I am John Cooper - Teacher of Seduction without Pick up

SenorSeb · 2014-07-31T15:19:32+00:00

I like your approach to /r/seduction the multi dimensional perspective you presented is no doubt interesting. It really is a breath a fresh air considering this subreddit is suffocated by the same principles of "the game" . Not to mention by men who also believe that laying plenty of women can be simplified to a math. It's not easy of course ,but it's not rocket science either. Aside from compliment , however , I want to provide some feedback. I think you as an individual should dive deeper into your personal approach of this study. It seems like the concept you showcases is still a little young but nevertheless nascent . What I would really like to see you do is start a counter culture movement in this subreddit that challenges all the men who think this is purely a game.

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T13:41:59+00:00

John cooper, first of all I want to say thank you for your input. You are my favourite instructor from the whole group and all your videos were insanely helpful for me. Even the '20 smiles per hour' one helped me a ton. Thank you mate, I wish I could be near your level one day.

Now, in the announcement of this ama, /u/uberafc asked some questions which I found to be really good. Here it is:

"Questions in case I miss the AMA. I'd appreciate it if someone can ask them if I'm not around. Thanks!!!

Why did most of your videos get removed from youtube. At least the ones you had up via the natural lifestyles? Are you no longer with that company? Any possibility of re-uploading them?
Best way in your opinion to overcome approach anxiety
Best places to meet women besides bars/clubs?
How important are looks when it comes to picking up women? What should guys be focused on?
Things every guy should be doing to improve himself?
Finally, what are 6 books that you would recommend (can be any subject/genre) to guys who want to improve themselves and their lives? "

etcomro · 2014-07-31T14:51:12+00:00

My question is this: what are some rituals you do daily that you believe are most important with your success with women?

CauseImBatman · 2014-07-31T18:31:57+00:00

OP, you're just paraphrasing the "game" to create a place for your own business. Marketing 101. Of course, you add something of your own to make it look deeper and different, but all in all guys who learn pick up from the old school don't have to be shallow assholes. Just because you learn that "military descritption of reality" doesn't mean that this is all every guy from a PUA seminar/training will have to offer. I've seen some of the RSD Nation vids, and they do "preach" building value but also transcending the "game" itself and making it become natural.

"You can go to a shitty driving school, but you don't have to be a shitty driver."

I'm writing this not because I'm a "PUA Soldier", honestly, I'm not even trying to do any of that stuff, but I just don't like refreshed products that don't change a damn thing. All you do is approach pick up from a different angle, that is: be a decent man. The whole thing about positive energy is already there.

LaVidaJudoka · 2014-07-31T13:14:03+00:00

I follow this subreddit because I find it interesting and I think there are valuable principles to learn when it comes to the opposite sex. I'm not a PUA. While I currently have a girlfriend and in a fulfilling relationship I'm not above learning from others. I agree that being good with women and a PUA are two diametrically opposed things....or at the very least can be. I'm sure there plenty of men who use typical principles to create meaningful long term relationships. Yet, I agree that the posts I see and some of the videos I've seen seem to cheapen the idea of having meaningful relationships. I agree that women aren't some thing to acquire or close the deal on. We're talking about human beings and not a new car.

t0lby · 2014-07-31T17:34:16+00:00

John, I'm about to start college in a few days do you have any advice for some mindsets I should have coming into it and how to get the best results and take advantage of the whole experience?

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T19:00:52+00:00

someone asked how many girls i'd slept with... i think it got deleted but here's my answer

ha! A lot of people ask "what's your number John?" As if this is the barometer to how good someone is with women. When someone tells you they've slept with 100's of women, ask them this question "how many of those women are you still in contact with?" And then see what that golden number that is. That's a true test of how good they are with women. Slept with 150 women but none would answer your call and chat to you in middle of night when you feel down - hmm. So for that reason I'm not answering your question directly. It reinforces the pseudo-masculine, Lad culture, of thinking you are more of a man by the number of times you've acquired women. I worked with a client who had slept with 100+ women and I'd say he was the worst with women i'd ever coached.

amathrwwy · 2014-07-31T16:48:38+00:00

Hey John. I've watched all of your videos that I can find on youtube and your, for a lack of a better term, style/approach is the most natural and non-threatening i've seen. I have a few questions. Big fan!

What was the reaction of your friends or colleagues when you first voiced your shift in mentality with regards to seduction?
What is your opinion on social media based interaction like Tinder or Facebook? Are they helpful or not?
Will you upload more videos of you in action?

