Is Ephebophilia the reason grown men shit on male teenage heartthrobs so much?

funobtainium · 2019-03-28T13:31:52+00:00

A lot of comments from guys seem to be missing the point about why young teenage girls like Bieberesque guys and boy bands. It's because they are non-threatening and "soft".

Young teenage girls (and adolescent girls) mature faster than the boys in their school, and these guys look young like them, but sing about romance and love and dress well and have good haircuts don't look they smell like gym socks or are going to talk about Fortnite all day.

Of course young teen girls aren't going to swoon over a guy who looks like their hairy bear dad, ffs. They wish the boys in their school were like Harry Styles.

fellowhumanbekind · 2019-03-28T10:14:44+00:00

Most of the men I know barely pay attention to teenage “heartthrobs” anymore. Back when I was a teenager I hated them because they got so much attention from girls and it’s “edgy” to go against the mainstream.

Now I really could not care less about them and same goes for all my friends. As for being attracted to teenagers, that a huge no go for me because it’s a fucking child and I’m not a degenerate.

nevomintoarce · 2019-03-28T10:31:18+00:00

Adults complain about things young people do and like because they're old and out of touch and hate being reminded of it. There's a point when adults stop paying attention to new things and just try to keep things recognizable. Seeing boys getting fawned over by girls for things that in their day would've gotten them hated on, beat up or considered unattractive is one aspect of that.

how men stay attracted to teenagers for their whole lives while women's preferences keep evolving as they age

It's more that dumb women are attractive because they're "easy" and teenagers are the dumbest of all, whereas as women get older their list of demands for what constitutes a worthwhile man keeps increasing because she's expecting to cash in on a man's social and material value.

_Tumbleweed- · 2019-03-28T09:06:37+00:00

Last time I checked most men are not attracted to 13 year olds. At least I hope they aren’t. 🤢

passepar2t · 2019-03-28T10:25:51+00:00

I don't know any grown men who hate on boy-stars. Sometimes they're mocked for being corporate puppets, and sometimes they're disliked for doing douchey shit in public. But straight up jealous hatred is not something I've seen.

Also, men have this pecking order dynamic, where they feel good about themselves for being older and more experienced. Maybe that's it.

flamingoinghome · 2019-03-28T10:19:49+00:00

I honestly don't think that's it. I think it's more...there's a reason "teenage boy" is used as a shorthand for male base desires. A lot of guys feel like they're their 15-year-old selves walking around in a weird 30something meat suit. And they sort of assume women are the same. So they look at what teenage girls are into and think "this is it, the female base desires that they temper with age so as not to be gross."

And then...well. Think of all the guys on here who list Jason Momoa and Chris Hemsworth as the One And Only Type of Man Women Are Really, Really Attracted To. Those guys ARE hot, don't get me wrong, but they have something else in common--they're the kind of men a lot of guys want to BE, independent of what women think. They're strong and powerful. Most men really DON'T want, just for themselves, to be pretty and sensitive and maybe wearing eyeliner while they sing about heartbreak and pine over True Love. So when they see evidence that Yes, that's A Thing that many women, on a Pure Id level, REALLY go in for, it makes them VERY uncomfortable.

flyinghorse1 · 2019-03-28T09:18:48+00:00

I find myself getting annoyed at the skinny/scrawny ones. The irony is that I used to be that when I was 13 and it was only the gym and puberty that saved me. I think some of annoyance comes because its something I had to work hard to avoid. (footnote: I never vocalise this dislike of the scrawny popstars).

Worse_Username · 2019-03-28T13:13:26+00:00

The thing that disturbed me about Justin Bieber in his teenage years was how many grown women seemed to be obsessed with and sexualizing him.

historicalsnake · 2019-03-28T14:26:07+00:00

I’d say it’s all connected to the mens egos and insecurities. They can’t attract as many women anymore, don’t have as youthful of an appearance, they miss the young love without all the adult worries, feel teenage boys are taking even overage girls, feel upset that they’ve worked so hard on being a strong successful man and those guys get off so easy etc.

However, I do feel it’s misleading to say that women’s preferences evolve but men’s don’t. That’s completely false. It’s a very complex issue but women are also attracted to young guys, and men’s preferences evolve too.

exit_sandman · 2019-03-28T09:50:00+00:00

Can't comment on that, me and my mates already had a certain disdain for these guys when we were teenagers ourselves; however, the reason for this was the girls swooning over them.

