Men need to work actively against women's rights for their issues to be take seriously.

Proudvow · 2024-12-15T08:26:39+00:00

I don't think the best answer to build allies is "Hey, let's actively try to oppress the other side." I feel like if you searched your mind, instead of using your feelings, which are obviously kinda in a sensitive place by the unfolding of the above post, then you'd realize that. PRO-MAN IS NOT ANTI-WOMAN. What you're talking about is EXTREMELY counter intuitive brother.

MidoriEgg · 2024-12-15T08:48:45+00:00

I think one of the biggest reasons that men’s issues aren’t taken as seriously is because so many men who speak about them are incapable of doing so without also either attacking women’s rights or being overly disparaging to women.

It ends up with ‘mens issues’ being associated with the type of guys who say ‘your body my choice’ or whatever and ends up delegitimising it completely.

random_radishes · 2024-12-15T08:29:37+00:00

I'm not gonna tell my story again, I've told it too many times, but I have EVERY reason to be sore at women, and women have EVERY reason to be sore at men, and men have EVERY reason to be sore at women, but I don't think that's gonna solve anything do you? Just produce more of the same we're seeing in this generation, a bunch of negativity and hate. I think you've lumped all Feminists in with the Man Hate Brigade, them and Feminists are different. I think we need to sort out bad actors on both sides. Andrew Tate is JUST as harmful is not more than the Man Hate Brigade because he gives us all a bad name, like the Man Hate Brigade gives females a bad name. PRO-MAN IS NOT ANTI-WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

conflictw_SOmom · 2024-12-15T09:16:04+00:00

I don’t get this mentality at all. I saw the things that you said are unequal and want changed and I agree with pretty much all of that list. But I don’t see how threatening rights of women are gonna get any of the issues solved. Because first, women are recognized under our amendments as having equal rights as men. A change requires 2/3 of congress or 2/3 of states to ratify it. Idk how the hell you’re gonna convince a capitalist system to turn against almost 50% of its labor and consumer base. Losing that much labor/spending capacity would be catastrophic for our economy in the way it’s set up right now for any legitimate businesses/corporations and politicians to lobby/extend support for it. And you’re gonna need sponsors. Plus politicians are not gonna support an asinine idea of threatening women’s rights when they are 50% of their constituents.

Furthermore, the only way for solutions for most of the issues you’ve mentioned is to get laws changed on a state level. In a federalist nation like the US, every state has its own laws on marriage, divorce, custody and paternity. You need to be organizing with legislators in your state house of representatives and senate to push bills that can help you accomplish those goals. You will need to take an active part in drafting and advocating for potential bills with state legislators to get any kind of action. I’ve been the person helping grassroots organizations draft bills with state representatives and I’ve also been a state legislator. Majority of the social and environmental issue bills we passed in my time in the state senate came from the efforts of state/areawide organizations or local chapters of national organizations.

Threatening women’s rights as a “bargaining chip” doesn’t get you anywhere other than alienating a good chunk of your own bloc and any allies you might make.

Siukslinis_acc · 2024-12-15T12:50:05+00:00

I think one of the reasons mens problems aren't taken seriously is because those people can't communicate it without dismissing the issues of women. It tends to be looked as something inferior if you aren't able to speak about an issue without needing to drag someone down.

Even here the men who are talking about their hardships in dating 90% of the time also state that women have it easy, while dismissing the hardshops that women have in dating.

I think this publication does a good job with talking about mens issues without dismissing the issues of women.

Wise-Comedian-4316 · 2024-12-15T08:26:11+00:00

Most men's issues have nothing to do with rights at all. And working to attack women's rights makes no sense at all, either as a bargaining tool or a way to raise awareness of men's struggles.

Men and women work against men and discredit their struggles. It's extremely common. I'm not sure what you're idea coming true would solve regarding men being told what they're lived experiences are and never listened to or empathized with

Routine-Present-3676 · 2024-12-15T08:34:40+00:00

this is an insane take. I can’t even be polite about this. you came on this Internet in the year 2024 and said men need to strip rights away from women so you can feel like you’re being heard. are you fucking kidding me? rights are not a zero sum game. you don’t get more rights when I get less.

random_radishes · 2024-12-15T09:05:15+00:00

Men don’t have any political power?

