Girls’re just as lonely and frustrated as we are. They want to meet a guy. But not just a guy, a great guy....

[–]livinglogic 581 points582 points583 points 13 years ago* (110 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck is going on in this subreddit?

I come in here and I see a bunch of extremely negative and pessimistic attitudes popping up. Typical comments that shouldn't even be acknowledged like 'Rule#1 be attractive' and 'Oh woe is me why can't I be the one they want?'

Have we not learned anything here?

I think that anyone who subscribes to this subreddit has to immediately shed any sense of self-pity that they might have about themselves. If you can't see that you're the problem in this game, that it's not because you're ugly or because women have a certain view of the kind of man they want, then you might as well give up on finding anyone of value right now.

The whole 'meeting women' thing is predicated upon self-value and confidence. You have to combine natural instincts of evolutionary reproductive sciences with modern day society. In other words, you have to be the best version of you that you can be. Remaining just as you are: lazy, uninteresting, out of shape, unkempt, sarcastic, and pessimistic... you'll have to forgive women for skipping you over. You're just not showing good fathering skills, and you're not taking pride in who you are as a person. Would you date a woman who was exactly those things? Maybe you would, but if not, why should you expect women to have lowered standards when choosing you?

What the OP posted up there is true. Women want you to be a good guy. They don't want you to be abnormally attractive, or be so confident that your ego alters a rooms barometric pressure when you enter and leave it. They want you to be the best version of you that you can be, to treat them with respect and demand respect in return. They want you to be firm and yet compromising, and they want you to be attractive as an overall prospect for marriage and mating, not attractive in the magazine cover sense.

Does being handsome and tall help? Fucking hell yes. Is it all that matters? Don't be stupid and fall into that trap.

Stop bitching, stop fucking moaning. Read a book, get educated, go running and lift some weights. Travel a bit, converse with strangers (men and women), and learn how to make a joke and walk away from bad situations. Trust your instincts by being bold and learning from your mistakes. Then, when you're confident with your self and identity, when you've become a man, women will come to you. Until then, blaming the opposite sex for your own personal misgivings is only going to further send you spiraling downward into the trap of self-pity and bitterness.

ed. Thanks for the gold, but let's try and not lose sight about what makes this subreddit a great place. We're a community of men (and yes, women) who can only benefit from learning how to become the best version of ourselves we can. Getting laid, picking up, getting numbers, yeah that's a part of it, but you'll never get to that point until you pick yourselves up, brush off the dust, and look to improving your life for our your own sake.

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[–]InternetFree 50 points51 points52 points 13 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

As a tall and at the very least not fat or ugly person: Yes. It absolutely isn't everything.
(Except you are in South East Asia... where sometimes you will literally get marriage proposals for being tall and blonde.)

Before I finally learned to stop giving a shit about honesty and reason and what people think of me, and to talk to people in a way that makes them want me: I had absolutely nothing.

As a man you won't ever get dates just for being physically attractive. Only if you are SO RIDICULOUSLY ATTRACTIVE that that asset alone becomes so interesting. And even then it usually won't entertain your partner for very long. A man has to work. It's a learned skill to pick up girls and being more physically attractive than average is a really rather minor asset.

As a teenager I once heard "You are super nice and definitely the hottest guy I ever dated... but I don't think this is going anywhere." after I asked some more questions I was told "To be honest you are just... boring."
That stumped me. It hurt. I couldn't say anything anymore, I got my answer. I just left at that point.

That's when I realized for the first time that the most important aspect of any relationship is to be a leader and to be interesting. In essence: In your mind you should treat the people you interact with as lazy idiots without their own motivations in life. People want other people to take them on adventures.

People want to experience awesome stuff without having to do any of the work themselves...
Maybe at some point in your life you realized you were having this mindset yourself: "Oooh, I'm not dumb and totally willing to do such amazing stuff for society and the world... if only someone would come to my house, pick me up, and tell me I should do this project! And I would totally go skydiving, too, and bungie jumping, and climb a mountain, why does nobody want to do this with me?"

You need to become a person that gets them that kind of experience. At least that's the feeling you have to give them when they are around you. Never ask people "what do you want to do?" just tell them "let's do this!"

