SAHM's work hard

bluepy67 · 2016-08-19T21:19:20+00:00

Two things.

Yes, it is difficult and undervalued.
After a period of poverty, you can regain financial independence. It took about a decade, but I out earn my ex husband.

People who reduce being a stay at home mom to the cost of cleaning and take out, miss the point. It's having someone who loves the family taking care of it. No one will teach and guide your kids the way a SAH parent who cares will. You just never see it (I do see a lot of trashy parenting, in addition. Not every home parent does a great job. But done right, it's not purchasable.)

cxj · 2016-08-19T18:07:57+00:00

The thing about sahm is that there is very little accountability involved. Its not like you can fire a sahm. Yes, of course there are great ones like your mom who pour their hearts into it and the world is a better place for it, but the onus is on them and their character to put the effort in. Many sahm half ass or barely do it, spending hours in Facebook and watching soap operas and shit while the kids run around naked and screaming, then claim to have the hardest job in the world, are under appreciated etc. And of course these are also the biggest most vocal whiners.

In my experience it really boils down to whether or not being a sahm mom was a plannned, discussed option or something she got forced into via inability to make enough money to justify leaving the house. I think the shitty sahm didn't want to be sahm, and usually don't want to do anything in particular. They had no plan for life, they were just waiting tables or whatever and then got knocked up . They weren't happy before and ofc they aren't happy now so they blame this on everything but themselves.

OTOH, the planned sahm are the happiest people I know.

teeay · 2016-08-19T19:31:10+00:00

I've done it, for months at a time. It was like a holiday. Waaaay easier than my corporate work.

UA_Hammer · 2016-08-19T17:53:09+00:00

Most of that stuff can be outsourced and has a capped dollar value that isn't very high. For example, cleaning: 60 bucks a week (~240/month, 3k per year). Most guys who get cleaned out by SAHMs in divorce court could have saved 90% by hiring help

KrispyMcSockington · 2016-08-19T18:52:22+00:00

Throughout the net, I hear about how being a Stay-At-Home-Mom is easy. There's an undertone that it is worthless. I have seen SAHM's called things like parasite, gold digger, and lazy throughout the web from the most liberal sites to the most conservative.

I would venture a guess this has more to do with the fact that putting a dollar value on the work doesn't add up to as nearly as much as working for a company. Don't get me wrong, SAHMs provide a valuable service but they cannot claim that their work is practically divine when they chose to have kids and chose to raise them. It is also not a good idea to start feeling entitled when it comes to child raising when kids cost a lot, your partner is working hard too and you both chose this life. There is no special award for being a parent. You do what you have to do. Hopefully your kids appreciate it.

My mom is a SAHM, and I know people from all socioeconomic classes and backgrounds who have stayed at home and it is NOT an easy job.

It is not easy. But neither is being a garbage collector or a waitress. No job is easy. No one gets special appreciation for the hard work they do. Maybe they get a bonus. I get that some people over simplify what SAHMs do, but those moms do themselves a disservice when they want equal recognition to the jobs people in companies do, like feminists wanted SAHMs to be seen as regular workers with salaries. It just doesn't work that way. They also do themselves a disservice if they complain hubby is not earning enough or has been unemployed too long.

First of all, you depend financially upon another person. If divorce or financial problems happen, you will suffer. Sure you can get alimony or child support, but you will never have quality of life that you had before, and you will not be easily able to find high enough paying work if you have been out of the workforce too long. You are trusting that your husband can provide for you and your kids and that he will not snap and decide to abuse or leave you.

Women initiate divorce at a higher rate than men do. If she quits her job, raises the kids, complains then initiates divorce, she has no one else to blame but herself. She chose to do those things. If he never abused her and he did his job, leaving is not a good idea without a job. If he is abusive then leave. Leaving because he didn't like to do the dishes or help with the kids and you have no job prospects is asking to struggle.

Women who stay at home are expected to do a million thankless tasks. My mom is expected to garden, cook homemade and healthy meals, run errands like going to different stores to get everything the family needs, almost all the cleaning, paperwork for my dad's business, and being attentive and kind to her family. The individual tasks she does are small, but they add up to a large and busy job.