The vast majority of people in politics are male and the majority of voters are men. So how exactly don’t men have any political power

the_1st_inductionist · 2024-12-15T08:28:26+00:00

The main problem with men not being taken seriously is that they aren’t taking their rights seriously. What’s objectively moral? What’s objectively a right? What are objectively man’s rights?

Edit: Also, men need to do what feminists did. Women are half of the population. You need them on your side just like feminists needed men on their side.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-12-15T23:27:18+00:00

This is post is the perfect example of how MRAs keep shooting themselves in the foot and why they’re not taken seriously.

2024-12-15T14:08:21+00:00

Problem with men is that they dont have bargaining power to make their issues heard. They dont have political power, or unified front

Not having political power is not the same as not having a unified front. Men have an outsized political power, it’s just that the vast majority of men don’t see the same problems a much smaller group of men see.

You think men who vote against abortion rights will help abolish circumcision? Fat chance. Men against abortion rights are very pro religious freedom. And pro parental rights and authority. The same men against abortion are definitely never going to vote in favor of financial abortion, having more equality in sentencing or removing the draft.

You want to give anyone more freedom to remove rights? Fafo. They won’t stop with women.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-12-15T14:27:06+00:00

Women aren’t the main obstacle to men’s rights, other men are.

Men are the vast majority of politicians, judges, business owners and executives, law enforcement, and military.

Divorce and custody laws are gender neutral and more than 70% of family court judges are men.

Colleges have been actively soliciting male applicants and lowering admissions standards for men in an effort to equalize their gender mix for more than 30 years.

Men are overwhelmingly the ones who refuse mental health services and medication. This also contributes to the gender gap in substance abuse as men “self medicate” instead of seeking help.

Men complain that boys struggle in school because most teachers are women but fewer men become teachers every year despite targeted recruitment, scholarships and support programs to encourage men to become teachers.

Men’s dissatisfaction with their number of sexual partners is not a societal issue.

You’re not missing “bargaining power”, you’re missing a consensus even amongst men re/ what the issues are and what the desired solutions might be.

S0yslut · 2024-12-15T08:40:44+00:00

I've said this in another thread so I'll just repeat it here-

I don't like nor agree with modern day feminism, manhating, etc. I've said this more than once before. That being said- Payback is a bitch.

Women not being taken seriously has been happening since the beginning of time. Men are now angry because the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Only 15 years ago (YES 15!) and I'm being conservative with that answer. More like less than 15 years ago.

If women continued to be scrutinized 24/7 like back in the day, blamed for being assaulted/raped, blamed for not looking a certain way- Men would have continued to live in ignorant bliss.

Read that last sentence over & over again.

flipsidetroll · 2024-12-15T11:29:18+00:00

You write like a child. White people don’t deny racism, but pretending all white people are racist means you have an agenda. And some black people think black people cant be racist. So instead of separating them, work together to stop racism against all.

When men say don’t believe all women, but then they turn around and believe all men are innocent and being falsely accused, that makes them hypocrites. So instead of separating them, work together to stop sexual assault and domestic violence against all.

Do you honestly think that the governments will retract women’s rights? Are you high? And you somehow think that will make people look at men’s issues more seriously? I can’t actually believe someone is this stupid to believe this is a good idea. “I hate murderers so I’m gonna go out and murder all the murderers.” Ok cupcake. Have you eaten your crayons already?

wtknight · 2024-12-15T16:51:53+00:00

The problem is that men aren't collectively for men's rights like women are for women's rights. It's not like men are taking women's rights all that seriously, especially when one sees how many men are viewing abortion rights. The difference is that women are much better at being vocal and universally supporting their issues.

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-12-15T12:07:22+00:00

No you shouldn't. If you do this then no one is gonna take you seriously. Everyone will just mock you for a good reason.

If you want men's issues to be taken seriously then you should start to take it seriously. Do something about it. Make organisations or movements to get people to care about them, and then try to fix them.

This is the only way you will get what you want. Because the problem isn't feminism. It's that men don't care about these issues. Because these are issues most men don't face. And the majority who don't have these issues won't care for them. Or they don't prioritize it over other issues, because you can only focus your energy on x amount of things. It's that simple, although extremely sad.

