Q4Women: Would you want to date a man who reads TRP theory and takes it seriously?

BrownEyedENFP · 2017-01-25T00:25:23+00:00

Would any women here want a man who takes TRP theory seriously and actively reads it's content and believes it? Is this just losing in the SMP to be with...

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You miss the nuance of it.

When he's at the top of his game, you will be all that 100%. Men are finding, that once he's sick, dying etc, then it tends to become more conditional.

A lot of guys work in hospitals, paramedics, doctors, nurses. They see it time and time again, once that former alpha husband is sick and weak, wifey tends to distance herself, and look for a narrative to keep her social reputation intact.

A lot of guys also have this madonna whore complex, and expecting a girl to see you as lover, and provider is wrong as well.

End of the day, girls hate the language, but it's purpose is to align expectations with reality. If you see value in a guy, today, tomorrow etc. He provides tingles, and is a high value man, you will continue to 'act right' as you describe.

When that's gone, don't be surprised if you start having more problems with the little things that never bothered you before, or if all of a sudden you aren't 'happy'

That's the other part. It's never the reason, it's always 'coincidentally' happens just before some real issue pops up that endangers a girls love and respect.

Burden or performance, once a guy accepts it, he can start to appreciate women for what they are, and not what he wants, or is told they should be.

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And you're a great girl for it, it's too bad they don't make you the model, I think they stopped around our grandparents age. Hell, Mine were just like that, and Romeo (my grandfather) died 30 days after his wife did...

Those days are over for men... I'd probably have followed in his footsteps if I thought there was any hope of it still being there. Baptist minister, farmer... 3rd generation salt of the earth, who wouldn't want that dream?

Don't make em like they used to

Also, you seem to think I'm somehow dismissing shitty behavior from guys. Far from it, and when I start fucking guys, I will start to be concerned with how they act in a relationship with me.

1 and 2 are probably 100% right, and I'm sure you can have a great talk on redpillwives, or redpillwomen on how to work with that knowledge, I wouldn't fight you on it.

Here's something to think about. If RP men took the proper amount of time to find some balance, point out all shitty male qualities too, we would be constantly looking for equivalents everywhere, instead of focusing on what we are there to do. Strategize in the modern marketplace, and what to do about a lack of positive male identities in the west.

Personally, I would love it if every TRP 'complaint' was 100% across the board for women and men, empathy would be a lot easier.

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What you're describing is an owner/pet relationship, or a parent/child relationship.

No, what I am describing is what I am describing. Your still trying to resolve cognitive dissonance.

so for me it's impossible to feel "better about myself and the relationship in general".

Why is it impossible to feel better about yourself and relationships in general?

I have to feel equal to my partner socially/economically/etc and that they don't see me in a condescending light like I were their pet or small child

You say it yourself - you have to feel the way you want to feel.

If you feel the way you want to feel, are you going to give that feeling up and be with someone who doesn't make you feel the way you want to feel at the same level because you find out you disagree with how they view you?

You'd rather be less happy with someone who agrees with you than more happy with someone who doesn't agree with you? You think agreement is the key to happiness?

I would rather be single than experience either of the relationships you described

So, you would rather be right than happy? Doesn't surprise me - most humans operate like that. One of the unfortunate paradoxes of the human condition.

You're perfectly normal, but I would recommend finding ways to break free of that constraint. It's almost never worth it, IME.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I treated you better than any person has ever treated you and made you feel better about yourself and relationships in general

That's commendable, a true honor to have known a person like that. They genuinely care and respect me, then.

you eventually learned that I saw you as 'lesser'

This person has now shown me their true colors. I will now see their previous and current actions colored by the knowledge that they don't consider me capable of showing love, having empathy, or being logical. I will see all of their support, love, and affection as manipulative because no person can claim to love someone without also respecting them. You can't respect people you see as lesser.

Why is it impossible to feel better about yourself and relationships in general?