I worked as a reporter for seven years. I got a salary that would not have put a roof over my head and went into dangerous neighbourhoods for a byline on a story most people forgot once they tossed the paper away. I complained it was thankless, that those 14hour workdays, seven days a week were not worth it. That the boss was a douchebag who didn't care if I lived or died because talking to criminals in crime ridden neighbourhoods late at night was what they wanted.

Know what I did? I left. But I didn't quit with nothing. I studied part time and changed my industry altogether. I work less, earn more and I get to travel. All those small things I did as a reporter added up to a lot of effort. That was it. No one cared as long as I didn't get the paper sued. At least a SAHM doesn't have to risk her life to do her job. Mrs McSockington was warned she'd be assaulted and raped by some criminals if she continued to pursue a story she was chasing. I am not saying SAHMs don't work hard but they should understand what they don't have to do to get by. If she forgets the dishes, no one dies or loses their job.

Not only is she responsible for the tasks of the home, but she is responsible for the values her kids learn. Since she was at home with my siblings and I all day, she was our primary influence and example growing up. My dad spent time with me, too, but my mother was (and still is) the first person I would go to for advice and encouragement when I was stressed. In fact, as a teenager/ young adult some of my friends would call my mom to for ask life advice.

This is sweet. I wish more moms were like this. I wonder if she'd be able to do this without the support your dad offered, though. She is providing a valuable service but if a divorce happens, should men lose their homes and access to their kids because she was a little nicer than other women? That seems excessive. There have to be different ways of approaching things like divorce settlements in these cases.

She works tirelessly all day. In a home where both parents work, the burdens and cares of the home are generally more equally divided, and both parties are more open to hiring help occasionally if they need it. But for a SAHM, the responsibility falls entirely on her. My mom spends her mornings cleaning, gardening, or running errands, afternoons cleaning and cooking, and nights doing paperwork for my dad and helping out with our church. When we were younger, she did all that with taking care of kids.

Remember, your parents chose this. She did well. Better than most. But as you noted there are undertones of calling SAHMs lazy (unjustified if they are like your mom) there are definite undertones that women deserve a lot for being moms or SAHMs. The problem is the second they initiate divorce proceedings and put a price on what they have done, there is no logical way to justify what some women get. Nannies and cleaners do not get houses or half of everything when they quit.

My SO is a firm believer that women place themselves in a vulnerable position if they don't educate themselves. They can be SAHMs but knowing how to earn a living is no one else's responsibility but hers. This is not about a lack of gratitude. Moms that work hard do great stuff and families should show how grateful they are. But do they deserve half a millionaire's wealth? Is it fair to demand a house you never had to work in a company for? It is not easy because she has worked hard but someone has to earn money for a family to eat.

My mom worked very hard throughout my life, and I am extremely grateful for it. I am tired of hearing comments in real life and online that it's so easy and worthless.

It is not easy and not worthless. But the second they place a value on what they do, moms make it hard on themselves because the working world and the economy doesn't believe what she does earns the same as what company employees make. She should not be left out in the cold if the relationship fails but who initiates and whether anyone was abused should be taken into account. A wife who is just "not happy" and leaves a hard working man should not get as much as a woman who busted her ass and had to deal with an abusive asshole of a husband.

No one has it easy, OP. SAHMs who put in effort do work hard. But like I said, they chose to be SAHMs instead of working. It comes with challenges just like most jobs do. The difference is that people place a high value on it because of the emotional value attached to being a mom and the love they have for their kids. Take that away and you have a lot of effort for little financial reward. When she desires financial payback, the law might be on her side, but emotion aside, it becomes hard to justify the money when cleaners and nannies cost less.

HorusAeon · 2016-08-19T18:19:25+00:00

She did work hard, you should be proud of her and she did it out of love primarily, and not to whine about her 'sacrifices' like all the RPs do, hence her work is priceless.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-08-19T18:07:31+00:00

The time investment needed to maintain/operate a 2-5 person home is less than the average 40 hour work week.

