The Cycle Of Feminism/SJW Inclusivity

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I actually find it funny how much people think that they're free thinkers for getting all of their information about the world from reddit. I've noticed after five years on this site that comments on certain topics are overwhelmingly the same thing said again and again, post after post, year after year. Five years ago the conversations reddit was having about, say, Japanese politics, are identical to the ones reddit is having about Japanese politics today.

Reddit is overwhelmingly middle-class to rich Americans and Western Europeans reposting shit that they read on reddit before. It's mind numbing at times how clueless they are.

The upvote/downvote system is behaviorist conditioning. It's the dogs salivating at the sound of a bell. Pavel's theories on learning and social conditioning are out of date, to say the least, but they hold true for much of reddit: people are positively reinforced for having majority opinions and punished for having minority opinions.

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I dunno. I understand something had to change, but take a look at Scouting in the UK and where that headed.

It's been some time now since girls started being admitted. Badges were renamed to be more inclusive, and many of the male leaders left and were replaced by women. The uniforms were changed too, to appeal more to girls.

This effort to accommodate girls certainly worked, and today boys make up only 25% of new recruits. The leadership are scratching their heads about how to recruit more boys, while still promoting the increase in girls as a big success.

I think the problem is not with older Scouts. Once their hormones start kicking in, they're happy to be around the opposite sex. With younger kids, who make up the vast majority of new recruits, it's different. Boys tend not to want girls around and vice versa.

So today, girls get to choose between the all-girl environment of Girlguiding (which is going from strength to strength... hmmm... I wonder why), or the mixed but female-dominated Scouting. Boys get no choice, and appear to be leaving for activities that naturally segregate many of the girls away, like football clubs (which themselves admit girls, though fewer join by choice).

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The 3rd-wave feminist movement is loud but it doesn't actually have that many people behind it. My mom was a nurse for 20 years (a very female dominated profession, she was also a devout feminist) and she's constantly advocating for men to go into nursing. She said a female dominant workplace is frusterating for everyone, the men add a lot of balance and most female nurses love having male coworkers. Not only this but a lot of patients would prefer to have a male nurse look after them for personal reasons. Women need to get this "everything would be better if men weren't around" fantasy out of their heads. Careful what you wish for, it's not like women are perfect either.

Relating this back to the post, most women at this gym probably really don't care about women's only gym time and like the social aspect of being able to meet guys at the gym (potential friend/lovers with common interests). But if just a few SJWs band together and get angry enough about it then the gym is forced to make changes to its schedule to keep them from literally protesting the place. It's more and more often you see this happen, businesses making drastic changes that most people didn't even ask for and suffering because of it, all just for the ideal comfort of misandrists.

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Attributing the changes at this gym to feminism isn’t necessarily true though.

But one of the core messages behind it has influenced it. Insofar as if you try to start anything for men only, there will be loud protests and boycotts because "Men only spaces are misogynistic". That is, until you concede to their demand of inclusion. Look at the flack hobbies like video games still get for their "Misogyny" and "Exclusion".

I’m quite sick of the cultural meme that women are good and men are bad.

Yeah, and feminism refused to fight this. Even though they bill the movement as for equality.

Feminism has more social capital though and the way this sub attacks it takes away from the real issues.

Not exactly. A very minuscule portion of women and men identify as feminists. The rest agree with what it USED to be about but are casting a wide berth due to the damage it has done to men in order to elevate women instead of keep them on an even keel with their counterparts.

And yeah, I disagree that attacking feminism takes away from the real issues because, again, they did, and continue to do, terrible damage to gender relations. They're the ones front in line to protest any proposal in support of men like Shared Parenting and a Gender Neutral approach to Domestic and Sexual Abuse.

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The entire political "left" in the Western world comes to mind. I'm not sure the designation "leftist" even make sense any more, since SJW's have very little in common with the traditional left as it existed in the west. The traditional left defended civil liberties including freedom of speech, opposed imperialistic wars, and focussed mostly on class issues. To the extent that they focussed on race and sex they tried to overcome such issues in the name of equal treatment.

The first major labor union in the US, the Knights of Labor, was created mostly by white males; it also allowed women and blacks. The Industrial Workers of the World, founded in the early 20th century by mostly white males, again allowed women and blacks (and unskilled workers). The Democratic Party under Roosevelt, which institutionalized the right to strike, abolished child labor and made various other reforms, gained most of its support from working class white males.

