What are shit tests, really?

hyperrreal · 2017-06-28T03:08:50+00:00

I can't speak to how the TRP forum is using the term now, but I can explain it's original meaning.

A shit test is a semi-antagonistic verbal game women throw at men who they know are trying to sleep with them. Usually, it's in the context of an aggressive/forward pick-up attempt by a guy.

Part of the problem with how you're trying to understand it, is that you're looking at the explicit content, rather than the subtext of the interaction. Take the request "will you hold my purse for a second?"

If your girlfriend of three years asks you that, and you have a good relationship, it's not a shit test. If your sister asks you that, it's not a shit test. These are straightforward, direct requests for assistance.

However, if someone you're hitting on at the bar asks you that, and they are considering sleeping with you, it's probably a test to see how easy you are to control/tool around, how interesting you are, etc. There's any number of ways to "pass," but if you stand there and hold the bag waiting her to come back, it's over.

The key is understanding that most shit-tests occur during the time when a woman is considering sleeping with you. As soon as she's decided one way or the other, shit testing will probably stop.

I can explain more in terms of why shit tests often take certain forms, and why TRP/PUA advocates certain responses, but not sure if that would be helpful.

GinSmokeLies · 2017-06-28T02:53:00+00:00

Thanks for this thread OP. Shit tests are maybe the most confusing TRP concept to me. I understand the idea in theory, but like you it seems to me that the parameters are poorly defined and arbitrary.

Electra_Cute · 2017-06-28T02:40:39+00:00

There is a sort of pragmatism behind treating almost every interaction as a "shit test, but for the most part I do not think that individuals are giving out tests to others so consistently and with that intention in mind.

Temperfuelmma · 2017-06-28T04:04:09+00:00

Shit tests are advanced level social interaction. It's not your typical social interaction because there is a lot of subtext and subconscious behavior.

I don't know how to explain it but when you reach a particular stage you can see beyond certain social interactions. "Shit testing" is basically a low-key aggression by a woman to assess whether the man that's trying to sleep with her will fight, flight or freeze when faced with aggression.

If you can't understand what shit test is then practice, practice, practice. Go out, interact with others and if you still can't do it try actively analyzing social interactions instead of everything to follow along intuitively.

RockinSocksII · 2017-06-28T02:39:04+00:00

It seems like they consider whatever could "impede" them getting laid a shit test.

despisedlove2 · 2017-06-28T02:48:04+00:00

You answered your own question.

In every public interaction, you are judged. In a romantic interaction, doubly so, because a basis for anything long term is being explored. In a long term relationship, even more so, because women usually try to shift the power balance towards themselves, and demand dominance at the same time.

Not every interaction is a shit test, but a man is never going to do worse by assuming that it is. Making the opposite assumption is too risky. Even the most experienced man is not going to be able to detect every shit test.

ThatGreekLady · 2017-06-28T02:38:52+00:00

It's a completely vague term that can mean anything. According to Heartiste "I like your clothes" is a shit-test.

Look, I don't doubt that women sometimes act emotionally and irrationally. I don't even doubt that women are sometimes "teasing" or even "challenging" men. However, TRPillers will just label anything as a shit-test. It's ridiculous.

bala-key · 2017-06-28T05:30:00+00:00

Shit testing is basically asking the question: "can you stand up to psychological abuse or are you a poser who folds like a bitch under pressure".

The literature sometimes calls them 'congruence tests' or 'fitness tests'.

It's an evolved behavior, I'd say at least 70% unconscious. Male groups do it to maintain dominance hierarchies and to see if they can trust the dude with their back in survival situations. It's called 'busting each other's balls'.

Females do it because they need to determine if the guy is mentally fit enough to be a mate. Can he protect her in a high stress situation? Can he stand up to external aggression? Can he stand up to social / verbal manipulation?

Children also do constant testing it, but they use it to test boundaries.

IME the shit testing never stops even in an LTR. Sometimes there is more, sometimes less, but it never truly goes away (unless the relationship is dead). You pass, it's like foreplay. You fail -> disappointment. You keep failing for months / years -> betaification, loss of attraction.

There is a related concept in LTRs: comfort tests. It's used by the female to answer the question: 'do you still find me attractive, am I still important to you'.

