Is there really a decline in masculinity?

cowfishAreReal · 2022-03-07T16:10:44+00:00

Depends on how you're defining masculinity

Gigamon2014 · 2022-03-07T17:27:21+00:00

Yes. Anyone denying so is an idiot. On just about metrics used to define male health, men are performing poorly. Lower sperms counts, lower sperms motility, lower educational attainment, lower participation in skilled labour, increased weight, increased consumption of pornography and videogames.

There is no "way to define masculinity". If you suck at working, buying a home and impregnating your other half then it's fair to say there might be an issue. Women on here will deny it but women on Reddit aren't exactly the kost desirable stock. Most wouldn't have even on the radar of desirable masculine and/or accomplished men.

social_mule · 2022-03-07T17:27:35+00:00

Yes. It's not just a talking point. Men's testosterone levels have been declining for decades.

Testosterone levels show steady decrease among young US men

Generational decline in testosterone levels observed

Men's testosterone levels declined in last 20 years

Declining testosterone levels in men not part of normal aging

slavicslothe · 2022-03-07T18:16:54+00:00

It always seems like the people who tell you that is the case are either 80 year old boomers or have an anime picture in their bio.

wtknight · 2022-03-07T16:30:00+00:00

Any question about a crisis in masculinity is meaningless. Women define what men should be because they are the gatekeepers of sex. If women decided that pink hair is what is attractive on men, most men would dye their hair tomorrow.

The problem is not a crisis in masculinity, but that women are now allowed to be very choosy in what they want, monogamy is no longer culturally enforced, and many average and lower value men cannot compete well with the higher value men out there.

sarkington · 2022-03-07T18:19:56+00:00

No, we just focus on the individual, not the collective

CoC2018 · 2022-03-07T16:14:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DarkSp3ctre · 2022-03-07T17:39:44+00:00

No, just guys pearl clutching because sone guys aren’t afraid of expressing themselves more now.

Intrepid_Place5390 · 2022-03-07T16:24:17+00:00

Just look at testosterone rates in adult men.

Dramatic drop over the last 20 years, so many men even in their 30's having T issues.

why?

Diet, physical fitness/condition

Are the biggest causes

ThisBoringLife · 2022-03-07T20:07:01+00:00

How do you define masculinity?

By job? By physical traits? By mental/emotional ones?

Has the expectations changed?

braviscus · 2022-03-07T21:29:55+00:00

If you're defining masculinity as fighting in the schoolyard, beating your wife, and smoking Marlboro red cigarettes, then yes.

I'd say that's a large indicator of boyishness and immaturity, though.

Less risky, less racist? Yes that's where boys are heading. But isn't self control and responsible actions the real marker of a true man?

Savings_Occasion_503 · 2022-03-08T04:23:34+00:00

From my experience men that aren't radical politically still have masculine traits. I feel like it just comes naturally to them without societal pressures. Ive been expose to alot of left leaning ideas but I still am attracted to more masculine stuff. I love working on my car, I've been a construction labour under the sun and love to go through the hardware aisle. Additional I've studied martial arts for a bit and try to not fight because I understand that the consequences of fighting outweigh the benefits. The pure aggression still exists but I believe most men learn to control it.

Itburns12345 · 2022-03-08T12:16:05+00:00

Yes and no! boomers whinge about it and boomers caused it.

They helped create an economy where wages havent kept up with the cost of living ,getting on the housing market is soo much harder and workers rights have gone into the toilet so many are now living still at home and eating cheap fattening testosterone lowering crap! They voted in politicans who crippled any sort of regulation on the food and drink industry helping skyrocket obesity rates and decrease testosterone levels

That said on the flipside the gen x and millenials have toughed it out through the boomer generation pulling up the ladder behind them on the economy , 2 long wars (with a 3rd on the horizon) , 2 economic crisis and a pandemic! They are arent terrified of people of colour nor the gay community like boomers are and they are more likely to have gym memberships than the older gen where.

