PSA: Men, please watch your kino.

heckz · 2011-07-22T06:17:10+00:00

While I agree with what you are saying, it's sometimes easier to learn this by pushing it too far (and getting some negative feedback from a girl directly) rather than worrying too much about if it will bother someone. I think the worst I have gotten is a girl saying I'm really grabby or touchy.

Eventually, you get the hang of what works and doesn't work. But MANY times I have pushed more than I thought was acceptable and it worked to my favor.

miceriot · 2011-07-22T05:57:48+00:00

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assholebiker · 2011-07-22T06:46:17+00:00

Correct KINO timing is when you just made an exciting point and it's natural. You should basically be reaching for your KINO bag before you even realize why you're doing it. This comes naturally when you have a rapport with someone and have an emphatic point to make. Watch really the flirty girls at parties with their KINO. They're fucking masters and if you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't even notice. You just know that there's something about talking to this girl that you like.

Box-Monkey · 2011-07-22T07:24:32+00:00

No, it seems generally pretty in-line. You're just ignoring the learning curve that comes along with radically changing your natural tendencies.

intjpua · 2011-07-22T11:34:22+00:00

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crookers · 2011-07-22T06:14:30+00:00

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ThrowawayPUA · 2011-07-22T17:28:10+00:00

This is a classic piece of vague woman's intuition about how she feels when being seduced. It is written by a girl who has learned enough PUA jargon to phrase her argument in this language, without any deeper understanding of what that jargon is about. It has been a long held belief that we don't listen to women explaining their feelings about how they can be picked up. What they say isn't necessarily what they actually respond to. So we rely on field tested analysis from experienced mPUAs that focus on what actually works, despite any protestations from women that they are wrong. Is it any different from the dozens of PUA-bashing threads, with women who complain that pickup doesn't work on them, and then they describe pickup techniques done by naturals, that are the same things we do? So let me get into these points, one by one.

She says to watch out for "creepy kino." Well sure, lots of basic instructions like the How To Kino video series will teach you how to avoid creepy kino. But this isn't the usual rAFC problem. They think all kino is creepy, they're afraid to do it. So the usual advice to sedditors, as they are learning kino, is to take risks and push the boundaries. Only by crossing boundaries do you find out where they are. And in many cases, the boundaries are a lot farther than you think. I remember one night, I was out to push the boundaries to the breaking point, I was squeezing girls' butts within a minute of meeting them, and they liked it.
Um, well, one of my best sets ever, I had my arm around the girl and up her jacket on her back, giving heavy kino while she was grilling me (shit tests) about past girlfriends. No, that's no general rule as she claims.
There is no real "proper" escalation as she describes. Escalation is a sort of compliance test, you escalate and see if she's comfortable with it. If not, back off and escalate again later. Sure we have models like the Escalation Ladder, but it's not written in stone. If you have sufficient compliance, if the woman is sufficiently attracted, you can escalate in larger increments.
Guys are usually so oblivious to IOIs that by the time we notice one, she's probably been throwing them by the dozen. IOIs really aren't that important, when you consider that her presence is an IOI. If she wasn't interested, she'd walk away, or make you walk away. Always Assume Attraction.
Oh really. We are supposed to be leading a girl through a seduction. If a girl kinos us, it's likely to be because we were successfully kinoing her. Kino is not just touch. It's a system to get women centered in the physical sensations of her body and dealing with us as a physical presence. You don't even necessarily have to touch a woman to get a kino response. If the girl is touching you, she has responded physically.

So, in summary, kino has to be calibrated to the individual circumstances. There are guidelines but not many hard rules. Most girls are defensive about kino, they are often pawed and pulled in by men, so they have patterns in their reactions to clumsy kino. But not all girls react the same way. Part of the point of pickup is to make us aware of the reactions of women to our actions. So this OP was a good start for discussion, but IMHO not a set of inflexible rules, as she thinks it is.

revolved · 2011-07-22T09:47:02+00:00

Don't go straight from randomly touching my hand once to putting your arm around me.