It's crucial to tell them apart, because they require very different responses (very roughly joke / NGAF for shit tests, comfort for comfort tests -- d'uh!).

Sometimes, for some women it gets really bad, because they need comfort but lash out at the same time. These are 'shitty comfort tests'. Those are tricky.

TheGreasyPole · 2017-06-28T08:58:40+00:00

Bit late the party but I'll have a go.

A shit test is basically a dominance test. It is an attempt to see where you believe you sit relative to the other person in the human dominance hierarchy. Probably the best way to explain is to use an example from an explicit dominance hierarchy.

So... at work.... there are things it's entirely appropriate for your boss to ask you, but not for you to ask your boss, as he/she sits above you in the dominance hierarchy.

If you are in a meeting, and "sue", another employee, is running late... it is appropriate for your boss to say to you "go and fetch sue, we need her for this meeting" and expect you to comply. It is NOT appropriate for you to say to your boss "go and fetch sue, she's late and we need her". Your boss will look at you like you've grown a 2nd head if you do that.

This is because he/she is above you in that dominance hierarchy. So it's appropriate for him to ask you to do a small task like this, but not appropriate for you to ask in reverse. You get that, right ?

Now imagine we've got a man and a woman and they do not know where they sit relative to each other in an implicit dominance hierarchy. Whether you are "more dominant" than her, or vice versa.

She wants to know this, as women are generally attracted to males that are higher in the hierarchy than them, and not attracted to males lower in the hierarchy than them.

So she will ask you to perform a small inconsequential task.

If you react like "your boss" would, and by doing so telegraph that you believe you are higher than her she gets the impression you are more dominant, like the boss at work. If you accede to the request she knows you "feel" that you are subordinate to her in the hierarchy, you are acting submissive to her wishes, this places you in the "subordinate/employee" position and her as "the boss".

As you'll know, women are attracted to the higher dominance males. If you acceded to the task she knows where you place yourself f (lower than her). You have failed her "dominance" or "shit" test.

Humans are social animals, and so they are testing these relative positions all the time. I disagree with hyperreal that this is an "early stage of the relationship" thing. It happens any time any human wants to "test" your position relative to them in the hierarchy. Either because they are unsure of your relative positions OR because they want to enforce their current understanding of relative position.

So in the case of the wife who is already in the dominant position with her husband.... She will continue to throw these tests in order to both keep testing that she is still "on top" and also to reinforce that message to you. This dynamic is most easily seen in the hen pecked husband scenario where she is constantly throwing menial tasks at him, to which he replies consistently with a "Yes, dear. Of course, dear". By doing so he is constantly reinforcing and reconfirming to her that she is placed higher in the hierarchy than him, and every time he does so she loses a little more respect and a little more attraction.

This is not to say every normal request is a shit test. People need help with stuff.

But where it is anclearly menial task, that she could easily do herself, and she is expecting you to do it for her she is behaving like a dominant person in the hierarchy.

Do, when she is busy with the kids, and cooking a meal, and on the phone at the same time ... "can you get me a glass of water" is just a request.

When you are both sitting on the couch, watching the TV, and doing nothing, and she asks "can you go fetch me a glass of water?" (A task she could easily do herself) it's a dominance test, or shit test. She is using her superior rank in the hierarchy to make you do things she could as easily do herself.

To go back to the boss example... he could clearly go get sue for the meeting. But as he's higher in the hierarchy he gets you to do it, and you comply.

As you could also do the task, you attempting to make the boss do it would be a challenge to his dominant position... hence why he'd look at you as though you'd grown a second head if you asked him.

This is what shit testing is. Women "pinging" you to test whether you consider yourself "below or above her" in the primate hierarchy and/or enforcing her superior position if she has it.

This is why MRP advises hubby's to start refusing. By doing so they are responding to her "ping" with a message that says "I no longer consider myself subordinate to you, you are no longer above me. I will not respond to you anymore like an employee would respond to a boss".

Whilst this will cause a dominant wife to flip her shit. (BecUse she'd consider this disrespectful of the position she thinks she has, like a boss) over time if you hold this line she will come to believe "hubby is higher in the hierarchy than he was before" you will appear more dominant, and the disgust she feels for having a subordinate/submissive/"lower in hierarchy" mate will fade and be replaced by a natural attraction to a more dominant/"higher in the hierarchy" male.

