Men opting out of dating all together

Tralan · 2012-06-23T04:21:53+00:00

I was done with dating when a gal I was with flirted with another man throughout the date and still expected me to pay. When she went to the bar to talk to him, I paid my half of the ticket and had the waitress deliver her half.

NiceGuysFinishLast · 2012-06-22T22:53:52+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Narconis · 2012-06-23T08:41:38+00:00

I chose not to date for the first 27 years of my life...then met my fiance. I didn't feel the need to get in to the "game". Met her...there was no game. It's actually been pretty drama free and easy.

Hamakua · 2012-06-22T21:25:19+00:00

IIRC there is a social phenomenon happening in Japan right now with the "youger generation" (I believe 18-27, or there abouts) where men are simply checking out of society. I think they call them herbivores.

In the states and a few other western locals, a different demographic (Wider) adopt a MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), way of life. This is unrelated (directly) to the herbivore thing in Japan, but has a lot of overlap with the Men's Rights Movement.

The MGTOW, from what I understand, are men who simply have done the cost benefit analysis of dating risks, marriage risks, relationship risks, and the rewards that are offered up for them and absolutely hate the return.

I am not a MGTOW, but I know a lot about them, MGTOW is one of the older elements of the MRM and they tend to be very valuable intellectual minds. Now, most MGTOW arn't necissarily PUA advocates, and there is some cross-fighting there as-meh, drama. Anyway, MGTOW is one part political statement, one part "relationship fasting" and 2 parts self preservation.

Distilled, MGTOW is an ultimate statement as to choice. It's a concept of choosing to "check out" of a game that is rigged. The interesting part for me is how they are oft criticized by feminists.

Stratisphear · 2012-06-22T21:18:05+00:00

I've been going my own way for a few years now. Can't say I miss the jumping through hoops, drama, and one-upmanship that so often accompanies a relationship these days.

Maybe some day, when I'm where I would like to be, I will start dating seriously. But until then, casual sex without attachment is suiting me just fine.

25cents · 2012-06-23T02:01:27+00:00

I gave up a while back. I'd gotten burned pretty bad in an engagement to the "woman of my dreams" and it took years to recover. Once I had, I felt like I was happier alone. I tried dating a couple more times after that, but it turns out the psychological trope that "the less you give them the more they love you" thing was pretty spot on (at least for those two women). I couldn't handle the "attention", wanted my own freedom, and left.

I recently decided that maybe I wanted to give one of them another shot, as she seemed, in retrospect, to be a pretty damn good foil for me (and believe me, i need one). We talked about it a lot, and she essentially came to the conclusion that my problems weren't going to work for her, despite the fact that i was willing to work with what i perceived as her issues. i got pretty upset about that, but thinking about it, it's probably for the best - i don't need to raise someone elses children, and i doubt i'm mature enough to do so effectively anyway.

that being said, i've been single without any real remorse or desire to change the fact (aside from what was previously stated) for almost 2 years now. it's night and day the stress levels. i don't have to answer to anyone, i don't have to do anything i don't want, and i don't have to worry about my actions or words hurting someone unintentionally and then dealing with those repercussions. i'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have a female to spend time with, but it's really not worth having to navigate the inter-social pitfalls that come with a male-female relationship.

no, i'm not celibate, and i don't hate women. i just acknowledge that i don't understand them and every one i've been with so far wants me to change who i am once i'm in the relationship (with one exception, again, but there were other reasons that one fell apart).

TL;DR - i feel ya, dude. i'm gonna go play video games and drink beer now.

Dolanduckaroo · 2012-06-22T21:49:55+00:00

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forum.php#mgtow-discussion-forums

Great board for any guy that is sick of society catering to women in the dating world. Instead of spending years trying to get a high status job, or developing a dominant, life of the party, alpha male personality, these guys have said "fuck it" and look to find happiness on their own terms.

Revorob · 2012-06-23T00:07:43+00:00

Autistic Redditor here. I've opted out. Every girl I've gone out with has been too much hassle in one way or another. One even went so far as to say she owned me because I had gone out with her. In other cases I've felt pressured into dates because I didn't want to look like a dick. I'm not one to enjoy spending $100 on someone I don't know, let alone someone I don't even like. Now I just tell others I don't date.

carterriser · 2012-06-23T13:55:46+00:00

I'm a little late to the party, but I've thought about this some and here's what I think.

