I Do Believe She Has A Point.

Ogg66 · 2018-08-24T09:24:44+00:00

Seems reasonable to me to the extent that what they are both saying should be balanced with the evidence at hand. However the push is towards not accepting men's word at all and vilifying anyone who asks for evidence as though women never lie.

TheStumblingWolf · 2018-08-24T10:27:11+00:00

Both statements are bad. Being <whatever gender> is not a credential. That's why you have to back up your claims in court...or used to anyway. Let the evidence speak because eye witness accounts are unreliable.

Arthas_Greyjoy · 2018-08-24T10:06:44+00:00

In a world where men and women are to be believed for the things they say, then if a woman accuses a man of something and the man denies it, who then is to be believed? I say we let this believing game go away and focus on evidence.

89peters · 2018-08-24T10:01:45+00:00

It's a contradiction. Never should be believed until evidence is presented.

TehBenju · 2018-08-24T14:24:50+00:00

so, I saw a post on reddit a long time ago about this, and someone mentioned the best way to handle it.

We should simultaneously believe both.

Give the victim the support they need, take the rape kit, treat it seriously, get them a therapist if they need it, 100% full support. Every moment someone is with them they need to support and believe them.

Believe the accused innocent until proven guilty in court. Keep the accusations nameless in public until the trial has proven them guilty, no public shaming, no taking away their job. If they work in an area where their continued employment could causes risks to others, go the police route with paid administrative leave or some form of assignment where they could not commit further violence until the facts are found. Don't ruin their life based on accusations alone.

once the court case is done, that's who gets to pick who to believe. Until then we should believe both

Zylo_001 · 2018-08-24T12:03:46+00:00

Over believed/not believed, people should be taken seriously when making these kinds of claims. Then they should seriously look for evidence of the claim. 1Then the evidence should be able to speak for itself. When you automatically believe one party over another, you leave the door open for abuse.

CountVonVague · 2018-08-24T12:21:17+00:00

claimants should be considered, not disregarded

fixed

Blutarg · 2018-08-24T14:33:13+00:00

But no one "should be" believed. If you can back up your story, then you might earn the right to be believed. Otherwise, you are owed nothing.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2018-08-24T13:27:32+00:00

Both should be believed to the extent that if an accusation is made it's taken seriously and evidence is sought out.

Not that they should immediately be assumed correct.

PeonSupreme · 2018-08-24T15:18:08+00:00

I would feel better about that meme if it read as follows:

“I don’t have a problem with feminists creating an environment where women are always given the benefit of the doubt.

I have a problem with feminists creating an environment where men are never given the benefit of the doubt.”

If that’s what she meant to say, then I’m fine with it.

TheOnlyKarsh · 2018-08-24T13:59:48+00:00

I have an issue with any society that does not demand support for assertions and accepts anything uttered simply because it's been stated.

Karsh

Evildl17 · 2018-08-24T13:03:29+00:00

I think some people around here are getting pissy at this over semantics. The point is equality. It has nothing to do with false accusations and everything to do with erasure of male victims. It's calling out the double standard, not the standard of proof. It's a sign that men's issues are starting to get recognized in the public eye. Let's not piss all over a good thing because a tweet failed to capture the complete nuance of sexual assault accusations in 240 characters.

BeneficialBlock · 2018-08-24T08:56:38+00:00

Image Text
I don't have a problem with Feminists creating an environment where "Women SHOULD BE believed"
I have a problem with Feminists creating an environment where "Men SHOULD NOT BE believed

chambertlo · 2018-08-24T11:36:51+00:00

No. Women lie, and they lie often. No person should be believed without substancial proof. Stop destroying lives just because you can.

bklee83 · 2018-08-24T13:50:45+00:00

That still flys in the face of innocent until proven guilty.

bunia1409 · 2018-08-24T13:50:50+00:00

So Every Woman is believable no matter what just Because they are women? Or am I not understanding this right? Coz that's fucking crazy.

pomegranate2012 · 2018-08-24T16:37:50+00:00

Thankfully, feminists don't DO anything.

I mean, they create an environment on Tumblr, and they create an environment on the Guardian comments section, but that's about it.

