11T01:20:35+00:00

The fuck is a vibe?

If you weren't a woman, I'd say that's fag talk.

Men are super easy to get along with. Just don't be gay when you suck his dick, no homo.

celincelin · 2018-07-11T06:38:52+00:00

How are they like women? They bond via “vibe” and intuitive rapport etc.

This is bananas. Men bond via shared beliefs and experiences.

If you can’t bond with men, you will most likely suck with women, too, but the opposite isn’t necessarily true.

wattwatty · 2018-07-11T01:03:28+00:00

The constant stream of "TRPs are weirdo autists with no social skills, and that's why they are the way they are," smacks of concern trolling.

I've always had a large circle of male friends, forged through various channels. The most prominent of these channels has been team sports. Men fucking love me! I'm the guy who's always up to just talk shit and have a beer, the guy who will help you out with something, the guy who gets tweet mentions like, "To heck with being like xxxx. Be like wattwatty! #goals."

All of that means I have a fulfilling life filled with people I enjoy. It also means exactly jack and shit to women. When I started treating women in ways that I would never treat men whom I wanted to be my friend, suddenly I got results (i.e. got my dick wet).

poppy_blu · 2018-07-11T00:45:27+00:00

Well, normie doesnt equal sociable. Normie means not ASD or socially anxious. There are plenty of normies who are introverted, perfectly capable of navigating social situations without trying to break down human dynamics with an excel spreadsheet, but they prefer the company of themselves or a few people.

I do agree that the biggest problem most TRPs have is their ASD and/or social anxiety disorder, and I'd bet that a lot of them have had trouble socializing with groups of men throughout their lives. I think that's what drives many of them to RP -- stronger than their desire to get laid is their desire to be accepted as one of the guys.

That said, you're going to get hammered by the "men and women are different, we're not trying to fuck guys, women only care if you're attractive" crowd. They have a mental block. What I would say though is that, yes, working on their social skills and feeling more comfortable about their own masculinity/self image would do wonders. Eliminating the behaviors that appear weird and creepy to men and women alike would help a lot. It's a great, likely necessary, step that will get them in the door and get them at least in the position to have a chance with women. It's kind of like improving your game enough to stop riding the bench and get up to bat. What you do from there requires additional effort but you won't get up to bat at all if you can't get the basics down.

reluctantly_red · 2018-07-11T00:56:38+00:00

In school this may still be true. However, the allure of the sociable guy fades thereafter. Indeed middle aged guys who are still trying to relive their glory days are quite sad. After 30 its much more important to be respected by other guys than it is to socialize with other guys.

blackedoutfast · 2018-07-11T01:04:25+00:00

yeah pretty much.

cxj · 2018-07-11T01:23:21+00:00

This is mostly true, but the alpha of a pack of weirdos will still have some options even if the rest of the pack starves. Competitive eaters have groupies lol.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2018-07-11T01:51:30+00:00

A lot of people here conflating having difficulty with not wanting to do so.

wtknight · 2018-07-11T02:20:37+00:00

He'll probably have more difficulty attracting extroverted women, but he can still attract some introverted women if he is good looking enough and has decent enough one-on-one interaction skills.

nomansweb · 2018-07-11T09:04:17+00:00

I'm sure there's some correlation, but this is a heavily internet/nerd-culture biased OP. In real life douchy assholes are more common than aspies. Douchy assholes have difficulty attracting male friends who aren't also douchy assholes but they can attract women. Inversely men who aren't aspies but are just very friendly and mellow can easily attract sociable male friends but may still struggle to attract women because there's nothing particularly attractive about them.

jkonrad · 2018-07-11T21:03:32+00:00

I’d go one further. If a dude hasn’t been laid by say 18, he will always have problems with women. Same goes for if he doesn’t have some tight friendships and basic social skills by that time.

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beerhiker · 2018-07-11T06:07:59+00:00

I don't have many guy friends, but I'm fairly ok socially. Mainly it comes down to how much effort I choose to put in. If I'm single, I put more effort in. If I'm with someone, I put very low effort into friend maintenance. I think they (my fair weather friends) eventually realize this. It's not that I don't like them and enjoy hanging with them, I'm just socially lazy unless I want to get laid.

M23W0OH7FV2t · 2018-07-11T06:19:29+00:00

Definitely.

Those skills requisite to attracting lovers are the same as those for attracting friends. And, before anyone asks, "/u/M23W0OH7FV2t, how do I learn these skills?", I have aspergers, so am quite possibly the worst person to answer the question.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-07-11T09:17:45+00:00

I'm sure there's a correlation here absolutely.

That said when I was a weird teenager I still managed to get along with the weird girls.

But it stands to reason if you have a bigger pool (not just "weird" people) you have a greater chance of success.

And improving your social skills and social circle is a positive thing for your life in general anyway, I would never discourage anyone from doing it.

Eastuss · 2018-07-11T10:26:36+00:00

It's completely different. Attracting sociable guys for friendship is very easy and doesn't play on the same criteria.

Attracting women is something for the elite.

Now if this is about social skills and not attraction, it's similar, but surely someone who has bad social skill that affects his ability to have any friend, surely getting a girlfriend would be worse.

However, I was more likely to get female friendship and eventually more because interacting with women was always more stimulating to me. I never had much friends, around 16/17 I had lot of male friends but they were mostly the result of me experimenting. As an adult I don't have friends because I don't want to see them often enough for it to be steady and healthy. Technically that makes me less attractive for friendship.

IncomeByEtnicity · 2018-07-11T18:18:51+00:00

What you say is true but it is incomplete. What you are sayiig is that Sociable men will be better than in-sociable men at attracting Sociable women. But there are just as many in-sociable women who are turned off by the "Center of attention" sociable men.

So in a society that is more Direct and open, like maybe the Netherlands, where the pool of social people and therefore social women is larger, it will be helpful to be more social.

However, in a more BiPolar, long winter society like Finland, where the pool of introverted, shy, people are much larger, it might help you to be less Social.

Similarly, if you live in Miami, it may help to be more social, if you live in Anchorage, it may help to be less social.

EdwardBarnes1913 · 2018-07-12T15:04:30+00:00

Absolutely.

But unfortunately the opposite doesn’t follow; being very popular with Male friends guarantees you nothing with women.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-07-13T23:47:10+00:00

I think to an extent if you're not very sociable you wouldn't be making many connections overall, but attracting popular dudes as friends, and attracting women as sexual partners are too very different things.

If you are courting a lady, and she sees that you are well sought after by other popular people, and cherished or admired by your closer circle of friends, than that could make her see you even more positively though.

So I guess I would say that they can be mutually exclusive, but being popular can help you be perceived positively by women actually.

handsomejoe99 · 2018-07-11T01:18:01+00:00

Nonsense. Because I dont want to hang around the same group of guys like an immature frat boy, I must have problems attracting women??? Wtf kind of logic is that??

How about, this: Wasting my time around a bumch o' swinging dicks does nothing for me that Im interested in. PLUS - and this is key - that would exact a HUGE opportunity cost on me. Every minute I waste with dudes is a minute I could have spent with a cute woman, or finding and pursuing cute women to date.

If a guy has difficulty attracting sociable guys as friends, do we agree/disagree he’ll have difficulty attracting women?

ThoughtsAndPrayers

Comments

Title	If a guy has difficulty attracting sociable guys as friends, do we agree/disagree he’ll have difficulty attracting women?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	25
Comments	155
Date	July 11, 2018 12:33 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8xuwlx/if_a_guy_has_difficulty_attracting_sociable_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-a-guy-has-difficulty-attracting-sociable-guys.261582 https://theredarchive.com/post/261582