Justin Bieber on the other hand didn't really bother me personally - mostly because he completely flew under my radar. If I did hate him today, it would be mostly because he symbolizes everything that's wrong with female fangirling the same way boybands did back in the 90s - but not because I have a problem with the guy as such (he seems to be a dolt, but that's hardly something unique).

Sprach_McGrachan · 2019-03-28T14:12:35+00:00

are grown men upset that teenage girls like teenage boys and don't have an early and life long preference for 35 year old, established men? Or is it something else?

Its because women suck as creatures, and grown men who happen to shit on teenage heartthrobs might do so because they are reminiscing about the power and strength they have had 40+ (the self-control and strength an older man can have) which they could have had in their teens if young women had not entered the picture.

Ecnomically elevating women does nothing.

However, un-fucking women so that women do not suck as creatures would go a long way towards renewing faith in a woman's claims about being the eternal victim (victimhood is what feminism thrives on).

A woman with a strong constitution and character who has a few problems in life = believable.

A feminist who claims everyone is out to get her = probably the next moderator at PPD.

LeJacquelope · 2019-03-28T13:42:44+00:00

about how men stay attracted to teenagers for their whole lives

Woah, slow your roll. Many of us men recoil with disgust at younger women. We're just not as vocal. You do know that there is an entire niche devoted to cougar worship, right? The Graduate brought that proud and unapologetic group of men strutting proudly into the open decades ago.

abaxeron · 2019-03-28T14:47:59+00:00

Something I've noticed since I was an edgy “not like the other teenage girls” teenage girl hating on celebrities my peers liked is that it's mostly grown men who do that, and they have very different motivations from me.

When you were teenager, you hung out with grown men.

Have you considered that they were a certain type of grown men? Let me guess, almost all of them were single (unmarried) and liked alcohol and drugs.

All their insults would center around the fact that those teenage heartthrobs (Justin Bieber, Twilight, One Direction) are not real men and the implied conclusion was that they are unworthy of attention from teenage girls.

hwot.

For starters, these three are COMPLETELY different. The only thing they have in common is prominent chins.

are grown men upset that teenage girls like teenage boys and don't have an early and life long preference for 35 year old, established men?

hwot. Pattinson was 22 at the beginning of Twilight film series. The youngest OD member is currently 25.

I'm a grown man, and I couldn't care less what teenage girls like and don't like. I'm too busy with other important stuff.

women's preferences keep evolving

This is deep euphemism for hypergamous branch-swinging; I like it.

Ralman23 · 2019-03-28T17:21:20+00:00

(Justin Bieber, Twilight, One Direction)

I hated them because commercials and promotions of them were getting annoying and hyped up to the point where they just became irrelevant.

Plus, unless you're willing to defend Twilight series (either book or film) to quote Jeremy Jahns "It's porn for women" lol.

One Direction and Justin Bieber just have annoying music and it's torturous to listen to if you wanted to. If you like them, great, but don't expect everyone to agree.

I think the ephebophilia topic would be better talked about if it was female school teachers "have sex" -as the media puts it- with male students or vice versa.

nemma88 · 2019-03-28T09:18:03+00:00

are not real men and the implied conclusion was that they are unworthy of attention from teenage girls.

Yeah it's pretty much jelly. Not sure many older men care too much about this at all though. Most over 30's are not concerning themselves with lives of teenagers in reality.

diffdedbed · 2019-03-28T13:21:01+00:00

Teens are inexperienced, which makes them act stupid.

As a old man by reddit standards I know this because I am removed enough from my teen years to remember how stupid I was.

Teenage heart throb type things is just a stupid teen exhibiting the most basic instinct women have to lusting for status which all those men you mention have by virtue of being a celeb.

Added many people think the status of a celeb is somewhat unearned, entertainers get too much status for what they do.

So its part bitterness at a system, and part stupid kids.

And this is all about status and womens mating preferences.

Young men don't have heart throbs, they might say some young celeb is hot, but you don't see a cult like following and screaming men chasing her. Men don't care about status and would be just as happy having sex with one of those screaming girl fans as a female celeb.

