Question about The Wall

reluctantly_red · 2018-08-19T21:30:34+00:00

The wall is about population dynamics not individuals. People age differently but its the mean that matters. As a cohort ages the relationship power shifts from women toward men. When a cohort is in their 20s the women are in high demand so they get to call the shots. As the cohort moves through their 30s the relative demand shifts. By the time the cohort is in their 40s the men are in higher relative demand so they get to call the relationship shots.

What this does not mean is that middle aged guys are able to pull hot 20 something women. All it means is that it is easier for a 40 something guy to get a date with a woman from his cohort than it was when he was 20 something.

Jrobalmighty · 2018-08-19T22:44:01+00:00

There's so many aspects to this and in general most of these comments are hinting at truth.

I'm going to keep things simple so don't think bc I leave out info I can't/won't defend it. Just be intellectually honest here.

All of these things are on average and not absolutes.

Women are on a clock more so than a man
Women care more about having children
Women care more about being in a LTR
Women are generally attracted to someone older (not old per se but the appeal is in maturity in general)
Women's looks are valuable if only bc men value them so highly. (So even if women don't care, a woman's beauty is highly valued by me )
Men find younger women more attractive in general (ex: take the same woman at 25 and 35 and more men would choose the 25 version)
Women would generally take the 35 yo version of the same man (even if for factors other than appearance/ see maturity, social status, career growth, and a 35 yo is more gentle and caring bc he appears less aggressive and promiscuous thus more monogamous
May be unfair but men's bodies fade with lack of testosterone which doesn't happen as drastic until mid late 40s
Women's bodies become affected almost immediately by having children.

I'm not saying me personally but as much as everyone hates it there's truth to it. There's no advantage in being dishonest on this point. See point #6

Men and women change their perspectives based on all of these factors and you get a myriad of outcomes that become exponential and I'm not going to type a thesis.

The same truth that men have to accept that women don't, in general, find small scrawny, short, weak or fat men as attractive as their counterparts...... there's the truth women must accept that yes there is a wall that comes for them early than men (on average.)

Don't shoot the messenger. Now as a man I do have to admit I find more parts of a woman's personality more attractive now, 30s, than I did in my 20s.

I date girls in their 20s, 30s and 40s and I'm much more intellectually satisfied with the mature women.

However, we're not talking about intellectual satisfaction we're talking about SMV and attractiveness.

Fair has nothing to do with it. It's just nature/nurture among less hairy apes.

cxj · 2018-08-20T01:25:12+00:00

Roosh hit the nail on he head with this piece regarding the wall. Pretty much my thoughts exactly .

Willow-girl · 2018-08-19T21:12:37+00:00

'The Wall' is an illusion created by a quite natural phenomenon, and that is that while most people are single at 18, a high percentage are married by 30. So at 18, a woman's prospective dating pool contains many more men than it does at 30. This is coupled with the fact that men prefer to date women their own age or younger. So an 18-y.-o. woman will have prospective partners ranging from ages 12-80, while a 30-y.-o. probably is limited to men from about 25-35. So, yes, her options are more limited, but not in the tragic ways RP implies. It's simply a numbers game.

abaxeron · 2018-08-19T21:11:11+00:00

Does the wall hit everyone?

No; the Wall is the term coined specifically to describe female box-shaped reproductive window. Men are fertile pretty much for their entire lives.

Of course we all get old (duh) but only shallow, self absorbed women are truly getting SCREWED by the wall.

You can be as virtuous and well-mannered as you wish; if your childhood dream was a family with 8 kids and you waited until 40 to start thinking about finding a husband, kiss your dream goodbye.

y'all act like it's over for these women and it's not.

We're simply mocking their coping, when they start writing retarded "men are intimidated by strong, independent 40-year-old me" op-eds in the press.

wtknight · 2018-08-19T22:45:51+00:00

Yes, the wall hits everyone, but it hits some women very slowly. A woman in her 30's almost always is not going to be as desirable as she was in her 20's, even if she is still desirable to men who are close to her age. This is the wall.

ReformedTomboy · 2018-08-20T01:34:39+00:00

The wall exists but is drastically over stated and dramatized to make certain males feel better about being ignored. To bad that 30 year can just go find a 40 year old lol.

Truedemocracy4 · 2018-08-19T22:12:18+00:00

Every woman or man will reach a point where they fade in the other collective genders eyes as a whole. Since men and women are valued for different things (women being looks, youth, fertility) then their wall is indeed much earlier AND much steeper. However, since men are valued for their ability to procure resources, lead, etc. then the fact is a very large minority of men have virtually no value at all and are far beneath even a post wall woman. So this isn't some "men win in the end!" trope you often see by salty MGTOWers. This is the case for many men (those the RP aspire to be) but NOT the average.