People don't care very much about people who aren't able to lead them.

[–]jdepps113 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

Yes, nobody likes a shy and modest man that is easily satisfied with his basic needs and doesn't actually enjoy dominance while truly caring about others.

I enjoy playing computer games, I don't care about fashion or my physical appearance, I don't actually enjoy going out and dancing, I don't actually enjoy being in a room with many people, I don't actually enjoy being extroverted. I really enjoy D&D, manga, anime, books, games, and all that shit. I don't give a shit about sports. I don't like to cook and would rather order Chinese every day. I don't like to fight. I don't even like to talk very much. I don't like to lead at all. I don't like being confident and I naturally question everything I do and think that's a good thing. Actually, I think people who actually are confident about their actions and opinions are idiots.
I actually like the people I'm with and don't want to lose them and do get upset and jealous when they interact with other men and would love to tell them, so I am naturally clingy.
I also don't give a shit about most of the nonsense hot women usually are interested in. I don't find things funny or appealing that naturally outgoing and fit people find funny or appealing.

In short: I'm a huge nerd and would rather sit at home all day, reading a book in front of a logfire while petting a fluffy cat.
For activities with friends I would choose to play PC games for days on end.

But guess what: I like to have sex with hot women. And hot women usually don't like any of the things I like. And girls who do like what I like in most cases aren't hot.

And to have sex with hot women I have to lie about more or less everything I actually am:
I do sports to stay fit and pretend to enjoy it and care, I eat healthy and pretend to enjoy it and care, I cook a lot and pretend to enjoy it and care, I learn about stuff I don't give the slightest shit about, I pretend to be confident, I pretend not to care that much about other people, I don't talk about science, books, manga, and games despite those topics being so much more interesting than everything else, I do stand up for myself rather than running away and calling the cops (which I think is the better alternative to aggression), I talk all the time and have practiced smalltalk and am better at it than people who actually do like to talk. I won't interject and contradict people all the time, I won't try and debate people all the time when it comes to politics and won't annoy them with endless monologues nor will I call them out when they say something stupid (just look at my comment history here on reddit... that kind of interaction is what I find entertaining and worthwhile).

Why do I do all that? Because that gets me hot women and significantly more dates.

[–]Darwinning 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Then what happens when you get along great with a woman, but the man she likes isn't you?

I'd much rather develop and explore my own interests, then find a woman who I like and who likes me. Not a fake me that I project in order to seem more attractive. I play videogames, sure. I also like tons of other things and am constantly discovering more. It isn't about lying; putting forth a facade in order to fuck some hot chick. It's about being you, but the best you that you can be. I don't mean that you should be some fake dude in order to seem cooler; I mean you should focus on being a genuine, like-able person for your own attributes.

The direction you're on now just ends in hollow connections and the realization that every emotional connection you have isn't emotional, just physical. Trust me.

[–]kazagistar 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Then what happens when you get along great with a woman, but the man she likes isn't you?

I'm very good at lying. Nearly as good as I am with being brutally honest.

I'd much rather develop and explore my own interests, then find a woman who I like and who likes me.

Good luck with that.

Never in my life have I seen a physically attractive women with my interests and a character I like.

It's about being you, but the best you that you can be.

But if it was up to me I would already be satisfied.

My main motivation is to have sex with hot women. If I didn't have that goal I wouldn't give much of a fuck about myself and simply do what I enjoy... which is video games, movies, and books. I wouldn't need more than a bed, a fridge, a toilet, a shower, and a PC to be happy.

I don't mean that you should be some fake dude in order to seem cooler; I mean you should focus on being a genuine, like-able person for your own attributes.

But I don't give a shit about that. I'm a nerd and a slob and I would be happy and satisfied. The only thing that wouldn't be satisfied in that case would be my sex life.

The direction you're on now just ends in hollow connections and the realization that every emotional connection you have isn't emotional, just physical. Trust me.

Well, yes. At least with the women I want to have sex with.

I have a lot of male friends that share my actual interest and emotions. However: Literally all of them aren't very successful with women. ;)
I also have several lady-friends I share my interests with and have nice conversations with them. They also are all very unattractive, though.