Thank you very much John!

AlexanderThuhGr8 · 2014-07-31T16:59:56+00:00

I've seen some of your videos and love them!

DomoArigatoMr_Roboto · 2014-07-31T17:22:31+00:00

Thanks for your work! It's nice to see a different views here.

Omnipraetor · 2014-07-31T21:32:13+00:00

I needed this! Thank you so much :) I read Models by Mark Manson and it changed my perception on the whole seduction process. But I was still feeling like I was somehow "tricking" them. This parasitic approach is what has kept me from approaching women.
I will start now to think in ways of giving, instead of taking.

Diece · 2014-08-01T00:06:22+00:00

When I first read this post I judged and thought you didn't know what you are talking about.

How closed minded I was, you answered my only reason I dont go out and do 10 approaches everyday. I always hated the PUA mindset but never found a way to take the general idea but flip it to a more positive light. I love this I even saved all of your posts. Thanks man!

Quick question though lately I have been dealing with the "what if she is not my age excuse". Any idea how to get past this?

Also what do you think of this blog? http://30sleeps.com/blog/2007/08/01/social-skydiving-the-art-of-talking-to-strangers/

2014-07-31T14:33:23+00:00

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senneca · 2014-07-31T15:32:47+00:00

You talk about taking, about the language of "the game", stating it's the wrong way to approach. I get that and have actually found the opposite perspective to be common here on r/seduction.

My question is: how would you go about giving? I'm trying to come to terms with my self-esteem and find it hard to give much, mainly because I find it hard to believe I have much to give. What ways and how do you contribute, create, share and give?

skinisblackmetallic · 2014-07-31T16:15:56+00:00

How to you feel about the statement "Don't put the pussy on a pedestal." and how do feel your use of the term "goddess" relates to that?

trustmeiminnocent · 2014-07-31T20:15:16+00:00

Love your perspective. I feel a lot of guys get carried away with number- closes, approaches, targets, and what not that they fail to see women as people as you and I and everyone on this sub. When you see girls

Everyone has a defining moment for them that changed how they view women and dating. What's yours?

Mine was ultimately getting the 'lets just be friends' bit from a girl I was into. We went on a few dates but I truly never made a move because I was too afraid of rejection. I realized how toxic being a 'nice guy' truly could be and a few months later I changed myself for the better. I used to think all the toxic things, girls only want douchebags, and all that jazz. It's great to be truly genuine and go after girls with true honesty.

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T21:08:32+00:00

guys i'm pooped! I will slowly answer any residual questions in the next few days. My fingers were going at a rate of knots to keep up with you all. Many thanks to all of you. great questions especially the ones that challenged me.

In summary, the main thesis to my work is:

learn the key seduction principles NOT the arbitrary techniques. so that you can express from the inside > out.
Move from working for a woman to playing with women
Projected Desire + Autonomy (Intent + no expectation)
Do the inner child/inner body work to reconfigure your own programming created through childhood trauma. Vipassana meditation is very good. Margaret paul has a good book called Inner bonding.
Lose all the pick up paraphernalia. Including all the military language.
Move from intentionally TAKING to intentionally GIVING. From control (fear) to Surrender (love)

Thanks again!!

View my coaching work: http://www.thejohncooper.net

Please join my fan page https://www.facebook.com/thejohncooper

and subscribe to my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/johnnycoops

:D

johnykoops · 2014-08-01T09:31:48+00:00

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johnykoops · 2014-07-31T18:32:52+00:00

Ok guys, I've been told I can start answering questions straight away. I'm new to AMA and reddit, and didn't realise I can start answering the moment i posted the thread! So off we go....

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T12:55:45+00:00

hi johny. i just want to ask your advice on how to be less needy in relationships. thanks

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T18:15:50+00:00

hey guys

DoxasticPoo · 2014-07-31T19:02:41+00:00

OMG... I just watched your video.

NO! The language of pickup does not define its nature, it is a byproduct of its nature.

Why do you blame men? Have you ever thought the "war" nature of sexual relationships comes from women?

I believe modern masculinity has been trauma-bonded by modern femininity. And you blaming men falls right into that.

Modern WOMAN plays a HUGE role in why the language of pickup is militaristic. Because she doesn't have a feminine frame, she has a masculine frame, what is your relation with her like? Is it a man and a women? NO! It's a man and a man. Which won't cause attraction. You need a man and a woman for attraction.

