Ladies, how big of a role, would you say that socialization plays in the psychological, emotional and behavioral differences between men and women?

Loose-Bet-3787 · 2023-01-31T19:07:57+00:00

I was raised in purity culture and it was toxic. It made me think relationships with men were solely based on sex and I felt uncomfortable with most men. I felt like I had to guard this thing that they would take. For so many reasons that shit is toxic. I developed lots of shame around sexual desire which made me frankly jealous of young men. It’s so normalized for them to be openly sexual. i feel like that’s 100% a social conditioning thing.

Miserable_Yam4778 · 2023-02-01T04:42:08+00:00

I know socialization plays a role in my attraction, because I live rural rurally and the trait I value most is competence. A man could be otherwise perfect,but if the idea of chopping firewood or changing oil is objectionable to him, I'm immediately turned off.

Most people I've met in my daily life who put a big emphasis on nature over nurture are usually looking for a way to excuse their bad behavior. "I can't help it, it's just in my nature" is the battle cry of people who are fully disinterested in bettering themselves.

caobozo · 2023-01-31T18:51:58+00:00

i genuinely think most of it. i can't think of a factor that isn't at all affected by socialization, but i'm open to it

ohdiddly · 2023-02-01T02:15:02+00:00

If I had to put a number on it, I'd say nurture plays 90% of the role. We can see behavioural differences across different cultures, and what people believe are 'universal' differences, aren't actually universally observed.

itsokiloveu · 2023-01-31T21:43:54+00:00

I have a psychology degree and found my “relationships” class very interesting on this exact topic.

They did a study which concluded that men typically have “side-by-side” friendships (for example, standing next to each other while watching a sports event or sitting next to each other at the bar stool) while women have face-to-face friendships (as in, directly facing each other during conversation).

I currently have a 9-year-old brother in 5th grade. Watching him interact with other little boys is COMPLETELY different than I remember myself as a 9-year-old girl. They tend to fight each other physically, have conversations from far away, and would rather be active while talking than seated (like making brackets or a drawing).

Anyway, my point is that boys unfortunately statistically are less likely to form close emotional bonds like girls are. They have less of a support system, aren’t comfortable delving into their traumas, and generally gloss over their feelings with statements like “ya bro, it’s alright” instead of going into detail.

There’s a reason men have a suicide rate 7X higher than women. They are criticized and frowned upon for having or exhibiting any emotion at all, while women are encouraged to express themselves.

I believe this plays a large role in the difference of socialization and the primary reason men are not as emotionally in-tune or aware as women are.

This is why women seek men who are on a similar level of emotional intelligence (which is difficult to find due to the suppression of feeling and “stoicism” men face), while men tend to find women overly-emotional.

MistyMaisel · 2023-01-31T19:43:51+00:00

My brothers and I were raised the same in the sense: no sex before marriage. Sex before marriage is bad. Don't do that. I think the only minor difference is that my brothers were told never to pressure women for anything physical and I was told if a man was pressuring me he wasn't a good man.

Honestly, I kind of wish I'd been told boys will take advantage of you. That would have been true. I'd have taken a boys are willing to use force/rape too. That would have been solid advice. I was far too innocent of how bad some men can be. And I'm sure my father did try to warn me to some extent, but I was so not surrounded by that environmentally that it didn't add up.

I think you're question is forgetting that the social element and biological element have a third element: environment. You can tell someone boys are the worst all you want, but if the environment isn't supporting this claim, it won't stick that well. Especially because the biology will want different.

I do think how I was socialized about sex certainly stuck in a certain sense. I certainly had sex pretty late. I believe/d that it meant something. But rather than the whole waiting for marriage, it turned me into someone who felt I should really have a good grasp on why I was having sex, why I wanted it, and why that person.