Boomers who winge about masculinity falling have tried to ban rap music , violent video games , mma ,porn , parkour and other extreme sports !!! They cried like babies over 'tyranny' of masks (looks esp childish now with ukraine facing real tyranny!)
Whereas the so called crybaby gen x and millenials have taken to brutaly realistic combat video games , rap, basejumping and other extrme sports and combat sports like mixed martial arts with a passion!!! They stepped up bravely and have since came home from 2 brutal wars as heroes , when you reflect on all that its the boomers who need to man the fuck up!!

SpiritualEnema · 2022-03-07T16:29:17+00:00

Women are much more masculine than they traditionally have been.

_-One4All-_ · 2022-03-07T17:20:02+00:00

Masculinity is about a lot more than just hand to hand combat. Masculinity is a mindset, it’s a state of being. Masculinity is something a woman could never begin to comprehend.

Lateralanouncer · 2022-03-07T22:30:10+00:00

It's more of a war on masculinity; if you're sincerely asking this question, read the book the manipulated man. If you're not sincerely asking it, then you're just an example of the social issue.

Think about how people react to these statements.

Alpha man. What's that mean? Anyone call himself that is. Misogynist, conservative, trump voter, religious nut, and etc.lets me too, or use cancel culture to destroy. Divide. Joe Roman's Alpha, let's destroy and cancel

Alpha woman. Clap clap. You go, girl, you don't need a man.

Alburg9000 · 2022-03-07T16:16:53+00:00

Yeah this sub proves it imo severe lack of accountability and a lot of whining imo

Classic_Head3437 · 2022-03-07T17:24:51+00:00

Part of being a man is being independent and able to handle your emotions. Young guys can't do that. They're perpetual victims. It's always someone else's fault they can't get laid, or succeed at work. They want women to pursue them because "equality" and give them forehead kisses and let them be the little spoon. Part of being a man is being the rock for everyone else to lean.

afkawayrn · 2022-03-07T16:16:47+00:00

I’m around a lot of younger men in their 20’s, I’ve never seen more lazy people in my life. The entire z Gen and after is the most entitled people ever.

Very few give a shit about starting a 401k, very few want to work full time 9-5 jobs, very few want to move out of moms house, guys are being lazy as fuck.

And it makes 0 sense to me because as SOON as I turned 18 I had my own place, I want to have a spot to bring hoes back to LOL. So weird that guys will just sit at mommy’s house and blame the economy or wtf ever for their video game addiction instead of go fuckin work and get a place

CoC2018 · 2022-03-07T16:12:41+00:00

How many men do you pass on the street would fight back if someone was to hit them? I can guarantee 50 years ago the number was higher. Most countries have a trade shortage with so many men choosing jobs like programming,software,social media etc Anyone that’s spent time in construction knows it’s a hyper masculine environment to the point it’s toxic sometimes I think the decline in masculinity is because there isn’t as much as a need for it compared to 50 years ago where the family unit was so important a man had to be strong tough and masculine to show his sons how to be too.

peteypete78 · 2022-03-07T16:16:07+00:00

"Traits traditionally viewed as masculine in Western society include strength, courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness"

Are there less men now who embody these things? I think so.

Also to note plenty of videos out there of men of all kinds of backgrounds fighting.

SnooSprouts1580 · 2022-03-07T16:58:54+00:00

Men do their work and chase natural career progression, and are as physically active as they need to be.

But there is a lack of masculine behavior from men when they engage with women.

TilTheWarIsWon · 2022-03-07T17:43:18+00:00

Yes. Being traditionally masculine is less necessary to provide for a family or ensure the safety of your loved ones now more than ever. These days all you need is to land a good enough job and move to a safe enough neighborhood

And since women have more agency and independence now to pursue these things themselves, they're more threatening than empowering to a man's sense of masculinity

OraleEse13 · 2022-03-07T17:58:34+00:00

Fighting doesn't make you "non-masculine." Guys grow out of it. But, if you're in the bar or club scene (which is after 21) sometimes you have no choice when some drunken fool gives you no choice.