If you want to go against women rights. Then all what will happen is that you will fight men and women. Good luck trying to get shit done when no one will take you seriously. Because most people aren't interested in taking away what they view as women's right.

Kreeps_United · 2024-12-15T16:06:37+00:00

This sounds like it comes from a conservative trying to use the problems men face to push conservative views without anyone noticing.

We notice.

You're the reason men aren't fully honest with their concerns. They don't want to be accused of being you.

Bikerbats · 2024-12-15T18:29:10+00:00

Never going to happen. Only bitter guys like you are willing to make things rough on women to gain a point. Those of us with families full of women we actually like will never let it happen. Also, Trump is not going to stick it to women. High level appointments like Gabbard, Bondi, Barret, are not working to set back women's rights.

-Blatherskite · 2024-12-15T16:35:28+00:00

Your argument is so catastrophically bad it’s almost impressive. You’re seriously suggesting that men should 'work actively against women’s rights' to solve their own issues? That’s not advocating for men, that’s a toddler tantrum in writing. Men’s struggles (suicide rates, mental health stigma, societal pressures) are real and serious, but blaming women for them is not only lazy, it’s pathetic.

If men don’t have a 'unified front' or political power to address their issues, who exactly do you think is stopping them? Spoiler: it’s not feminists. The majority of lawmakers, CEOs, and leaders are still men. If men’s issues are ignored, it’s because the men in power don’t care, not because women are holding secret meetings to keep you down.

Your comparison of feminists to white supremacists is as vile as it is stupid. White supremacy is built on centuries of systemic violence and oppression. Feminism exists because women have had to fight tooth and nail to gain basic rights. Asking for equality isn’t oppression. your fragile ego just doesn’t know how to function without a system that prioritizes men.

And let’s get one thing straight, men’s struggles exist because of the rigid gender roles and toxic ideals of masculinity that feminism actively challenges. You’re angry at the very people who are working to dismantle the expectations that harm you.

If you want to address men’s issues, great, join the conversation and do the work, but framing it as a war against women’s rights just proves you’re not interested progress. You’re just bitter the world doesn’t revolve around you. Grow up.

AutoModerator · 2024-12-15T08:21:01+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2024-12-15T08:21:01+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

2024-12-15T10:25:55+00:00

instead of talking about it, do it. The reason why I watch this stuff is because it's fascinating to see people make a profit off of something that we should just take for granted. Like if you're not able to get involved with a lady for legitimate reasons, there is no discussion, there is no debate, you just don't get involved. And yet, apparently, it's not good enough for these "men's spaces" to just let that happen.

and I think it goes back to the fact that everybody makes money off of something, who knows, maybe some of these guys were in the jewelry business, and then finding out that nobody's going to get married again lead them to try to do a different kind of business. it's just fascinating.

Accomplished-Alps204 · 2024-12-15T21:12:53+00:00

Something something barganing power. OK, got it.

No-Chapter9258 · 2024-12-17T19:10:08+00:00

😂you do know it’s men doing it to themselves right…men don’t take other men seriously when they’re assaulted and never fail to say oh i’m sorry what’s her number tho. this is a crazy read stop blaming women for your problems

Muscletov · 2024-12-15T10:47:33+00:00

I don't think we will have major advancements in men's issues in the foreseeable future.

Both genders have very strong instinctual biases against men, which cause a lack of empathy and sympathy towards men.
Most men are overall still comfortable with their gender roles, in contrast to women (in the past). Thus they see no need to stand united.
Women are overall not only comfortable with but adamant about men performing their gender roles and pressure men to do so via shaming and sexual selection.
Our society is still very dependent on men performing their gender roles (e.g. labor, defense), whereas women's historical function as housekeepers and caretakers is easily substituted (e.g. via appliances, third party care).
Modern feminism and adjacent political movements are extremely dominant and ideologically opposed to adressing men's issues.

alwaysright0 · 2024-12-15T23:19:50+00:00

Why do you feel men's rights are in competition with women's?

Why can't men fight for their rights (not sure what rights you mean) without involving women at all?

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-12-15T13:07:22+00:00

It wouldn’t work. Let’s look at your example you keep using in response to other comments here; financial abortion.