I don't think I was raised with very different, goals, values, fears, and desires. I do think I was sort of taught unlike my brothers that I was in charge of my own emotions and that my problems were mine to solve and I shouldn't necessarily look for others to come along and do stuff for me. And I do think because of this I actually learned coping mechanisms, where as I would say I often don't see that in the people around me. I do think my father tried to socialize me to exist for the pleasure of men, but my mother was having no part of that.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-01-31T19:44:02+00:00

About 50% nurture, 50% nature. However, I do think people can dishonestly frame what they believe to be "nature", particularly with things like evolutionary psychology.

CimZim · 2023-01-31T18:55:10+00:00

Ladies, how big of a role do you feel socialization plays in creating and promoting differences between men and women?

Speaking purely for myself, it really didn't do much. I was raised in 2 very religious households, treated as a girl, given girl expectations of getting married early, having kids, duty sex ("because women usually don't like it, but your husband will"), being happy with a 1950s housewife life with a breadwinner husband and going to church every Sunday and PTA meetings twice a week.

I never bought any of that shit. It was never what I wanted and didn't reflect any of my personal values, even as a child/teen. I'm sure a big part of this was I'm an avid reader, the only person in either home who would go to the library and devour book after book. Guess you could argue I socialized myself through reading? But even so, I think my nature is just different. I've always been a tomboy, never really bought into faith/religious beliefs past age 14, never wanted kids, the idea of pregnancy makes me want to sew my vagina shut, being married is not anything I planned to do, I don't like living with other people. You can teach a kid XYZ their entire childhood...doesn't mean it's going to take.

Are we more of a "blank slate" than people realize?

No, I don't believe in that stuff. Read the book As Nature Made Him by John Colapinto, and read books by trans authors about their experiences. I think we are who we are, and socialization plays extremely little role.

Has your socialization played a big role in shaping your views on the opposite sex?

It showed me how NOT to view men and boys. Basically took what I was taught and did the exact opposite, because that felt waaaaay more natural and right.

Are men and women still raised with very different goals, values, fears, desires and coping mechanisms in the modern age?

In my personal experience, yes...but nobody ever said you had to do what you were told.

nastyfella · 2023-01-31T18:41:02+00:00

I saw a YouTube video from big think and the expert they were interviewing said 50% of your personality is genetic/ you were born with it and 50% is socialization. Of the socialization piece 50% is your parents and 50% is your friends and peers. Of corse this is very simplified and differs from person to person. That being said I think socialization plays a big role in shaping how you see sex and the opposite gender. I was raised with positive messaging about men and sex and it has served me well I think. I have a healthy relationship and sexlife

_revelationary · 2023-01-31T20:25:11+00:00

I think it’s significant, but there’s also a complicated interaction between nature and nurture. Genes/biology and environment aren’t separate spheres at all, they are constantly shaping each other.

EulenWatcher · 2023-01-31T20:05:10+00:00

I think socialization plays a big role in gender differences and it starts really early. I’ve witnessed how a girl who can’t even talk yet gets praised for being cute or brushing her hair while a boy of her age gets praised for stomping the ground or building something out of his toy blocks. Then e wonder why women spend so much more time and money on their appearance - for a lot of them it’s one of their socially “ingrained” ways to get validation.

I also don’t find much practical sense in trying to justify everything by nature. We can’t really conduct experiments on kids to figure out what is nature and what is not, but whether detrimental behavior is natural or nurtured, we should aim to correct it with the way we raise and socialIe our kids. If men are more aggressive due to hormones, maybe we should teach boys to be nurturing and caring instead of promoting violence among them. If women are more agreeable, we probably should teach girls to stand their ground and learn to prioritize themselves etc.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-01-31T19:49:08+00:00

My parents never did the whole ''men will rape you/only want sex'' thing, but they did tell me to be careful when it comes to sex and people I date. And you know what, they have a point. Because there are guys out there who would assault a woman if they got the opportunity to do so, and there are guys out there who would just have sex with someone and then immediately ghost. I think a healthy amount of warnings when it comes to sex and relationships is something every parent should give their kids, both boys and girls. While most people out in the world aren't giant assholes waiting to fuck you over to get something from you, those people do exist and you should know how to recognize them.

