I've been thinking this for a long time but I haven't gotten around to posting it.

chalengr · 2011-05-05T14:55:08+00:00

Ultimately, pickup is a science. We create theories to explain observed human behaviors. Then we test these theories infield, to see whether they are good models of the truth.

Yes, science can be abused. Just as chemistry can teach us how to make bombs, pickup can teach us how to hurt others. I don't deny that pickup can lead to terrible results, some of which you listed, and I agree that many walk down this road into a dark place. But that is no fault of the science, it is the fault of the guy who uses bombs to manipulate people to get what he wants. But not every chemist becomes the Unabomber, and the Unabomber is not a reason to ban chemistry.

Finally, I don't agree that all the women picked up using seduction methods are "a certain type of woman". While some methods are indeed shallow, I don't agree that all pickup methods are shallow. And I don't agree that understanding socializing mechanically makes the socializing any less meaningful. That's like saying using science to understand life makes life less meaningful. Actually, you just appreciate it even more, for its microscopic beauty, its hidden complexities, and its orderly nature.

For me, pickup has led me to learn about psychology, philosophy, and find my moral direction in life. Because of the things I've learned via pickup, I want to become a stronger man, a man of action, a man of principle, and a leader of men. I've come to understand and appreciate the feminine a lot more. The principles here -- becoming an unstifled individual, unhindered by fear, who knows what he wants and goes after what he wants -- apply to all areas of life.

Knowledge is power. Knowledge is freedom. Fuck the biblical "apple and snake" story that teaches people to be ignorant.

frogma · 2011-05-05T16:22:14+00:00

OP, I know we got off on the wrong foot. You'll be criticized by pretty much everyone here who's browsed seddit for longer than a week. There's a lot you can still learn from seddit if you open yourself up to it. Like someone else said, you really have to watch what you're doing- you're in a relationship now (probably by doing quite a few "seduction techniques," but let's ignore that), but if you drop the qualities that make you attractive, your relationship won't last. Here's a comment I made the other day that's pretty relevant to this post:

Here's how it works:

Most people think of the seduction community as "Mystery wannabes in furry purple top-hats." Most people literally know nothing about it, so their judgments are based purely on hearing the term "Pick-Up Artist" and thinking, "My god, these guys are manipulative douchebags! Fuck them! You don't need to manipulate women! Blah blah blah!" even though they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

Chumps might hear more in-depth shit about seduction and think "But wait a minute! This is pure manipulation!" They think it's manipulation simply because a guy becomes more self-aware, dominant, and shit like that. To those guys, all I can say is: Look at anyone who's dominant- if you're not like them, they'll probably seem manipulative to you. Is that their fault, or yours? If you're not good at picking up social cues or interacting with women, they'll probably seem manipulative to you. Again, there's no reason to take issue with them. [Some people- including women- even think it's "creepy" just to approach a girl in the first place. Those people are fuckin idiots, and their subjective opinions carry no weight whatsoever.]

Some guys have certain limited experience and they think "I don't need to do all this shit to get women!" First, those guys have limited experience, so their opinions are somewhat irrelevant. Second, they've probably done quite a few of the "techniques" without realizing it. In other words, the only difference between them and a noob PUA is they aren't aware of what they're doing or why it's working/not working.

Some guys are naturals, and you'll see them hating on the community with much more conviction. Like the guys in point 3, these guys don't realize a lot of the "techniques" are the same things they naturally do. Chances are, they also don't take much time to look through material or posts so they don't get a chance to see the similarities before blindly bashing the community (this is true for a lot of people). I was of the same mindset when I first heard about the community- then I actually read some of the shit and saw that I'd already been using a lot of the "techniques."

Girls hate the community the most. Which is totally understandable, but also hypocritical, and they (ignorantly) have the perspective of the "victim." The truth is, a lot of the community "techniques" are the same "techniques" girls use on guys (as well as what "alpha males" use on girls). They dress nice to get noticed, they use body language and kino, many of them are open to sex- but they can't convey their desires overtly, and it's long been understood that girls are the prize. The seduction community is really about taking girls off their pedestals and flipping the script on them.

You can ignore pretty much every other piece of advice- as long as you're confident and know how to take the woman off her pedestal, you'll be much more successful than the average Joe. The community is here to show you how to do that. Because human interaction is complicated as hell (and dependent on a bunch of things outside our control, as well as a bunch of things we can control), it's hard to just tell a guy "Be confident and take the pussy off the pedestal." His next question will be "How the fuck do I do that, exactly?"

