Just out of curiosity, how much of modern dating's problems also stem from a lack of inherent hardship in modern society? All perspectives welcome

WilliamWyattD · 2023-12-27T10:22:12+00:00

Since women need more prosperity to 'have it all', a more difficult life does tend to make men, in their more natural roles, more useful to women. This utility can also actually increase male desirability on a sexual level. However, the limits of this effect are highly debated.

So no easy answers to the OP's question. A lot depends on how highly one prioritizes maximizing erotic thrills and sensations. If one does, then maybe a harder life just forces people (mane and women, but more so women) to sacrifice the erotic for other considerations. There's no real consensus on the extent to which women in the past enjoyed sex with their husbands.

waffleznstuff30 · 2023-12-27T13:19:49+00:00

I don't think it's a lack of hardship. I think it's because we came of age (millennial) in like 2 major economic crashes. We were told from young age college then career then marriage so we were financially stable enough to do those things. So we never had that security we are more in debt can't afford a house and the lifestyle our parents could before us.

So a lot of us are on survival mode and less about marriage a future. And we are more about just making it through the week. Dating is harder because we have less goals in mind. We are all emotionally disconnected and not where we want to be in life. Hence flings and hook ups being more normalized because when someone doesn't feel like they are where they need to be milestone wise the less they like the idea of a relationship let alone marriage.

63daddy · 2023-12-27T11:15:56+00:00

I think what many miss is that society has always been hypergamous, but hypergamous desires are more difficult to obtain these days.

We focus on females over males in education, we advantage women owned businesses, advantage females over males in job hiring. Inflation, wages, housing costs and expectations make it harder for a husband’s salary to support a family. These and other factors make it harder for women to date up, marry up and be supported (even in part) by a husband.

Of course men coming onto women risk being accused of harassment. At the same time, people are buried in their phones making them less approachable. Dating sites are clearly going downhill.

Frustrated, many women and men point their finger at each other, but as another poster said, neither women or men are purposely making dating harder. What’s changed is the dating environment.

Electronic_West_1831 · 2023-12-27T10:54:22+00:00

Is there a “lack of inherent hardship in modern society”? Where I live, in the world’s six largest economy, 29% of children are growing up in “relative” poverty and 18% of households are classed as living in “absolute” poverty - life for the upper-middle classes may be cushy, but to claim hardship doesn’t exist is rather solipsistic

wtknight · 2023-12-27T13:56:12+00:00

No, I think people are just being excessively choosy, both women and even men, once the latter get past the sex stage and into the relationship stage. Having a high standard of living, like one has in the west, means that one can afford to be choosy about things, including relationship partners.

Furthermore, the desirability of casual sex to men makes it so many men would rather try to have as much of it as they can before they have to settle down with one woman. Men who aren't attractive enough for regular casual sex will instead have short-term relationships. Women, on the other hand, realize that going without a long-term partner for significant periods of time will help them advance their careers, so they also have an incentive to be choosy in relationships.

Women don't need men. Men with sexual options, the men whom women desire, don't need one woman. All in all, it makes western dating and relationships very difficult to navigate.

Purple_Cruncher_123 · 2023-12-27T10:37:11+00:00

Assuming 'modern dating' implies mostly westernized conditions where your basic needs are met and even some of the more advanced ones are subsidized. There's less inherent physical hardships, or basic survival needs hardship, but that doesn't mean there aren't other hardships.

Economy sucks for the lower class. Yeah they can get food stamps and handouts so they don't starve to death, but living paycheck-to-paycheck still sucks. Americans at least are like one health issue away from medical bankruptcy. Your average person is priced out of a home in large parts of the country where there's more people than wildlife. Having kids is expensive and there's fewer networks to rely upon for assistance. And so on.

And then you have other needs unmet like social isolation, which is fracturing us as third places slowly die. Sure, the more social among us will create our own little microcommunities, but those who lack social skills will suffer. This would naturally carry over to dating. And women and men no longer need to be entwined in relationships to survive. So fewer bad relationships self-maintain on momentum. Fewer relationships start at all.

I think talks of society becoming decadent and crumbling under its own lechery/debauchery is missing that casual sex has gone down, drugs and alcohol use has plateaued and gone down, etc. People are more public about these things, but really the only signals that have gone up are things like mental health struggles of inadequacy, depression, loneliness, etc. We're having less fun overall even if our physical needs are minimally secure.

I would point perhaps to a lacking in purpose in a lot of people because grinding themselves for dollars isn't in most people's interest. A return to something more traditional might give a simplified purpose to many, but that promise is not sufficiently appealing to the rest.

Quiet_Firefighter_65 · 2023-12-27T12:33:34+00:00

It's the opposite. The alienation and atomisation in late stage capitalist economy makes things too difficult, and human relationships are one of the things that suffer due to it. How are people supposed to connect with others when they spend most of their time working?