[–]BiblicalMC 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]InternetFree -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you're being dishonest then you won't actually get what you want.

But I do get what I want: Hot girls and sex. ;)

but if you don't ever let anyone see the real you then you're being dishonest with yourself.

How so? I'm very honest with myself, I just don't share it with others because it would make me much less appealing to them.

And if you can't even be honest with yourself then you don't even have any self-respect.

My self-respect isn't based on other people's approval. I don't need people to acknowledge what I love. For me it's enough to know what I love.

How can you be expected to have respect for others?

Haha, well, I don't have respect for most of the people I interact with. I'm of the opinion that most people on this planet are stupid and that intelligent people are very rare. Only 10-20% of people in developed nations are college educated. And even most of those are pretty stupid. And treating people like idiots usually will make them love you.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that the only type of person that I will reject and never like are those who have no self-respect.

Well, I don't exactly agree with your definition of self-respect. Why does me not sharing my actual interests and natural behaviours with others show a lack of self-respect? I simply acknowledge that most other people don't share my interests and will get on their level instead because waiting for people to try and get into my interests usually is a waste of time. Believe me... when I was a teenager I tried and tried and tried.

People should just be content with their health and happiness, and your attitude is not healthy.

Well, it's the attitude that gets shit done and gets me what I want. What do you believe is the alternative?

Do you have a wonderland filled with hot nerd chicks that like shy beta-guys that sit in front of a computer all day and have no interest in sports except for having sex with them nor like to go out with them but would rather read a book?

[–]martong93 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Don't get me wrong, I love being aggressive and asserting myself, and I definitely don't like suffering fools, but,

Haha, well, I don't have respect for most of the people I interact with. I'm of the opinion that most people on this planet are stupid and that intelligent people are very rare. Only 10-20% of people in developed nations are college educated. And even most of those are pretty stupid. And treating people like idiots usually will make them love you.

is not a healthy attitude. You shouldn't give a shit about other people and their competence. It should be a non-factor for you. I can be a dick to people, but I always have some base respect for every individual. Why? Because, unlike you, I'm not content with being just better than other people, I want to be a great man. I don't like dealing with petty shit, and look down on everyone is 110% petty shit.

Also you're not getting what you want if what you want is manga AND being with hot women. You're only getting some of what you want. You're settling for less.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He could always start the relationship on those false pretenses and then slowly come clean until he's honest about everything and then boom, he got what he wanted. I agree with InternetFree in that you don't have to be completely upright right away with every human you meet. You have no obligation to disclose everything about you until you expect her to do the same thing, and that's the relationship, I think.

I definitely do this same thing and I consider myself very honest in my relationships. I won't tell a classy looking girl I just met that I like to sometimes go on drug crazed camping trips, but if I really like a girl, I'll tell her eventually.

You don't have to disclose your whole soul right away, but if you really like a girl and the girl likes you, you should definitely give her the chance to accept you as you are.

[–]InternetFree -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

is not a healthy attitude.

Well, I understand that. But the pleasure of having sex with hot women overrules the health issues.
I also think the unhealthiness is mostly related to my mental condition. Physically I think I'm much more healthy than I would be if I would live my life like I wanted it to live, but sometimes I'm very sad that I can't get what I really want, but there need to be compromises, huh?

So, I can choose between feeling lonely from time to time... or not having sex with hot women. And I choose the hot women because the loneliness only strikes very seldomly as I have meaningful relationships with other people... just not with my sexual partners.

You shouldn't give a shit about other people and their competence. It should be a non-factor for you.

Uhm... that's exactly what I said. You were trying to contradict exactly that.

Why? Because, unlike you, I'm not content with being just better than other people, I want to be a great man.

Well, I don't. I can very much say I don't care about being "great". I don't need other people to validate my interests. I don't care about being "great" because that's something depending on other people's perception of me.

What I personally would consider great is being a happy and content individual living his life the way he would enjoy it the most.
For me that would involve being a lazy slob and a nerd, while fucking hot women. Unfortunately that doesn't exactly work out. So, what do you suggest me to do?