Let’s say men vote to take away women’s right to abortion completely to use as a bargaining chip. All women have to do is take away sex and allow the birth rate to drop. In such a case many men will crumble for a crumb of pussy and change sides as well as big daddy government will come to negotiate with women. Thus women can get their rights back from big daddy government without ever having to agree to give men financial abortions and the government has no incentive to help men because allowing financial abortion will cost the government tax dollars to support poor single moms and open more orphanages that normally men would be forced to support.

Why would women negotiate with evil men trying to take away their rights as a way to force women into slavery to men when women can get more and be treated better by big daddy government? Big daddy government could also start a war as a way of eliminating the problem men in society and women would help inform the government where those bad women hating men are so they can be collected and shipped off.

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-12-15T14:28:37+00:00

feminists deny men's issues.

Feminism is a rights movement for freeing women from oppression based on the female sex. Claiming that feminism denies male issues is like claiming the ASPCA denies the issues of homeless humans: Rights' Groups focus on specific things. That's the only way the can make progress.

Most individual feminists do acknowledge that men struggle. The problem is where the struggle is actually coming from.

It's really hard to take someone's issues seriously if they don't take their own issues seriously. Men refuse to work in mental healthcare, and then wonder why mental healthcare doesn't have male perspectives. Men make fun of male victims of rape and pedophilia, and then wonder why male victims aren't taken seriously. Men refuse to talk to or hug their dudes, and then wonder why their dudes are lacking emotional attention.

Even MRA organizations can't stop focusing on women instead of focusing on men. They make mens rights into "spiting women" instead of "uplifting men", which is what you're doing here.

They dont have political power, or unified front because

Because of rich men. Rich men oppress poor men.

2024-12-15T17:40:09+00:00

they dont have bargaining power to make their issues heard. They dont have political power, or unified front because feminists have worked very hard to deny that to men.

WHAT?

2024-12-15T17:00:35+00:00

I've noticed when men talk about women's rights, they say women now have more rights than men, as if women gaining more rights came at the expense of mens rights. Which is not true, but rather we live in societies that do not truly value it's ppl, with women having slightly less advantages.

The idea that men gain their rights at the expense of womens is a scarcity mindset

The solution is that men need to take their rights and disadvantages seriously enough for changes to come. Women aren't the enemy. The patriachs are.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-12-15T14:21:01+00:00

I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

You are going to have infighting with men because of the 80%ers, lower rung dudes who run sneaky fucker game to have a chance. Even if the status quo sucks, they will fight to keep it and be allies.

Men need to be selfish with their actions and intentions. This can include forming their own networks to get the things they want. The lack of authority or action most guys take over their lives leads to them acting like women and fighting for rights to be enforced on their behalf as opposed to just doing it themselves.

As much as men have every right to be wary of shit like family law, I have seen men who are legitimately willing to burn everything to the ground get better outcomes because the women they were divorcing new they shouldn’t fuck with them.

Take from that what you will:

Any-Remove-4032 · 2024-12-16T03:36:31+00:00

I won't say its not happening. I won't say you're incorrect. All I can say is....

...I don't feel like my power is any less than my dad's. I got a job that i love. A marriage that I'm happy in. And we just bought a home. My life is currently going better than my dad's and even better than my grandpa's. Just my experience. If youre right, ooo wee, I'm a lucky boy 😊

Hadal_Benthos · 2024-12-15T08:43:00+00:00

This. Take women's issues hostage until measures resolving them become offered by truly egalitarian politicians in package deals resolving men's issues as well.

just_a_place · 2024-12-15T17:00:53+00:00

The entire problem here is that you are thinking like a feminist yourself. You have a gynocentric worldview instead of an Androcentric one. 🤨

Men are not women! Shocking! I know.

How's about we solve our problems like men, instead of being these weird fucking cringe as clones of women and how women act, think, feel, and emote. Stop fighting like a girl and learn to fight like a man.

Title	Men need to work actively against women's rights for their issues to be take seriously.
Author	carrotskincare
Upvotes	0
Comments	173
Date	December 15, 2024 8:21 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1heo918/men_need_to_work_actively_against_womens_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-need-to-work-actively-against-womens-rights.1538551 https://theredarchive.com/post/1538551

Comments