So what happens? Since the woman is acting like a man, either the Male will not be attracted, he will fall into a feminine frame (Nice Guy Syndrome) or he will maintain a masculine frame.

But it's NOT the TYPE of masculinity you get when a man and woman are attracted to each other. It's the type you get when men meet on a football field. It's competitive. It's about winning. It's about getting points, taking no prisoners, and once you've won (or lost), you move on to the next challenge.

Men generally don't cause this. Women's shit test are masculine. Women dressed in mini-skirts with their tits hanging out is masculine. So much of the general interaction we get with women is when they're in they're masculine frame. And that's NOT men's fault.

All we can do is consciously come at them with the right masculine frame and force them into their feminine frame. But in modern society it's not OK to be a man. Most men are shamed, made fun of and emotional beaten when they fail. And this mostly comes from WOMEN.

So for the love of god, stop beating up on men. And give at least some of the accountability to where it's deserved. (notice I didn't say responsibility, because I understand the difference between the two)

2014-07-31T16:24:42+00:00

Interesting.

marcusbisc · 2014-07-31T17:26:31+00:00

Hey john, I'm not going to be able to make it for your reddit timing so im just gonna post my question here in hopes of you replying.

I can resonate with your mentioned previous problem on not being able to bring girls close and up till recently I've been going through excuses after excuses to stop myself from going anywhere further than just intellectual and emotional banter and i bail when we're about to sleep together.

Ive recently uncovered and understood the underlying problems that i have, and am becoming conscious of when im pushing away the girl but i still follow through.

I would like to know how you managed to sit through/ deal with this struggle and not let it affect you taking things further with the girl. Thanks.

johnykoops · 2014-07-31T18:16:10+00:00

I was told i was starting at 12pm PST? which is in 45 mins...

admirals_go_nuts · 2014-07-31T18:44:18+00:00

John, i cant for the life of me approach women out of nowhere, i've been successful besides that though, either through acquaintances, internet, etc. But i can't achieve the person i aim to be if i can't immediately approach a girl i'm interested, regardless of where, when and how. How can i get there man?

EJM15 · 2014-07-31T19:21:01+00:00

Hey John loved the new video but what intrigued me most of all was what you said about the shadow work, building yourself from the core etc. I understand it's pretty difficult to properly articulate the concept but I was wondering have you tried transcendental meditation and if so, is it effective? Thinking about trying it,

TheLitTleFr3aK · 2014-07-31T22:36:45+00:00

First of all, hey John! I wanted to ask you, despite understanding your point of view when it comes to pua and The game, if there are any gurus or pua you actually like or agree with what they are preaching. In essence, i am actually asking what are the pua you recommend to us, the unexperienced, aside from yourself. I ask this because as you probably agree, it is nice to have as many sources as posible.

huoyuanjiaa · 2014-07-31T23:05:01+00:00

I have a different story to most "PUA's". I didn't go from zero to hero by learning "game". I was already successful with women...

I have seen this strategy with PUA's a lot, both the line above and how you are not a PUA. Trying to frame it as though the pickup lines and methods of thought are an inferior approach to natural game. Pretty sure seduction already for the most part has already tried/gone through that transition a fair while back. It's an okay marketing strategy because it allows you to gain the people who have tried light pickup material and failed as well as people who are stuck believing that who they are/what they think of themself is not a fluid state and that they are a nice guy who dislikes being deceitful among other various traits with negative connotations associated with PUA. I have not heard of you myself but your pitch seems fairly standard in my point of view. Any thoughts?

figyg · 2014-07-31T23:05:31+00:00

Hey John, thanks for the AMA.

So I've just recently gone from 0-60 in my dating life in the past 4 months. From not able to get a date to save My life to not having enough free time to make for all of the wonderful women around me. Quality problem, I know. But my big problem is I still don't feel comfortable kissing. I mean I'm hooking up with chicks, but generally the girl kisses me and most times I feel a little uncomfortable with it. Should kissing just be organic or am I being weird about it?

Thanks, looking forward to your insight!

viperex · 2014-08-01T04:51:44+00:00

Have to read this later

DiscreteOpinion · 2014-08-01T08:53:39+00:00

Hey John, thanks for sharing.

Have you ever been to Burning Man? You should check out this video. I think it will resonate well with you.