Arobin08 · 2019-03-28T09:27:02+00:00

are grown men upset that teenage girls like teenage boys and don't have an early and life long preference for 35 year old, established men?

This is probably it. Adult men find teen girls hot and are resentful/jealous that those girls like a different type of guy than them.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2019-03-28T14:29:44+00:00

PPD is so whack....

IF you have adult males even commenting on teenage heartthrobs like Justin Bierber, then they are really men....they are likely the pajama onesie wearing, video game addicted doofuses munching on a Cheeto and swilling Redbull to stay alert so they don't miss their next Fortnite mission alert.

But in reality, I think Op is just making shit up again about fantasy men hating on boybands because of the absolute irrational hatred of PPD women about men preferring physically fit, healthier and yes better personality younger females. Such bitterness is unattractive and likely a major reason why they are getting ignored for one of those younger girls.

[deleted] · 2019-03-28T11:13:54+00:00

I don't know,i always wondered this but for my case it wasn't only grown men it was the boys at school,having grown up with one direction,they would always call them gay and get jealous.Are you sure it isn't just jealousy that when theses men were young they couldn't get girls like you and me to fall for them while 1D had it so much easier or maybe it reminds them of how unattractive they are so hence the bashing realising that other men have it easier?i mean guys on the refill hate chads and the guys from 1D would be considered chads,guys do get jealous of each other you know especially when those men got the full package looks,intelligence and riches/power.

JustRuss79 · 2019-03-28T14:42:14+00:00

Let me deep dive my own reasons here... I'm very introspective and willing to admit my own faults...

Yes. I believe that most men remain attracted to girls starting from the age they first noticed women, for some that's 13 and up...that doesn't mean they would act on those feelings, just that they can appreciate a beautiful teen girl. This especially gets easier to get over once you have children (either your own daughter, or having to interact with a teenage girl at any time).

yes... partially jealousy, most teen boys are awkward between 11 and 16 or so... gawky, pimply, breaking voices, bad hygeine... Seeing these "pretty boys" they feel they do not represent REAL teen boys, and yes, they are not "manly" and thus shouldn't be attractive...

Specifically for JB... I never had a problem with similarly aged girls finding him dreamy... until I heard some of his songs that were super emotional... knowing that a teen boy cannot understand that kind of emotional depth, and some of the lyrics to his songs were overtly sexual (at least to me). Something like "First Dance" really REALLY sounded to me like thinly veiled references to sex, some people disagree, and maybe its just my adult mind hearing what it wants... but ... his whole "character" felt fake and wrong to me and I hated my daughters finding him dreamy based on that fakeness.

In general though... I think adult men just don't like teen heartthrobs because they are too pretty and too fake. Same reason they don't like adult heartthrobs. They try to justify their feelings with comments about efemininity etc, but they just something about the fake persona rubs them wrong.

Now... my deep dive into myself...is not telling me WHY it rubs me wrong... other than ... probably the same reason some women hate airbrushed supermodels... pretty boys are too perfect.

EDIT After reading others comments, I think they've pinned it for me.

Teen heartthrobs are pretty boys... but they don't seem "real". Men want their daughters and young cousins and whatnot...to date "nice boys". Justin Beiber never seemed like a "nice young man" to me, he seemed fake... like a player. I didn't like the attention he got from women of all ages, and would not like my daughter to date him...

A Jonas Brother though? They were dreamy even to me! They seemed much more "real" while still being cute and singing well. So... YMMV

CRGRO · 2019-03-28T14:55:19+00:00

Teenage heart throbs are hated because they're iconic cash cows that spout scripted lyrics from the owners of the industry based on what those owners think sells.

In other words

The big cats in the music biz place someone who would meet the criteria of a heartthrob into the spotlight - kid willingly accepts because what teenage straight kid wouldn't want instant access into being an high status male and practically limitless income - he sings words that were written for him by someone else. The words generally follow the same thematic pattern of the heartthrob's value being based off a girls acceptance.

So it ends up getting normalized that the blue pill lyrics harbor unlimited attention from girls but in reality it's because of his status.

gunbusterxl · 2019-03-28T11:17:14+00:00

Most adult men don't care about teenage heartthrobs, because they're simply not exposed to them unless they have a teenage daughter. If the topic comes up, then yes they are mocked as effeminate because they simply are. Imagine Justin Beiber playing football, or working on an oil rig, or joining the Marine Corps. Honestly, how well do you think he'd do? Hell, imagine any role that men generally admire and respect, mentally place a boyband member there, and see how quickly you cringe.