Girls are taught from the time they're pretty small that it's good to be attractive in the way that the media thinks is attractive. Over time, our standards change from "healthy and happy" to "skinny with straight hair" or whatever the current trend is. This all requires a lot of work because most people aren't naturally "beautiful". Very many women are happy to do all this work because a beautiful girl is a powerful thing.

Here's where you guys come in. The truth is that there are very many guys who lose their shit when the see a hot chick. I've seen some of the smartest, funniest, nicest guys I know turn into idiots when they're around a girl they find attractive.

I can't speak for all non-hot girls but I'm a pretty average looking woman. I clean up okay but most of the time I can't be arsed with heels and makeup. (Granted I'm a wife and mom of four, so my spring time is pretty much over.) I was friendzoned an awful lot in school, had a lot of FWB relationships because the guys I was seeing wanted someone they could impress their friends with. This hurt, but my response was to develop a really good sense of humor, and a generous personality. I don't meet a lot of people that don't like me, in real life. I don't think I'm special, I think a lot of average-ugly girls have the same coping mechanism.

The flip side of this is that for really pretty girls, they don't necessarily need to have any other good qualities, because they live from their looks. People buy them things, give them jobs, let them get away with all kinds of bullshit because a beautiful woman is a status symbol that they want to have.

I ask you guys to ask yourselves if this describes you before you completely go off dating. If it does, maybe revisit those girls you friendzoned. I'm not saying girls that don't take care of themselves, I'm saying girls with frizzy hair and glasses. Pale girls that read a lot of books. They may offer you things that that "hot" girl can't.

I have known several gorgeous, nice, smart women. They exist too, but are like unicorns. Chances are they aren't looking for an average guy.

I say that this shit will stop when you guys stop giving her the power and the leeway to use you. It's kind of in your hands.

truthjusticeca · 2012-06-22T21:16:18+00:00

I don't even like the word "dating" because it has the implication of a man doing all the planning and paying.

I like to go out and do stuff and I like it when women also take the initiative and pay their own way. It's not really dating in the traditional sense.

Jokkerb · 2012-06-23T04:43:48+00:00

I have stopped dating. I was head over heals for a girl, we were engaged and had a son together. Unfortunately there were patterns of behavior that were insurmountable. Since then I've found that dating isn't worth it, I have a son to raise while I go to school full time and work full time. Trying to date on top of all of that just isn't worth it. Plus I don't trust myself as much because the last time I seriously engaged a relationship it turned out to be cataclysmically bad. I have been strictly single for 3 years and am doing fine, though I do sometimes miss the companionship. Also I don't think the money, time, and double standards imposed on me in any relationship are worth the outcome.

Ed_Torrid · 2012-06-23T05:58:50+00:00

I tried talking to women at work, or anywhere outside and it never worked. I'm a decent looking guy with a good job and superb manners. I made an E-harmony profile and the women claim they want an honest, direct and smart guy. It turns out I am too smart, too honest or too direct. I just DON'T understand what it is they want and in the meantime I am wasting my money and my time filtering out pointlessly picky, drama filled time draining women...sigh

ss_camaro · 2012-06-23T06:02:53+00:00

MGTOW is powerful. By rejecting the establishment frame, ppl can either accept yours or blow. Throw in a few escorts and maybe a causal girl-friend or two sans drama, micro-management and one-sided legal contracts... and you have a vastly superior lifestyle compared to that of the all-too-typical, bitch-slapped chump. Take control of your life.

carterriser · 2012-06-23T06:04:40+00:00

I'd just like to thank everyone for their replies. I chose to post this on a throwaway rather than my real account because I am still not comfortable with this part of my life being public- my friends and family just think I don't like talking about dating. But it is wonderful to hear from others who see things similarly. I wish this concept would become more socially accepted.

captivecadre · 2012-06-23T06:32:04+00:00

i stopped dating a few years ago on the premise that i am no longer willing to invite anyone into my life that makes me uncomfortable. i have found many wonderful friendships with this approach, but no comfortable intimate connections have developed. i ended up having sex a couple times but it didn't feel right so i walked away. i am happier than i have ever been. i have found that the best defense for not getting into a shitty relationship is holding the line on what feels right. such a simple rule to live by and it changes everything. i would gladly never date again if dating meant repeating the bad experiences i've had. i would gladly date someone as long as it didn't repeat those unhealthy unenjoyable patterns. i have more friends than i've ever had, and those friendships are better quality than i've had in the past. i have found it a much more satisfying lifestyle.