PemBayliss · 2016-08-19T18:16:06+00:00

If divorce or financial problems happen, you will suffer.

Statistically, divorce will happen ONLY if the SAHM wants it. Most SAHMs who divorce are doing so of their own volition. If they are suffering, they brought it on themselves.

Women who stay at home are expected to do a million thankless tasks.

With most or all of today's modern conveniences, that's pretty easy. She has a working vehicle, and power/automatic everything. Washer, dryer, dishwasher, can opener, stove, appliances, lawn mower, etc. (EDIT: ALL paid for by her working husband -- she paid for NONE of it. End edit) She can get it all done in around 4 hours a day. While hubby slaves away at work 10+ hours a day.

She is responsible for the values her kids learn.

So is the father. Yes, she does more "hands on", but dad has a lot of influence too.

The work of an SAHM is by no means worthless. It's not easy. But it is do-able, manageable and certainly not backbreaking. It is much easier work than slaving away at a job all day, and SAHMing it is much less pressure than working a job. If it were different, women wouldn't be leaving the workforce in droves to stay home and care for kids, like they are doing and like many say they would do if they could afford it.

Scurvemuch · 2016-08-19T18:21:33+00:00

worthless.

Thats all you.

For reference, my mom worked two jobs, my dad one. My mom did all of the cooking and cleaning and so on. My dad occasionally helped if she got behind.

He also did home carpentry and so on so that we wouldn't have to spend money on crap he can make.

To this day, she will say that the EASY part was the housework.

for reference, I can replace all of my home related chores for about 500 bucks a month. large house. This includes having all my meals made for me.

prodigy2throw · 2016-08-19T18:42:36+00:00

SAHM's are prostitutes who exchange exclusive sex with one man for shelter, food and money.

poppyblu · 2016-08-19T21:40:55+00:00

I don't believe that anyone without an axe to grind truly believes SAHMs are inherently lazy. Sure there are some but there are also some lazy working moms too.

The mommy wars really are the purview of women. I've yet to see men engage in the debate. As women we can be hard on ourselves when it comes to our ability to be good mothers and feeling like we are making the right choices for our families. we need to give ourselves and each other a break and use that energy to support each other instead of tearing each other down.

I will say that for every comment I've seen calling SAHMs lazy, I've seen another from a SAHM admonishing working moms for being selfish and "letting someone else raise their kids." The venom goes both ways and it's just really time to put it to rest for good.

Edit: after reading the comments, I rescind. Men do engage but mostly to debate the financial and practical benefits of SAH vs work, while SAHMs are more likely to espouse the values argument.

literallyhere · 2016-08-20T01:41:53+00:00

Yes, I definitely agree that good SAHMs work hard. My mom worked very hard, less so now that we're all older but still at it. I also remember a study about how women are responsible for the majority of unpaid work, aka cooking, cleaning and other chores, and never get to fully "recharge" since they rarely have time where they aren't expected to do anything. Compared to a spouse who works a 9-5 job, while the work is difficult and stressful, when they get home or are off work they are for the most part not expected to do anything else. They have stress-free time.

Then of course there are SAHMs who do little and then nag their overworked husband to do chores when they get home until he finally leaves her. (This example is based on a friend of a friend, who gladly receives welfare, and sounds like a generally terrible mother and person.) I'm suspecting redpillers are often thinking of this version of a SAHM.

dadstartingover_com · 2016-08-19T18:37:44+00:00

I take care of three kids and a house all by myself (I work from home with an average of one or two meetings a week I make a two hour commute for). I do all of the little stuff needed on a daily basis to keep the ship afloat.

It's not hard work. It's fucking annoying monotonous work. A monkey could do it. Been looking into having a person come in to deep clean once a week. Average is $50 for their time.

It ain't construction. It's not designing a rocket. It's scrubbing floors and folding laundry. It's taco Tuesday.

trudatness · 2016-08-19T21:40:37+00:00

I was a stay at home dad for about a year. It was cake.

Heathcliff-- · 2016-08-19T19:10:37+00:00

Feminists try to economise benign tasks like housework.