Anyone who thinks the community is about something else either doesn't understand the community or they have their own prejudices/biased viewpoints that affect their judgment. Case in point: hundreds of mPUAs exist who all have their own "methods". They often disagree with each other. The community can't be defined by a specific set of rules or a specific subset of beliefs, SO IT SHOULDN'T BE JUDGED THAT WAY.

For every Mystery, there's a David Wygant; for every David Wygant, there's a Gunwitch; for every Gunwitch, there's a totally normal dude who just wants to be better with women.

tl;dr- The only universal goal among "members" of the "community" is to get better with women. If some people think we're assholes for that reason, those people are assholes, IMO.

Also, like you said, OP, some people are manipulative and they do things that aren't congruent with their character, or they play "Asshole Game" just because it often works. Those guys are in the minority, but people assume they represent everyone else. It's possible to change that assumption- and guys have done that in interviews and shit- but if someone didn't watch the interview, they'll still make that assumption.

And, honestly, saying the community is "manipulative" is like saying professional baseball players are manipulative because they work on their technique, they practice a lot, they study film/pitchers, and they do everything in their power to increase their success. Whereas some inexperienced little-leaguer is somehow more legit because he doesn't do any of that shit. Fuck that.

yokhai · 2011-05-05T15:32:30+00:00

None of the bad things you said is what the seduction community preaches, its what people who don't understand the seduction community take from lack of coaching and context.

This is the problem with most guys who "get into the community" by just skimming articles, reading about routines and quickNdirty advice. They don't get the scale, the detail and the nuances required that a person who is actually a part of the community would.

The problem you seem to have is the same with anyone who only takes a cursory glance at us, and that's you lack perspective. Also you are jaded by your own insecurities and guilt.

howdoiupvote · 2011-05-05T18:16:02+00:00

Totally agree with you. Reading pickup material fucked me up for a long time. I was taking the whole girls thing way too seriously which made me even more unattractive and not having any luck with chicks at all was making me depressed. I realised one day what was happening and completely stopped reading rsdnation, watching videos about pickup etc.

Becoming someone who is attractive to women = great. Talking to other like-minded men about this = great. However if you get caught up in the bullshit of field reports, pickup lingo and measuring your self worth by how many phone numbers you got that week, you can easily do more damage to yourself than good.

Edit: Re-read your post. I don't completely agree. The community can be an awesome thing if you use it properly. But ultimately just getting out there and drawing your own conclusions about girls and life is far more valuable than anything you read on here.

eablokker · 2011-05-05T14:59:49+00:00

It's simple. You have a girlfriend now. You're looking at it from the other side of the fence. There are completely different skills required to maintain a relationship, which are completely counter to and opposite from skills needed to meet and date new women. So naturally you're taking a negative view of the community. The skills taught by the community are not necessary for you anymore. Thanks for sharing.

karmawhopper · 2011-05-05T14:16:16+00:00

The Key to seddit is the self confidence thing...the seduction community can't tell you what to say to girls it but it can give you the confidence to say SOMETHING to them. The rest is up to you bud.

frogma · 2011-05-05T14:07:40+00:00

Everything you said about the seduction community is not what I think of the seduction community. I think you're completely wrong. Your experiences were probably influenced by your own understanding (or lack of it).

Take it from a guy who's never had much of a problem with women. I could specifically counter each statement you made, but someone like you comes here every week to say stupid shit like this, and it's getting old.

Later Edit: OP, did you come here from another subreddit? Feels like there's an influx of guys coming here from somewhere else today. I should've just avoided this fuckin post.

unsexyMF · 2011-05-05T14:31:13+00:00

You're not alone in this vein of thinking. Read anything by Mark Manson or 60 Years of Challenge.

EasyJim · 2011-05-05T17:53:57+00:00

Sex isn't the ultimate goal - but if it were, so what? People have sex. Men and women like having sex. Let's get together and have us some sex. I see nothing wrong with taking a girl you just met on a wild adventure and giving her the time of her life. If you're both enjoying yourselves, then so what?

Also, adbundance mentality isn't the same thing as "women are stupid and disposable". It's simply a very simple philosophy: "more fish in the sea," and all that jazz. Don't get caught up on one woman. Don't chase a girl around for weeks (hours, months) hoping she'll finally notice you. If she's not into you, she's not into you.