But yes, the wall hits everyone. Now, it hit's everyone at certain times and with certain severity. Take Stacy, your typical party girl. Loves tequila on weekends, has a tramp stamp, enjoys tanning beds, etc. This girl when young would be valued highly but that kind of behavior (not taking care of skin, long nights, shitty personality, alcohol abuse) will absolutely STEAMROLL you as you hit your late 20s and into your 30s. This is the typical 'cock carousel 30 and alone' woman that RP mocks. This type of woman is in the minority overall but easy to find. She will struggle mightily to secure attention from the men she once was able to as they move on to younger party girls or settle down themselves.

Now maybe take Megan. Always naturally attractive, partied in college but prefers Yoga class and farmers market to being at a bar at 3am most weekends. Doesn't rely heavily on makeup, takes care of herself, etc. she can maintain her looks into her 30s and yes even 40s. That said she still PEAKS in attractiveness likely in her early to mid 20s at some point, but instead of a wall with a cliff it's more like a steady decline. If she was smart she would cash her chips in and settle down around that age but can still court interesting partners at a later age. However, now with the biological clock ticking she loses a lot of leverage in relationships she once would have.

Finally take Lisa. She struggled with weight her entire life but in her 30s finally committed to an active lifestyle and good diet. She lost a ton of weight and feels better than she's ever felt. Her personal peak is actually into her 30s, post wall. All things equal she would still peak earlier, but her major life change has made her a better dating candidate.

This is mostly SMV. A woman can increase her RMV in other ways later in life to offset look declines.

disposableboyfriend · 2018-08-19T20:25:34+00:00

You're not lying. You just don't get it.

Men don't just like to "start fresh". Men are biologically pre-programmed to find younger women more attractive, by a very large margin. When you throw a child into the picture, things become even more difficult, because men do not like to invest resources into other men's children, due to similar biological pre-programming. Call men shallow. Call men assholes. It doesn't change anything.

It's not a question of whether only some women get screwed by the wall. They all do. It's a question of how much. Unmarried, less than attractive single mothers get screwed the most. But even married women get hit too. Men (and people in general) and biologically pre-programmed to be nicer to attractive people.

It's not a question of certainties. You will surely be able to find some 33-year old single mother who managed to find the man of her dreams and lived happily ever after. You may even yell out "Ah-hah!" at that point. It won't prove what you are claiming. It's a question of probabilities. With every year, the advantages that a woman has due to her young age decrease, and with that, all kinds of opportunities become less likely. And in mid-thirties, looks and fertility start decreasing at a rapidly accelerating pace. That's the wall.

LeJacquelope · 2018-08-20T08:46:56+00:00

The wall doesn't exist. It's a pathetic coping mechanism / revenge fantasy for men.

briarrose268 · 2018-08-20T06:48:48+00:00

The wall exists for women. This is the trade I think women should make: I have been loyal to the same guy since I was 18. I give him exclusive access to my youthful body in my 20s, he marries me and gives me and our children exclusive access to his resources in his 30s and beyond. This is the kind of deal women should be making with men.

What men don’t understand is that the reason there is no wall for them, is because they were born post-wall. Their desirability will never be on the same level as a young woman’s.

I am 23 right now and literally every man wants me. Men from 14 - 80 state at me on the street, at the gym, in restaurants, and many approach when I am alone. I am treated exceptionally well by every man I meet. I’m pretty sure any man would fuck me if they had the chance if there were no other consequences - that’s how male desire works, after all. What woman wants to be that desirable her whole life? Even after she is married with children? Not many, that’s for sure.

Unfortunately, men will never experience desirability on this level because they were born post-wall and their desirability rests on many factors beyond just looks.

Some men will literally never be desired by any women. Attractive women in their prime are desired by literally ever man and even fat, ugly women can get dates their 20s.

YaAmar · 2018-08-19T21:41:06+00:00

Women who are attractive in their youth usually take care of themselves as they age, and by the time they enter their 30s, they can look really good still. When I was 20 I met a 35 year old woman that easily passed for early 20s, because she had a good diet, she'd do physical exercise often she never smoked in her life, and she took proper care of her skin.

And I've known 18 year old women who didn't age well because they have a terrible diet, they are always out on the sun without protection, and they smoke and drink.

Women don't drop out of being desired by men. Yes, yes, hordes of men won't be chasing after them, but it's not like attractive young women are getting pulled over and given 1000000 numbers from dudes. No matter how much the red losers - sorry pillers, say that's how the life of a young, attractive woman is.