AutoFrost · 2014-08-01T08:57:42+00:00

I have to say I've been really disillusioned with the pickup system community. I've read The Game and The Mystery Method and Magic Bullets and it just didn't help me out. And I thought the reason was that I didn't fully understand or I didnt try hard enough. "If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always gotten" and for me that was periods of inaction or failure.

Through a completely different part of my life, I did some deep introspection. I thought about why I was failing with women, well why I was actually failing in general with life. I decided to try something new, and ended up ditching everything I was taught, trying to forget it all. I read 6 imo mentally healthier books. And reading your responses and hearing out what youre trying to teach, it really resonated with me.

Late question: You talk a lot about how a lot of men view women and life. But changing ones' core perspective is usually quite difficult especially if it has been with them for years. How do you exactly coach guys into "emptying their cup" so to speak and making a permanent, fundamental shift?

Dragonslayer47 · 2014-08-01T14:04:32+00:00

It seams to me that you need to be very extraverted to do this. Do you have any tips on how to inprove the giving and non fear for introverts like me?

edbenz · 2014-08-01T15:20:26+00:00

Dude, you look just like tommy Rogers from between the buried and me! Google him and you'll see. I love what you have to say in this thread.

PRseduc · 2014-08-01T17:44:59+00:00

Hey JohnCooper, I just wanted to ask how to make seduction more fun? You seem to really enjoy what you do. When I began the journey I was ecstatic and learning was fun! I didn't really care about the girls and I came with a full cup. Now I started playing it like a "game" my wingman is awful and just imposes it as a game and I know that seduction is supposed to be a lighthearted affair? Any advice?

deepfriedapplejuice · 2014-09-26T15:18:46+00:00

2014-11-06T10:20:27+00:00

There are guys who does pickup and is very respectful to women. Pick up artist is just anyone that does pickup.

Anyways love your videos and point of view. Good luck.

DoxasticPoo · 2014-07-31T18:48:15+00:00

You sound dangerously white knighty.... One top of that, just because you deny the language of pick up doesn't mean you are not doing pick up.

You go out. To meet women. To have sex with. That's pick up.

A rose by any other name is just the same.

I can't help but think you are also blaming modern men for the state of Male/Female pick up relations. It's both, always. And this line, "Once we reach a true place of wholeness, our view of women moves from "target" / "set", to "goddess / sister / allie / friend", our energy moves from parasitic actions of taking, to symbiotic actions of giving / creating / sharing. We move from control to surrender, from working for a woman to playing with women, from fear to love."

Fuck off! Really? "goddess"? They're no goddess. They're just a fucking person. And honestly, I can't help but think they're less of a person these days. Like they're some kind of socially programmed robot that's been infected with a virus. Pickup is just capitalizing on that virus.

Pick up isn't control. It's capitalizing on our current social rules/norms to get what you want out of life. And men are going out trying to "take" because that's what women do. It's a "give" and "take". It's a market. Viewing it as anything other is just creating a false reality that somehow works for you. Likely your self-perceived SMV and confidence comes out in your interactions with women and Tyler's law of state transference tells us they'll believe you. But that's it.

You walk a scary white knight, pedestalizing line. A line I stay as far from as possible.

freefromdesire · 2014-07-31T21:15:16+00:00

Any tips for a guy with a severe stutter?

I have had my fair share of success of women (slept with around 20, to quantify), I am quite social, and I meet people spontaneously - BUT, when I start blocking, I still get nasty/confused stares and a lot of women are immediately turned off. I generally make it a point to mention it, which helps tremendously.

What's your take on it?

PS - I do work on some techniques to improve my speech.

bigbadjesus · 2014-08-01T12:10:26+00:00

This is the only worthwhile post I've ever read in this subreddit.

HungryTacoMonster · 2014-07-31T17:28:21+00:00

Four hours in and nothing answered.

I'm wondering if he knows how AMAs work.

Indianbro · 2014-07-31T16:56:59+00:00

John,

What's the best way to practice seduction if you cant get into bars because you aren't of age?

2014-07-31T17:30:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	I am John Cooper - Teacher of Seduction without Pick up
Author	johnykoops
Upvotes	330
Comments	177
Date	July 31, 2014 12:45 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2c8g4o/i_am_john_cooper_teacher_of_seduction_without/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/i-am-john-cooper-teacher-of-seduction-without-pick.1374412 https://theredarchive.com/post/1374412

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