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Incels waging 'war against women' and pose 'emerging threat to children', study finds | UK News

Fast-Mongoose-4989

September 30, 2022
286 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://news.sky.com/story/incels-waging-war-against-women-and-pose-emerging-threat-to-children-study-finds-12706814
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Title Incels waging 'war against women' and pose 'emerging threat to children', study finds | UK News
Author

Fast-Mongoose-4989

Upvotes 286
Comments 130
Date September 30, 2022 2:09 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xs2c6w/incels_waging_war_against_women_and_pose_emerging/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/incels-waging-war-against-women-and-pose-emerging.1133345
https://theredarchive.com/post/1133345
Red Pill terms in post
incel
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Comments

[–]Alarming_Draw 126 points127 points128 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Notice how it never describes the "organisation" that posted all this propaganda and lies?

Just repeatedly refers to "the study". NO INFORMATION about the methods used. Or if the people involved were biased or feminists.

This is just typical fear mongering and hating in order to try to stop men speaking out or getting organized.

[–]Bosilaify 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

this is my fav part "Discourse is driven by 406 "power-users", who produce 74.6% of all posts, some spending more than 10 hours a day on the forum." so we're literally talking about 400 people like what. How is this a problem we have 320 people shot every day in the US and they talking about a forum of 400 people who no life it like wtf are we even discussing.

[–]JayTylGra97 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mind you, most of those 320 people shot…. ARE MEN.

[–]CircleToShoot 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Am I blind or did they not include a link to the study at all?

[–]Clemicus 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From the article:

Imran Ahmed, chief executive of the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), a British non-profit group which carried out the study, said: "Incels are not lone wolves or socially isolated.

Study: https://counterhate.com/research/incelosphere/

[–]Mechanik_J 139 points140 points141 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Looks like they're having trouble shaming men into a wage slave beta provider role. So much so that they now have to attack involuntary celibate men when it's not even men's fault. Women are just not choosing men.

And couldn't you just fix involuntary celibacy by legalizing prostitution.....?

[–]JacktheRipperColour 56 points57 points58 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

It's because most of these men aren't involuntary, they just know it's a bad deal these days. Women are providing less and less but trying to demand more. The people writing these "studies" are trying to attack men's groups because they are scared by them, not because they think they're going to be violent or predators, but because they know if all these men come together, they'll realize how little they really need women and how they can reclaim there masculinity.

[–]bottleblank 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Those, in internet parlance, would be MGTOW, not incels. They know what the deal is, they're often older, and they just don't want to be bothered with paying so much for so little any more.

Incels are still desperate for a chance, and frankly I find the "they just have too high standards" argument rather tiresome. Standards don't mean a damn thing if your experience of other people is "go away", no matter who they were.

[–]BitterCrip 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The "experts" who do these "studies" don't understand the difference between mtgow (I.e. basically voluntary celibacy) and incels (aka involuntary celibacy)

[–]NohoTwoPointOh 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They do, but lumping us onto the same evil helps their narrative. I don’t eschew women because the juice ain’t worth the squeeze. I do it because I’m some eeeeeevil mon-stah!!!!!

[–]mcc9999 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW isn't incel. It's when a man CHOOSES to eschew the company of women for any no. of reasons. An incel is a man who THINKS he can't get his sexual needs met by women even though he wants to and blames women for it.

[–]Visibbleman 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men do not choose to eschew the company of women, my friend. Top tier men have harems of women. MGTOW are men who realize the juice isn’t worth the squeeze or they are not wanted and respectfully take their leave.

[–]JacktheRipperColour 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We'll not sure about harems here in the west, but the women your talking about do seek out the top 20% of of males, usually for money and status. However a majority of two thirds of the population are female, so what's going on with these women and the other 80% ?

[–]ZenofZer0 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They like to conflate the two in order to try and force an association of shame into a group of men that cannot be controlled by them. It’s just a piss poor attempt at a power play. You don’t see MGTOW responding though. It’s cause they don’t care. that is why if/when you decide to go your own way, you do it with a clear conscience and without resent. It frees you and they hate it. Let it become their baggage, not yours.

[–]Mojorizen2 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone with red pilled rhetoric gets called/lumped with incels these days. It’s a shame tactic for ideas they don’t like and nothing more than that.

[–]JacktheRipperColour 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Funny enough the MGTOW get a really bad wrap in MSM for literally doing what feminists did before them, who got praise!

[–]JayTylGra97 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Especially when they are men that have too high standards for what they can attract. If you fat and guy you deserve someone fat and ugly. Unless you are rich as fuck.

[–]ashmed20 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There are different groups.

“Incels” who have “given up” and just want friendships. Others “incel” groups who want to talk shit about women because they don’t want to work on themselves.