THE CLAWWWWWWW!!!!

rmbarnes · 2011-07-22T14:43:09+00:00

Escalate properly. Don't go straight from randomly touching my hand once to putting your arm around me. And definitely don't put your arm around me in public if I just met you, there's no trust there.

The claw always wins.

One IOI is not sufficient. I compulsively play with my hair. Look for more. If you touch me too soon I'll write you off as someone just looking for sex and who does so often. Even if you are, your chances of getting it are much higher if I feel like you're not some easy sleazeball.

IOIs are nice, but I wouldn't look for them too much. IOIs are inconsistent between girls, and waiting for IOIs puts you in a passive instead of leading frame.

If I kino on you, KINO BACK. Don't make me second guess myself and friend zone you out of confusion. No reciprocal kino + a surprise k-close attempt = not as sexy as it could have been.

Make her second guess herself. It will get her brain racing. She doesn't like this so she's threatening the dreaded friend zone.

frogma · 2011-07-22T09:16:34+00:00

I'm gonna counter these points from my own POV (not that yours is bad or anything, it's just different).

1) Don't just randomly touch my leg every five seconds when you're talking to me. When it's that obvious and repetitive it's just annoying.

I can agree with that, but it really depends on how the guy's doing it. I'm sure I've done it successfully plenty of times.

2) Don't do it if you're talking about your previous sexual exploits in any way. That's just gross.

I've probably done that before too, but I can definitely see why it'd be weird in a lot of situations.

3) Escalate properly. Don't go straight from randomly touching my hand once to putting your arm around me. And definitely don't put your arm around me in public if I just met you, there's no trust there.

I mostly disagree with this point, because I break the escalation "rules" all the time (and put my arm around girls I've just met). It requires calibration and shit on my part- and if my calibration's good, there's generally no problem.

4) One IOI is not sufficient. I compulsively play with my hair. Look for more. If you touch me too soon I'll write you off as someone just looking for sex and who does so often.

Touching early and often is one of the key aspects of kino. If it makes you uncomfortable, the guy isn't doing it right. I also don't actively try to spot IOIs in the first place (I mean, I'll notice when a girl seems to be into me, but I generally just assume attraction and let my confidence take care of the rest).

5) If I kino on you, KINO BACK.

This one I basically agree with, but the guy also has the option of doing a "state-break" or whatever, which is something I do a lot (pull away or lose attention- to purposely fuck with the girl a bit). Just depends on how it's done and what the context is.

Also keep in mind, the standard kino advice has come from guys who have a lot of experience with various different girls. Advice from the female POV is only coming from her experience on the receiving end of it- so it only represents her opinion, and can easily be influenced by other factors (a cool, suave guy can do most of this shit successfully- whereas an uncalibrated guy might be doing it weirdly and is probably awkward to begin with).

doomgoblin · 2011-07-22T05:39:48+00:00

Who invited girls into seddit?

Edit: I was kidding. OP has good advice. I'm well calibrated enough to know when too much kino is too much. So don't over do it to creepster status. Can I get some upvotes now?

warrenraaff · 2011-07-22T10:51:29+00:00

Great advice... provided I actually had the courage to do it

SpiderFan · 2011-07-22T15:55:06+00:00

Great post, I hope to see you post in seddit more often

2011-07-22T18:04:37+00:00

One IOI is not sufficient.

Personally, I don't need any IOI to do it. Probably because of where I come from kino is very natural and instinctive for me. You just need to know how to do it. Touching is like speaking. There's all sorts of little nuances that affect the meaning and quality of your touch.

For example, you can tell a girl "wait a second" by placing your hand on her shoulder and facing away from her towards another person. On the other extreme you can put your hand on her shoulder, face her, and look into her eyes. And of course there's all sorts of in betweens.
It's also different to, during a conversation, placing your hand on her shoulder with your palm down holding gently, from say touching her shoulder with the back of your hand.
Congruence is super important. Being abroad I don't always kiss girls (cheek) when we're introduce, but many times I do. I never get a bad reaction. At most a bit of hesitation because it's unexpected to some. However when I first moved, I went for the kiss instinctively and then their hesitation made me hesitate and it was just... bad (well more awkward/funny than bad). I even stopped doing it for a some time. Then I got used to expect some surprise, and my congruence just makes it natural.

