School refused to let me pick up my son

oneiorosgrip · 2012-08-24T18:54:46+00:00

his mother had asked me to take him so that she could "get her shit together" (her words)...

...I registered my son for kindergarten in my city, and he attended the first three days. This was not acceptable to his mother, who was adamant that he should be living primarily with her and going to school in her town. After those first three days, I returned my son to her for the weekend, and she has been preventing me from seeing him ever since. She enrolled him in a different school in her city.

First thing: Get a lawyer. Your situation is that the mother has decided to keep your child away from you. That may or may not change at her end. If it doesn't change at her end, the longer you wait, the harder it's going to be to change it at yours.

Second, be ready to play hardball, because she's already started. You were the residential parent for a year. You had your kid enrolled in preschool. You should be able to get a record of that, showing what time period the child was enrolled for, attendance, and progress. That is vital information. You should also have the vaccination records and other paperwork from enrolling your child in kindergarten. That is also vital information.

Gather any other documentation of the child's residence with you that you can find - mail (particularly any medical insurance mail or an insurance card with your address,) enrollment in any program, lease information if you are a renter, anything from a medical visit, neighbor statements if you can get them, especially anyone whose kids spent time hanging out with yours.

Aside from that, write down everything that you can about what has happened, from the day you let the child visit his mother to now, including every time she has refused to return him, every time she has refused communication, the school's refusal, and the fact that you were informed that she told the school to refuse.

If you don't want to lose contact with your child, you need to look at this as it is: Parental kidnapping. Your child's mother has refused to return the child to his residence, has enrolled him in school, and has told the school to withhold access. Take your information in to a lawyer specializing in family law and custody issues, talk about the situation from that standpoint, and find out what your options are.

vegibowl · 2012-08-24T20:26:04+00:00

Ugh. This happened to my (divorced) dad when I was a kid but I couldn't figure out why he was so pissed off. Poor bastard.

Sorry, no advice (my kids aren't in school yet), but you have my sympathy.

crazyex · 2012-08-24T22:54:08+00:00

I am sorry for what mom is doing to the two of you.

My advice: be extremely careful with tone and body language when dealing with school officials or other authorities, especially if they are female. Avoid threatening postures, actions, or words. It would be best if, in the future you anticipate butting heads with school officials, you bring along someone to serve as a witness to avoid having the police called on you for being "threatening" or making someone feel "in danger" or fear for the "safety of the kids". If your state allows it, you can also bring an audio recorder with you next time. A video camera would be ideal, but I guarantee you the camera would become the focus of the problem and they would make you leave for "violating the childrens' privacy".

School districts do not like to stick their neck out for anyone or anything. If they think there's a chance mom will sue them or get them in trouble you won't get your son out short of something drastic, which I certainly don't recommend.

If you have not already, contact the district's superintendent Monday and explain the situation and offer to bring the proof of paternity to them. It might be possible the superintendent will be more likely to listen than the principal. Use honey instead of vinegar with the super. No principal will go against a superintendent no matter what.

If you have any questions feel free to pm me. I have a couple of moles that have been working in the public school system for decades.

fringeobserver · 2012-08-24T21:32:06+00:00

I understand your need to see your kid. My dad recently told me a story of what he had to go through. His first marriage ended in divorce (she cheated) and he got a job in another town an hour drive away. He would get off of work early EVERY WEEKDAY just to drive over and pick his kids (my half-brother and half-sister) up from school. He kept this up for as long as he could, even after she remarried. Some end of week mornings he had no money for gas and had to walk to work.

No matter what happens, do what you need to do in order to stay in your son's life. It will matter, and it will be important to him.

angereirinn · 2012-08-24T20:00:44+00:00

All this due to registering your son in preschool ?

Getting pissed after 3 days after "get her shit together" seemed rather quick but seriously, have a lawyer on speed dial.

Juan_Golt · 2012-08-24T21:06:35+00:00

Just going to let you know up front that you won't get anywhere with this without court orders spelling it all out. Even with a court order there isn't much you can do.