You don't seem to understand this: I really do enjoy being a lazy slob and a nerd. It satisfies me. It makes me happy and I feel no regret for "wasting my life" or whatever. I really don't like working out and eating healthy, I would rather die early. I really don't like going out and going away from my PC except for sex with hot women.

Also you're not getting what you want if what you want is manga AND being with hot women.

Well, point me to a hot woman with my interests that would accept me for who I really am and I will pour my heart out. ;)
I mean, seriously, I would sell all my stuff and move anywhere on this planet in a heartbeat.

You're only getting some of what you want. You're settling for less.

I don't think I would have any problem being happy with a hot woman that likes what I like. Guess what: I simply haven't found any yet. And I have been to a lot of places and talked to a lot of women.

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Hey again. Remember me? I apologize when I sounded like an asshole in the past.

Despite your beliefs, recognize that your mind can't fully capture the objectivity of this Universe. Your mind will automatically filter your thoughts, memories, sensory input, etc. through a lens. That lens is governed by your overall belief system.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your mind will spin your thoughts so that they become evidence for whatever beliefs you currently hold, whether or not your beliefs are valid. Hell, that evidence may not even be real evidence.

In other words, your mind is lying to you.

Think of your beliefs as like, a mental habit. It's not really something you believe, per se. It's more like, a random thought that habitually enters your mind simply because it's a behavior that you've been doing for so long. And, over time, you start to believe this belief because it keeps entering your head, and your mind keeps searching for evidence (that may or may not exist) to support that belief.

Try to cut that habit out. The next time that belief enters your mind, ignore it, spin it into a positive thought, whatever. Develop the habit of thinking positive thoughts.

I remember you from a while back. You lost weight, got fit, and you're fucking eager to make something out of yourself. You're not an asshole. You have ambition. You're still trying, despite your hardships.

That takes BALLS. And you have huge balls. Maybe you're not good at projecting it, but you really seem like a quality guy.

Relax a bit, take a step back, and recognize that you're putting yourself down for no reason. You're being way too hard on yourself. Seems like the only thing holding you back is that tiny voice in your head that's being an asshole to you by whispering bullshit limiting beliefs. Stop giving that voice so much weight. Its statements are wrong.

That inner voice is like, your asshole childhood friend who keeps trying to one-up you. At first he was cool, but he's been a gigantic dick the past few years. Now, you hang out with him only because you guys knew each other for so long. But one day, you thought, "wow, my friend is an asshole to me, why should I keep hanging out with him?"

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[–]livinglogic 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

That's all awesome stuff, man. You sound like a very well-rounded person, and yet I still can understand why you might blame your facial structure on your seeming inability to pick up. Keep in mind, good looking people have trouble picking up too, though, just read through this thread and you'll see several examples. Maybe you're missing something, maybe it's not your looks, maybe it's because you project your own lack of confidence in your looks onto others, or maybe you care too much about what other people (girls) think about you. I've noticed that the less good looking of people can still manage to pick up in groups if only because they are the most fun, the ones who joke around, who make girls (and guys) laugh the most. They're the ones who live with reckless abandon, who don't quietly look to the ground and project their lack of confidence outward.

If you believe you're ugly, others will believe it too. If you don't give two fucks about, if you're happy and enjoy going out with friends for the fun and joy that it brings, then that's the attitude that will be projected.

You sound like a great guy, you need to work on your self confidence, and that needs to start with changing how you see yourself when you look in the mirror. You do that by saying 'fuck you, me. I'm not going to let me make me self-conscious when out in public with friends.' You just focus on having fun, on being that person that people like, and talk with girls like you're not trying to pick them up, but because you're interested in them as people. Don't put pressure on social situations, just enjoy your life, and good things will happen.

edit Also, smile a lot. Not a bullshit fake smile, but a real smile, a happy smile that says 'I'm fucking thrilled to be speaking with you, fellow human being.' That'll help.

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Agreed. You're doing it right, you're working hard, and you're maximizing on your own life and potential. You are by no means at fault for expecting the same out of any potential partner.