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2023-12-27T12:11:08+00:00

I don't think it's lack of hardship per se. There is enough hardship in the world, even in well developed Western societies.

What's really lacking imho is purpose and initiation. In some cultures, there is a ceremony to celebrate coming of age for girls. Like the quincenera in Latin America. It's a symbolic transition from girlhood to womanhood.

Unfortunately; the rite of passage ceremonies for boys are all but non-existent in today's culture. Boys are never given a set of instructions on how to become men, how to embrace a purpose and develop a fearless, take charge attitude. Some get lucky by having a good male influence or developing those qualities through sports. No wonder jocks in high school always got the best girls. And those guys were never the smartest: they just took charge.

MikeArrow · 2023-12-27T10:27:35+00:00

I think that's ridiculous, personally. No one chooses to make things hard for themselves. Relationships are just inherently hard work. If they were easy, everyone would be in them. But they're not. They require so much luck, just the right timing, the right chemistry, the right conditions to grow from the initial seeds of attraction. That's what's hard, just the sheer improbability of all of that coming together perfectly.

CraftyCooler · 2023-12-27T11:10:51+00:00

I think the important reason might be that expected 'profit' from being in relationship is small or is even a net loss for large group of women so they simply give up on dating market. There is a group of women who assume that only partner they can get will be having low income, lower education, will not be willing to share household work. Women 'grown' everywhere in the west while men are left behind. Some argue that women are too demanding regarding the appearance, but tbh i didn't noticed that, most girls i know do not have Chad boyfriends/husbands(only those who look like supermodels).

MidoriEgg · 2023-12-27T13:56:25+00:00

It’s a weird one. Modern society is so individualistic with so many conveniences we don’t physically need a partner the way we used to.

But on the other hand, in a lot of western places, people (men and women) have to work crazy hours just to live and make rent, which is a hardship that leaves very little time and energy left for romance and dating.

Demasii · 2023-12-27T15:04:50+00:00

I have a theory and need to look up to see if there's a name for it.

I believe that many are prone to feeling hardship even when things are easier today relative to the past. When you have a group of perpetually unsatisfied humans, they will try to invent things to alleviate hard work or advocate social change.

I think this is biological to create a drive to improve society for the next generation to survive.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-12-27T10:40:47+00:00

Half agree since were a lot more focused now on the individual wants rather than society, but since we’re over populated this is not a bad thing, we should have been doing more of that to begin with

I will say (and I’ll probably get downvoted) I do think woman are being more selfish and again this is not a bad thing. When I see old films or hear old songs that encourage woman to “stand by their man no matter what” put up with being cheated on or slapped, I’m glad modern woman aren’t putting up with it, they pay attention to red flags and nowadays too people can date for years without commitment,

People say it’s a bad thing woman are acting more like men, it’s only bad for those men cause a woman won’t put up with men like him anymore. It’s just natural selection

mybotisonfire · 2023-12-27T19:35:08+00:00

A lot.

Men before: We need a man around to life heavy things, shoot wild animals, fix the roof when it's snowing, do super-hard labor in the fields, and take care of us after child birth and when kids are teeny tiny.

Men now: Anything he does can be done by other men with a phone call. His only purpose is to improve the comfort and material status of her situation, aka "make her life better in pretty much all quantifiable metrics".

Kind of a tall order, being the table as it were.

The difference is, she needed him before so average men who were useful were still invited to the party. Men's evolution to be useful has now blown up. There are lots of useful men who women have no use for. And so, very quickly, the number of useful men declines rapidly.

Those who think this radical and fast change is a good thing might be in for a surprise. A society where 80% of men simply don't give a fuck and use their usefulness minimally to satiate base urges and things like beer, video games and busting the occasional nut is not good for society.

jay10033 · 2023-12-27T19:45:16+00:00

I can see this. When 85% of the things in your life are going right, you overemphasize the 15% that's not perfect. Folks in the western world have the highest standard of living in history, with the longest life expectancy ever, but point to folks who may be doing better than as proof that they aren't doing well. For goodness sake, we have women all over the internet screaming 100k is not a lot of money, regardless where they live - being in the top 10% of global income distribution is not sufficient.

Dating suffers from the same issues. In a country where the average person is doing pretty well, they are brainwashed into thinking they aren't doing well at all, especially by women, because they are compared to others.

macone235 · 2023-12-27T20:48:10+00:00

I don't agree with that at all. What makes dating hard now is that women are just more status-driven than ever before, and that comes with consequences. Men don't become high-status by not being toxic, and so these relationships are just more likely to be toxic than a relationship with a more passive man. I don't think most women necessarily like the toxicity all of the time though. It's just a trade-off that they deal with, because women don't like boring, peaceful men that don't provide value to them. That has nothing to do with there being an "empty void in their lives from a lack of hardship" though.