In my experience it goes something like this:

Fight for months in court to get an order giving you the right to pick up from school/daycare.
File the papers with the school.
School at the behest of the mother ignores/misplaces paperwork.
Call Police and police say the order is 'unclear', and you need to go back to court to sort it out. "Now leave the school premises sir!" If you get the least bit agitated about the kidnapping of your kid, YOU will be the one to go to jail [1]
Go back to #1

Go find out how many cases of custodial interference have been prosecuted in your state. Likely zero. The mother of your child can keep the kid from you with no repercussions. All you can do is hope it gets bad enough that a judge takes her flouting the court order personally.

What I would do is the exact opposite. I would take the kid back to the school you signed him up for initially, and not allow the mother to see the kid again until court orders are in place. File legal paperwork outlining a custody schedule immediately. Cite the fact that she is messing with the school you've set up for him, and that you have made education decisions and provided primary care in the past. Until this is decided avoid her and give her zero visitation. She will call the police and show up at your house, so you need to find somewhere else to stay until it's all been decided.

Check local laws regarding paternal rights. Many states default sole legal custody to the mother if she is unmarried. If that is the case here you will face an uphill battle.

[1] The police only show up to arrest a man. Once the cops are called (regardless of who called them), you need to understand that the only person potentially going to jail is you. Act accordingly.

notarapist72 · 2012-08-24T20:38:03+00:00

Facebook up, delete the gym, hit the lawyer

McIanAvelli · 2012-08-24T22:54:07+00:00

First lawyer up. Second, do you want full custody? If you do, this is the time to attack. Have lawyer petition for full permanent custody, site the kindergarten enrollment, and last years full custody. Be prepared for a fight, and spare no expense. I got full physical custody of my four children and never regretted it. The joy of seeing my kids first thing in the morning and last thing at night (every day) was well worth the time and expense of fighting for it.

2012-08-24T19:45:29+00:00

You can see with your lawyer to also sue the school for not letting you pick up your child, if you noticed the law they preached wasn't true. That money could buy a small gift for your son, yourself, or even get some college money :)

2012-08-25T01:26:14+00:00

LAWYER!

Geohump · 2012-08-25T01:26:23+00:00

Lawyer; Do not notify wife, Bring lawyer and police officer to the school with you thenext time you want to pick up the kid. Have the principal arrested for child kidnap if she/he refuses to release your child to you.

ChubbyChecker · 2012-08-25T02:23:54+00:00

Sorry about your situation, that'd make me rage pretty hard. I dunno if this would work, but there never seems to be any harm in lawyering up.

1) Hire lawyer

2) Go with lawyer to school

3) Pick up child from school with threat of legal action if they don't release

Optional 4) Move out of country?

ianfloridian · 2012-08-24T19:33:21+00:00

Please talk with your son's mother and let her know how important it is for him to have a relationship with both of his parents. Let her know that you need to be seeing him on a regular basis and that any acts of hers that hinder a free relationship are extremely detrimental and selfish.

If you make a breakthrough in that (or perhaps several) conversation(s), yay. If not, I would seek legal action.

Communication is key. You didn't paint her as being entirely disagreeable, so I'm hoping you two can work it out for the benefit of your son.

mythin · 2012-08-24T22:45:44+00:00

I would seriously explore your legal options to press kidnapping charges on that kindergarten. /u/oneiorosgrip pretty much covers all the details beyond that.

owensounder · 2012-08-25T04:23:29+00:00

My friend just went though something similar.

He dropped his kids off at their mother's place for the week she was supposed to have them, when he came back a week later to pick them up they were nowhere to be found.

He called and texted her nonstop until he fianlly got a reply from her saying "You're not going to see the kids until you get a court order!"

Both of us immediately thought of calling the cops because this felt like a kidnapping. The police told us they can not do anything unless there is a court ordered custody arrangement, both of us are in disbelief at this.

He had to pay a $10k retainer to enlist the help of a good lawyer but in the end, after 2 weeks of stress, he got his kids back...One week later, the court awarded him interim custody, she only gets the kids every other weekend.

Stay strong, get a good lawyer and take the advice he/she gives.

2012-08-25T05:10:27+00:00

I'd contact a lawyer and take legal action. Make an example of the school district. It's not just about you, this is endemic of our society and doubtless many other fathers have been affected in similar ways but never had the strength or resources to fight back or even realized they were in the right.