But yes, socialization plays a big role in how we view sex. If your family and your social circle treat sex like a sacred act that is to only be had between two people in a committed relationship, that's most likely going to effect how you view sex. If your family and the people around you are all ''free love, enjoy yourself'' that's also going to affect how you view sex. I think people, for the most part, get mixed signals on sex. We see that sexy ladies are used to sell anything from burgers to cars, but heaven forbid you see a nipple or someone goes around topless at the beach*. Women are told that it's a bad idea to just jump in bed with your date immediately, but also men don't like women who make them wait. Men are constantly exposed to porn that is absolutely marketed to them, but are also told they're gross for wanting the things they see in there.

*talking about the US

gofigure62 · 2023-01-31T19:37:54+00:00

It's significant. Which is why men and women behave, think, and act differently globally depending on how they were raised, and the cultural expectations they were required to engage in.

Generally in most cultures girls are held on a tighter leash, and given more responsibilities and priorities than boys. In most cultures boys are left to their own devices, while girls are raised with far more expectations and boundaries.

Most parents and culture don't "teach" boys and men anything. Nothing is expected of them. Where as girls are always being policed on what to say, how to act, how to feel, and how to demonstrate their feelings in public. Girls are told that doing "X" will hurt someone's feelings, and how to be "lady like". Boys are left alone, told to "man up", or their behavior is completely dismissed by saying "boys will be boys".

Of course there are exceptions to the rules, but typically girls are expected to support the family (with cleaning, childcare, parental care, and even financially), while boys are pretty much allowed to free range and do what they want with little to no input from the adults around them.

People internalize that and rarely break out of the brainwashing as adults.

Dcombs101 · 2023-01-31T19:08:12+00:00

I don't know that I've ever sat and thought about my socialization growing up, and how it affected my views on men, but I'd have to say yes, it did. My parents were not particularly religious, my dad always told me that I didn't have to marry and have kids if I didn't want to, my mother never talked bad about boys/men. Maybe because she had brothers whom she genuinely loved and all grew up to be good men, and a brother in law she thought the world of.

I have always liked men in general, still do, but I can see now I had zero pressure to grasp on to one early, nor was I ever warned that all men were bad. How's that for realizing my parents did it right, all these years later? Wow.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-01-31T21:36:27+00:00

Yeah absolutely.

To what extent, I'm not sure.

I do think nature plays a big role but I remember how when women are told this test will assess how well they do against men the test scores fall (where they otherwise don't in the control groups)

That's not a nature, that's a nurture. I have noticed that women tend to do more "inside chores" growing up and so notice the house messiness more often and therefore are more "neurotic" about cleanliness. Men, who tend to do more "outside chores" growing up have a tendency to notice that stuff more than women. My husband definitely notices more when my car is dirty until he can't deal with it and washes it himself. I am more likely to get annoyed if dishes aren't done and laundry isn't done until I get annoyed and do it myself

This isn't a study, just my personal anecdote. I've had the same experience with flatmates. Men who were only children/didn't have a sister and who's parents made them do lots of inside chores growing up notice mess on the same level women flatmates did. Women who didn't have brothers and who's dad's didn't automatically take care of the outdoor chores noticed those stuff more than I did.

Men are supposed to like plumbing and all that DIY stuff. But I grew up poor so I know how to do those. My husband is more likely to just hire it out. And as adults I am definitely more likely to take an interest in a house's plumbing or electrical boards than he does.

I have also noted that "masculinity" differs in different cultural contexts. Blokey bloke kiwi masculinity is a very far cry from the Asian masculinity that I grew up in.