Anyway, that said, you do raise very good points. The problem is that these things take a while to calibrate. I never had problems with kino, but I know that in the process of changing other habits I must have come across as an asshole quite a few times.

theubernoob · 2011-07-22T19:08:13+00:00

If a dude cannot "kino", as you guys call it, properly then you should probably gtfouta there. I think a lot of guys who try to implement this kind of shit over think it way too much and end up doing it entirely wrong. It's like they approach with a checklist and steps to follow and accomplish which really isn't the way approaching girls should be done.

chumpta · 2011-07-22T19:34:47+00:00

1 - yea, kino when emphasizing a verbal point

2 - DON'T talk explicitly about previous sexual exploits. DO talk implicitly about them

3 - yes escalate properly. but if you escalate "properly" then putting your arm around a girl you just met is like... way way normal.

4 - always assume attraction

5 - YES kino back. a touch from a girl is a nice time to pull, then push.

There's a fine line between a girl thinking a guy has game and thinking a guy is a total sleazeball = improper kino is the easiest and fastest way to cross it.

improper kino is also the easiest way to look timid and weak. ca-li-bra-tion

BigPhun · 2011-07-22T22:41:28+00:00

It is like you have been spying on me. I use kino a lot, but I am guilty of a few of these. Great post.

GutterBaby69 · 2011-07-23T00:55:42+00:00

Thanks for the feedback from a real woman. ;) Seddit needs more of this.

Richandler · 2011-07-23T20:09:00+00:00

I don't agree with most of this. It just tells me your insecure with yourself. I don't want an insecure girl who most likely will complain throughout dates.

narcississy · 2011-07-27T02:22:11+00:00

I'm always most attracted to men who keep some distance, but maintain good eye-contact. If a guy can get me wanting him to touch me, it's far better when he actually does. If you notice a woman touching herself quite a bit, rubbing her legs, stroking her hair, touching her collar-bone, chances are she's in that mindset. Wait ten minutes and then find an excuse to touch her and she'll likely get all warm from your touch. It'll be like a relief. Leave her wanting more not less. Same goes for sex, prolong penetration until she practically begs for it and she'll follow you around like a bitch in heat.

nefrina · 2011-07-22T16:25:59+00:00

How about you just tell the guy who is trying to get with you how you are feeling, instead of hoping that he understands your signals? :P

Vurv · 2011-07-22T23:04:27+00:00

Contrary to what this girl has suggested, Do Not 'Watch' Your Kino.

That's part of what makes it weird.

wafflepancakes · 2011-07-22T07:40:10+00:00

Hi. Thanks for your feedback, but you are one girl in a sea of a shit-ton more.

sdtoking420 · 2011-07-22T08:37:57+00:00

PSA: Men, please do not listen to this girl.

mramoth · 2011-07-22T23:43:46+00:00

What is kino?

Rakielis · 2011-07-22T06:28:22+00:00

i really dont understand what any of this means. like ive never heard the word kino or IOI. granted, this is my first time on seduction. being the new guy that i am i want to ask...

do you actually expect every guy you date to know these things?

how do you react to guys who dont seem to be doing any of this?

whats wrong with simply being yourself? i think this is where im most confused. i dont mean to say anything you are doing is wrong, its just something that ive never even heard of and it kind of makes me nervous to think that girls ive met have been thinking about all this stuff that ive never even considered.

Mapex · 2011-07-22T05:44:14+00:00

Kino? IOI? I had to look that shit up.

Can we just use normal terms to mean simple stuff? I don't go running around saying "that guy is a posterior sphincter!"

EDIT I didn't know about the glossary or really anything about this subreddit. Feel free to move along, nothing to see here.

essendoubleop · 2011-07-22T05:44:30+00:00

Why don't you just tell them directly rather than posting it anonymously on an internet board?

heckz · 2011-07-22T07:07:58+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	PSA: Men, please watch your kino.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	126
Comments	107
Date	July 22, 2011 5:29 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/iwkbi/psa_men_please_watch_your_kino/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/psa-men-please-watch-your-kino.1320522 https://theredarchive.com/post/1320522

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