Now, the thing is, red pillers are a collection of neo-nazis, nerdy-young men, and middle-aged men who wish they could be 18 years old and fuck 18 year old women. What they say doesn't amount to much because it comes from a place of bitterness and envy.

They're angry that the relatively attractive women that they call stacy, and the pretty normal men that they call Chad, got to do what they wanted while they sat on the corner playing chess or whatever, and so they came up with the top 20% and bottom 80% nonsense and the wall, to make themselves feel that there's nothing wrong with themselves, and that one day those nasty young women who rejected their greasy, overweight, balding, ugly faces for unpleasant casual sex will get theirs!

hammerhaunts · 2018-08-19T20:04:40+00:00

The wall hits everyone because all looks fade.

EsauTheRed · 2018-08-19T20:55:07+00:00

Yeah it all depends on an individual woman's circumstance, if you have a horrible personality and put 0 effort into your relationships at a time when the opposite sex's libidos are waning while you are simultaneously aging and becoming less attractive, and due to asymmetry your same-age opposite sex peers don't experience the drop in options with age like you do or even physically age the same, you are going to have a bad time

Meshakhad · 2018-08-19T23:38:58+00:00

The Wall is a massive barrier of mostly ice stretching across the northern border of the Seven Kingdoms, separating it from the wild lands beyond. The Wall is one hundred leagues long (three hundred miles) and reaches over seven hundred feet at his highest point, although some foundation blocks in hilly regions, such as near Greyguard, send it nine hundred feet in the air.

Nu_Guy · 2018-08-20T04:06:50+00:00

I think this is common sense.

The wall hits everyone, but people with higher SMV are deemed attractive for longer in general.

For instance; 40 year old Jennifer Aniston vs 18 year old Rosie O'Donnell?

ItsOverBoyosLDAR · 2018-08-20T06:15:15+00:00

The wall might hit everyone eventually but it hits women earlier and harder provided men take care of themselves. Women's SMV is completely based on looks and the gradual loss of them just can't be compensated for in any meaningful way. In their 30's women's skin starts to wrinkle and look like shit in general, they get fat, their hair gets thinner and loses its shine, everything starts to sag and they just lose the glow.

Whenever I see a young, attractive, glowing early 20s woman pass by a 30 something post-wall female, I can see the hate, anger, despair and hopelessness in the older female's facial expression. It's a reminder that her tour is truly over. A signal that there is absolutely no way that she could ever compete with the far more aesthetic and younger woman. A true sight to behold.

Uncommon_Sense_12345 · 2018-08-19T20:28:09+00:00

Hi fellow southerner. How's it goin'?

The men are more angry about the fine ass Stacies givin' it away for free to Chads becuz she wouldn't date 'em while they didn't have a pot to piss in.

Then when Chad dumps her skank hoe ass, because all Chad was doin' was slumming, now she goes lookin' for Mr. Right who played by the rules, the same guy she passed over back in the day.

So whatcha got with TRP wall theory is a little bit ov truth and a whole lotta revenge fantasy.

kandyapplez · 2018-08-20T00:47:43+00:00

considering most women are already married before they hit the wall of course it only impacts a certain number of women (to the extent of being "screwed" by it at least). redpillers have a habit of talking about women as if we are all still single and freewheeling by the time the wall hits enough to dramatically reduce our quality of life which just isn't true. very few women are still dating and "competing" at 35+, and thats especially true for attractive women.

themormonchurch · 2018-08-19T20:21:18+00:00

Would you agree that this wall only hits a certain subset of women?

no

If you have other redeeming qualities, you're not going to fall off the face of the earth and become unlovable and invisible to men after age 30

then you probably would have gotten married already

play it safe get your asses hitched in your 20's ladies. don't press your luck

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Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-08-19T20:10:41+00:00

bonusfruit · 2018-08-19T22:35:00+00:00

Some hit it hard. Some approach it gracefully. Some attempt to scale it. But the wall is the wall nonetheless

newName543456 · 2018-08-20T09:46:58+00:00

Looks still wane whether you used them to get by or not. Having other qualities will make your life better in many ways, but won't affect sexual/LTR prospects dwindling regardless. You don't go from 100 to 0 overnight, but prospects go down and down as times goes on.

AllahHatesFags · 2018-08-20T19:14:49+00:00

It hits everyone; when it hits a given person is determined by their genetics and lifestyle.

Pathetic_Lifeform · 2018-08-21T11:29:49+00:00

Nah, the wall doesn't hit everyone. I am 30 now and the women who were hot at 20 are still hot at 30. The women who hit "the wall" typically don't work out, have a bad diet, smoke, spend too much time tanning etc. Saggy breasts, bad skin etc is a combination of genetics and self-care.

deepfatthinker92 · 2018-08-28T12:38:14+00:00

> but if you're shallow, you're going to wither up and disappear because no one wants to be around you.