Then you have the Tater Tots which all seem to be under the age of 21. The older more mature are fans of Jordan Peterson. That’s how you can always tell from the men from the boys.

Equally there are “kill all men” kind of extreme “feminist” groups.

[–]penishead694207 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Tbh tho lots of women are out on such a pedestal they don’t deserve men have to date down to such an extent it is not even close to fair

[–]ashmed20 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree!

I feel left out too because I’m actually a decent person (not meaning to blow my own trumpet), I am just a very plane Jane looking girl and I feel like because of my looks or independence (not alpha or masculine) guys don’t like that, I am very submissive when it comes to a relationship but I will stand up for myself when needed.

[–]ExpensiveBumblebee83 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not even that it’s more than that image one man or a group of them coming together that’s a community there which can help teach and rebuild the male community to become better.

A revolution is always started with a spark of a match.

Now imagine one man having ideas where not only will it move nations to rethink everything but put in danger the very systems that are set in place to keep men down and uneducated what do you think will happen to his followers and the people who want to get out from under an oppressive system that was created to keep them in chains for 30-50 years?

That is why they fear men someone who does not know who they are is easyer to control and manipulate by one or multiple groups of people.

[–]bottleblank 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And couldn't you just fix involuntary celibacy by legalizing prostitution.....?

No, because a key factor is that a potential partner to an incel must want to be with them. Buying an hour of a prostitute's time isn't a real connection. It might get you off, it might even teach you a thing or two about how to have better sex, but it's not a real relationship, it's 100% transactional, and she doesn't even have to like you to take your money. The missing piece in inceldom is a lack of social connection, which that scenario doesn't provide. Proof, I would suggest, that it's not simply about sex, otherwise yes, hiring a sex worker would solve the problem.

[–]Midi_to_Minuit 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If simply buying sex was the issue then incels would do it lol. Cheap sex is not too difficult to find, and is even straight up legal in some places. But even in fucking Amsterdam you've got incels.

[–]mcc9999 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have stopped looking to women generally entirely to get my sexual needs met. Truth is, there's a lot of women who for a relatively small amt of money will blow you, jerk you off, fuck you, and do so w/o giving you any grief. They can be found in massage parlors and on certain social media apps. I use these as ways to get my needs met. Other than that I ignore women.

[–]Valacycloveer1080 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Legalising prostitution wont solve the problem for some men who want women as an emotional counterpart ;(

[–]MiKEY_SANZ 158 points159 points160 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

"Study Finds" means nothing in the year 2022

[–]Liberated_Asexual 33 points34 points35 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Study finds only cis-gendered men are toxic, but transgendered men are wonderful — peer reviewed by top gender studies professors.

[–]whtsnk 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Trans men suffer at the hands of feminism, too. No need to exclude them from our movement.

[–]Liberated_Asexual 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No harm intended, just making what should be an obvious joke (but could also realistically be a major media tabloid's headline in today's world).

[–]whtsnk 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But that’s just the thing: It wouldn’t be a realistic headline.

Feminists treat trans men like garbage. Same as all other men.

[–]RedditIsProMisandry 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not as much. Most transmen are on the side of feminists. They can’t be trusted

[–]javerthugo 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Top “men”

[–]whatafoolishsquid 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There was a "study" that found carbon fiber is part of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity.

[–]goinsouth85 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not that hard to believe, given the sexist air conditioner

https://youtu.be/MNH0bmYT7os

[–]goinsouth85 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Study finds that 90% of studies and 80% of statistics are lies.

[–]randomusername1934 79 points80 points81 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Politically motivated activist group writes a lengthy piece demanding that the people they disagree with be silenced.

I shouldn't be surprised that this is presented as a neutral 'study' in the media, should I?

[–]Tank-o-grad 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly no.

[–]bottleblank 66 points67 points68 points 3 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

Warning: this article contains terms and references readers may find offensive.

Like it being inflammatory bullshit?

Incels are not lone wolves or socially isolated.

That's exactly what they fucking are, that's the point, they're lonely as all fuck because they were never given the opportunity to click with society.

"Obviously not everyone in this community is violent,"

No shit.

The problem for law enforcement is telling the difference between someone acting out on the internet and someone who poses a threat, he said.

Oh well, we'll just shovel them all into Gitmo then, shall we? "Just in case"?

Look, dipshits (or, rather, NGOs and media profiteers), this problem is going to get worse if you keep painting these poor bastards as dangerous paedophilic rapists. Most of them aren't, and you're encouraging people to treat even those who have never and would never do anything to harm a single being as though they are.

