Are there stereotypes about men from feminist that you don't understand?

a-man-from-earth · 2021-01-12T10:51:50+00:00

That we are supposedly misogynists just because we advocate for men's rights.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-01-12T10:57:38+00:00

The first thing to understand about feminism is that there is a lot of projection going on.

As for emotional labour, in the US, you actually mix that concept with the concept of "the mental load". Emotional labour is supposed to be the kind of stuff psychologists go through. And indeed, in relationships, from what I have seen, it's more often women expecting men to perform emotional labor.

The "mental load", on the other hand, is the idea that if you have to think about appointments, and about the hours and schedules of everyone, and remember to take x things from the supermarket when coming back from work, and... Then it can be exhausting for your brain, to juggle with all those things. Like a load you have to carry with your brain.

And, while it's true that such a concept is valid, I've found that a lot of that mental load that women complain about is self inflicted, and they are resentful that we don't take a share in it. I mean, for a lot of these stuff, there are all kinds of technological tools that can help you, and there's also a difference in how impactful those things appear to each. I know I tend to forget things. If I forgot to take something from the store, it's no big deal. If it's urgent, I will go back, if it is not, I can live without it. No need to make a fuss about it. But from what I've seen, many women seem to find this kind of attitude unbearable, and are not able to adopt it in their daily life.

On the other hand, what I've also noticed is that many men carry also a big mental load, with things like the responsibility to provide for the family, and all the concern they might have around that, but won't share it with their woman, so as to not burden her with it, and so those women don't see that mental load, and assume there is none.

And so, to the extreme, you've got the stereotype of the man who's exhausted and in burnout because his company might soon go broke, but won't say a word to his wife, while she naggs him for once again having forgotten to bring back milk from the store, and he's unreliable because of that... A stereotype we have all seen in all sorts of movies.

Mostly, I find that, while those concepts of emotional labour and mental load could be useful in a narrow set of circumstances, they are mostly wielded as a bludgeon by feminists against men, to give excuses to women for their nagging and their using of men as emotional tampons.

Note that those are just trends I observed, in no way scientific data, and that, as with all generalizations, there are cases contradicting it.

-SidSilver- · 2021-01-12T11:24:02+00:00

That men, apparently, just really, really want to rape, and that the only thing stopping us is being told not to.

Honestly this idea is kind of staggering (and disgusting) and so at odds with my experience as a man (and with basically any conversation I've ever had with other men) that it sometimes makes me think that the people implying it our outright saying it have never interacted with a male outside of what sounds like an awful, sexual context and genuinely don't consider men to be human beings. More like animals in need of training.

ithriveintoxicity · 2021-01-12T11:11:12+00:00

That gay men are supposed to agree with their ideologies. Like we are fully aware of the pervy narcissistic hypocritical side of women due to some of them sexualizes us like crazy. Why would we even support a more open version of those pervy narcissistic hypocritical women?

CringeCaptainI · 2021-01-12T10:51:42+00:00

If you have an ideology which doesnt accept criticism, you will end up with a lot of double standards and illogical conclusions.

In my experience im the "emotional" tampon for my female friends more often than i even mention my own feelings. But that might just be me.

Jakeybaby125 · 2021-01-12T11:52:17+00:00

That we should be feminists too if we want equality

Tmomp · 2021-01-12T12:55:21+00:00

Stereotypes:

Men don't feel emotional pain or suffering.

Men can't empathize or care as much about others.

Men organize to benefit all men at the expense of women.

All men receive the privilege that the most successful men do.

Men feel the urge to have sex with women and will act on it if they don't actively resist it.

Enzi42 · 2021-01-12T11:18:06+00:00

I never got that stereotype that "boys will be boys" is used to excuse rape and other awful behaviours. That phrase is generally used for boys roughhousing and getting muddy from playing outside and stuff like that. All of which is perfectly innocuous behaviour but that Gillette ad made it seem that roughhousing is a crime or something.

YesAmAThrowaway · 2021-01-12T11:56:51+00:00

"White cishet man bad" sums most of it up pretty well. Definitely no -isms and -phobias involved.

