Mass circumcision event.

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I was not referencing any tale, but Eric Clopper's historical research on circumcision, which he presented in his play - sex and Circumcision, an American Love Story.

Wait, what exactly are you accusing me here of? Your argument was that getting sand into the foreskin is unpleasant, and leads to further problems, therefore, cultures living in sandy areas - which is where the two religions outright demanding, or practicing MGM come from, would cut the foreskin off to avoid sand accumulation - which you say is an issue.

My argument was that people have used underwear for ages to prevent debris entering their genital areas, and that sand will rub way more against an exposed glans in the first place, and that there were and still are other cultures, who live in arid areas that do not mutilate male genitalia - who seem to have been fine surviving for centuries without their genitals rotting away due to infections from sand buildup.

Something you, at first, claim would be a big issue requiring widespread societal amputation of the foreskin to prevent such issue, and then switch to arguing that the very same issue is not as prevalent.

Does that sound right at all to you? And I am not saying all this to judge you or anything. I have heard the argument you used before. However I have never actually critically though about it until now - and it made me realize how it just does not make any sense - and it is yet another one of those myths regarding circumcision that cycle around...

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I have to ask: do you actually have foreskin, or are you just making assumptions? Because you seem to have no idea how a foreskin actually works.

I can run around all day with a bit of toilet tissue in my foreskin by accident and never notice it, and cleaning it out is laughably easy. Furthermore, I used to live on the coast and have been to the beach or played in the sand hundreds of times, yet never once have I accidentally gotten sand in my foreskin. The only time I've ever really gotten anything besides toilet tissue caught in my foreskin is because I intentionally put it there, and most things will just rub into a little ball or oval which you can remove later.

It's not like people are shoving bits of glass in there.

Edit: I should note here that the foreskin naturally lubricates itself, and if something does happen to get caught in it, the thing just rubs into a little ball and falls right out. It's not like the foreskin is hungrily eating up all the dust and pocket lint it can find, it works to protect the glans by keeping it shielded.

All these people who freak out about 'but what if something gets caught under there?' have clearly never had a foreskin or read about how they function.

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It's terrible when you make assumptions about other people, you can be so so wrong.

Which is how I feel about your comments when you lie about foreskins and sand and other detritus.

it's quite likely to stay there for a few hours or even days.

Lol, what? Dude, cleaning out your foreskin is not difficult. The foreskin naturally lubricates itself and anything inside it will roll around until it falls out. That's how foreskins work. Did you break yours somehow?

Even when I've been deployed somewhere or I've been away camping or I've been somewhere I don't have ready access to a shower, the foreskin generally takes care of itself. And when it doesn't, you just slide it back, wipe it off, and you're fine.

Hell, in a pinch, you can pinch the tip closed, pee into it like a little balloon, and then release it, letting your own urine wash it out. Literally everyone with a foreskin figures this stuff out in grade school. A foreskin is so easy to maintain, you can forget about it for years at a time.

For example, the last time I ever intentionally put anything in my foreskin was over two decades ago, when I put a little cinnamon in it to see how it felt. It started as a pleasant tingling and became unpleasant very quickly, so I went and rinsed off with water and I was fine. No itching, no burning, no bullshit.

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I think if I was to be circumcised with a sharp stone, the way they did in ancient Jewish times, I would be MORE likely to rub my penis, rather than less likely…if only to try to feel something through the unevenly healed scar tissue.

I know I’m exaggerating a bit, and I’m actually a non-Jewish fan of Judaism as a religion. I see many of its finer points. My only complaint is that the traditional rules of Judaism sort of went through a period of being debated and formalized and then set down in “the book,” but why is that not a process that can ever be repeated? Why can’t rabbis of many international synagogues come together and have a conference, just as they did in so-called Biblical Times, to create new rules?

I’m not suggesting they would vote to do this, but it seems many people I know who are current dedicated members of the Jewish faith, are nonetheless not Orthodox. I think the feeling of many of them is that the ancient rules of Judaism were established at a time when much of their contemporary life wasn’t as it is today. Judaism can be a very practical religion, from my understanding, and it seems like Jews might consider having a set of modernized rules. Given that the rules were made at the time with the thought of being practical, rather than religiously correct.

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antisemitic

What a ridiculous assumption and accusation.

http://intactwiki.org/wiki/Jewish_Circumcision

Do some reading. The original Hebrew practice of circumcision, “Milah,” was decidedly NOT the same as it is today in the West. It used to be just the removal of the tip of the foreskin, leaving plenty of protection for the glans while preventing the rare symptom of phimosis (an inability to retract the foreskin from around the glans.)

The current practice, “Peri'ah,” from which the Western medical practice was modeled, was instituted much more recently (1800 years ago, ish) as a vindictive practice to prevent Jewish men from being able to look like their Gentile peers in public baths and sporting settings by restoring their foreskins.

vital

Also, the foreskin is vital to preserve the sensitivity of the glans. The original Torah practice still retained enough skin to protect the glans, but when a man is missing the entire foreskin, fully exposing the glans, the glans keratinizes over time, which negatively affects sensitivity and pleasure during sex. So not literally vital for life, but it’s pretty darn nice to have if you want your penis to work the way it was designed.

