Question about physical presentation for dating

wtknight · 2021-07-18T15:18:30+00:00

For men who aren’t having luck on dating apps and are on the small side physically, do you not care about what your targets find attractive or is there another reason for not investing in looking more strong and healthy?

I'm not in the dating market anymore, but I never bulked up because I didn't want to attract the type of woman who was into buff guys. I'd rather attract the type who like guys with average fit bodies. I think what is important is that, unless a man's goal is casual sex with a lot of women, he should tailor his personal appearance to the type of woman who he wants to attract.

TomorrowsWar · 2021-07-18T15:29:33+00:00

Never match a guy who is bitter on his profile. He has a chip on his shoulder. People who are bitter are sensitive because they have a lot of negative thoughts after negative experiences and they’re not “over it”, instead of processing their emotions and moving forward, they seek out ways to prove their negative beliefs of themselves and others. It’s a common reaction but one you should avoid, it’s 2021 and you are not the Joanna Gaines FixerUpper of dating.

In my experience I feel like a lot of guys want to be accepted as they are. But they are often perfectionists so they see self improvement almost like a sign of defeat or proof of their nature inadequacy. But this could also be because they crave a parental unconditional love without understanding that on a conscious level. Sometimes they are depressed and just wanna stay stuck where they are. Or to prove that they’re unlovable, or that women are evil and unloving.

The only time you should engage with bitter men is on Reddit lol

Psychological_Wear_7 · 2021-07-18T15:23:10+00:00

The problem is women mistake roided Instagram models for natty so their definition of "muscular" is unattainable to most men

XtoDoubt · 2021-07-18T15:29:08+00:00

Related to the first part, it's tough to fake confidence and competence.

To the second, it's tough to build considerable muscle without steroids.

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-07-18T21:15:23+00:00

This post is why when i was online dating before meeting my GF i put a shirtless pic on my profile.

I'm very tall so the height thing is irrelevant to me, but like you said some men wear clothes that hide their form.

Women often say shirtless photos make you look like a douche on OLD but in reality i found they made me match a lot more. I'm not even like ripped as fuck. I suppose i look closest to Damien Maia's body -- i have good trap, back and arm definition, but not cut abs.

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/91/2021/06/belal-muhammad-demian-maia-ufc-263-16.jpg

Think that torso with basic white boy head. Dirty blonde hair brown eyes, good facial features.

I don't post a mirror selfie though, that's where a lot of guys go wrong imo. I posted either a beach volleyball pic, or a pic from my muay thai fight, depending on what i felt like.

FemaleDietingSystem · 2021-07-18T15:45:47+00:00

OP, I'm 5'6".

I spend 6 days a week in the gym.

I have wide shoulders, a v-taper, big arms/legs and abs.

It makes zero impact on women at all.

Most women would rather date an ugly, lanky weirdo than a short guy with his shit together.

My fashion is impeccable.

My hair is always on point.

My personal hygiene is perfect.

End result = zero women I find physically attractive are interested.

I won't lie and pretend I didn't initially get in shape for women, I did.

When I realised they didn't care though, I kept it up because I really enjoy it and it's just a part of me now.

I don't blame the short guys who don't bother though. If women are the goal, the rewards aren't worth the effort for most.

As a guy, you're not just trotting on a treadmill swiping through Tinder, you're moving massive amounts of weight to literally rip your muscle fibres and force them to grow. Very few women have any idea about the dedication and strength of character it takes to achieve an impressive male physique, but all of you demand one.

DustyWalnuts · 2021-07-18T15:47:21+00:00

It's a no brainer in my opinion, pretty much any guy can become reasonably muscular and therefore more attractive by investing just a few hours a week at the gym.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-07-18T16:39:36+00:00

I mean, without knowing your weight, I don’t know if you’re actually “curvy” or (like most OLD chicks) just plain fat.

Regardless, I think if you’re in the gym 5X a week you should definitely vet for a gym-goer. As a gym rat who (according to myself only) is on the skinnier side… I LOVE going to the gym with my SO… and I think it’s extremely important to stay in shape for a healthy LTR

As for the height thing… being born short in America is a HUGE disadvantage… I can’t imagine how those dudes feel tbh… but women DO NOT treat them well AT ALL, which is scary considering it’s the BIG thing outside of their control

FreierSteinkopf · 2021-07-18T16:02:24+00:00

I find it weird that some guys would be agrressive in their bio. Personally I think both parties should make an effort to look presentable. Clothes for men can look good very easily and with the lack of options you can't really choose poorly if you spend more than 2 braincells on it.

The body however is a different story altogether. It's hard to achieve bulk naturally which some women just don't get their head around. Loosing weight is far far easier then to become visibly bulky. Some people can't get bulky at all realistically.

OP what would consider the most attractive level of bulkiness?

Anyway, many men I meet seem to be keenly aware of what they find attractive, but how much consideration do you give to what women find attractive?

Since I am digging into some studies on that subject I am well aware of what I should look like.

but is it fair to say that many if not most women prefer a man to be bigger than her (either taller or more muscular/bulky)? This is an evolutionary preference right?