As far as work and career progression... the increase in depression sometimes really hurts men's ability to have the energy to be assertive. I've seen it before from guys who are otherwise very masculine. The problem is men are more reluctant to deal with it and so sometimes stagnate. That's something men have to address and be proactive about.

2022-03-07T20:46:01+00:00

Both men and women/ boys and girls are being coddled in a way unprecedented in human history except perhaps for royalty. So I would say for your average person there has been a decline in toughness and independence. I'm actually surprised the west can still function given how coddled, spoiled, and entertainment obsessed people are.

Jakes1967 · 2022-03-07T21:15:29+00:00

Is there really a decline in masculinity?

I follow a guy called Wranglerstar

https://www.facebook.com/wranglerstar1/

Go and look at his video "I was disrespected today"...

This guy is super blue pill and if guys like him are thinking and reacting this way, then ladies you've lost the plot completely.

Guitar-Master9891 · 2022-03-08T01:33:27+00:00

Yes there is.

Masculinity is not about picking fights with everyone, but knowing how to/being able to stand your ground when needed.

Most men today are AFRAID of aproaching a woman, not even mention to fight back.

I live in a quite dangerous country (western country btw) where there are armed thieves and a lot of non-organized crime, so I understand if some men prefer to give away their things in hopes to not get shooted.

But Europe? Damn bro, there are no ilegal gun fires there, then how is it that "Latin Kings" run the streets in Spain and "immigrant gangs" spread terror in London population?

I tell you, men there are COMPLETE PUSSIFAGS. Specially "local" men. Not trying to make this a race thing but you know demographics.

When I was in Madrid grown ass men were assaulted by a bunch of kids with sticks. Fucking STICKS! Come on man, serious? In London a friend of mine was asked for "lumber" by a guy of... Ehem... Certain race. The guy just lit his cigarete and walked away without giving back my friend his lighter. I just didn't notice. A minute after my friend tells me "that's why I hate ... so much, they are always so disrespectful". I said "What?", and he says "Didn't see that? He just walked away with my lighter", I say "Did he STOLE your lighter?", "Nono, he just walked away with it". I say "Wait a minute", runned after the fucker and asked for the lighter. The guy looked stunned that I asked him back, like he wasn't used to people claiming back the stuff that were their property. Super weird thing right?

He refused so I kicked his ass, got the lighter back and stole his cigaretes.

I assaulted a thieve in London. How cool is that? And I was like the thug of the neighbourhood after that because "you don't fool around with guys of certain race yah know, they are dangerous...". Tell me about reverse racism granting people superpowers just because whatever.

Dudes were scared of other dudes all over Europe, some dude came and started hitting on their girlfriends in front of them? No problem, she can defend herself, we have a strong relationship... Oh she's going to the back halley with the guy? Don't worry, she's a heavy smoker, maybe she wants a cigarete. The guy just skipped the line? Oh that's not polite on his behalf, such a douchebag. Say something? Oh no, that's conflict.

I swear during the 5 years I spent in Europe I rolled around the streets on my fucking pelotas. "Don't go there, it's a non droit zone" fuck it that's where I'm going now. "Oh you can't go out at night, Latin Kings..." to hell with the Latin Kids, I kick latino asses everyday at home. The dude skkiped the line? Hey you fucker, yah you stupid turbo-cuck, get in the line, we all saw you.

Most baffling thing? That people didn't expect me to just hold my ground because I was so "white passing" (also weird shit, I'm Huge Jackman-eske with blue eyes, but somehow I'm not white un Europe, just "white passing". Whatever. If those guys are white then I want to be just latino, don't put me in that same box please)

I had the most fucking amazing time in Europe, I tell you. You won't believe how good it feels to have some beers in an empty park in the middle of the night whithout having to worry about some street riders to jump off a mothorcycle with a loaded 38' pointing to your head. The guy that tried to steal my beers with beared hands? I just gave him a beer, just like he asked for, right in the top of his head, that's was all.