I applaud you for not simply accepting being mistreated as inevitable.

buster2209 · 2012-08-24T19:04:31+00:00

If it was me, I would have gone ahead and picked my son up, but seeing as that is done with, I would go speak to a lawyer. You can find ones online that usually give free consultations. You have to understand that without a written agreement dealing with the custody of your son, the law will side with her 99% of the time. Does it suck? Yes, but it is my experience that once women become emotional like this, a torrent of shit is impending. An hour with a lawyer will explain to you what legally can be done to ensure you have a relationship with your son. And please, please, PLEASE trust me with what I am about to say; I would bet a months salary that she has either already spoken to a lawyer about this and is intending to hit you up with a formal agreement. When I got divorced, I made the mistake of thinking my ex-wife would listen to reason. Because I waited too long to seek legal counsel, I had added stress and had to spend more money than what would have been necessary if I hadn't had procrastinated. You are now in a war and your boy's mother started the first attack.

2012-08-25T01:12:51+00:00

Theres plenty of parents who kidnap their kids from school, it's happened, honestly, this sounds like the school just either a) following regulations and protocall or b) they're just being cautious. I know it sucks, hell I'd feel violated too, I feel your pain, I don't know what to say man. Fuck.

honoraryorange · 2012-08-25T05:30:30+00:00

Shit, you have better patience than me. I'd have just gotten him and left and told them to fuck off.

And yeah as the others said, it is time to lawyer up :(

huxley2112 · 2012-08-24T20:44:08+00:00

I would've called the police and told them that the school was illegally detaining my son and that I wanted to press charges unless they released him into my custody.

Public schools are so fucked up, it's as if they think they can operate outside the realm of US law.

kttmrt · 2012-08-24T19:31:11+00:00

Sounds like its time to get custody papers filed with the courts. Good luck. :)

mr_happy28 · 2012-08-24T23:44:20+00:00

I have been in similar circumstances.

I live in the UK but same situation, she told the school 'specifically' that I was NOT allowed to collect my son although I have shared parental responsibilities.

She CHANGED my sons legal surname in school WITHOUT my consent, when I pulled the school up about it they told me there was nothing they could do, just that when both parents come to an agreement to let them know.

Plus much more.

The advice I would give you is to be prepared to be shat on from a great height. But do the right thing, get some legal help. Bide your time. Be cool. You and your son want to have a decent relationship and NO-ONE will ever get in the way. She may well be angry and emotional but this will pass. Although you want things to be right immediately, it may not be. Please get some good advice. You will get there soon, be strong.

2012-08-25T00:03:25+00:00

I'm not sure we have enough data as far as the relationship over the past year. How much contact did she have with you and the kid? Is there any reason she would feel like you were keeping him from her?

Going to school to pick him up unbeknownst to the mom was a bad call, regardless of your right to do so. You had to know that even if successful, it wouldn't have ended well with figuring out a course of action with the mom, and that would probably only affect the kid.

Putting the school in the position of arbiter was a shitty thing to do to them, regardless of your right to your kid. Again, you shouldn't have been surprised by this. They don't have records of ANY of the kids' custody records most likely, nor should they be expected to. The policy is for good reason. This is likely not a MR issue, as one would hope that the same policy would be enforced in reverse.

25 years ago, I remember a dad coming in to "kidnap" his son... and the teacher physically wouldn't allow it. I remember the kid being suspended by his arms- one by the dad, one by the teacher. The cops came and arrested the guy as he fled. This kid was clearly troubled, even in my little-kid-head, and that day I understood a lot of it.

Best of luck with whatever the situation. Remember that while you do absolutely have rights, your responsibility to your son should supersede.

Sorry to be that guy.

Windex007 · 2012-08-25T00:20:39+00:00

Get a lawyer, right now, and crucify the school, right now.

The only thing that institutions like this understand is getting sued, and you have a real opportunity to take this situation and turn it into a positive thing for men everywhere. Sue them for every single penny you can, and I KNOW that you can effect a systematic change in the way schools in your whole state (maybe the whole country) treat this kind of situation.