Edit: please don't misunderstand. I have no problem with Justin Beiber, and wish him all the success he is due for his hard work in the music industry. I respect him as a person, just not as a man.

[deleted] · 2019-03-28T12:41:23+00:00

For me it is exasperation that young female relatives are attracted to “men” I consider to be scum. I obviously don’t want to fuck or cockblock my young female relatives, this isnt 4chan.

In a way, this is just how life works. Parents, and older relatives always want you to date a nice young man, or nice young girl archetype. Because they want what’s best for you, rather than for you to become a groupie, join some pathetic counterculture and gorge yourself on meaningless STD ridden NSA casual sex for decades.

Of course, the latter is much more enjoyable, just like eating cake or taking drugs is enjoyable despite it’s deleterious effects. That’s why people still do those things, even though their parents, teachers etc tell them not to.

ricoue · 2019-03-28T14:37:05+00:00

This idea where men and women should be of similar age in order to engage in sexual relationships is part of the social engineering we’ve been subjected to. From a practical point of view, it makes zero sense. Historically, it made zero sense. Nowadays, it also makes zero sense unless your objective is to further destroy heterosexual relationships.

Think about your early teens. Do you remember who your girl classmates or friends went nuts for? Most likely older boys and definitely older pop stars.

The modern obsession with “age appropriate relationships” is dysgenic because men don’t reach peak power by the time women reach peak power. An 18-year-old young man just hasn’t had the time to develop himself and build his empire yet. An 18-year-old young woman, on the other hand, has already peaked and loses value as time passes and her fertility and looks fade away. Matching those two is a bad idea because it selects men the way men historically selected women: by age and looks, and leaves out of the equation important, civilization-building traits. Traits we need to survive. Traits that don’t manifest that soon.

Forcing high achievers to date women their own age unnecessarily curses them with the same fertility window women have, effectively resulting in high achievers having less offspring while some 17-year-old kid already knocked up a 16-year-old HS gal for the second time.

Of course. Older women are the most concerned about it because they’re the only ones that “benefit” from this “age-appropriate” thing. If it would become socially acceptable for older men to date 18-year-old women, every woman older than 18 would be at a disadvantage.

Women hate younger women. They’re rivals.

Furthermore, if this was socially acceptable, divorce would be a whole helluva lot less appealing to women. Women generally initiate divorce because they know they are going to be the one that comes out on top. They cannot bear the thought of a man ending up with a younger woman after she is gone.

[deleted] · 2019-03-28T10:00:05+00:00

Nope. I see no lack of attention from teenage girls, legal age or younger. Then again I wouldn't tap them unless they showed me their ID tp confirm their age. Teenage girls with heavy makeup look sometimes 25 years old. So gotta be careful

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-03-28T13:08:08+00:00

Nah. They were just gay. Especially if their music sucked.

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__sad_but_rad__ · 2019-03-28T12:46:26+00:00

it's mostly grown men who do that

It might be an american thing?

I (35M) live in Berlin. Could not give less of a shit about boybands.

No animosity. If they're doing their thing and banging prime pussy while making money, hey more power to them.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-03-28T15:27:26+00:00

When I was a teenager, my friends and I all thought boy bands were super faggy and gay. We were usually into indie rock and guitars, or drugs and raves, like the idea of performing a coordinated dance with a bunch of other dudes, I just can’t even

Now as an adult I don’t really ever think about boy bands. I guess a couple of the songs are like “big hits” or whatever. I have no idea who the current boy bands are, and probably the only person I know from the boy bands of my era is Justin Timberlake. Actually he’s a pretty good performer from what I’ve seen now, idk I why I didn’t give him more credit when I was younger

Nobodykers · 2019-03-28T15:30:50+00:00

I never understood the bieber hate. Didnt understand it when i was 18, dont understand it now.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-03-28T16:05:28+00:00

I have absolutely no idea what "teenage heartthrobs" you're talking about and what men are so outraged about them.

ilptrandom · 2019-03-28T17:45:48+00:00

Sometimes it would be jealousy that the girl doesn't like them. Sometimes it would be memories of having been rejected at that age. For the ones with daughters it might be the fear of their daughter developing sexually.

beachredwhine · 2019-03-28T18:19:43+00:00

Omg I thought it was Justin Timberlake. Ahhhh to be old.