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I did ignore a Reddit post, yes. Why wouldn’t I? Should’ve said it linked to other things or posted the actual links.

But like the Reddit post, you can track down the peer reviewed papers that were summarized in the CDC report.

If there is true scientific debate on the topic, so be it. I’ll still trust peer review that simply monitored case studies vs peer review that attempts to prove its own hypothesis (usually a taboo practice).

The CDC isn’t perfect, every scientific authority is prone to mistakes and they got weirdly political with Covid. But I don’t see the politics here. There is a reason they chose the research I linked over yours, and I am going to assert that their opinion on the topic is better than either of ours.

My masters is in geology, so I’ll listen to the far more educated scientists over either of us. You’re arguing with the CDC in the end; I’m arguing with a kid on Reddit who thinks he is more medically informed than literal career medical experts with decades of experience.

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I did ignore a Reddit post, yes. Why wouldn’t I? Should’ve said it linked to other things or posted the actual links.

If you clicked on it you would have known.

The CDC isn’t perfect, every scientific authority is prone to mistakes and they got weirdly political with Covid. But I don’t see the politics here.

Circumcision is more political than Covid. It has been for decades.

My masters is in geology, so I’ll listen to the far more educated scientists over either of us. You’re arguing with the CDC in the end; I’m arguing with a kid on Reddit who thinks he is more medically informed than literal career medical experts with decades of experience.

Nice example of appeal to authority fallacy.

BTW you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with plethora of scientific literature against circumcision. And almost every reputable non-US medical agency:

Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) (2015) The CPS does not recommend the routine circumcision of every newborn male. It further states that when “medical necessity is not established, …interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices.”
Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) (2010) The KNMG states “there is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene.” It regards the non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors as a violation of physical integrity, and argues that boys should be able to make their own decisions about circumcision.
The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) (2010) The RACP states that routine infant circumcision is not warranted in Australia and New Zealand. It argues that, since cutting children involves physical risks which are undertaken for the sake of merely psychosocial benefits or debatable medical benefits, it is ethically questionable whether parents ought to be able to make such a decision for a child.
British Medical Association (BMA) (2006) The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefits from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient as a justification for doing it. It suggests that it is “unethical and inappropriate” to circumcise for therapeutic reasons when effective and less invasive alternatives exist.
Expert statement from the German Association of Pediatricians (BVKJ) (2012) In testimony to the German legislature, the President of the BVKJ has stated, “there is no reason from a medical point of view to remove an intact foreskin from …boys unable to give their consent.” It asserts that boys have the same right to physical integrity as girls in German law, and, regarding non-therapeutic circumcision, that parents’ right to freedom of religion ends at the point where the child’s right to physical integrity is infringed upon.
Danish Medical Association (DMA) (2020) Citing lack of consent of the child and his right to self-determination, along with a lack of health benefits which thus does not justify the risks of complications, pain, and loss of normal anatomy, the DMA concludes: “From a medical and medical ethics perspective, the Danish Medical Association believes that the current practice of circumcising boys without a medical indication should cease.”

You might have a masters degree in science but you are no better than some illiterate when discussing science.

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Antisemitism in the United States

Antisemitism in the United States has existed for centuries. In the United States, most Jewish community relations agencies draw distinctions between antisemitism, which is measured in terms of attitudes and behaviors, and the security and status of American Jews, which are both measured by the occurrence of specific incidents. FBI data shows that in every year since 1991, Jews were the most frequent victims of religiously motivated hate crimes, according to a report which was published by the Anti-Defamation League in 2019. Evidence suggests that the true number of hate crimes against Jews is underreported, as is the case for many other targeted groups.

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Antibiotics are terrible for you and kill? As opposed to chopping off part of your dick, which actually doesn't help you, and can - and often does kill infant boys?

As I said before, circumcision does not prevent HIV, or infections. Condoms and proper hygiene do...

No, we didn't. We started it because you came here to claim It is not an issue, yet you continue to argue with me...

You're acting like antibiotics are worse than literally mutilating your genitals. Besides, you don't eat them like tic tacs and you only use them when you have a bacterial infection. There are even creams which don't flush your entire body...

The foreskin is not a tumor, though..It is a functional and important human body part.

I tried to give you the benefit of being uninformed, but you're being willfully ignorant. Have a great life.

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or put your child through it

The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:

“Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.”

To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.

If an adult wants to circumcise themself, they are absolutely free to do so.

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Title	Mass circumcision event.
Author	TheConsoleGeek
Upvotes	1229
Comments	355
Date	May 2, 2022 5:17 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ugi9zk/mass_circumcision_event/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mass-circumcision-event.1115911 https://theredarchive.com/post/1115911

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