CORNDOGCOMMANDO · 2012-06-22T22:03:59+00:00

I tried dating again but the list of requirements that I must meet is long and I just don't see the woman meeting any of the items in the list I must meet.

The most frustrating thing is I was trying to date educated woman but they want to be a home maker. They got free educations and now they don't want to work, great.

There has got to be level headed sane woman out there, I just could not find one and I don't think I have it In me to keep trying. Is it so wrong to want your partner to pull their own weight so things are easier together then apart. I don't want a princess, I want an adult woman not a little girl who will cry and scream till she gets her way. I would love to have an adult conversation with a woman with out her censoring what I can talk about. I had one woman say we can't talk about bad things...because bad things happen to bad people. Right, that's going to lead to great conversation.

I still want a female partner in life but I need an adult and that's hard to find where I live. Way to many single moms raising little princesses,telling their girls they are special and unique. Never telling them that a relationship takes hard work from both partners and not just the woman making demands.

CaptainChewbacca · 2012-06-23T02:16:16+00:00

The 'nice guys' aren't trying to date when they're younger because the women aren't looking for emotionally available providers, and then as people get older the nice guys become bitter and turn into assholes and have their pick of the desperate women who spent their youth and charm on assholes.

Spyder_J · 2012-06-23T04:52:21+00:00

I got frustrated and quit for a year-and-a-half or so after a really bad couple of dating years in my late twenties. I was merely average in the "looks" department and I didn't make much money, so obviously I didn't measure up very well to the Prince Charming that they're all looking for. I could scrounge up dates pretty regularly through dating websites (about 2 for every 10 e-mails I sent), but almost never ended up with 2nd dates with any of them. You definitely start to feel like a sucker after you buy a few dozen $100 dinners just to never hear from any of the girls again. I think most of them considered me a long shot for what they were looking for, but probably figured, "What the hell? Give it a shot. Worst case scenario, I get wined and dined for free."

So finally I said, "Fuck it," and quit. After a year or so, though, I caught some breaks at work and had a more prestigious job title, made quite a bit more money, and was able to buy a home. Figured I might be viewed as a better prospect, so I reactivated my profile and updated my living situation, my income, and then just flat-out lied about my height, adding 2 inches to it to bring me to 5'10". Suddenly I was getting about 7 dates for every 10 e-mails sent, and they were all open to 2nd dates.

You can't argue with those kinds of results. This is why no one will ever convince me that the superficial doesn't matter. The superficial is CRITICAL. "Money can't buy me love" my ass. I could've remained (justifiably) bitter about the shallowness of it all and opted out again, but at the end of the day, life is short, and it's nice to have intimacy and female companionship. I've been happily married for a couple of years now. If something ever happened, though--like a death or a divorce--and I found myself single again, I honestly don't know that I'd ever have the inclination to start again from square one and put myself through all that "dating" bullshit again. I might just fly solo ever after at that point.

2012-06-23T02:46:14+00:00

Oddly enough, I think my brother has opted out of the dating scene. I say oddly, because he seems to do this by just picking a girlfriend he can stand and sticking with her until he gets dumped. Not so much because he's romantically attached, but because he just doesn't want to deal with the will-they-won't-they and drama of socializing in mixed-gender company. At least, that's what my parents think.

Just thought this would be an interesting thought about a completely different way to go about the issue.

ChildActor · 2012-06-22T23:18:31+00:00

I've been rejected so many times in the last two years you wouldn't believe. It does seem completely hopeless. Pot, music production, and video games are my life.

PopeSeanV · 2012-06-23T00:45:42+00:00

I'm only 22 and I've given up entirely.

Ironically this makes it easier to talk to women that I find attractive, because I know I'm not interested in courting them, so there is less pressure to say/do the right things.

hansleyj · 2012-06-23T01:36:07+00:00

I'm currently in a committed relationship, but the idea of marriage has always turned me off. I also know that if and when this ends, I can never see myself trying to date again. It is such a hassle, especially this far out of college.