Fast forward to today. "Straight white males" are rhetorically attacked by Democratic Party politicians, functionaries and journalists; the NDP in Canada wants to prevent "straight while males" from being nominated when a seat is vacated; and the Labor Party in the UK recently banned straight while males from its youth conference.

"Intersectional feminists" and SJW's are essentially useful idiots for the plutocracy. They encourage maximum division based on race, sex, etc. while downplaying or even ignoring class issues. This is remarkably similar to what the robber barons did in the late 19th century during the Gilded age. The net effect of these "strategies" will be to encourage more and more white males to vote for far right wing parties, who at least pretend to represent their interests. It's almost like billionaires are funding both sides...

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I'm gay and I don't want straight people in gay clubs, for multiple reasons.

Straight guys fight each other and act out impress women. There's basically zero violence I gay clubs otherwise
In some gay subcultures behaviour that's considered "sexual harassment" in the straight world is perfectly acceptable. I don't want straight men getting insulted or violent if they get hit on or felt up
I don't want to navigate through a sea of straight guys to find someone to suck my cock. That's baically the rest of the world outside of gay spaces
Women are obnoxious when drunk and in groups and I don't want to deal with them
Because there are so many more straight people, spaces that become popular with them can easily be completely overrun, defeating the purpose of having gay clubs in the first place

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Your personal relationships are your business, however you are entitled to the legal rights and responsibilities that everyone else is. China is a blast if you’re gay apparently. About 7 years ago I had a gay friend from Israel living in the port city Dalian who wanted to visit a gay bar. I speak Chinese so I got a number from a gay Chinese guy for a gay bar. Nobody answered but I got a call back and the dude was super cagey but when he found out I was a foreigner he was totally cool. Long story short the bar was mega hard to find, totally clandestine experience, I knew when to nope tf out and my buddy sucked and fucked his way into oblivion for his entire stay. It’s all different now with Jackd and Grindr. No need for a Chinese speaking whiteboy like me if you wanna bang. But remember it is a different experience for gay people with the one child policy forcing gay offspring to marry, plus the traditional culture. You should go, you’d have fun.

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It isn't immediately clear what this has to do with Men's rights however it absolutely does have everything to do with it.

This is the method by which SJWs remove the rights of many groups, including men.

SJWs cannot change things through reasoned arguments and logic, partly because they don't have any reasoned argument to make and partly because their ideology is rooted in postmodernism i.e. nothing is true so we can only rely on relative experiences. This flies in the face of logic and reason which seek to be as objective as possible.

It's the politics of victimhood and they've become very good at it. The image OP posted is a summary of their playbook, of how they enact change without having to provide any real argument. They guilt people with good intentions into changing things under the guise of safe spaces and equality, when really it is only safe for certain groups and has nothing to do with equality.

Some areas where the tactics OP is describing are being used that I have noticed have affected me: - They have utterly infected Hollywood. - They are doing their best to use this method in politics. - They have infected the gaming press. - They are currently doing their best to make safe spaces in the Warhammer 40k and Magic the Gathering communities.

And yes they are absolutely using these tactics to erode the rights of men. Just look at the wage gap: 'I don't like that on women earn less than men on average. I feel like it must be discrimination. Change it.'

The workplace is going through steps two and three (and a little of four) right now despite the fact that the data and research, reality if you will, show us that it is due to the different choices that men and women make. Women, in general, choose jobs that are safer, have fewer hours, are less physical in nature etc. SJWs are outraged as they feel discriminated against, but reality shows women generally do different work so they earn different pay.

OPs post makes their tactics clear and will hopefully make it easier for some people to recognise them for what they are and counter them with logic and reason.

TL;DR Being able to identify SJW tactics is useful as then you can do something. OP's image highlights some of these tactics in bullet point form. This is useful many groups, including the MRM who will have to call these tactics out for what they are: trying to make the feelings of particular groups more important than reality.

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Only a small minority of the feminist movement want to actually eradicate men's rights though. Most just want equal rights for women, which is a good thing.

The mainstream of feminism is interested in the MRM only to try to stop it and what we want to do. Perhaps the majority of self-identified feminists are not like that, but those who control the organizations and power are like that.