Well he did go insane the very last timbo video I'll ever watch my God. The sanpacku eyes. Just watch

Anyway nah sorry I mean I hate to break it to you all. All you guys who just can't take it. I mean those guys do make them feel safe. But other guys make them feel dirty

cxj · 2019-03-28T19:10:00+00:00

I have literally never heard of any male past age 14 hating on Justin Bieber etc. I don’t think males past age 20 or so even know who teenage girl heart throbs are tbh.

Normal men are attracted to tits and ass regardless of age. It’s the secondary sex characteristics they’re into not the number indicating when she was born.

No it’s not reasonable to bang 13 year old girls because they’re developed but being attracted to them isn’t pedo either. Being attracted to child like traits is pedo IE 5 year olds

subgamer90 · 2019-03-28T20:39:04+00:00

I think men have a built in natural disgust for weakness and feminine men. And on some level some of these teenage singers and actors might be perceived as not having worked hard enough or being man enough to get all the success and pussy they're getting.

Personally I'm glad for JB or whoever else that's famous, good for them. I think women are the ones who hate younger women more than men hate younger men though. Women are always jealous and afraid of their man upgrading to a younger woman lol

MagicGainbow · 2019-03-29T04:16:25+00:00

while women's preferences keep evolving as they age it got me thinking

Is it a natural evolution or is it just a case of not being able to attract the guys they used to?

GamingYourMom · 2019-03-29T04:59:08+00:00

Nah, men were tougher back in the day. It's a literal drop in test.

TheReformist94 · 2019-03-29T12:12:18+00:00

Youre lack of awareness of what nature granted you is gross and entitled

jdog2050 · 2019-04-01T18:20:00+00:00

Well, I don't think this is THE reason, but ephebophilia is kind of hard-baked into humanity. If men couldn't be attracted to women who are biologically ready to give birth, humanity literally wouldn't have survived major choke points throughout history (volcanic eruptions, tribes breaking away to form new tribes, on and on).

But where there's a problem is in degrees of life complexity. Ultimately it's not OK for a 25 year old to be attracted to a 15 year old romantically because the complexity of their lives is just too different. These days a 25 year old could be dealing with a mortgage, paying taxes, maybe even owning a business. 99% of 15 year olds are nowhere near that.

Whereas in the past...even 120 years ago...the lives of a 25 year old and 15 year old wouldn't be that different.

But you ARE getting into an interesting question as to why it's backsliding. Like, I don't think it's a secret that ephebophilia-via-jailbait porn is exploding today in the same way that transexual porn blew up 15 years ago.

In my opinion it's because millenials are so infantalized (by society and by the economy) that when you've got a 25 year old guy living in the basement...well, he never improves or matures. So to him being physically AND romantically attracted to teens makes too much sense. Like it's still the ideal to them because they haven't mentally gone anywhere.

So where does it go from here? I think society needs to have an honest discussion about ephebophilia. We need to admit that physically it's normal, but culturally and mentally it's wrong because it's a power imbalance. If you're older than 20 and teenagers are your romantic ideal, then you're immature as fuck and need to grow up. You should be so far advanced mentally that a teenager has nothing to offer you.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-03-28T10:57:17+00:00

supersede · 2019-03-28T11:30:46+00:00

nope.

men bond by taunting. when men get together, we literally make fun of everything, and everyone - inclusive of people in the group, and people external to the group too.

healthy grown men are not upset, they are just going to continue to shit on anyone and everyone.

[deleted] · 2019-03-28T10:51:09+00:00

IMO they're either attracted to them or just plain jealous (or both)

Title	Is Ephebophilia the reason grown men shit on male teenage heartthrobs so much?
Author	nevomintoarce
Upvotes	118
Comments	266
Date	March 28, 2019 8:53 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/b6gecm/is_ephebophilia_the_reason_grown_men_shit_on_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-ephebophilia-the-reason-grown-men-shit-on-male.256567 https://theredarchive.com/post/256567

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