Not just shallow but so shallow that nobody wants to put up with your shit when you can find a pretty one that can do the same.

That I feel is the decider lol.

blackedoutfast · 2018-08-19T21:39:25+00:00

Would you agree that this wall only hits a certain subset of women?

no. ALL WOMEN HIT THE WALL.

Women who use their looks to get by and only derive their self worth from being pretty.

ALL women use their looks to get by and their value is based entirely on how pretty they are.

If you have other redeeming qualities...

you don't.

men don't care about your career. men don't care about your degree. men don't care that you like to travel or paint or drink wine. men don't care that you're supposedly a good conversationalist or that your sarcastic sense of humor makes people laugh. men don't care that you're opinionated or confident or smart.

here's the truth: men only pretend to care about those things because we're trying to fuck you.

WOMEN care about those characteristics in MEN. WOMEN incorrectly believe that since they care about more than a man's looks, then men must care about moee than a woman's looks. but this is female solipsism and it's incorrect.

a woman's appearance is the only thing that matters. and ALL women hit the wall. your looks absolutely will decline as you age. your value to men absolutely will decline as you age. and you cannot mitigate this by having an interesting personality or by being ambitious and hard working at work.

if you don't believe me, just go ask some of the millions of educated, ambitious, successful, interesting CareerWomen who thought they could do exactly what you're talking about. and now that they're post-wall, they're depressed and lonely and broken because they can't find a decent man who wants to be with them.

ALL WOMEN HIT THE WALL

Nodoxxintoxin · 2018-08-19T23:00:08+00:00

Saying this as a bluish purple who married at 35, the biological clock is of course very real. If you want more than one child then you need to hurry up. Lots of women easily get pregnant at 40, lots don’t.

At 33, If you are looking at a dating pool 36 to 40, your competition is less with younger women than it is divorced women with kids. Most 38 year old guys would rather a childless 33 year old than a single mom 30 year old. The downside is there will be a lot of single dads and confirmed bachelors in the mix.

The huge upside is if you marry later, you are way way way less likely to divorce. https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx

LooksSafeFromFarAway · 2018-08-19T21:41:41+00:00

How hard is it exactly to get married after 30 for women? Are there stats on this, because this is one RP thing that I've never seen confirmed in life. Hell I've seen multiple marriages after 30 for women, both with and without kids from the prior marriage and kids in the subsequent one. I'm not disagreeing with looks inevitably fading with age, I just am not seeing age as the handicap it's so often described as here.

stacysmom40 · 2018-08-20T01:50:49+00:00

I married a hot doctor when I was 36. He’s younger than me. I would say we are both quite attractive. We both had kids from prior relationships. Still going strong 4 years later.

TRP is all about generalizations. AWALT, for example. There are exceptions. Loads of them.

Workaholico · 2018-08-19T20:21:57+00:00

but only shallow, self absorbed women are truly getting SCREWED by the wall. Women who use their looks to get by and only derive their self worth from being pretty. If you have other redeeming qualities, you're not going to fall off the face of the earth and become unlovable and invisible to men after age 30, but if you're shallow, you're going to wither up and disappear because no one wants to be around you. Tell me I'm lying.

Yes, and no, think over it again.

First 2 of the major atributes that men look for is someone to have childrem with and have sex with, it is not the sole reason, nor they are more than 50% of the variance but they are certainly in the major atributes.

Second, men also get more power into the MV with age, as they enrichen and they prefer younger women.

Third, even if the guy accepts a woman good on "alternative attributes" they have to be extremely high to compensate lack of sexual interest and childbearing.

So in conclusion men technically can choose other women with other attributes except looks and ability to childbear. But they will be competing with younger women with the same attributes, so it will not be as easy of a task as once was. Yes, bad personality women will have a way harder time, but it is not like the good personality ones will have it easy either. They will just have it easier.

If you're a good person, someone will find you. :-)

Thats the lie blue pill like to tell, dont believe it. If you are a good person you will just have a easier time than a complete douche/cunt without any SMV value, everyone else will be higher in priority, you need to work to get someone, not only "be good".

Does the wall hit everyone?

Well age hits everyone, but to lose so much of their value that they can be compared to hitting a literal wall based on age, its more of a woman thing. Men hit walls when they lose money, power or looks abruptly but by n large they tend to lose slowly with age.

Title	Question about The Wall
Author	Skratt
Upvotes	20
Comments	225
Date	August 19, 2018 7:59 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/98n2kv/question_about_the_wall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-about-the-wall.261107 https://theredarchive.com/post/261107

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