You're pushing them further into their bunker, because they can galvanise around your accusations. Even those who wouldn't previously have let harmful content slide are going to be more willing to overlook it because they feel accused themselves, they're going to be more willing to join the group of people they feel they belong to against you, because you're the enemy. The enemy that is not only broader society, largely representative of those who excluded them in the first place, but a spearhead organisation of that broader society, trying to further kick these men when they're already (very, very) down.

They need help, not criminalisation. They're experiencing severe psychological trauma, extreme ostracisation, accusations of being violent terroristic criminals, they've got mental health issues and disorders such as autism. Many grew up in bad households, in bad schools, being cast out, bullied, abused, ignored, psychologically taunted and manipulated.

They just wanted a fucking girlfriend, man, that's all.

[–]KobeBean 16 points17 points18 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

America does a terrible job with mental healthcare, so I’m not surprised the ball is being dropped with incels.

The real question is, when did it become socially acceptance to make people who need help/psychiatric help/relationship skill training societies punching bag? Imagine if these clowns were like this to people with disabilities?

[–]bottleblank 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of them do have disabilities, especially if you include ASD (which does count in some countries).

But I think the problem is that nobody sees them as people with issues, only as sexist men who demand the privilege of women's bodies. Doesn't matter if they're both the same people, the perceived risk to women takes priority, even if it's neither true or more important.

[–]Scandi_Navy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One, they are men and feminists are waging war on them with misinformation about marriages being oppression.

Especially undesirable women have been fighting for a dating market that ensures they don't have to sleep with a man that matches their looks. Which is the case in a monogamous society.

Using arguments blaming husbands because states tied voting to conscription. And no credit cards because states made men legally and financially responsible for their wives.

Then there are the woke that gladly pile on with racist undertones against specifically all white men being oppressive slave owners. While historically all nations had slavery. And the word Slavic people literally comes from the word slave, and they are white.

The funny thing is that they all want to date Chad. Some think bringing a career will get them there. Some try to promote promiscuity to be ready at Chad's becking call. Some try to redefine Chad. Some try to fool Chad into being beta. Some break up their children's families for a night with Chad. Some rather stay alone swiping Chads hoping one won't ghost them.

Chadvious chadtitlement. They are basically sub 5 female relationcels wanting to date rich male supermodels.

[–]OK_G4D4E-P01NT42 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mental health lol

[+]Cat_in_the_hat113 -45 points-44 points-43 points 3 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

They just wanted a fucking girlfriend, man, that's all.

And they are not even remotely entitled to have one at any point in their lives. Ever. Nobody is. This is what they seem to not understand.

[–]IronJohnMRA 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wanting something, and being entitled to it, are not the same thing.

[–]WhereProgressIsMade 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And yet when there are articles about how 30+ year old women are saying there is a shortage of "quality" men for them to marry now that they're ready, no one dares tell them they're aren't entitled to one. It usually ends up being about how men need to step up or similar. You go, gurl; don't settle!

While I will agree with you that there is not some kind of right to a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, it is pretty apawling the double standard.

Monogomy (one sexual partner for life) seems like it was a way for cultures to try to distribute things rather than have women share the most attractive men. Now that it's fading away, and sharing is the norm (in the form of serial mongomy mostly, but also some guys basically maintain soft harems), it should be no surprise there's a growing pool of men at the bottom who find it more and more difficult to find any kind of romantic relationship.

[–]TheSnesLord 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Indeed. Had it been an article about a 30+ year old man saying there's a shortage of "quality" women for them, the same women would be screaming.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s funny how women will argue over an apex fallacy (all rich men being CEOs), but don’t mind giving a select set of men that same role by being in their harem. I guess it’s just too empowering.

[+]Cat_in_the_hat113 -17 points-16 points-15 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

it should be no surprise there's a growing pool of men at the bottom who find it more and more difficult to find any kind of romantic relationship.

OK but there's nothing to be done there. They can work on themselves to the point they are desirable, or they're bang out of luck. Focus on something else. Or get a prostitute.

[–]WhereProgressIsMade 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

OK but there's nothing to be done there.

If you want the current freedom, then yes, there isn't really anything to be done. Female nature is to be more attracted to the most attractive men and when they're free to chose, that's what they do, even if it means sharing.

There is no win/win/win/win solution between what's best for men and women's sexuality and what's best for children & civilization. Monogomy was just one example of a compromise; it has plenty of faults and I don't claim it's the best option. The current state of affairs with the sexual revolution of the 1970s is a win for women in their 20s (sexual access to lots of men with much less shaming for it) and men at the top of the attractiveness scale (enjoying all the women lined up), but a loss for older women (DiCaprio is a bit extreme in how he moves on when his GF gets to 25, but that's basically an extreme example of the trend), less attractive men, children (increase in single parent homes, which have worse outcomes for kids than with both parents), and civilization (men at the bottom don't have a family to work hard to provide for, and often tend to just do enough to get by).