AloysiusC · 2012-06-23T06:31:14+00:00

Consider buying it from professionals maybe. At least it's honest and cheaper in the long run.

And for companionship, you can get this independently from intimacy - from men and women btw. Lots of women appreciate platonic friendships with men.

rightsbot · 2012-06-22T20:52:16+00:00

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nplant · 2012-06-22T21:53:54+00:00

I'm looking for a wife, but I've completely stopped doing the things I only did to meet/please women. I'm so much happier now, and I'm sure the right one will eventually come along. If someone wants a one night stand, she'll need to do the work.

Of course, no one has. I'm fairly handsome and easy to have a smart discussion with. Still nothing. But I'm not bitter. This is better than having to go through all the bullshit.

Edit: please no replies about the dangers of marriage. When I said wife, I didn't mean the state has to get involved.

betaprime · 2012-06-23T02:26:23+00:00

If I go my own way, I fear that one day I will be old, lonely, and full of regrets.

2012-06-23T13:10:07+00:00

Yeah, I'm choosing not to have any dates.

Foreveralone.jpg

xXBlUnTsM0KA420Xx · 2012-06-22T22:35:29+00:00

I have a long-term girlfriend, however the last couple weeks have been less than satisfying and I don't know if we will last much longer.

The dating system is tough to win at. There are few relationships I see around where I'm thinking "that man has it all". I am not bitter towards dating in general and will probably continue to do so, but I do get frustrated at many (not all) women's inability to think of interesting, fun things to do and to take the leading role in them --brunch with her friends really doesn't excite me. It's usually me thinking of the fun things to do, and if I don't take the initiative sometimes women can act as if I don't care about her --it's frustrating to say the least. It also frustrates me how when my girlfriend does something nice she always points out how nice she's being --as if she doesn't have to do this, because I'm a man and I don't really deserve to be spoiled in any way.

But there are certainly positives to relationships as well. I read somewhere a long time ago that relationships where the girl is physically more attractive than the man are statistically healthier than two equal partners --and if it's true it wouldn't surprise me. I am much more likely to deal with high romantic expectations of me if, in turn, the girl is more attractive than other girls I could easily get.

thomasw · 2012-06-23T02:24:31+00:00

I quit dating a long time ago; I'm much happier now (it took getting used to), and I have money in the bank now. Marriage in the USA has become a totally dysfunctional institution, and is to be avoided regardless of the cost, IMHO. The effort it took for me to learn to do so was great, and so was the result. Jesus saves. :)

Clauderoughly · 2012-06-23T05:33:48+00:00

I gave up on dating ages ago.

Once you find a escort / body worker, you never go back !

seriously.

If you want sex, you make an appointment, shag her silly, and feel sated.

I have female friends for companionship, hell I have a woman I am marrying, but sadly she happens to be asexual. She is my best friend, and a real peach. She is also 100% supportive of my seeing my call girl.

So yeah... see a sex positive therapist, get some names of sex positive workers, and have fun!

That's why feminists / traditionalists are so against legalized sex work. It removes their market power to be the gate keepers to sex. It's also why the biggest "slut shamers" are usually other women.

2012-06-23T04:11:47+00:00

I refuse to participate in the economy to the degree necessary to date. It does sadden me a bit that I'm excluded from that area of life because of how I live, but I accept that this is just the nature of our current society. I'm sure in the far future people like me won't have it so bad, but we do right now. Can't be helped.

SchrodingersCat24 · 2012-06-23T01:36:43+00:00

If you haven't heard of John Calhoun or the Mouse Universe experiment I highly suggest it. Basically it shows that as population density increases, the number of acceptable social roles decreases. This results in more apathy from members of the society and eventual social collapse. I think this behavior, MGTOW's, is a perfect analog to the behavior of the asexual mice in the experiment. What do you think? Are we headed for a second death?