WomanSelectMen · 2023-02-01T04:07:31+00:00

It's all negligible. All of these problems simply don't exist when a woman truly desires you with all her heart and body.

lovelythecove · 2023-02-01T06:32:10+00:00

Well, gender socialization literally begins in utero. And parents — even well meaning, progressive, gender neutral parents who are trying to be conscious of their bias — are observed subtly treating their infants differently from birth. They talk to boys less, they hover over girls more, they use more feeling vs. action words with girls and more action vs. feeling words with boys, etc etc. Gender socialization becomes clear quite early on, too, somewhere in late infancy.

There was a study done where babies of both sexes were dressed as the opposite sex unbeknownst to the strangers participating, and then the participants were asked to play with the infants and rank which toys they felt the infants were more engaged with. Every single participant thought the “girl” babies liked the “girl” toys and the “boy” babies liked the “boy” toys. Of course, this is bullshit, because the “girls” were boys and “boys” were girls. In reality the infants had varying levels of interest in any of the toys, but the participants belief they were playing with either a boy or girl impacted what they perceived the infant to enjoy more. There are many such studies with similar results that show these sex differences aren’t very pronounced, but the socialization is, and then you see sex differences arise more aggressively in late infancy.

And this happens across the board, at all ages, from parents, teachers, family members, peers, etc., literally beginning in utero when parents find out the sex.

As someone with extensive experience and education on young children who is now the mother of young boys (toddler and fetus), it’s very obvious how much this happens. My son isn’t simply energetic, he’s “such a boy.” My fetus is going to be “wild like his brother” and I’ll have my hands full” with all this “boy energy”… because my 5 month old fetus kicks a lot? His literal only interaction with the world already has this projection on it simply because the ultrasound showed he has a penis. Family gift my son soccer balls and trucks. He’s literally 1. He doesn’t have a preference for soccer or vehicles. But they know he is a male so they buy specific “boy toys.” When we got him a doll, my father in law said something like, “Oh that’s nice but you know, other people might be weird about it.” Weird about what? My 1 year old having a doll? Can you imagine anyone saying that about a 1 year old girl? Do you think 1 year old girls are any less fascinated by a soccer ball rolling than a 1 year old boy is?? Etc.

At a higher level, you see things like girls performing worse in STEM classes when the ration is more boys to girls even when the girls know the subject more than the boys in the class. Etc etc. It starts in utero and doesn’t stop.

So yes, some things are surely nature, but most things are nurture… that doesn’t make them any less real. No one can “opt out” of gender socialization so these things have very real implications for each sex. But most of it is not innate.

Think_gawd · 2023-02-01T13:34:08+00:00

Women are FAR more impressionable.

CruelAngelGradThesis · 2023-01-31T19:00:52+00:00

Pretty large I think. Being a homemaker for example is a very rare thing in my family. The boomers in my family staunchly believe that women should be self-sufficient and that basically trickled down to the following generations.No matter how well-off her husband is she needs to be educated and have strong career prospects. So being a SAHM was never something I wanted.

My dad stayed at home for a few years after my mom was promoted to a comfortable six figure salary, and it seems like the time away from work added years to his life. Therefore, I decided that I wanted to work like my mother and give my husband the option to stay home or work a job that isn't very stressful or demanding. Many people look at me as if I'm crazy when I say that, because apparently a woman like me is only supposed to date men with similar or higher aspirations. I don't understand the appeal.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-01-31T19:02:17+00:00

Of course I think socialization has a lot to do with our sexual approaches. That’s not to say nature has nothing to do with it, I think our subconscious biological urges shape us as well, just to a much lesser extent than red pill would have one believe.

I think the difference between men who have had sex pushed on them being their road to manhood and emotional connection and acceptance and those not socialized that way tends to be obvious in their approach to dating and sex and relationships.