Lothrazar · 2012-08-25T03:14:40+00:00

To play devils advocate, if that particular school worker had never met you, I can possibly see their side as well.

rightsbot · 2012-08-24T18:32:20+00:00

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VerySpecialSnowflake · 2012-08-24T20:23:41+00:00

You are citing FERPA, which deals with student records, not student pickup. The subsection you cite also makes it clear that it applies to either parent unless there is paperwork of legal separation, etc. It does not say both parents.

I am very sorry you have not been able to see your son, and I do hope you will be able to work it out very soon. However, the school was well within its rights and was merely protecting itself from liability and from a lawsuit from either you, your ex, or both. If your ex enrolled him, she is likely the only listed party allowed to pick him up. They do not deviate from that. Most schools now also have signs parents, guardians, or babysitters have to place in their window as well to verify they are allowed to pick them up.

phantom_nosehair · 2012-08-24T22:39:37+00:00

Lawyer. Even if you don't proceed to far, find a good lawyer to give you the advice.

JustAnAvgJoe · 2012-08-25T01:14:33+00:00

In that situation you call a sheriff.

2012-08-25T01:23:38+00:00

I'm sorry you've had to/are going through this, man. It seems like you acted utterly rationally so big props to you for that.

As others have said, it's time to retain an attorney. Even if you have zero intention of ever filing a single motion, affidavit or complaint, spend a bit upfront so that you know your rights.

dirtywood · 2012-08-25T02:23:07+00:00

Lawyer up and prepare to go to war. Im sorry this happened to you. I would suggest going for primary custody.

2012-08-25T03:25:07+00:00

Sue the living bejeesus out of that school.

Shitbagsoldier · 2012-08-24T23:48:57+00:00

Talk to a lawyer and sue the fuck out of them. It is necessary.

truthjusticeca · 2012-08-24T18:42:18+00:00

It's not right and it's frustrating but you should probably get used to it because it happens a lot.

captivecadre · 2012-08-24T23:57:52+00:00

the mom sounds pretty unreasonable and i'm so sorry you have to deal with that. i'm in a very similar situation. i've had deep fears about getting the courts involved because it will almost certainly go against me. however, i have had some success by refusing to talk to his mom about what i want or what she wants, the only conversation is about what is best for the child. i'm sure it breaks his heart that he can't see you. she has to have some compassion for the poor kid. just keep pointing out that she isn't punishing you, she is punishing him. maybe it'll make a chink?

feeling powerless about our own offspring is enraging.

yer_muther · 2012-08-24T20:57:03+00:00

Fuck that dude. Lawyer, Lawyer, Lawyer, oh and Lawyer. There is no middle ground in family court so go for the kill directly. Don't try to be a nice guy or any other bullshit sentiment. The other side will yank your sac off like a paper towel if they can and not even think twice about it. It's time to get dirty so don't hesitate to dig up anything you can.

2012-08-25T01:33:38+00:00

Jesus fucking christ. Fucking beaurocrat scum.

I know this will probably not help any, but this story inspires fantastic thoughts of bringing in a black panther style squad armed with knowledge of the fathers rights situation and law in the country. It would be awesome to get you help to rightfully seize your kid, by blocking the path of anyone who would stop you with their bodies, and polite but visible resistance.

Hypersapien · 2012-08-24T19:13:35+00:00

Threaten to have the principal arrested for kidnapping.

CaptainRandus · 2012-08-25T06:59:36+00:00

this seems more of a parternal rights issue than a mens rights issues, but legal or not, my relationship with my son is more important thatn the school's laws. I would be leaving with my son.

Schools have no right to step in between child and parent unless there is danger to the child.

Edit: the fact that his mother had the child stay with you, but would not let you pick him up from school makes absolutely no sense...

Funcuz · 2012-08-25T11:15:24+00:00

One thing that needs to be pointed out here is that federal law always trumps district policy . Otherwise (and while acknowledging that it does still happen) the Constitution/Charter/whatever document that guides a country's judicial system would be a worthless piece of paper .