They can work on themselves to the point they are desirable.

This is good advice for men in the 4-7 range of the attractiveness scale going from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest. Working hard on things can raise a man's attractiveness by 2 to 3 points or so. There's a limit. No amount of work is going to turn a 1 into 10 for example. A 4 who works hard and becomes a 7 can most likely find someone who will marry him. A man who works hard to go from a 1 to a 4 tends to find that every female 2 to 4 won't "settle" for anything less than a 6+. So why try? I can't blame him there.

Another thing that is happening is that there's no longer an expectation that marriage means being reasonably sexually available ("to have and to hold" was the polite euphemism for it). More and more men are comparing notes and have figured out that marrying a woman who is barely attracted to you is a bad bet as most likely the bedroom will dry up after she's done having kids. So working hard and being willing to marry a 3, still has high chances of not resulting in something men tend to value (regular sexual access). So that realization has more and more men deciding why put in the work? I can see they're point. Sure, there's more to a relationship than sex. I figure it's a tool to help gauge how healthy a marriage is. If it's not there, something is probably wrong. Just because it's there, doesn't mean it's a healthy marriage, but it's more likely the case at least.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Based. Modern men and (mostly) women show their true selfishness when they want to uphold “le standards” yet fail to see the superficial society that’s come from the sexual revolution.

[–]TheSnesLord 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And women aren't even remotely entitled to have any man they want in their lives either. Nor are they entitled to a man's money. This side is something women don't seem to understand at all.

[+]Cat_in_the_hat113 -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, but if they can get it, they get it. If men can get it a girlfriend, they can. If they can't, they're out of luck and that's that.

[–]TheSnesLord 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then tell your sisters on TikTok to stop the "wHeRe HaVe AlL tHe GoOd MeN gOnE" posts.

[–]VTOLfreak 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Don't expect people to keep playing by the rules if you pretend a basic human need doesn't even matter and then shame them for it.

[+]Cat_in_the_hat113 -24 points-23 points-22 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

if you pretend a basic human need doesn't even matter

Do you mean sex? If so, what do you propose be done about it? Force people to sleep with them?

Don't expect people to keep playing by the rules

OK, and then they'll continue to be broken down, crushed and ostracized as their lives lurch from one complete failure to the next. They're just breaking down amongst themselves and stewing in most Western countries, while being increasingly banned and boxed into the smallest amount of places where they can exist, and in the U.S. they might be a very effective group to symbolize and finally achieve major gun control legislation nationwide off of.

Either way, they just keep losing.

[–]ijustdontcare74 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think he means sex. He means basic human connection and feeling valued and wanted. These guys are isolated from even basic human contact which is a biological need in most species.

[–]VTOLfreak 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Even without a partner you'll be fine if you have a large enough social circle around you. It's not lack of sex, it's social isolation and loneliness that gets you. And this is not necessarily tied to economic status, you can be very successful in your career and then fall into a black hole at the end of the day because you don't have a single person to talk to outside of work.

[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Why and how are they so isolated?

[–]bottleblank 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Because some people just grow up not being able to find social acceptance.

It's a cliché, but think "nerds", "geeks", "loners", "losers" in high school. Nobody thinks they're cool, nobody wants to be around them, nobody cares, the only attention they'll get is to be the punchline of someone's joke, the target of someone's prank, or the receiver of someone's fist.

Growing up like that can leave a very serious scar, because it's deprived you of a very valuable time to learn how to be social, to learn how to be considered valuable, and to learn how you're supposed to behave in order to get certain types of relationships. It's not always about high school bullying, it can be mental disorders, it can be a problematic home life, and I'm sure other things besides.

The takeaway, though, is that some people aren't given the chance to gain those tools, and enter adulthood confused and without a support network. Everyone they ever knew showed and told them they were a sucker, a loser, a waste of space. You can't learn social skills when that's what you have to work with. Obviously that makes it difficult to form romantic and sexual relationships too, because you didn't go through that period of exploration, and you feel like you're too late to the game, on top of already feeling like you're a worthless loser for having been denied access to socialisation.

So you withdraw. You hide away. You "know" nobody likes you, nobody wants you, so you avoid the pain of hearing it again, and again, and again. But that deprives you further of the chance to learn those skills - not your fault, because you were put in that position by others, but it has that effect nonetheless. So as you get older, you become increasingly lonely, increasingly miserable, increasingly hopeless that anything can change, because it's too late, and if you weren't good enough then, well, you're definitely not good enough now.

Then we end up with incels. Lost, confused, lonely, broken, hurt, nobody to tell them it's not their fault, nobody to help them move forward, nobody to lift them up. The media calls them out for ending up where they are, naturally they get more angry, they're being kicked when they're down. That's how you radicalise people like that, by proving them right, by showing them that nobody does care, that their experiences were true, that everybody does consider them untouchable.