Uglypostwall · 2023-12-27T13:27:05+00:00

> what purpose do relationships serve me in this day and age of rugged individualism and social permissiveness

Only old women should ask this because dating is for men and younger women.

Modern dating is getting messed up becasue of social media and inflation

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-12-27T11:05:18+00:00

It's the sole reason, the feminism today that is basically the core reason for the destruction of interpersonal relationships only exist during very comfy times.

The moment any hardships appears any idea of equality is snapped out existence.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2023-12-27T17:20:55+00:00

Modern datings main issue is birth control and the women want the man to be interested but not too interested... And the whole whole she's testing you because heaven forbid you fale one and lower your value to her...

wheartv · 2023-12-27T18:40:39+00:00

Life is easy enough that women no longer need men and use the gov’t as a surrogate as needed for provisions

It’s of course changed things

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Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-12-27T14:16:30+00:00

I’m gonna say yes: but from a different angle.

Is it easy to get to look at almost unlimited thirst traps just using social media? Yup.

Is it easy to get instant gratification thru unlimited porn online? Yup

Is it easy to escape into an unlimited supply of entertainment thru streaming platforms for anime/movies/t shows? All of which are the things the user can choose? Yup.

Is it easy to get sucked into hundreds or thousands of hours of video gaming thru really fun and entertaining games now? Yup

Is processed food as fast food readily available and easy to get, sometimes faster and cheaper than healthier options? Yup.

Have we created plenty of alternatives for people to get sucked into being alone and online? Absolutely.

Is that abundance making some less social and even more “why would i try to do things when I can get my instant gratification right here?!” Yup.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-27T15:35:51+00:00

I half agree with this, I don’t think there is an inherent need for hardship per say, but I think there is something to be said about hyper-individualism, a ‘me first’ mentality (which is really ironic that RPers bring this up because that’s literally the framework most redpill advice works under) and a lack of cooperation in modern life.

Now, I don’t want to blame a lack of hardship for it because while survival in itself has gotten very easy, we’re now facing new challenges - ie. how do we compliment each other in a world where our base survival needs are met? our lizard brains lean towards “more for me!” but this doesn’t make anyone happy (couple this with a looming economic crisis, things straight up don’t add up, though i feel like a possible explanation is a constant need for escapism) - as we’ve all seen, our social, spiritual and psychological needs are all being neglected, and it really doesn’t help that modern culture generally trends to look down on these. I think getting in touch with that side of ourselves is paramount to solving this issue and will define each gender’s contribution to the other moving forward.

There will always be some kind of hardship, though the difficulty is once that need is met, figuring out what the next challenge is, or, even, figuring out if by solving one problem we’ve leaned too hard on one end and neglected other aspects of our lives.

CalligrapherSimple39 · 2023-12-27T15:58:36+00:00

You have to define what these problems are with modern dating before anyone can answer.

Vapelord420XXXD · 2023-12-27T16:59:50+00:00

I think part of the issue is that there are so many easily available entertainment options at home. This has created a high baseline of "entertainment" which puts more pressure on dates to be fun and enjoyable. Compare this to the 70's where the TV literally stopped broadcasting at night so unless you wanted to sit inside your home reading a book you figured fuck it, might as well go out and socialize.

No-Refrigerator3350 · 2023-12-27T17:01:26+00:00

From a woman's perspective, not needing men to pay the bills anymore has really lessened the dating pool. It's now based on compatibility which is much harder to find vs. a warm able body.

Safinated · 2023-12-27T20:10:25+00:00

Probably most. And I prefer lack of suffering and hardship, so boo hoo

KratosGodOfLove · 2023-12-27T23:31:14+00:00

Yes I agree with you.

In modern times, the different reasons I hear of disqualifying a potential partner is so ridiculous sometimes. Then I watch the news and I see couples surviving in war or through tough times. They are really going through a rough time but they stick together and help each other out - I find that to be quite lovely.

Wing_Puzzleheaded · 2023-12-28T00:35:57+00:00

I wonder this. It seems like men and women just dont really need each other anymore.

giveuporfindaway · 2023-12-28T03:40:32+00:00

When you don't need to fear freezing in the coming winter you pick the beach boy who's best at playing volleyball.

Title	Just out of curiosity, how much of modern dating's problems also stem from a lack of inherent hardship in modern society? All perspectives welcome
Author	Concerntroll666
Upvotes	9
Comments	53
Date	December 27, 2023 10:10 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18rxg95/just_out_of_curiosity_how_much_of_modern_datings/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/just-out-of-curiosity-how-much-of-modern-datings.1241621 https://theredarchive.com/post/1241621

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