Because acknowledging that they see me as intrinsically different or worse than them would lead me to question myself and the relationship. Questioning someone's love for me does not make me feel better.

You'd rather be less happy with someone who agrees with you than more happy with someone who doesn't agree with you? You think agreement is the key to happiness?

Agreement on my humanity is a key to my happiness, yes. Agreeing that I am a full human being with thoughts and feelings that are not lesser than his is a key to my happiness.

You say it yourself - you have to feel the way you want to feel.

Relationships are based on feelings.

So, you would rather be right than happy?

It's not a question about being right, it's a question of compatibility. I doubt you could marry or love a woman who saw herself as your equal and believed in feminism. I cannot be happy with a man that believes my core biology defines me and considers me as a lesser person because of it.

It is that simple.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ah, you're being funny ITT, lol. Twisting and turning every which way.

This person has now shown me their true colors.

Their actions did not?

I will now see their previous and current actions colored by the knowledge that they don't consider me capable of showing love, having empathy, or being logical.

And where was that included in my hypothetical? You're adding all kinds of stuff in an attempt to move goalposts.

You can't respect people you see as lesser.

True, generally. You can still treat them with respect, though. There's a big difference.

I truly respect very few people in this world, and even fewer in a comprehensive sense. Asking me to do otherwise is to ask for special treatment that is likely unwarranted.

Agreement on my humanity is a key to my happiness, yes.

Okay. That's not the kind of agreement I was referring to, of course, given that 'humanity' isn't in my hypothetical anywhere.

Agreeing that I am a full human being with thoughts and feelings that are not lesser than his is a key to my happiness.

So, are you prepared to accept that all of my thoughts and feelings are equal to yours? What if my thoughts and feelings where that you were subhuman? Are those thoughts and feelings of the same value as your thoughts and feelings?

Relationships are based on feelings.

Of course. You seem to be advocating that they are based on what the other person is thinking in their head.

It's not a question about being right, it's a question of compatibility.

That's your question. That wasn't my question. You still haven't answered my question.

I doubt you could marry or love a woman who saw herself as your equal and believed in feminism.

Sure I could. Why would you make such a ridiculous claim?

I cannot be happy with a man that believes my core biology defines me and considers me as a lesser person because of it.

Again, not part of my original hypothetical, but let's run with it.

So, you are with someone who treats you better than anyone has ever treated you, makes you happier than anyone has ever made you, and you feel better about yourself and your relationship with him (and probably with others, as well, since that is the nature of feelings) as a result.

Then you find out, maybe years down the road, that he thinks you are defined by your core biology and sees you as somehow 'lesser' (not because of it, but just 'lesser' - notice I didn't define 'lesser' in my hypothetical).

All of that superior treatment, all of those good feelings, all of the possibilities you felt you were able to fulfill, all of that is invalidated by that one thought or belief.

You would then settle for someone who does not treat you as well, who does not make you as happy, who does not make you feel as good about yourself or relationships, but who agrees with your own self-image?

And that's not sacrificing happiness for feeling validated and right?

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Having to ask for advice on basic social skills is more like a red flag though.

Leadership is not something you would necessarily pick up on your own, but if someone lacks years of social development it can be a massive red flag just like not being able to tie your shoes at twenty is.

What kind of learning disability does someone have that they aren't able to learn just from being around other people? Why haven't they been socialized properly? Why can't he pick up hints unless he gets told what to look out for?

Thing is he may learn how to act like a normal person, but when it comes down to it there's still something off about him. He may be able to pass the most common shit tests but then you are sarcastic or ironic and he doesn't know what to do unless he asks his online friends for help.

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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I think it gets down to the oft-recurring idea that something as complex and magical and irrational as attraction and love and intimacy and relationships can be affected and even improved by broad-based, rational approaches.

Everyone wants to feel special, and everyone wants to feel like their sex/love/relationship life affirms their particular brand of specialness. Everyone likes the idea of having a 'soulmate.' No one wants to think that their relationships aren't particularly unique or special.