Cooking and making sure the house is not a shithole every day is not equivalent to leaving the house to slave away for 8 hours on something you were specially trained to do, for someone else.

Housework is not equal or comparable to actual employment.

When you are at home cleaning the dishes and preparing food (that your husband provided) you are working for the family. I can't respect anyone who complains about doing things to support their family. How can you bitch about taking care of your children and husband as if you don't love them? I would do that shit AND work 8 hours a day if I had to.

The male employed elsewhere is working for his family too, except he is milked for all his labour from someone else. He is getting a much worse deal than you are. ALL your value goes towards your own family, he has to work extra hard to extract value from corporate overlords that want to rip him off for his labour as much as possible. He has a much more difficult task.

Stop complaining about housework. Being employed is not some noble ideal that we have all have to strive for; feminists have just drunk the capitalist kool aid.

If I could stay at home and keep my house in order and mooch of someone else doing so I sure as hell would. Women had SUCH a good deal in the past and they threw it all away for themselves. Well done ladies.

ThrowItDownSouth · 2016-08-19T22:42:45+00:00

Oh fuck off. It's not a hard job. If you think its a hard job you shouldn't have had kids.

Besides, after the age of 4 the 'job' is only two and a half months a year!!! After age 12, your kids should be self sufficient - if they aren't, you did a shitty job in the first place. And the older kids take care of the younger ones, if you've got a wide age spread. This is just whining.

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lbspredh · 2016-08-20T10:16:08+00:00

some do, some don't, same as any other occupation really. But then again you hear in certain media sources this idea that the working partner should still do half of the household chores despite being at work all day and it does seem a bit lazy to not have everything ship shape despite being at home all day

ThrowItDownSouth · 2016-08-20T17:26:36+00:00

I had a SAHM. She kept the house spotless. Beautiful garden (a hobby, not a chore) actually so nice we were the only ghetto townhouse on the city gardenwalk as we had some rarer Asian bamboo type shit. Homecooked meals, except for when we begged to eat out. Three dogs. Not a shitty mom. And our family was poorer so no outsourcing or anything - laundry, mending clothes, cook from scratch, even occasional odd jobs. She still had time to paint pictures all day and smoke weed constantly. I would kill to be a stay at home dad. I tried to find employment as a male nanny but nobody wanted one where I live.

czerdec · 2016-08-20T21:34:43+00:00

Look at teachers and the number of kids they deal with. However hard being a SAHM is, per hour on the job it's gotta be a small fraction of what a teacher needs to do.

Leeloooooooooooooooo · 2016-08-24T18:01:47+00:00

You are talking about white SAHMs.

Black SAHMs sit on their ass collecting welfare and serving their baby daddies for child support, dump their kids off at their Momma's/Auntie's/Cousin's house, and go out in the street all day to twerk...and then make more babies that grow up to be single moms and thugs.

In the rare moments black SAHMs are with their babies, they yell at them and spank them. I have literally heard black SAHMs tell kids in diapers to "shut the fuck up" when they are crying.

despisedlove2 · 2016-08-20T00:19:03+00:00

People who say that SAHM's are lazy, are delusional.

Entropy-7 · 2016-08-20T10:06:01+00:00

It's only at 3+ kids that SAHMs really "work". My sister opened her own daycare and she did "work" by taking care of a mitt full of toddlers for other working women as well as her own two.

But once the kids are school age (and in Ontario that means all-day kindergarten) there is not really that much to do.

yo_radical_one · 2016-08-19T21:16:50+00:00

Actual good SAHM's do work hard but many of them just fuck around on facebook and cackle with the slut crew which is lazy.

statsfodder · 2016-08-19T23:00:51+00:00

Yeah cause getting the kids to school, an hour of "housework" followed by coffee with the girls is "hard work"... I'll gladly swap my fulltime job and weekend job to be a SAHD in a heartbeat!

Title	SAHM's work hard
Author	Circlesquare1
Upvotes	6
Comments	215
Date	August 19, 2016 5:38 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4yk84e/sahms_work_hard/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/sahms-work-hard.273490 https://theredarchive.com/post/273490

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