GoldPilot · 2017-06-28T14:29:47+00:00

It's always stricken me as insecure. Even if it isn't a hardball question, action (or lack thereof), or comment, the moment an inquiry or interaction makes the involved RPer uncomfortable, it's regarded as a Shit Test.

I don't doubt that the concept exists; certainly some people will bust your balls and stress-test you before deciding to give you their attention. But, a lot of these alleged Shit Tests basically boil down to "anything that challenges my comfort, intentional or otherwise."

GSstreetfighter · 2017-06-28T03:10:21+00:00

My fiance met me at the airport with her two cousins in tow, one of whom had a baby. Now, she had already decided I was to be the father of her children, but some demonstration of suitability was needed for her cousins, I guess. Right there and then, I had to change cousins babies' nappie, after a fifteen hour flight. Dog and pony show continued out at the carpark, where I had to drive the lot of us home, my first time in a RHD car. This was my shit test, literally, a dirty diaper demo.

exit_sandman · 2017-06-28T04:24:42+00:00

"Tell me what is your idea of a perfect Sunday afternoon?" Choose your answer carefully otherwise you'll fail her test.

disposable_pants · 2017-06-28T05:22:10+00:00

No, every social interaction and every statement or question I make leads to a response from you which you will be judged on. The idea of a shit test is then defunct, because every social interaction is by that definition a shit test.

Not all statements/questions are shit tests. A shit test is when a person is interested in the form of the response more than they're interested in the response itself.

Imagine being asked "How would you go about getting to China?" by someone interviewing you for a job. They don't really want to know how to get to China; they can figure that out for themselves. They care about the form of your answer: Can you speak well extemporaneously? Do you ask clarifying questions (if so, what kind)? How much detail do you go into? Now imagine being asked "How would you go about getting to China?" by a friend who's never been out of the country and is asking you because you've traveled abroad before. They don't care about how nicely you package your answer -- they actually want information on getting to China.

This is why statements like "hold my bag for me" and "I have a boyfriend" are considered shit tests by TRP (they're talking about when these phrases are used by women to examine the form of the response) but don't immediately register as a shit test to you (you're thinking of when these phrases are used by women to make a simple request, or to merely convey information).

Merger-Arbitrage · 2017-06-28T12:50:33+00:00

Shit-test ; 2017 Manospheria definition: any negative/socially-retarded/inconvenient behavior by someone else towards you.

GroovyEFS · 2017-06-28T09:25:43+00:00

I honestly think this is pretty gender neutral, it's just men and women do it in different ways. The basic premise is probing for weakness by seeing how you react to certain situations. Men and women both do this, just in their own ways, and obviously when the topic of discussion is dating and sexual advice for men it's gonna be focused on how women do it.

I've had guys I've just met ask if they can borrow a little money off me, and I of course said no, but they were doing that not because they need a tenner desperately but because they wanna see how much of a pushover I am for bigger things in the future.

A woman could do the same thing with a guy she's considering as a new boyfriend, ask for fancy gifts an see if he actually does it.

Scurvemuch · 2017-06-28T12:06:22+00:00

At bar :

"I don't really like bald men"

is she saying she won't sleep with me? is she just making a remark. omg what to do what to do ??!!

my usual answer "you will in about an hour"

Daniel_Bryan_Fan · 2017-06-28T18:51:37+00:00

"Babe, I slipped in the shower and fallen through our glass shower door slicing my femoral artery, please call an ambulance"

"Hold on a sec I gotta go ask my anonymous "friends" on the internet how I should handle this shit test"

delight_delirium · 2017-06-28T16:11:38+00:00

Yeah. It seems like these women have thoughts and curiosity and insecurities and want to know more about their potential partner. And it's impossible to know the right answer to these, because each individual woman has their own perspective. What bitches!

SkinnySweaty · 2017-06-29T02:18:17+00:00

"Shit Tests" are an explainer for the folks who don't realize that they are being observed, analyzed, and judged every second of their lives by everyone they come into contact with, and doing the same to everyone they meet as well.

To imagine that there is some super special secret test beyond that is ridiculous.