Anybody could get pretty abrasive, given that kind of history, and that kind of treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Based.

[–]Cat_in_the_hat113 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So what do you think is the solution? Because it feels like most are ready to just mow them down or mass institutionalize them at this point.

[–]bottleblank 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, start giving a damn (as a society), that'd be a great start. Stop demonising men for being socially unsuccessful, give them a helping hand, include them, don't write them off as "creepy" and throw them to the wolves. Or at least stop writing news stories about how the 99% of self-proclaimed incels are just as mentally twisted as the other 1% like they're some kind of terrorist cult all aiming to rape and abuse.

Since that's not likely, we need more mental health support, we need more places to meet, we need better help for those who grow up with social and mental difficulties.

There are, according to internal surveys, a significant amount of autistic people in the incel community. Checks out for me. But what help do they get, in the real world? None, or very nearly none. At least none of any practical value to figuring out the entire rest of their lives. So start fixing that.

For those who aren't autistic but may suffer from anxiety and/or depression, mental health support, something suitable for their position, administered by professionals trained in understanding the position these men are in.

For those who are neither autistic or clinically depressed, provide more options for socialisation, ideally cheap or free, so they can experiment with just hanging out with people, get them used to it, show them it's not all hell on earth and that not everybody hates your guts for not being into sports or whatever.

I've said it before but I'll say it again because it's relevant here: when you grow up suffering this social landscape, it can wreck your entire life, or at the very least hold you back sufficiently that it feels like it has. If you don't have social skills, you don't have a relationship, you don't have a good job, you don't have a decent home because you can't afford one. It has massive knock-on effects. All because a bunch of assholes decided you were a little too quiet back in school. You might brush that off with "get over it, you're not a teenager any more", but it can murder your self-esteem, especially in combination with other issues in your life, like an unsupportive or problematic household.

This is the kind of thing which leads people to become twisted and broken. There is no way out, because nobody cares - especially now, with news articles about how these men are dangerous criminals who should be "dealt with", and how women fear for their lives because Johnny over there grew up getting the shit kicked out of him every week, and now that's somehow his fault that he's got a few opinions about the kinds of people who treated him that way, and what he knows he's clearly missing out on in life because he felt like an unrecoverable loser for 10 years. This is especially bad in a culture which makes learning how to socialise with women very difficult, because everything appears to be (even if it isn't) a crime. Just a simple mistake, you can get dragged through the mud, even if you didn't mean any harm. How does a young man take a risk on that, to bet on potential success?

So we need, as a society, to be paying more attention to this. It was true for me, 20-some years ago, it's true for many of these incels now. If you're not socially successful as a kid, there's a fair chance you'll fall through the cracks as an adult, and in a world where we seem to be rushing to the aid of every minority (and women) because they're disadvantaged, it's a spit in the face to men who did fall through the cracks, and are told "it's your fault, deal with it yourself, or else we'll put you in jail for not figuring it out".

If your goal is to keep somebody out of the incel communities, you must adopt the anti-piracy approach. No, not the one where you just sue everybody into the ground, but the one where you offer better than the illegal option. Cheaper, more convenient, more positive. That is what we need, but for the emotional support of boys and men who get left behind. Give them something better than the incel communities they're left with, in the absence of anybody else who cares (or even pretends to).

[–]IceCorrect 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean sex?

Why feminist think that only value women bring in men life is sex?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s their biggest insecurity. Many times, women that are shooting above their league will give it up fast (feminist or not) hoping the guy will commit. But, they subconsciously know he won’t, although they’ll conveniently ignore that.

[–]Cat_in_the_hat113 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Either way, they may want girlfriends, but they aren't getting them. So either they focus on making themselves desirable to a woman, focus on something else, or they're out of luck.

[–]IceCorrect 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why men allways need to waste time to fixing themself? Why any relationship problem is at men fault, like I never hear how women can done something wrong, maybe stop putting so much burden on men, beacuse not everyone have hercules strenght

[–]Cat_in_the_hat113 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why men allways need to waste time to fixing themself?

Because men are the depressed and frustrated ones over it. Women aren't complaining, and if they did it'd be their problem too.

[–]IceCorrect 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or they just gaslight everyone, like I hear from women that complain about hook-up coulture (which they created) and suprise, suprise in their eyes its mens fault.

How men can be better if bar keep going up?

[–]Narrow_Eggplant3867 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I kind of agree with you, but the thought process I use is fairly different from most people. If I encounter an issue the first question I ask is, can I change this? If yes, is it worth the effort? If the answer to question 1 is no, oh well. If the answer to question 2 is no, oh well.