2021-01-12T12:53:26+00:00

Anyone who disagrees with them is a woman hating incel. If you're not a feminist you're sexist. Both are very stereotypical. You can disagree with a group of people you have similar ideologies with. I do want gender equality but people who are busy talking about mensplaining while there are women in the middle east getting gang raped by prison guards are not giving me the confidence that they really care about the issues.

EpsilonFactor633 · 2021-01-12T13:28:39+00:00

About the “emotional labor” thing: ever notice how they’re the ones harping about how men should be more in touch with their emotions?

Anyway, there are a lot of stereotypes they perpetuate that no one with a functioning brain cell should buy into:

The stereotype that all men are rapists, murderers, and so on, when only a very small proportion are.
The stereotype that men are lazy and useless, that women are the ones that actually get everything done, and that men often take credit for the work of a woman.
That we have life on easy mode, that we’re coddled throughout our lives, and that we’ll be handed everything we want if we just put in the minimal amount of effort.

manbro7 · 2021-01-12T11:15:23+00:00

I notice how everything is turned into a transaction. Unpaid labor at home which suggests they expect to be paid for doing housework but are not. Emotional labor which makes it sound like they're actually working and providing a service when they're not, while also devaluing actual paid work by trying and making other things seem equal to actual work.

It does seem like hardcore projection like the other comment suggested, because it's the other way around.

throwra_coolname209 · 2021-01-12T14:33:17+00:00

That men are terrified of anything "feminine" because we view femininity as weak. I'm exploring a lot of feminine stuff and the reason I don't go out in public wearing nail polish isn't that I'll be viewed as weaker for doing it, it's because nail polish is a decidedly feminine-coded thing and I do not stand a chance at presenting androgynously. Men not partaking in feminine coded things has so much less to do with mysoginy and way more to do with social expectations. Talking to feminists though, you'd think I hated women if I don't want to deal with the questions and side-eyes from middle aged men and women for not wanting to wear a skirt to the store.

Basically, society says that men shouldn't do feminine things because they aren't women - not because feminity is weak or lesser than masculinity. It's gendered expectations, where women have the luxury of more easily approaching traditionally masculine things.

To boot, I don't think I've met more than a few men who view feminine things as weak or inherently bad.

rreot · 2021-01-12T14:56:34+00:00

That men have unrealistic beauty standards and somehow enforce them on women.

matrixislife · 2021-01-12T12:05:20+00:00

Most of the time I see that "emotional labour" comment when someone doesn't actually have a good answer to a question.
I suppose it sounds better than "you got me".

lorarc · 2021-01-12T13:07:01+00:00

Unpaid housework mostly. I mean, that's something you agree with your partner. And on top of that I really do not care about the house being clean, not that I want to live in a pig sty but I can go without dusting the furniture every week, I lived like that for most of my life and I'm used to it. I understand she doesn't want my paperwork all over the dining table because I wouldn't want her paperwork there either, but if she cleans my desk because she "can't look at how filthy it is" it's not really my problem, if I would decide it was filthy I would clean it up, otherwise it's her complaining I didn't do whole load of work so she could be happy.

And let's not forget that men usually bring in much more money and work longer hours.

Not that I believe women should do all the work, I've seen households where a man works at a factory and when he returns home he just sits on his ass in front of the tv while the woman keeps the house clean, takes care of the children and often works herself. I'm just saying you can't complain about the work you're doing only for yourself.

redditthrowaway1478 · 2021-01-12T14:24:26+00:00

Anything and everything that they don’t always stems from this dogmatic, superstitious malevolence called “Patriarchy”

It’s seriously like talking to a religious fundamentalist.

Ask a Christian

“What’s the root cause of all human suffering?”

“The Devil”

Ask a feminist

“What’s the root cause of all human suffering?”

“The Patriarchy”

FightHateWithLove · 2021-01-12T15:36:55+00:00

That men act primarily for the benefit and approval of other men.

In my experience most men (especially straight men) are very preoccupied with winning the approval of women (even women they aren't sexually pursuing).