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abicus4343 · 2017-06-28T05:13:57+00:00

Shit tests show a man's social standing, self respect, character, what they will put up with and how far they will let you push them, also your standing with them. Men that can't handle shit tests are easily weeded out as weak. It's a very good way to quickly and easily sort the wheat from the chaff.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-06-28T05:31:39+00:00

People tend to GREATLY overthink the idea of the shit test, it in itself is not important for the same reason you say: all the interactions you have with a girl is arguably a "test" because by acting like a submissive bitch you can "fail" at any time.

"Shit test" is an early PUA term that was simply meant to explain why women you get along with sometimes say offensive or seemingly antagonistic things out of the blue, and what you should do about them.

The reason for the classical iconic test is simple: she is asking in a roundabout fashion, "who are you really? You act this way, but how do you act when I throw THIS at you?" And yes, it can be intentional or unintentional- no more of a formal test than when a person "tests" the ice on a lake to see if it is safe to walk on.

The best way to pass a shit test is to do nothing, especially if you do natural game. Natural game is all about being authentic, so why would you change your behavior when she tests you? TRP is a variant on natural game and they would probably describe the solution to this as "holding frame" which just means to not change your perspective (or how you act.)

yolo_tomassi · 2017-06-28T08:01:15+00:00

It's the mental tool thing.

Like religious people saying "God is testing me". I think there probably isn't a God thats fucking with them & assigning letter grades but the sentiment does buttress people's determination & resilience regardless.

It's specifically referring to points where you can really tank your attractiveness which deserve a bit of extra attention if you're talking about sex & relationships. Every one of those example questions is an opportunity for a guy to get butthurt even though they really are all just normal conversation. Guys test in different contexts with different goals, risks & tradeoffs so is a little out of scope for inter gender discussion as well as being way more common & overt in a guys life.

Back to the god metaphor - what all the fuss about is this:

https://youtu.be/lAG11t3bkj4?t=207

Five_Decades · 2017-06-28T18:39:37+00:00

Shit tests are more tests women use to determine how much protection and fidelity they can expect from a man. Since for a woman, to procreate requires a 10-20 year investment she wants to test his character to see if he really has alpha traits or provider traits, or if he is just pretending.

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-06-29T22:14:24+00:00

It's whenever a woman isn't doing exactly what a guy wants her to do. If he tells her "make me a sammich" and she says "sorry, I just worked 16 hours and need a break" it's a shit test.

Kralee · 2017-06-28T03:12:26+00:00

Now I could be wrong, but I believe a shit test is simply a test to see how much shit you can get away with.

This is not specific to women and is certainly done by all sexes towards all sexes. We learn to administer shit tests against authority figures when we are children simply to see how bad we can be before the consequences fall upon us.

As children if the shit test is stopped quickly before the envelope is pushed too far and punishment it received promptly there is less of a chance that shit test will be tested again anytime soon.

So again I believe, and I could be wrong, the idea that TRP has regarding shit tests is to identify them quickly, shut them down, and don't let a girl walk all over you.

of course it's all situational but if the relationship is new could the simple phrase "Hold my bag for me!” or “Will you go and get me a coffee?” actually be just the very beginning of testing to see how far a person will go for you?

OurThrownAwayDreams · 2017-06-28T05:44:25+00:00

dumb game for immature people looking for a way to size you up in the most reductive way possible.

Love8Death · 2017-06-28T12:15:49+00:00

It's an excuse for terpers to act like immature assholes.

md8716 · 2017-06-28T05:33:19+00:00

Best way I've seen it described is that a shit test is basically testing your fitness to be the leader in a relationship.

It's like when kids test boundaries with an adult to see what they can get away with. If you're too lenient, then they, like women, won't respect you and will do whatever they want. A lack of respect leads to contempt and kills the sex drive.

Ironically, like kids, the vast majority of women don't actually want the burden of responsibility by being the leader in a relationship (a good example is how most women absolutely hate initiating).

A comfort test is a test of trust. A lack of trust leads to insecurity and also kills sex drive.

[deleted] · 2017-06-28T03:39:05+00:00

When a woman's feeble mind tells her to test her man to make sure his is the right guy to have children with.

Title	What are shit tests, really?
Author	TheChemist158
Upvotes	21
Comments	240
Date	June 28, 2017 2:36 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6jxq9p/what_are_shit_tests_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-are-shit-tests-really.267317 https://theredarchive.com/post/267317

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