SniffyCrayon · 2011-05-05T19:08:19+00:00

Although some things you say have some validity to them, not everyone believes in what your'e saying. I for one, don't believe that women are disposable or stupid. I don't use the community to manipulate women and deceive them into having sex with me. I take the advice and self-improvement to help myself evolve and grow as a human being. Also, rarely do I go out to "sarge" with my sole intent on picking up women. I use the techniques and skills I learned from the community to enhance my relationships with others and help me to find someone who I can truly care about.

bleedsread5 · 2011-05-06T00:03:47+00:00

The majority of Sedditors don't come off to me as socially awkward or predatory. I feel like this community does a great job at evaluating social dynamics and helps people achieve a higher value in themselves and confidence in all ideas of life. These people really remind me of friendly ents from /r/trees.

2011-05-05T17:17:35+00:00

You seem to have a very shallow understanding of what seduction is and choose to ignore the reality that people have individual choice.

There are many veins of thought in the seduction community, with an overall goal of being successful with women. So naturally, the question is, how do you measure success? The general yardstick is positive interactions. Remember, many of these guys have been more or less socially inept and have been ingrained with a certain understanding of how they should interact with women through years of hollywood and disney films. These behaviors (supplicating, being available, grand gestures of romances) range from being unattractive (yes men) to downright creepy (professing your love for a girl you've just met). The first step is to admit that there's a problem; this happens when they come looking for the seduction community.

These guys (AFCs as they're called) know that something is wrong because whatever it is their doing isn't resulting in the positive interactions that hollywood's promised. These guys may be following the romantic comedy script or the script that cars/money/houses/jobs lead to women. We all know this is wrong, the only type of women that material things will attract are material women (this follows naturally). AFCs starting out are lost and clueless. Seduction provides some behavioral changes which generally lead to instant results. For instance, the first two things I learned was keep eye contact and to touch people when I talk to them. To this day, I still catch myself looking at people's mouths instead of eyes when I talk to them. This yielded very positive results when I field tested it at the start of a semester in college, engaging myself with a beautiful girl with some of the stuff I'd learned about holding a conversation, being playful, and touching. I still lacked confidence, so it took me a month and a half after she took my phone and put her number into it before I stammeringly asked her if she wanted to get coffee sometime. We kept in contact for about a year after that class before my ridiculously unrealistic expectations caused me to implode that friendship. However, those few tips from seduction caused me to have the courage to talk to this girl instead of just oogling from the side and not even approaching nor taking the chance. Instead of assuming she didn't want to talk to me, I realized I wanted to talk to her and did it. For the AFC, this is a powerful realization - do what you want to do, not what you think she wants you to do.

The reality of the situation is this; there are a lot of women out there in the world. Being clingy and obsessive over one single woman is both creepy and unattractive. Being perceived as clingy will not lead to a successful relationship with an independent woman. As a man, you should be a pleasure, not a burden. It follows that if you're stuck on one girl without having good reason, you will NOT be successful with that girl. Who is this guy? Why is he obsessing over me? If I don't want to see him, will he be the type to linger? Accepting that there are many women in the world helps with not obsessing while making an AFC more attractive by not being irrationally possessive.

The final thing that seduction really teaches is that there is nothing wrong with being honest and expressing yourself fully, even if this might offend people. The corollary to this is that you should go for what you want. Seduction provides the tools to do this.

Naturally, individuals having different goals. Some might want to sleep with a ton of women, and so they use their new tools and confidence to attract and seduce women, take them to bed, and leave them the next morning. This is one's personal morality and one's personal choices. To say this is exclusive to people in PUA is pretty blatant lie. Furthermore, not all women want long term monogamous relationships, and your implication that PUA results in only shallow, deceivable women says more about you than it does the community. Ask any woman, a confident, grounded man is incredibly attractive - it doesn't matter what their position in life is.

As you should know, there are a few women in /seddit. One of the recurring things that I've found to be interesting is the notion that these women know about attraction, what things can generate attraction, and when they're out, recognizing the gimmicks and tactics, they still go with the flow. They allow themselves to be charmed and seduced knowing exactly what's going on. All women know what's going on when there's an interaction, at least to some extent. If you're really worried about women being deceived and used, the solution should be simple. Provide them with the same knowledge that we have, the knowledge of what creates attraction, and let them recognize when it's being applied. Let them analyze their interactions, judge the people who they interact with in their lives, and make informed decisions about who they end up with. White knighting over the internet for strangers and telling me about how meaningless my relationships are surely isn't the way I would start this dialogue.

tl;dr -- All women are attracted to confident, grounded men. Seduction provides the tools for men to be confident and grounded.

chL41 · 2011-05-05T16:11:28+00:00

Ugh this reads like the post of an entitled prick who got his first girlfriend and thinks he knows all women.