Being honest, I can't wrap my head around why are some european men such a pussies. Not trying to offend anyone, but lots of people lost their lives in other parts of the world for less than you give away easily for fear of getting a scratch on your face or lose some teeth. And I mean, some of these same dudes were quite on good shape and even practiced MMA or some shit like that. What are you affraid off man? I can't believe it.

I know I'm going to get downvoted till Oblivion, I just don't care bring those downvotes. Just sayin, my experience is that yes, in "civilized" societies, men are complete fags.

PS: as an advice for dudes around the world, don't plan your holidays in Latin America. If you do, keep it easy and stay in touristic areas, don't start wandering around. I don't think you will get stabbed or shooted but with that level of submisiveness you can get dry raped just for fear of sayin "no thanks".

sootlord · 2022-03-08T08:41:06+00:00

The system has been feminizing boys for a few decades now

tempaccc2022 · 2022-03-08T08:44:38+00:00

Society shames masculine guys and praises feminine ones so why should guys have incentive to stick to their masculinity when its all seem as toxic.

Drive-By-Cuckers · 2022-03-08T00:13:35+00:00

Idk I wrestled in high school so I kinda fought people regularly. I’ve also done mma and a few martial arts. The amount of actual fights outside of sports has only gone up for me since becoming an adult and going to college tho

Ian_Campbell · 2022-03-08T05:14:27+00:00

Yeah there is a phenotype of anomalies who would have been rare in history because it would take a serious medical condition to cause that level of hypogonadism but it is more normal now because of environmental contaminants in phthalates and other endocrine disruptors making many men have testosterone levels 1/4th of what they should be, like 250 ng/dl instead of 1,000. See the video where the try guys get their testosterone checked. You can even look at them and tell something has gone wrong in their development.

This has accompanied social changes where individual thought, strength, and leadership are discouraged in favor of following authority and supporting artificial consensus without questioning where it came from. For this reason women do better in the newer generation in school and work because they are more agreeable. There is considerable institutional pull for men to be more like women. Most of our proper nature has been pathologized in school.

Noam Chomsky has stated that the purpose of the university and professional development system is to weed out personalities who cannot be submissive enough.

funlovingmissionary · 2022-03-08T07:01:28+00:00

are as physically active as they need to be

I don't think thats happening. Both men and women are increasingly sedentary, and wall e looks more and more like a realistic future.

jgainit · 2022-03-08T08:55:36+00:00

I haven't viewed the studies directly, but I've heard multiple sources quote that testosterone levels in men have measurably dropped since the 80s. I'm kind of assuming they meant in the United States and not necessarily globally, but I'm not sure

Smitten_Squire · 2022-03-07T19:55:00+00:00

Yes their is a huge decline in legitimate masculinity. Clint eastwood, rambo, rutger hauer, and guys like that most of their roles are traditional masculinity. Not many guys like that anymore

DrinkItInMan11 · 2022-03-08T07:32:20+00:00

Yes, yes there is, men have become more weak than ever and it needs to be stopped. Or, we just let men become weaker while I get stronger and rise to the top with ease.

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SolidTunnelSnake · 2022-03-07T17:02:19+00:00

Testosterone levels do decrease with consumption of certain foods as well as a sedentary lifestyle. Then you have to take into consideration genetic components that influence how good a male is at being the ideal man. As an American, I can say we’re lagging behind on both fronts.

Delicious-Channel269 · 2022-03-07T17:23:07+00:00

I've always valued masculinity and I don't see any shortage of masculine men.

Personally I select for guys who are jocks, tradesmen and outdoorsy types. Not only are the hotter, but they have much better mental health.

42nanaimobars · 2022-03-07T19:22:06+00:00

I don’t know what you mean by masculinity. What I can tell you is that there is a decline in adults adventuring and having fun.

Crushed_95 · 2022-03-07T22:12:55+00:00

If you cant chop wood? You're not a man!

Title	Is there really a decline in masculinity?
Author	bitesizeconsistency
Upvotes	8
Comments	215
Date	March 7, 2022 4:06 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/t8skcx/is_there_really_a_decline_in_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-there-really-a-decline-in-masculinity.1105225 https://theredarchive.com/post/1105225

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