I know that when I accepted my sexuality one of the many liberating aspects is that I no longer felt desperate to be the kind of man that would impress women. The dating field among gay men allows for a much larger range of body types and personalities. When I was trying to date women I was constantly frustrated by how much my passive and easygoing nature repelled women, even the ones who seemed "strong and assertive". And it was impossible no to notice how much easier it seemed for the kinds of men who practiced what feminists largely call "Toxic Masculinity".

But whenever there's discussion of the kind of social pressures that are placed on men, you will always see someone chime in "yeah, by other MEN!" And that completely contrasts my experience.

If I could collect every "What, are you gay or something" type comment I've ever experienced and organize them, the pile received from women and girls would be substantially larger.

VeganGuy001 · 2021-01-12T14:12:00+00:00

That all men get benefits from domestic violence cases with female victims because it put women in check.

Yeah, I surely want my partner worried that I will assault her at any time. Who wouldn't want that?

2021-01-12T13:18:40+00:00

I remember one of the first disparities I found in the feminist narrative and reality was on abortion and how it was all evil men who wanted to control women's bodies.

First of all, resistance of abortion really comes from a belief that a human has a right to live at conception, mostly this is born out of a religious view, and is (if at all) about control of women secondary, AND--secondly--men and women are against abortion in almost even percentage.

It really dawned on me that the movement would rather censor half the picture to keep men the 'bad guys' and perhaps because they don't like (on a subconscious level) to acknowledge female opposition on one of their prominent wedge issues. Feminism speaks for women, don't you know, so it can't have women against it. Instead of correcting its view, it ignores reality instead; much easier.

ScaredDelta · 2021-01-12T19:28:22+00:00

That being left wing automatically means you’re feminist and hate yourself for being a man

WemedgeFrodis · 2021-01-12T15:53:36+00:00

the stereotype also doesn't make sense, men are known for keeping their feelings bottled up, its often used as a talking point from feminist to illustrate toxic masculinity, so I don't understand where the "Men use women as their personal therapist" trope comes from.

According to the theory and/or stereotype (depending on how you look at it) this is not a contradiction at all; one feeds into the other. Under normal gender norms, men are not allowed to or are limited in the ways they can express or process their emotions in healthy, constructive ways, particularly not in their masculine friendships. So, instead, it all gets shifted to the feminine friendships, in which emotional vulnerability is more accepted and encouraged. However, it would be ideal if men could express their emotion across a variety of settings, reducing the emotional labor on one person, and better insuring that it comes out in the appropriate contexts. So says the theory.

Obviously that's overly simplistic, and I'm not saying you should buy it, but that's the logic.

2021-01-12T16:21:54+00:00

They more often than not have contradictory stances designed to be mediasoundbites that always paints them out as victims

AmericanBoy505 · 2021-01-12T19:22:10+00:00

That boys “need to be taught not to rape”.

Do they even realize that are people who already think boys are natural-born sexual predators?

jukutt · 2021-01-12T11:05:14+00:00

There are a lot of stereotypes I have no understanding for in the sense that I see them as wrong and originating from trivial fallacies. I think however I understand what processes lead to such conclusions, so I understand them. So to answer your question, I cant think of stereotypes I dont understand.

beatstorelax · 2021-01-12T23:32:50+00:00

most feminists i talk to don't know ANYTHING about "real" men. they judge all based on the "Chads" that don't care about them besides sex

ninja_deli · 2021-01-12T20:32:49+00:00

The whole narrative behind emotional labor is so dumb, from an equality standpoint. Us expressing our feelings, to them, is emotional labor. And that's only if we do, which we usually don't by their expressed frustrations as women. But some of us do. So let's take that as they complain about it. We express our feelings. They say it's emotional labor. Wouldn't it be the same the other way around then? Women expressing feelings to male partners should be emotional labor right? Ask anyone that question and they will tell you no, and that that is part of being in a relationship. Right? So why the...double standard?