The main points thrown out on seddit are:

Be confident. If you can't be because you suck, work on not sucking.
Get out there. Actually APPROACH women because that's how seduction works. Women don't approach (or seldom do), men are supposed to, and one step many seem to forget is that one. One of my friends is single and waiting for it to just happen. It won't.
Be smart/funny and adapt your topics to the girl/yourself. On dates, I talk a lot about sciency stuff because it passions me. Trust me, they listen and like it. I then do my share of listening because women like to be listened.

The "tricks" or wathever it is you refer to are just ways of starting conversations. That's often the hard one, since everyone has shit to do and doesn't really care to talk to others unless they're hot, which most people are not.

Noone here is advocating what you say. Sex isn't something to be won, it's something to be shared. We all say that multiple times a day.

You talk about getting into relationships with the wrong type of women or whatever. You know what,t he only way of knowing that you got the right one is to have gone through a lot. You can't go through a lot if you're not seducing. Your theory is flawed.

chumpta · 2011-05-05T18:56:44+00:00

damn son this is r/seduction not r/criticizeseduction. i believe that's actually called "the rest of reddit"

women are stupid and disposable,

some are, some aren't. it helps to know which ones are which. perhaps repeated exposure to women in social situations would do the trick! but what would we call it?

dating is a game like risk that can be won,

i don't really think that. it can definitely be lost, however.

having sex is the ultimate goal

having sex is the immediate goal, not the ultimate one.

a certain type of woman

this is always the most offensive line that anti kids come up with. a woman is susceptible to sexual desire so she is "a certain type." derogation is implied. a close corollary is the idea of a "bar girl" or a "club girl." there are all types of fucking people in bars and clubs, and there are all types of girls who have sex. in a way, it is true that certain girls are more susceptible to pickup - the ones with functioning vaginas, usually.

It could also lead to misogyny

i've observed that the quickest, most thorough way to misogyny is involuntary celibacy.

I find the whole community shallow and generally self destructive.

this conclusion is usually reached after a shallow look at the whole thing.

I can't imagine good relationships will come out of this either.

welp, duconihilum can't imagine it... time to pack it in kids, looks like this guy figured it all out.

So, what are your thoughts?

honestly, my thoughts when confronted with this type of post are usually "go away," "why are you here even," etc... but you seem like you really want to know so that's ok i guess. it's probably been said already but seduction is a tool. you can use it wisely or poorly. The little attention that this "community" gets is obviously going to be of the distorted, "look at this asshole and what he is doing, he is bad" type.

at the end of the day all's fair in love and war. trickery and deceit on the sexual market didn't crop up in the early 2000's in a neil strauss book. said book hardly even promoted trickery and deceit anyway, so that point is rather moot, i guess. the real question is, who the fuck cares and why? you can learn a bit about yourself by pondering why this shit bothers you so much.

tarnok · 2011-05-05T23:56:02+00:00

Troll.

BlooDuke · 2011-05-05T14:03:58+00:00

I agree. I look to seddit to help me improve my social skills, lead a more fulfilling life etc... Is there a different subreddit I should be looking at that is more about communication and self-improvement and less about pick-up?

kwood09 · 2011-05-05T22:47:59+00:00

This is something I've always wanted to say, and I have to admit that I'm shocked that the seddit community hasn't downvoted your post into oblivion. So I'll say it:

Truly confident guys don't go home and post about how confident they are online. Confident guys are secure. A lot of seddit is...well...douchebags. Cocky. Not really a smooth, steady, confident.

So, I know perfectly well that it's possible to get girls by acting this way. I'm in a fraternity on a college campus. I know the scene all too well. But my point is that seddit always tries to prescribe certain, specific behaviors. "Always ignore her text the first time." "Never ask her if she wants to hang out. Say, 'Shots, my place, ten o'clock, bitch.'" Maybe not the "bitch" part. But you get what I'm saying.

If that's your thing, that's fine. And I'm not dissing the seddit community all together; I've seen a lot of worthwhile discussion. I'm just talking about the lowest common denominator of posts. Because there are completely legitimate people on this forum. I'm just saying the lowest common denominator is kind of a douche-frat-cocky persona.

heckz · 2011-05-06T00:42:06+00:00

I had a girlfriend for a long time, and I realized that it fell apart partly because I didn't practice a lot of what could be learned from this community.

zezozio · 2011-05-05T16:19:23+00:00

Yep. After having thought about it for quite a bit of time, what bothers me the most with "the game" and PUA approach is that... it works so well.