I think there’s a difference in women too. I was never taught that sex was bad or to stay away from boys. I was a dork so boys didn’t notice me anyway lol so I don’t know maybe my parents didn’t feel the need to warn me per se, my sex talks were pretty run of the mill. I have very little shame when it comes to my sexuality, but I don’t have casual sex. Maybe it’s because I was a late bloomer and married young, maybe it’s my temperament, I just get incredibly attached via sex, it’s a very personal, intimate act to me, I am open to trying different things and experimenting and exploring, it makes me feel closer to my person, so I likely also view sex as a main way to emotionally connect.

I have had female friends who were locked down like a cat in heat and kept away from boys and they have very unhealthy views on sex in my personal opinion, they just have a lot of shame surrounding it, they don’t openly talk about their sex lives much and what little they say… it’s not good… like it’s very much a duty to them. I do wonder if the way sex was taught to them affected them that much. Would be interesting to research.

WiddershinZen · 2023-01-31T19:07:44+00:00

Not a female, but wanted to make an observation :

Nota Bene -- "Boys will rape you/take advantage of you/get you pregnant" all have the underlying message of "Your sexuality is the most valuable thing about you". Even though it isn't explicitly stated, this message is internalized at a young age. This should not be underestimated.

edit: spelling

Safinated · 2023-01-31T19:05:34+00:00

If you’re worrying about what people will think, or feel that you have to do it, it’s socialization

jellyroll8 · 2023-02-01T02:47:18+00:00

Have you ever thought WHY your sister and you get told very different things? It is true that male's of every species want to have sex with as many females as possible, while females of any species want to have sex with the best male, simply because females are the ones who are burdened with childbirth. A man has nothing to lose when he has sex, so the responsibility is naturally put on the woman. Your parents warn your sister about men because they WILL try to have sex with her, they WILL try to use her, she may be lied to and manipulated for sex by men. This is the way it is across all cultures. Men want to have sex and women are urged to protect themselves, and it's all due to biology. Practically any 'socializing" we have is ultimately there due to biology.

AutoModerator · 2023-01-31T18:23:31+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

ConstanceVigilante · 2023-01-31T22:53:12+00:00

I think a very significant component of it is biological. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the biological differences always line up with the way traditional gender roles work, though.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2023-02-01T13:30:24+00:00

Some but I don't care how much for either

Sade_061102 · 2023-02-01T17:41:07+00:00

As someone who’s doing a degree in this, it’s honestly like 90% this, this is why in some other cultures, especially when you look at tribes, gender is COMPLETELY different, in some it’s even the opposite to how it is in western society

dumbbitchcas · 2023-02-05T02:43:17+00:00

Huge. I was pretty much raised like a boy by my dad (boys clothes, archery, shooting, the 4H, weightlifting, dinosaurs, big dogs. Thanks dad <3) and missed out the female bullshit socialization (cleaning toys baby dolls princess crap 🤮. Once again, thanks dad. You’re a real one) and I lack the social grooming most women have which makes my quality of life and self worth much better.

But on the other hand, from my mother I alwyas got the “men are the enemy” treatment. Specifically “girls want relationships boys want sex” and honestly I’d say that’s pretty accurate anyway.

Sade_061102 · 2023-02-07T13:47:45+00:00

A lot and this is shown by sexual desire being almost the exact same in countries where men and women are more equal

JackedPapist · 2023-01-31T20:53:45+00:00

Serious proposal: if you’re a man, inject yourself with a total of about 700-1000mg of testosterone propionate within a week (divide into 3-5 doses). Tell me after that if you think having 10x the androgen levels has any concrete impact on your day-to-day experiences and behaviors.

This is just one small part of it.

Title	Ladies, how big of a role, would you say that socialization plays in the psychological, emotional and behavioral differences between men and women?
Author	Urbantexasguy
Upvotes	48
Comments	104
Date	January 31, 2023 6:23 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10q6dxg/ladies_how_big_of_a_role_would_you_say_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/ladies-how-big-of-a-role-would-you-say-that.1150546 https://theredarchive.com/post/1150546

Comments