Source:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1644264/pdf/procrsmed00338-0007.pdf

2wsy · 2012-06-23T11:31:32+00:00

When I decided romantic relationships weren't worth the trouble I was going through, I met my pretty much trouble-free current girlfriend shortly after. 10/10 ; would decide this way again.

hevo4ever-reddit · 2012-06-23T02:21:31+00:00

Did it a couple of years ago. Instead of staying in [xxxx] north America, found a job in Asia, stayed a couple of years and now happy with my asian girl.

Get out of your comfort zone and go worldwide. There are lot of places where this game is not played.

justsomeguyudontknow · 2012-06-23T03:49:39+00:00

This is me, pretty much.

2012-06-23T09:20:28+00:00

I've never dated but I don't think I will anyway. Reading for a while this subreddit among other places I've must admit that in some way it made me feel fear of women (not hate, that's an awful thing).

2012-06-23T12:35:56+00:00

I've opted out for a couple of reasons, not because of female advantages but because of me. I just frankly don't have time. I don't want to ask a nice girl out and then not have any time for her. It isn't fair to her as a person. Though I suppose a lot has to do with just not finding a girl I am really interested in. Once I do though who knows, maybe I will make the leap. But for now I'm not really actively searching.

2012-06-23T12:51:30+00:00

I'd say I'm wary of legal commitments ( marriage, civil partnership, live-ins etc), but don't mind short term sexual affairs.

CrawdaddyJoe · 2012-06-22T22:08:01+00:00

Eh, if it floats your boat, go ahead and do it; nobody can force you to date. Best of luck.

ThePigman · 2012-06-23T03:14:21+00:00

Dating? What is dating?

karmat0se · 2012-06-23T14:50:58+00:00

I have. I generally don't care for "the dating game". I don't want kids and marriage is a scam. As most women in my age group strongly desire these things, I just don't see the point . Also, I hate having to justify myself or ask permission for anything from anyone.

Instead of spending my energies and resources on a woman, I spend my time wrenching on my car or at racetracks and show and shine events. I guess the bottom line is prefer good friendships to the drama of a "relationship".

copylefty · 2012-06-23T15:35:04+00:00

This... is me. I decided about three years ago that I was fed up with the singles scene in Houston and was tired of dating basically the same woman over and over and over, with slightly different looks. The women I meet seem very shallow, so much so that I believe they act stupid on purpose because they think that's what guys want. I doubt there's a quality that I could find less appealing.

I've been single for a while now and have enjoyed it tremendously. I have a very busy career with lots of travel (another sore point for many women) which takes up a tremendous amount of my time. I've never wanted children and still don't, and I'm over the whole 'chase' thing. If I met a friendly, intelligent woman who would act like herself, rather than how she thinks I want her to act, then maybe I'd reconsider.... but not if I have to sacrifice my own personality in order to have her. No woman is worth that.

TIL I'm a MGTOW, and I like it.

RC_5213 · 2012-06-24T15:20:53+00:00

Been doing this for a long time, well before I knew about MR. It's not that I'm not attracted to women, I simply don't care about interacting with them on a deeper-than-friends level. I've got life goals to work towards.

dbfuru · 2012-06-26T11:29:47+00:00

I have never properly dated in the past and I don't see myself doing so in the future. I believe that if there is a connection it will just work itself out. It was the case with my previous girlfriend and it was the same with my current partner.

I am not interested in the "dating game", there have been many topics on it but I just don't believe in the expectation of men paying for an outing or having to "perform" for a woman.

Clauderoughly · 2012-06-23T04:07:01+00:00

Meet a good woman, and the need is eliminated

(prepared for downvotes)

It's just so silly to make it into an "issue." If you don't want to date, don't date. But don't excuse apathy for dating with standing for a cause. To push away relationships out of fear of being fucked over is just sad.

zaferk · 2012-06-23T02:56:19+00:00

hey MRAs, hows that equality and sexual revolution working out for you? rip patriarchy.

TheAlphaRanger · 2012-06-23T07:27:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SpiritSouls · 2022-04-23T01:15:01+00:00

I know this is a 9 year old post and currently curious on how OP is doing, but I had opted out of dating and it’s been the time of my life.

Title	Men opting out of dating all together
Author	carterriser
Upvotes	151
Comments	207
Date	June 22, 2012 8:52 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vgbvh/men_opting_out_of_dating_all_together/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-opting-out-of-dating-all-together.1019267 https://theredarchive.com/post/1019267

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