Most of what I've seen in "the scene" were afraid little boys too busy manipulating their ways into girls pants to get really emotionally intimate with them.

But, hey, if that helps some guys getting confident, assertive, going out of their shell and move along the way (aka "grow up")... why not!

joazito · 2011-05-05T16:55:15+00:00

I completely disagree with the community pushing your "bad" lessons. I don't perceive that to be true at all. Some bad apples maybe, but they're usually called out pretty quickly and are not ingrained in the true community spirit.

2011-05-05T15:37:49+00:00

What i think is that these are very normal thoughts for a man to have when entering his first relationship. Prepare to have shitty breakup; stop being such a beta.

KingOfKong423 · 2011-05-05T16:12:37+00:00

I completely disagree. I kinda went through the same evolution as you though. I had these thoughts. You know when I had them? When I was in a relationship. You start to think you don't need this stuff and that all those 'pickup' guys are acting like assholes. You know what happened? My girlfriend left me? You know why? Because she was seeing another guy behind my back. Wanna know why she was doing that? Because I completely abandoned all the rules and skills I learned in the pickup community before I got a girlfriend. These aren't rules to teach you how to be an asshole. These are guidelines and tips on how to not get fucked over, to make better, more quality friendships, and to find how to not be ashamed of who you are. The pickup community is one of the best parts of my life (besides fapping, of course).

T3hJ3hu · 2011-05-05T16:18:52+00:00

It is what you make of it. Seduction doesn't tell you which girls to go after, nor does it tell you what you should aim for. It's a tool; that's all. It helps you understand how women think and what they expect. It shows you a variety of ways to build your confidence and get acclimated to social settings. The community itself offers help and support when it might not otherwise be accessible. Most importantly, it teaches you how to be yourself and have fun with it.

I'm not really into random hookups, but I apply what I know on a daily basis. I look people in the eye now, regardless of where the encounter is taking place or who they are. I start up random conversations with anyone I'm sharing a space with. If I find a woman I'm interested in being with, I use what I've learned from Seduction and my own experience to build attraction -- and then I continue to do so, keeping my relationships fresh and fun.

Certainly, many men use it to get frequent hookups. So what? Mind your own god damn business. What two consenting adults do in their spare time is none of your concern, and quite frankly, worrying about it makes you judgmental and inconsiderate (not to mention that it's a sign of insecurity).

Any relationship founded on lies is going to have problems -- but if you're lying about who you are, then you're doing it wrong. A lot of idiots try to succeed by taking someone else's style or applying "the perfect technique", then find that they're having problems in their relationships because they can't keep their act up. At its base, that's not what Seduction is. It's about building yourself up, so that you're comfortable being you even in the face of certain failure. It's about becoming a man.

otakuman · 2011-05-05T17:25:39+00:00

Seduction newbie here. From what I've read, many of the techniques here is only to get the girl to become interested in you. The rest depends on you actually being an interesting and worthy person.

I've also read that a women just ignores a guy precisely because she believes he's only trying to have sex with her. In reality, most guys just want a girlfriend. (Whether or not sex is implied in a relationship, is another business).

Men come in here to answer a riddle: How do I approach the girl I like? Also, if we had opportunities to meet nice girls and become friends, later engage in a relationship, we would take them. But for many of us, this is impossible due to the circumstances or our own social ineptitude.

This is partly the reason why I've come here. To improve my self-esteem (the "inner game"). From various videos, lectures and reading, I've come to the conclusion that first, I must improve myself, and try out new things, enrich my life (I changed my wardrobe and I'm starting weight training, for example).

The other part is knowing how girls react to what I'm trying to say. It IS a game, in a way. Women most of the time don't accept whatever message you're trying to convey. They're always speculating, deducing, evaluating, etc. This is why they do the tests, etc. Not all women do that, and I love talking to girls (yes, I've been in dates) who think more straightforward.

For me, seddit has helped me become a better person and consider myself a man worthy of having a woman in my home (or in my bed, whatever).

Yes, I don't agree with some of the techniques and viewpoints in here. But don't think that a seduction forum is a lair of lying bastards. This isn't a church with a pope and a doctrine. It is a heterogeneous community. There are different people in here, with different motives and views on women and life in general.