For example, if I marry, I have an 80% chance of getting divorced (and losing everything I've worked for over the last 20 years). Can I change this? Not likely in today's society. So, instead of wasting my time getting better so I can get a girlfriend or wife or even be more appealing to the opposite sex, I'm going to focus on being the best me that I can be and living my best life (i.e. setting myself up for early retirement, learning to do something that I love that can earn some money (woodworking, photography, etc.) so that when I retire I'm not stuck on a fixed income.)

Love it or hate it, my life, my wallet, my future, my choice.

Alot of women are already asking where all the good men have gone. This number will increase as men are driven away from marriage by divorce courts and women themselves.

[–]BitterCrip 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL if you aren't entitled to something you aren't allowed to be depressed about not having it

[–]notquiteright519 -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I do feel badly for socially awkward people...whatever the gender. But like you said, no one is 'entitled' to a girlfriend/boyfriend.

And to poster above...yes actually, it's fair to paint a group by the same brush because everyone in that group is either posting, or reading and not calling out, other men who are being rapey and hateful and misguided. So of course when you see red flags like that, you're going to try to spare 'innocent' kids and young men from falling down that rabbit hole of hate.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And to poster above...yes actually, it's fair to paint a group by the same brush because everyone in that group is either posting, or reading and not calling out, other men who are being rapey and hateful and misguided.

Are you consistently calling out the radical minority of your race/gender/ideology? If not, you’re part of the problem.

See how stupid that sounds?

[–]notquiteright519 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well I think it's all our jobs to keep things under control. I mean, we are a society. If I was on a group full of women who talk about men being useless and we should kick them in the nuts when we see them...you bet I'm calling that out. I've called out friends who talk about the 'man-baby' or 'man-cold', no one needs that talk anymore. It doesn't help anyone. We all have a responsibility, don't we?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

We do have a responsibility, but that comes with accountability.

Where was the backlash for #KillAllMen? This entire narrative of “it’s not a few bad apples; it’s most of them” is only applied in one direction: against men.

[–]notquiteright519 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, I hadn't heard of this 'killallmen' thing...honestly people as a whole these days care far too much about what is online and maybe don't recongize that when you maybe just meet people and have conversations with them face to face, we'd be a lot happier. But I digress....

I do agree that for some reason, it had become 'acceptable' for all the anti-men sentiment to run rampant in the aftermath of the popular feminism wave. All the 'we don't need a man'! stuff is ridiculous. The whole point of feminism, to me, was to understand how our society became such a patriarchy, THEN strive for equality, not to 'rule the world'.

So, to your point, yeah, there SHOULD be outrage against stuff like that. it's unacceptable and really counterproductive from a stand point of 'we all have to live in society together, let's make it great for ALL of us'. I'm sick of the us vs them.

[–]Narrow_Eggplant3867 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

people as a whole these days care far too much about what is online and maybe don't recongize that when you maybe just meet people and have conversations with them face to face, we'd be a lot happier. But I digress....

You have a good point.

There used to be a time where every town/village had an idiot or a group of idiots. With the creation of the internet and social media, those fuckers went global.

[–]notquiteright519 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol, yes they did! They are somehow now on equal footing with the rest of us because no one can 'see' how demented they are in person. Now they're hidden behind avatars and we can't tell they're missing half their teeth and live in the back shed.

I feel there was always hatred in people, but now hatred has a platform and to your point, they now have a global audience instead of just the corner in front of the coffee shop. It's scary.

[–]Just_Luck_5495 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure how this got downvoted, but since it did I probably ended up checking a pretty dangerous sub

[+][deleted] -25 points-24 points-23 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you’re an incel my dude. You took that real personal

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s usually the people who jump to shame men that are incels. It must be a self affirmation tactic when you’re in denial.

[–]Throwawayingaccount 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It must be a self affirmation tactic when you’re in denial.

I'm not so sure about that.

Openly attacking the already ostracized is a good way of gaining social currency.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Both can be true, especially seeing as we’re on a Reddit.

[+][deleted] -15 points-14 points-13 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Go abuse Zoloft or something lol

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Something tells me I was right.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m married hahahaha

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Doesn’t mean much nowadays.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Clearly lol

[–]bottleblank 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope, just aware of what growing up with those issues is like, and sympathetic to those who are.

[–]Brandwein 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Proving the point here with further shaming. Nice self own.

[–]BitterCrip 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"We shouldn't bully men who are lonely and depressed"

"Sounds like something only a virgin incel loser would say"

[–]4chan_c00kie 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Meanwhile, please come join our mathematics class to learn why white men are evil

[–]B1G_Fan 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Has Purdue University’s Engineering School entered the chat?