Yes. Some women here would like you to believe that skinny feminin guys rule but according to pretty much all studies that's plain wrong. Muscular and masculine looking men are more attractive generally speaking. Anecdotes don't matter.

Do you have a medical issue?

I have very slight psoriasis but it's nothing like google pictures would make you believe it would. It's not visible, you can't feel it and it doesn't itch so no problem there.

Do you not think it’s worth it?

I wouldn't bulk up for women alone.

Do you think it’s shallow or wrong for women to prefer strong looking men?

It's shallow but not wrong.

Do you think you should be accepted exactly as you are right now?

I don't think anyone should be take me as I am if they don't want to. Some girls like how I look - others don't.

AntifaSuperSwoledier · 2021-07-18T16:07:30+00:00

How do you feel about men who use steroids?

and a very angry sounding bio about how he could lie and nobody would know. I see bios like this all the time.

Incredible that people do this. Sure way to self sabotage.

Typical_Copy_8218 · 2021-07-18T17:48:35+00:00

You say you workout regularly which should mean you are often within flirting distance of the type of man you want to attract. Not every man can be a bodybuilder so was this just a shot at small dudes? Lol. Trust me, they know they’re undesirable. Lol

Pastelitomaracucho · 2021-07-18T17:54:28+00:00

All the effort for what? Pleasing randos on a dating app? For the most part it is not worth it. I don't intend to be accepted women like another body type or look. I don't care. You chase your buff guys, I'll do my thing.

PickleLine · 2021-07-18T21:51:41+00:00

Short men are already not getting many dates just because they are short. Bulking up won't make much of a difference. The type of women who overlook the height would usually also overlook muscles

NPCFactChecker · 2021-07-18T16:43:16+00:00

Lots of reasons. Injury, overwhelmed with school (you ain't getting big if you're serious about STEM), or they're athletic and walk around at a low bodyfat all day.

Do you realize how long it takes to build lean muscle and how strict you have to be with eating?

It took me 6 years to fill out a size large jacket completely and that's with being in 18% bodyfat 5'7" 182 lbs, and working part time while living with my brother after college.

Now I gotta ask what kind of man you're attracted to because you clearly have zero knowledge of sports and performance, nor the amount of effort it takes to legitimately reach a 225 bench for example.

AggroWeasel · 2021-07-18T16:00:44+00:00

Honestly it just sounds like you’re carrying around too much weight and trying to justify it.

Where are you meeting all these men who are smaller than you?

I’m a physically slight guy and I still am taller and weigh more than all the women I’ve dated.

A physically attractive size for a woman is like 5’2” - 5’6” and like 105-125 pounds.

Most guys are bigger than that by a good amount.

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S0mnariumx · 2021-07-18T18:16:15+00:00

Not all women like muscular men and not all men make lifting a hobby. I'm fine with being thin, it suits me. I need to fix my hair but that's going to take awhile, I've been told my skin looks good and I suppose that's true since I'm 30 but look younger. Grooming and hygiene are pretty basic.

Son_of_Tzu · 2021-07-18T18:34:34+00:00

What's your age ?

MisterFlipside · 2021-07-18T20:06:12+00:00

I think a lot of men are seriously uninterested in fashion or looksmaxxing, or at least putting the time, energy and resources into it. So they'd rather find a relationship with someone who is willing to accept them for who they are as opposed to morphing into someone they're not and putting that effort in through the entire relationship.

The bitterness is 100% a result of OLD though, and I really cant blame them. Bad form to put it on their profile, sure, but I doubt these guys have any sort of outlet for their frustrations.

Sad_Top1743 · 2021-07-18T20:30:31+00:00

Dude so I've been buff and skinny...unless you're tall with a big frame I actually think the more attractive girls prefer the skinnier type. If you are tall and buff that's a big plus but most of my gym bro's are short buff guys and women seem to ignore them.

To me, it just seems like a relatively easy fix. No risky BBL or breast implant surgery required. If I were a man and on the shorter side, I would definitely invest the time and energy to bulk up a bit and be muscular. It’s a choice in most cases. I choose to invest in my looks, time and money. It’s not easy, but worth it to me. I wish more men out there felt the same way. I need to be attracted to a man physically for anything romantic to develop between us, but I often show up to dates to find the sexual attraction one-sided.

I feel the same way about all the overweight women.

4D-Alien · 2021-07-18T20:58:24+00:00

not all men want to be muscular jock looking lol. some men are cool with being naturally healthy and lean. also keep in mind some naturally ecto guys cant gain muscle and are naturally super small. it is what it is.

and also keep in mind a lot of those jacked guys you like are jacked because of other issues like self esteem. tons of bodybuilders are low confidence and have issues. thats why they gain muscle to cover it up.

rivetcitymayor · 2021-07-18T21:39:45+00:00

You are 122lbs, every man is bigger than you plus women who are into buff guys are the worst

DreamsOfWishes · 2021-07-18T22:55:28+00:00

For men who aren’t having luck on dating apps and are on the small side physically, do you not care about what your targets find attractive or is there another reason for not investing in looking more strong and healthy?