For me this sub should be that - a sane conversation about men's issues, not a shit throwing contest about who can make the best angry memes.

This meme wasn't angry. It was an accurate and mildly humorous description of a set of tactics generally employed by SJWs. It was an attempt to limit the effectiveness of these tactics by mocking them. Taking the wind out of the sails of the opponents of the MRM seems to me to fit squarely in the idea of "a sane conversation about men's issues".

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Aren't most of the people on this sub pro rape?

What could possibly give you that idea?

Or is that just the once who are also into red pill / seduction bullshit?

Men like and want to connect with women and vise versa. There is no traditional way to learn how to do this when you want to besides trial and error. Even the desire to want to learn to be social with women/men is somehow seen as there necessarily being something wrong with you. This naturally degrades into a lot of suffering and confusion for men and women alike. If you feel you can contribute to that kind of discussion constructively, people in both those subs will listen to you, but they will challenge you. Be aware though that those discussions are extremely frank and directly address problems in everyday life.

What percentage of these subs overlap?

Does it matter? What is the overlap between the niceguys sub and twox?

It's irrelevant. Judge the discussion by it's content.

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Look through my fucking post history you idiot. Never have I once commented on any feminist post, I am not subbed to any of their subs, and I firmly hold the belief that men and women both have their own unique problems (because of biology, and society, and many other factors) but each group's problem isn't more important than the other's. I use r/mensrights because I am a man.

Secondly while I do certainly tell pretty shitty jokes, there isn't really any evidence of my being a troll.

Thirdly, I know very well from my several months on this sub that this is not a space for hating other people. Giving others shit doesn't make the world a better place for men and boys. What this sub is for is for having discussions about the issues we men face, and to promote community activism that will improve the lives of men and boys around the world.

Plus of you want to know the origin of my name, I got it because one of my friends kept calling me a "wholesome guy" as a joke (because I'm as boring as a slice of whole grain wheat bread)

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I think people struggle to see the forest for the trees. Going after women only spaces, SJWs, and throwing Trigglypuff on the poster is a reaction to inequity. But men and boys only spaces is also something we want, hopefully we wouldn't cannabalize worthwhile co-ed groups in the process like we've seen happen the other way. Although SJWs have a negative connotation attached to them, making fun of them while calling for true social justice ourselves seems short sighted. Do some feminists only view success if women are placed higher than men? Yes. I think this group should call them out when that's their agenda. But if men's rights doesn't want to be lumped in by the middle with alt-right and incels then we should avoid lumping other people too. This group has enough facts and evidence to have a case in the issues we care about that mocking other groups is unnecessary. I understand some men are upset but this subreddit could be a person's first experience with men's rights and I think keeping it more focused on the inequalities in the world and not juvenile attacks on the people we disagree with is the only way we might see real, beneficial results in the issues that actually mean something to us and could benefit men everywhere in the long term.

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Thanks for your comment. I'd like to add... No-one can fully integrate. You are only part of the host culture when you share everything : blood, history, language, education, experience, culture, religion, behaviours, traditions, etc. For a European to another European country, it is already extremely difficult. I know some Polish who are in France for 30 years, and still not "integrated". I know some English living in Germany for 20 years and not integrated. I know some Moroccans French living in France for 50 years and not integrated. I know Italians in Holland that are there for 100 years, and still not integrated. Integration is a total scam, honestly. Only the 4th generation is totally considered as local, and that with all the conditions above, including the skin colour and the religion.

Mass immigration indeed is the real issue. Mass immigration, even white, increases housing prices, decreases local salaries, creates gender imbalance, creates insecurity, breaks harmony, adds complexity and stress, increase the social burden and the debt, foster delocalisation, prevents local people from making families, put locals out of jobs, etc. At this stage, the one who doesn't understand the impact of immigration on a country has never seriously thought about it.

Immigration is THE issue we should talk about.

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[–]tmone 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

"real feminism"

Karen Straughn-

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

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Title	The Cycle Of Feminism/SJW Inclusivity
Author	TerriChris
Upvotes	2219
Comments	288
Date	February 19, 2018 10:45 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7yluab/the_cycle_of_feminismsjw_inclusivity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-cycle-of-feminismsjw-inclusivity.1179407 https://theredarchive.com/post/1179407

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