[–]NITAREEDDESIGNS 47 points48 points49 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Incel as a form of self-identification

"self identification"? LOL

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They have to keep using that term so the men who are truly involuntarily celibate, don’t begin to think “oh wait, that’s me” and speak out against it.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

These cunts are totally experts lol

[–]NITAREEDDESIGNS 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It would seem...

[–]ColonelVirus 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't actually understand the term incel it seems to encompass so much shit.

Like I've not fucked anyone this year yet, am I considered an incel? Or are you only an incel if you're actively trying to fuck and not getting anywhere? What's the line?

I've been single since I was 18 and have not been in a meaningful relationship the whole of my adult life. Does that also class me as an incel? Or because I can talk and function around women means I'm exempt.

It's a very strange identification.

[–]TheSnesLord 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Funny how it's always men are targeted and attacked when it comes to this kind of issue. Maybe they should take a look at the kind of stuff on FDS and TwoX.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A study, you say?

[–]B1G_Fan 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Aaron Clarey wrote a fantastic book called "The Book of Numbers"

He took three statistics pertaining to the United States

  1. The percentage of women who are marriage material
  2. The percentage of women who are willing to marry an Average Joe 5
  3. The odds that a marriage will be a happy marriage

And came up with ABYSMAL odds of a date resulting in a happy marriage

He looked at how hitting the gym, dressing presentably, and getting a good job can improve the odds of a first date resulting in a happy marriage to better but STILL BAD odds.

Any dude who was lied to about how spending the first 30 years of his life becoming a marriageable man is meaningful endeavor with a decent rate of return is going to be understandably unhappy

And, some guys take their rage and frustration too far.

But, most of us who are understandably pessimistic about the chances of a happy marriage just want to be left alone.

We don't want our money taken from us to prop up the government which incentivizes women to not care about what men want. We don't want the media to lecture us about our poor work ethic while not giving a damn about what caused our work ethic to atrophy in the first place.

But, no, being left alone is too much to ask for these days...

[–]Woozuki 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Meanwhile, these woke, feminist, idiots:

"cHilDrEn ShOuLd GeT liFE ALtErInG TRaNsGenDeR TrEAtMenTs"

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"we want men to have children"

"ok, lets insult them by calling them incels"

[–]Admirable-Door1724 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

These studies find posts by trolls trying to make mens groups look bad and they use those troll posts against us.

[–]ZenofZer0 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are some bad dudes out there. I’m not going to say that it’s incels in particular although they do have a higher propensity for becoming unhinged. The more important part I think, is the radfem world. It’s not hard to find, talking about being unable to rape boys cause they get hard. They talk about “murdering” unborn boys (their words not mine) because they’re male. There’s much more but I think that gets the point across. My point is that it’s radicals period but because being a radfem is trendy right now, we only address half of the issue and blame all of it on one group. It’s just a bunch of stupidity.

[–]K1ngcrabbo10th 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Kinda live under a rock so I'm using the word incel as a Male who's not smashing puss (that's what I think it means) but if men not smashing is a super bad thing why doesnt these feminist do something about it? Also being a man whore is a bad thing but when a man doesnt "whore" themselves out then it's also a bad thing?

[–]purrkittengirl 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not about men smashing puss most women don’t care about men who choose not to fuck women it’s more about the small number of men being violent towards women because of all the hate created by feminist which in all honesty is not as many women as you think they just seem to be the most loud spoken and put themselves in more powerful positions it’s such a shame these days everything is so crazy when in reality women and men should be supporting each other building each other up

[–]Mrkvitko 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I just love how the incels are described as "people that feel unable to find love" or is a form of self-identification...

We have no problem realizing there are people that will never be able to graduate an university. Or climb out of poverty. Or that there are people that will never get good at computer games, driving a car, cooking, and million other activities. But when it comes to relationships - it's always "there's someone special for you", or "have you tried doing X? I got my current gf there".

Most people need someone in their life. It's the same kind of need as a need of shelter, food, or of acceptance by others. And just as a homeless guy cannot just "make some money and rent an apartment, incel can't just "take a shower, hit a gym and get gf". These people need our support, not demonizing.

[–]EvidencePlz 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay. Totally valid points.

But what exactly are the incels asking for which they think will serve as an ultimate solution to their problem?

If and when I'm hungry, I go outside, buy food, eat and problem is solved. What do the incels need? Is it only lack of sex or sexual intimacy/activity? Can't be. Cause if that's the case then it can be solved very easily, either by themselves (they will have to pay for escorts) or by the government (e.g. incel John is too poor to pay, and therefore the govt. pays on his behalf).

I for one don't believe it at all when incels say they can't find a gf / long term relationship. It's complete bullshit. If you can help me meet an incel in real life, I'll prove to him in less than an hour, using actual evidence, that what he believes is complete bullshit.