To me, it just seems like a relatively easy fix. No risky BBL or breast implant surgery required. If I were a man and on the shorter side, I would definitely invest the time and energy to bulk up a bit and be muscular. It’s a choice in most cases.

I think you are underestimating the situation here.

If they're on the small side and skinny...it's likely that they have a very high metabolisme, potentially combined with adhd. Especially in this day and age where it's very easy for them to eat very bad food very quickly and perhaps not be muscular, but be bigger by having a dad bod.

Yet they're skinny. I know multiple men like that and most of them aren't like that by choice. They just can't seem to gain weight. They're eating a lot but aren't gaining weight.

And if you can't gain fat, then you can't gain muscle either. Muscle requires more kcal then fat to maintain. They don't get enough resources in as it is, to get a bit bigger by having fat. Muscles require more resources then fat to maintain. If they can't increase their calorie intake, then they can't gain muscle...or well they can but their body is just gonna burn it away again because it needs food and it can't maintain the muscles.

do you not care about what your targets find attractive

Also... I'm 5'2 not skinny but upper range of normal with the majority of the fat being in my curves. And what if their target is me? I like em. I don't like bulky dudes.

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2021-07-18T23:05:09+00:00

How much consideration do you give to what women find attractive?

Enough to improve myself but not enough to worry.

Of course, not all women prefer the same exact body type, but is it fair to say that many if not most women prefer a man to be bigger than her (either taller or more muscular/bulky)?

Yes.

This is an evolutionary preference right? Security/protection and all that?

I guess.

I choose to invest in my looks, time and money. It’s not easy, but worth it to me. I wish more men out there felt the same way.

The problem isn't men not feeling this way, its them not knowing. Most men are under the impression women don't value looks much. But that's bullshit. More men than ever are working out and getting cosmetic surgery because now we realize attraction is all that matters.

Do you think it’s shallow or wrong for women to prefer strong looking men?

No.

Do you think you should be accepted exactly as you are right now?

No. My partner should accept me for me. But that doesn't mean I can't improve.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-07-19T00:07:26+00:00

how much consideration do you give to what women find attractive? Of course, not all women prefer the same exact body type, but is it fair to say that many if not most women prefer a man to be bigger than her (either taller or more muscular/bulky)?

do you not care about what your targets find attractive or is there another reason for not investing in looking more strong and healthy?

First of all, this doesn't at all comport with women's constant statements that there is no one body type that women like; that women like ALL KINDS of men; and that it doesn't matter if we're "skinnier" or "bigger" or "stockier", just that we're taller.

We don't know necessarily what you'll find attractive, particularly because women lie about it, conceal it, and aren't honest about it.

What exactly are you asking here? Are you asking why a few men you met have lied about their sizes or heights? Are you asking why some men don't looksmax? Are you asking why some men just aren't physically attractive?

A lot of men believe women when they say they don't like muscles.

A lot of men don't care.

A lot of men used to care but discovered that no matter how much work they put in, it made no difference.

A lot of men got burned and so they don't care and are just out to get what they can while they can.

A lot of men just look as good as they can and they do what they can, and if it's not good enough, well, then it's not good enough, and whatever.

A lot of men figure they have nothing to lose by stretching the truth, so they do it.

We would care about what "targets" find attractive if women would stop lying about it and stop lying about what we can CLEARLY see.

Why are you agreeing to dates with men who don't look physically appealing to you in their photos? Can't you tell if they look good in their photos, regardless of their heights?

midwesternMD · 2021-07-19T01:21:14+00:00

I’m on the dating market, with a smaller build. About 5’7”, 145 lbs. I do well enough in online dating insofar as matches, just not necessarily to the women I most desire. I would like to bulk up for personal reasons though. Between my metabolism, eating habits, and presumably genetics, it doesn’t come easy to me. Never has. It might be possible with more dedication to lifting and diet on my part. But the way I approach my career makes that a logistical impossibility. And I’m rocking out on the career front, so I hesitate to change things up.

I don’t think it’s shallow for women to look for some kind of sexual dimorphism. Hell, I have my preferences too.

As for your shorter men dating experience, that sucks. I think it’s ridiculous for either party to lie about shit and get pissy when they’re rejected or feel self conscious. I don’t lie about my actual stats. I prefer to use slightly less than optimal pictures so that if she likes me enough to go in a date, I end up showing up looking better than expected. For my part, I don’t care if my date dwarfs me in heels. It might make public kissing a little awkward at first, but I find a well-dressed woman in heels very sexy, and I’m not butt hurt by my height to the point where I wouldn’t date a taller woman.

King_D0ng · 2021-07-18T15:34:45+00:00

Is not the entire point of TRP determining what women find attractive in men, then becoming that type of man? Who are you arguing against here? The men on this subreddit are likely to agree with you since one of TRPs main advice is to lift.

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