So , basically , even if the district policy is such that it denies you the right to pick up your own child , it is in violation of federal law and therefore invalid . All you should need is a copy of the relevant code and proof that you are who you say you are .

School boards simply aren't courts and they can't just make up rules in direct violation of the law as they see fit .
While I realize that in this case it's a moot point , whatever paper-pusher you spoke to clearly knows neither the law nor district policies . Next time , it's only fair that you demand to speak to somebody who does actually know what they're talking about .

MagnM · 2012-08-25T11:57:13+00:00

hey can i friend you, i wanna see how this goes

zoobieZ00B · 2012-08-25T14:42:22+00:00

The media. Explain your story to a news outlet

2012-08-25T15:15:01+00:00

Turns out, both the Code of Federal Regulations (34 CFR 99.4) and the district's official policy explicitly say that both parents have the right to release of a child unless the school has legally binding documents indicating otherwise.

sue the school, and the principal.

ipelkowski · 2012-08-25T15:47:21+00:00

if theres no custody agreement your in the mind to take your son and enroll him in a different school and get that lawyer to right up some papers to prevent her from seeing him ect until u get her to agree to a custody agreement the you write yourself

donchmonch · 2012-08-25T17:03:58+00:00

Go make those bastards pay

roharareddit · 2012-08-25T03:53:39+00:00

Your beef is with the mother, not the school. And it has nothing to do with mensrights. The exact same situation would have occurred had the mother tried to pick the kid up at the school where you registered him.

My wife and I are married and have no custody issues, etc. On top of that, half the employees (including the principal and vice principal) at my daughter's school know me personally. 99% of the time, my wife picks her up from school. We were doing a family something one day and the two of us drove to school together before normal dismissal time to pick up our daughter. I went into the school and my wife waited in the car. Turns out that we forgot to put my name on the "authorized pick up" list that school year. They wouldn't let me leave with her. Mom had to come in.

The school (rightfully) is always going to err on the side of caution. And angry, frustrated parent in the office is always going to be preferred to the risk of releasing the child to a non-custodial parent, grand-parent or friend. Every time.

aarghj · 2012-08-25T04:21:55+00:00

ok, let me put this as gently as possible...

YO, DUMBASS... GET A FUCKING LAWYER AND SET UP SOME BOUNDARIES/RULES.

Oh yeah, and traditionally, in family court, first to file is the one who gets the claim.

2012-08-24T22:00:22+00:00

Could you have called the police, because basically they were holding him hostage from you.

PandaSandwich · 2012-08-25T01:57:30+00:00

While this is right and i am sure you are angry, you have to look at it from their side.

A lot of parents(both sides) will go in to the school, show that they are the mother/father of the child, and kidnap the child. They probably have policy's in place to try and prevent that from happening.

That said, go through the process to get the ability to pick your son up from school, and if they won't let you, sue them.

Raballo · 2012-08-25T12:49:32+00:00

Bro, I wish i could say I know where you are coming from. I wish I could tell you what to do. What to expect. But I cannot as I am not qualified and lacking experience to share. I wish you much luck and hopefully you contact some lawyers with some actual scruples.

All I can say is I hope you don't back down. I hope you ruin reputations. I hope you make fools of them. I hope you make her and that school regret doing that. I hope you win this. Good luck brother.

conepuncher420 · 2012-08-24T21:35:52+00:00

i would have just grabbed my kid and walked out the front door, they call police? i say its my son, done deal.

mugsnj · 2012-08-25T07:05:15+00:00

You have no legal agreement with the mother for custody of your child, but currently the child lives with his mother. And you just decided on a whim to pick him up from school without telling his mother? That seems strange to me. You need to at least communicate about when each parent is going to have the kid in their custody.

MrStonedOne · 2012-08-24T21:19:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Little_Baby_Jesus · 2012-08-25T15:10:58+00:00

You better tell that school to lawyer up.

angereirinn · 2012-08-24T18:58:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	School refused to let me pick up my son
Author	angereirinn
Upvotes	497
Comments	113
Date	August 24, 2012 6:32 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yrmb4/school_refused_to_let_me_pick_up_my_son/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/school-refused-to-let-me-pick-up-my-son.1015090 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015090

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