[–]Mrkvitko 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They are not asking for a thing that is an ultimate solution, because they believe such solution does not exist. That's the point of so called "Blackpill" - they believe if you don't have the traits women find attractive it's basically game over for you and your chance of finding love and happiness are non-existent.

If you are hungry, you go outside and get some food. But there are people that cannot afford that. If I remember correctly, for most of them sex is not the main thing they miss - it's the romantic relationship (the sex usually comes with it, though). And you can't get that from escorts.

I'm not sure if they're right in everything. But as a guy that stopped trying to get a relationship a long time ago, I can certainly empathize.

[–]EvidencePlz 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

because they believe such solution does not exist

Damn. Now it gets even more complicated for me. I as a MGTOW fully understand what MGTOW is. But this incel subject matter got me totally stumped.

[–]AbysmalDescent 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Calling incels dangerous because violent extremists exists makes as much sense as calling homosexuals a dangerous group because Jeffrey Dahmer existed. Incels who are angry, discouraged or hurt by the way they are treated or antagonized, or at the many gender inequalities that disparage men, have a right to express their feelings about how they are treated. Historically, people in the lesbian, homosexual and bisexual communities most certainly had their share of anger against homophobia as well, and certainly had their share of extremists as well.

[–]KochiraJin 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think incels are dangerous to a society because they are both vulnerable and insufficiently attached to society. That makes them prime recruits for a variety of extremist ideologies looking to expend them on whatever deranged cause they follow. Of course vilifying them will only make things worse. You want to give them purpose and connections to fix the problem. The solution to the potential danger of incels is to help them.

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You could say this of any marginalized group. You could just as easily say that there would have been a time where gays and lesbians could have been recruited by extremist ideologies because they were vulnerable and disenfranchised.

[–]aigars2 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're a man and defend you civil rights you're labaled an incel. It's sad and funny at the same time.

[–]Vaudeville_Clown 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Let professional psychologists analyze this instead of people with bullshit degrees underneath the sociology umbrella.

A psychologist would say it's hard to say which posters truly mean what they say, from those that are just trying to provoke a reaction from society.

The fact that incels have been posting more insane and depraved stuff since the time they've been hunted by the media is a huge tell.

[–]bluehorserunning 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's also the fact that insane, depraved incels occasionally actually go on shooting/car rampages to kill as many people as they can.

[–]Chudsaviet 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The word "incel" itself triggers me. It's kind of open labeling like "fat", "con", n-word, "techbro".
But it's socially acceptable right now for some reason.

[–]EviessVeralan 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Even if you gave incels the least amount of benefit of the doubt i still dont see how theyre a threat to kids.

[–]Blackeratill 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on what front, since that community has bred a few mass shooters that targeted children.

Then again, the media doesn't even comprehend the difference between incels as a group or movement vs a generic insult that has become popular for bashing men in general even where it doesn't make sense.

Actual incels, as in guys who identify by that term and ideology, aren't very abundant.

[–]Chudsaviet 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because "threat to kids" easily triggers readers. It don't have to be true - most people just read the title. Typical journalist bullshit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Humm, yeah no. Some of them turned into freaks...

I have seen some really disturbing shit from 4Chan.

[–]Your_Agenda_Sucks 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how choosing not to engage with superficial women is interpreted as "waging war".

[–]almostadaddy 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2021/01/18/gell-mann-amnesia/

Only in this case it is worse because the "article" and "study" are both hit pieces.

[–]LS6789 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More vilification of those who won't tow the line with the divisional violent crime enabling, (and lets be honest lucrative) .U.S. post modernist identity politics/eternal victim mentality perpetrated by both hatemongers and con artists.
The fact it purposely uses such loaded language proves that it's biased, the typical lack of any link to the raw survey data nor properly describing the organisation is also suspicious as it prevents anyone from criticising it in detail.

[–]pappo4ever 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We are winning, boys.

[–]Mojorizen2 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s ok to generalize incels. Because fuck men, that’s why.

[–]b11734 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

With the abandonment of any semblance of traditional male and female roles in society (not the crazy extreme version but the ‘there is no difference between men and women’ version) there is less incentive to find a quality partner that shares your values and wants to raise a healthy family with you. When men are just the same as women where is the incentive to seek to be more or better. Many women now claim to want a weak, feminist, beta male and then are existentially unhappy when they get one. Then they blame the man for not being a ‘man’. Some women are mental cases. Real shit shows.

[–]GloryToChadlantis -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Incels are just low t males who whine on internet. Only a few actually do anything.

Worst part is most these guys could get laid if they just learned how.

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Love the labeling they give others...but say something about their 'group' and watch the fireworks!

[–]EvidencePlz 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What the hell is an incel? Asking seriously. Every time I ask, I get different answers from different people.

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