Somwhere in here there are videos on Tyler Durden (A great PUA who wrote the book "Real Social Dynamics") , and he says that it's better to be honest, be yourself, and use situational openers... in other words, being natural. He focuses a lot on your inner growth. I've been in other seduction communities and I really agree with this Durden guy.

So, we're all learning something new. So please don't judge this community, it's hard to evaluate something you don't really know well.

2011-05-05T18:44:31+00:00

I think the only way to really dispute your claims is this: I use seddit techniques whenever I'm meeting new people and my relationships with others are deep and fulfilling. My life is my counter-example: the women I surround myself with are some of the smartest, most interesting people I've ever met.

If you like trashy chicks, you will spend your time trying to pick up trashy chicks. If you like classy chicks, you will spend your time trying to pick up classy chicks. The point is, the same methods work for both.

dracthrus · 2011-05-05T20:17:09+00:00

Sorry but I'm just downvoting this as it adds nothing to the seduction subreddit and is the same as walking into a girl-scout meeting and saying that having the girls in uniform out side a grocery store is exploiting people as they feel bad for turning them down.

While the discussing might be useful, the problem is that it is being held in a location where you will be directly opposed by the vast majority of people that chose to reply so it will quickly seem to be hostile to the OP as it will be the same thing over and over.

logrusmage · 2011-05-06T04:00:06+00:00

(women are stupid and disposable, dating is a game like risk that can be won, having sex is the ultimate goal)

I lvoe how people pull things out of their asses, and it's so clear that they just want to go on a rant to raise their own value inside their own heads.

dope_monkey · 2011-05-05T16:32:00+00:00

You're applying subjective morality toward some sweeping generalizations. If all I want to do is fuck bitches, who are you to tell me it's wrong or bad? You like relationships, I like serial monogamy. What's it to you?

coolaznkenny · 2011-05-06T05:43:16+00:00

The whole point of the community is what you take out of it. Some people just want to be better at being social, others want to sleep with 239402349 girls but like anything else is a tool. If you believe that pick up is just "deceiving" stupid girls then your just deceiving yourself of what YOU want the community to be about. I came to the community not because I was social awkward or because i had no friends, It was because I couldn't get the girls that I liked. If you achieve your goal by "picking up" your GF then you basically saying she is those stupid girls that is easily manipulated by Your "game".

FucksWithHiveMind · 2011-05-06T11:00:43+00:00

This is just a way to make somebody feel more confident. Even from my own experience I used to think of women as those intimidating, master race, cunning, unpredictable, heart-breakers who rule our emotions and manipulate us. Everything changed when I started thinking of them as my toys. I played around, got laid, gained the confidence and now I'm able to find long term, compatible girlfriends I respect and treat like an equal. I never cheat either. If I was an AFC I would still be a virgin.

Think of it as an army. You can walk in a complete pussy unable to even stand up for yourself. You are then taught that enemy is scum and eventually trained/brainwashed/turned into a killing machine. You walk out capable of killing but it's still up to you whether you want to stay or go, kill or help.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't really appreciate the light side without getting a taste of the dark side. In fact, you don't get to experience anything as an AFC. In the long run however no harm will be done and I'm sure most PUA will eventually settle down and make some woman happy.

tarnok · 2011-05-05T14:56:37+00:00

I have always thought the seduction community was shallow and unfulfilling. For the most part, these socially inept people itemize women and turn them into material possessions to be collected. More popular methods seem to rely on teaching tricks and stages so a persons personality doesn't have to factor in whether the girl is receptive. Now, I know there are those of us who respect women and people in general and only read this subreddit to get a better understanding, but it seems like /r/seduction is the exception. A good example of the exact person im calling out would be that dude who posted his drunken antics saying "alphas don't give a fuck." He acted like a moron and explains it off as "I wanted to be aggressive." People like that are who give everyone else who has ever read pickup material a bad name.

kelsoATX · 2011-05-05T20:17:23+00:00

It's called game, and if you want to form relationships with quality women of your choosing you need to get a firm understanding of it.

Title	I've been thinking this for a long time but I haven't gotten around to posting it.
Author	DucoNihilum
Upvotes	54
Comments	91
Date	May 5, 2011 1:49 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/h4t2f/ive_been_thinking_this_for_a_long_time_but_i/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/ive-been-thinking-this-for-a-long-time-but-i.1318019 https://theredarchive.com/post/1318019

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