Feminists are the lowest level of society. No real job, no real relationships, on multiple government benefits just to make ends meet. Unless you accidentally walk into a gender studies lecture, or post a comment on Reddit saying that men should have equal legal rights you'll never have to deal with a 'feminist environment'.

Of course, rape and domestic violence are legal issues where men are at a huge disadvantage compared with women. But, I don't think that's to do with feminism per se. That's just because society views women as the weaker sex, so when it comes to a larger man accused of a physical crime against a smaller woman, juries will tend to side with the woman.

Feminists view women as the weaker sex to such a degree that they are calling for even GREATER special treatment for women, to the point that women would be treated as no better than mentally retarded children. Thankfully, I don't hate women as much a feminists, and I think the normal, 'average' person does not either so we shouldn't get too swayed by crazies on the internet.

50PercentLies · 2018-08-24T19:25:42+00:00

Mpf. I do the opposite. I treat every new person with oppressive skepticism.

Obliterous · 2018-08-24T19:54:11+00:00

Who is this logical female?

SandorYarpClegane · 2018-08-24T13:28:40+00:00

Reeeeee!!!!

morerokk · 2018-08-24T16:34:35+00:00

Victims should be believed, in terms of getting them help and support. When it comes to accusations however, everyone should be innocent until proven guilty.

Teal_Kitten · 2018-08-24T17:42:26+00:00

nah i like to be sceptical regardless of gender

WEBENGi · 2018-08-24T19:52:15+00:00

Get rid of feminism and you are half way there

McGauth925 · 2018-08-24T20:56:12+00:00

"He RAPED me!"

"No, I didn't!"

So, how do you believe the woman while not disbelieving the man?

I get it that she might think she was too drunk...although I don't think it's rape if both partners are actively participating...while he may say he was just as drunk. But, if the only conclusion is that one of them is lying, how does one believe the woman while refraining from disbelieving the man. Guess I'm simple.

Cearball · 2018-08-24T23:26:32+00:00

Nothing should be believed or disbelieved really if we are talking about the authorities.

It should be investigated & judgements made from the evidence.

ether_reddit · 2018-08-25T01:15:56+00:00

If the (alleged) victim is my friend, I will listen, sympathize and believe.

If the (alleged) accused is my friend, I will listen, sympathize and believe.

If I am a politician, judge or any public figure whatsoever, I will take a dispassionate neutral position because I simply don't know what the facts are.

DaaGarebear · 2018-08-25T02:27:44+00:00

Vanriel · 2018-08-25T09:28:42+00:00

I remember discussing a rape accusation with a colleague of mine a few years back. She said that the accuser should be believed 100% straight from the moment the accusation is made. I disagreed and said that whilst the accusation should of course be investigated, the investigators should not go into it with a closed mind as it is unfair to the individual who has been accused as they are already deeming them guilty.

She didn't speak to me for a month (childish i know) even after it was found that the accusation was false.

omegaphallic · 2018-08-25T14:39:39+00:00

They are one and effectively the same thing. Instead I suggest believing in facts, evidence, due process, and treating people as individuals, not avatars of a race or gender.

TheMythof_Feminism · 2018-08-25T17:49:29+00:00

No, she does not have a point. "Listen and believe" is absolute retardation to the extreme with zero merit.

The only thing that should be believed is EVIDENCE, not stories.

LedZeppelin1602 · 2018-08-25T20:02:37+00:00

Rather than "listen and believe" the approach should be "listen, support and investigate"

xXx_bayMAX_950_xXx · 2018-08-24T10:31:19+00:00

i think, in most places in the world women are already given environment where they can be believed

edit: unless they are lying

Guilvareux · 2018-08-24T14:08:10+00:00

Well then who should be believed when both contradict each other?

chester444 · 2018-08-24T22:02:29+00:00

She doesn’t have any problems with feminists at all. She’s a woman. She is one. This is just classic virtue signaling by a bitchy woman who is desperate.

Title	I Do Believe She Has A Point.
Author	Imnotmrabut
Upvotes	3280
Comments	120
Date	August 24, 2018 8:53 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/99vsiw/i_do_believe_she_has_a_point/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-do-believe-she-has-a-point.1185574 https://theredarchive.com/post/1185574

Comments