I'm 29 years old, I have a master's degree that I worked hard to get, I've lived in 5 different countries and speak 3 languages, I work out 5 days a week, I love to read and write, and I find the time to be a lazy sonofabitch that goes on Netflix binges and sleeps in on the week ends. I like who I am, I work hard and I live the life I want.

I'm currently seeing an awesome girl, she's smart, fit, has a ton of interests, loves life, and has a great job. We get along because we respect each other, we admire one another's lives and benefit from having each other there. She's awesome, and a catch. I'm lucky to have met her, and have her interest, but I'll be damned if I don't believe that I deserve someone of her caliber because of how hard I've worked to be who I am. Just like she deserves someone like me.

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Men and women connect sexually – that's it.

Your example is the equivalent of you going up to a girl and talking about nail polish or something with her. Since you obviously wouldn't do that, why do you want a girl to come fist bump you?

You can get a LOT more satisfaction out of watching a Seahawks game with your guy friends. Girls aren't a whole lot of fun to sit and "watch the game" with.

They're fun to have sex with and bask in their feminine energy. They're fun to carry on your back and do stupid shit.

Women DO make massive efforts to connect with men. If you think that has to involve her acting like a dude, it's obvious why you aren't seeing women's attempts to truly connect with you.

As soon as you grasp this idea and realize what the essence of a woman is, you'll be able to find the women who put effort into making a man happy, whether this means a girl who will make you breakfast and dinner because she enjoys pleasing you, or a girl who will wear sexy outfits and wants you to do whatever you want with her in bed, or a combination!

Women are beautiful and full of love. This can be hard to see because society has given us a definition of "woman". It's told us exactly what a woman should be. And then we get angry at women, because they don't live up to society's shitty standard.

The reality is, women are FAR better than society's shitty standard. So instead of asking "why won't women do this", realize your mind is narrow, and you just need to open it up a little to see how women DO go out of their way to help us men get to the next level in our lives.

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Mark Manson teaches you to be attractive by being honest and vulnerable. It goes against the grain of a lot of the seduction literature out there. It really dispels a lot of it that tells you to act a certain way, do this or that. A common mantra in those books is "fake it till you make it" but Mark really tells you, there's no need to fake anything. It's very much inner-game focused, so it's probably not be the ONLY book you'll need if you want to become a master.

However, it builds the best core foundation, IMO, for you to develop your own style and framework. Other outer-game books are good to add on top of it. It is also endorsed quite heavily by some of the more experienced guys around seddit and is referenced many, many times. I'm no mpua but have pretty good success w/ women (you can see in my FR's), and attribute a huge portion of it to Mark's book.

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This

Edit: (on account of "This." not being a valid comment) It's important to remember a lot of people don't really know what they want from a partner/SO/guy/delete as appropriate. At least one female friend of mine is in a relationship that she doesn't want to be in on account of thinking that she wanted to be a farmer's wife. That is, until she realised that living with a farmer meant... living on a farm.

Be mindful that a lot of people will go for people who exude the qualities that OP pointed out, without really "looking into" the person. It's why people like my friend get into relationships and, like my friend, cheat: they don't want to be in the situation that they are in, and see that as a way to get out, quickly.

Note: not all those who cheat, or indeed those who want out, do this.

Just be yourself, and be confident of who you are. You have gone for what you want in life so far, you do what you want, so show the girl(s) you're interested in that fact. Show them that you can say to the world, "look at who I am and what I have done." But be humble about it (I guess that's how you can be confident, yet vulnerable), don't be too blasé about your achievements. By fighting for what you want, you've shown that you are commit to yourself and your goals. That, right there, is confidence.

Some of my male friends are overweight - most of these, specific, friends don't do ANY physical exercise beyond what they need to do everyday (walk to the bus stop, etc). All of these guys have amazing girlfriends, and it's all because they're confident about themselves, their achievements and their goals.

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Title	Girls’re just as lonely and frustrated as we are. They want to meet a guy. But not just a guy, a great guy....
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	585
Comments	206
Date	June 3, 2013 6:53 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1fkggf/girlsre_just_as_lonely_and_frustrated_as_we_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/girlsre-just-as-lonely-and-frustrated-as-we-are.1353319 https://theredarchive.com/post/1353319

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