Another example, having children. Some women and feminists are now using having and raising children as emotional labor. Try and tell them that they made the choice to do so and that shouldn't be considered emotional labor. They will jump down your throat. Use the same argument about a single dad, or a dad helping raise kids and I'm sure you can guess what they would say. That's just a part of choosing to be a parent, stop complaining, blah blah blah men are trash blah blah blah.

Nath43673 · 2021-01-12T22:43:08+00:00

There's certain things that I just haven't experienced in my own life. I'm being asked to believe that they exist in large enough numbers to be a serious problem, but I have very little data in my own life to connect.

eg. the emphasis placed on crippling masculine expectations. My parents were neither particularly liberal nor particularly conservative. They seemed happy for me to express emotions appropriately. I never heard "boys will be boys" uttered in my house. Violence was never countenanced as an option for resolving problems, though my parents occasionally had arguments. I was encouraged to enjoy a range of things, from literature to music to sports (though my parents quickly realised that the latter wasn't for me). The key advice in my house seemed to be "everything in moderation". Like me, my dad always bought small cars, not because it is feminine but because it is economical.

AntiAbleism · 2021-01-13T02:59:52+00:00

That every man that talks to them wants to be with them and not just be friends and also, you know, be professional.

Blauwpetje · 2021-01-13T19:26:51+00:00

No, within a dogmatic system that has grown the way feminism has grown the last half-century, they all make perfect sense, although they also change all the time, but feminism is both dogmatic and opportunistic.

floriandeckard · 2021-01-14T04:06:38+00:00

I think they accuse us with stereotypes and certain behaviour while it is actually them doing those behaviors. Like the example you mentioned. They act like no women is cheating and all men are cheaters. Something about guilty psychology

Fedupington · 2021-01-14T15:54:41+00:00

Emotional labor originated as a term to describe the energy put by employees into pretending to be fine and happy for customers, etc. Like, say you're waitstaff and you're dealing with a rough work day, or have a headache even, or anything like that. You're still expected to put on a happy face and kiss ass for tips and what have you. And the term rightly identifies that as a strenuous part of the job.

Identitarians have stretched that term to mean, "Things you do interpersonally that makes me annoyed." It's because they have no class analysis and have reduced their understanding of politics to clique membership and petty slights and personal narrative. It is powerfully dumb.

BloomingBrains · 2021-01-17T22:58:17+00:00

They've shown for years that they don't care about our emotions, perspectives, and problems. In fact, they make light of them quite often ("oh, you have gripes about the dating market? Incel.") Feminists want so desperately to be seen as virtuous angels that toil to help groups even when they demonize those groups for being evil. Really tells you something about their insecurities, eh? No matter what point you bring up, they make something up wholecloth to reverse it on you, even when it's self-contradictory. It's a childish game, it reminds me of little kids that say things like "yeah, well, for every point you score I score a hundred" in kindergarden.

But the thing I hate most is how the term "nice" or "nice guy" has been hijacked. Yes, I know there are some legitimate truths about assholes that get angry as soon they're rejected. But this tiny minority has become a stereotype about men as a whole, and there is a persistent and delusional belief that every man who does act nice must be faking it because obviously men are incapable of being that way genuinely, right? And the worst thing about this is that we're erasing the language we can use to even talk about legitimately nice guys anymore, which is probably why this belief happens. If you say "I'm nice" or basically do anything that shows moral virtue, it's automatically assumed that you're peacocking and expecting sex for it. It pushes a lot of guys towards bottling up their emotions and affecting apathy.

Ombree123 · 2021-01-18T16:08:24+00:00

I actually I do understand. They believe that we need therapy for being all bottled up so they try to get us to open up etc, and when we do they feel like therapists. It's funny because they kinda put themselves in that position.

Also I'm personally the opposite, I often act like a therapists to my partners but I try not to do it.

Title	Are there stereotypes about men from feminist that you don't understand?
Author	TigerThen
Upvotes	112
Comments	101
Date	January 12, 2021 10:20 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/kvp2sl/are_there_stereotypes_about_men_from_feminist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/are-there-stereotypes-about-men-from-feminist-that.1062132 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062132

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