Which is, again, not how it works for me. Intimate connection with another, while not really much of a mystery, is still pretty awe-inspiring for me.

After my son was born, I realized there is such a thing as a 'personal miracle.' My healthy, happy son being born occurred like one of the most incredible miracles in the universe. Like he is the very embodiment of God/love/beauty/whatever made flesh.

Now, I know that the fact that my wife and I birthed another human being is the very epitome of ordinary. Almost everyone, everywhere, is driven to do that very same thing, and most of them accomplish it without even thinking about it much. Several times, in some cases. So there is absolutely nothing at all special about it.

And I know that I'm instinctively programmed to invest myself so heavily into him and love him the way I do. My love for him can barely be considered 'mine'.

But knowing that does in no way diminish how much of a motherfucking miracle my son is, how much I'm in awe of the bond that we have, how overwhelmed I am by the amount of love I have for him.

Knowing how the trick works doesn't have to ruin the 'magic.'

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There are no naturals. Theres the guy who was the perfect storm of opportu ity, exposure, and genetics.

Having a certain set of genetics, coupled with a disposition towards certain interests and certain personality traits, this would qualify as "natural" in my book.

I know a particular guy whom I would unambiguously label a natural (he went to school with me from age 10 to age 19, so I can safely say that he didn't reinvent himself or such). He was reasonably good-looking (not stunningly handsome, but looks weren't his problem), was sufficiently tall (a bit shorter than me IIRC, close to 6' or something like that), slim and liked to do sports (so he was quite in shape as well), liked to play guitar, was a snowboarding trainer later on, and was a (actually really likable) sunnboy who was outgoing and confident but also shameless and hedonistic. In other words, the perfect storm for becoming a player (which he was). For a guy like that, the question wasn't which socialization he would have needed to be successful with women, but rather which socialization it would have taken for him to not become a player.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a 6'2 childhood friend, strong farmboy back, huge christian faith.

First girl he ever slept with was his wife, at 26, has 0 game.

Then in college we met a guy, nicknamed midget. 5'4, silver tongue, slept with more women than anyone I had ever met, and cute ones too.

The genetics help, but I'm not talking looks here, women aren't men, and they aren't 100% visual, like men. I don't know what the checklist of 'natural' looks like, because it's always different when I see a natural.

The key point? Someone who isn't self aware, but still sexually viable to a girl. James Franco describes the process, where a woman finds the highest quality man possible, manipulates him over time into beta behaviours, then finds another alpha male to replace him. Rollo calls it the epiphany phase, but it's there.

Women want naturals, because it's the best of both worlds. A game with great prizes, that you are rigged to win, who doesn't want the Konami Code?

I would. Hence, talking with my brothers, and building the self awareness to not lose. And luckily for me, those self aware guys are able to spread happiness around them to everyone, so my strategy ensures everyone wins.

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Meh. Its breakup is the same as any group of guys. I find the 'they are low quality' argument is looking for what you want to see.

Its a theme, any time guys get together to discuss things, women will go for access (gamer girls) or attempt to control it (shame tactics)

Men getting together to discuss things is always under threat from female influence. EVeryone here is arguing identity politics, shaming tactics etc.

I guarantee, everyones 'friend' who they outed would be perfectly datable, it's the same sexual market for everyone.

Be attractive, don't be unattractive, subscribing to a subreddit doesn't change that.

I'm in a good mood, so I'm not shit posting today, but normally, I enjoy the circle jerk in here and shoot for a Milo level of rage from mods and blue users. bloopers want to lash out anyways, so they get exactly what they want.

I've yet to see anyone in here posting their lifting 1RM, or field reports, so it's just hens clucking

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I don't even bother unless it's a receptive group.

online, it's a marketplace of ideas. IRL? no one cares, they are too busy living in their own heads. be the social dopamene rush that people are desperate for... Be entertaining, witty, and charming (so by extension, they are entertaining, witty, and charming by talking with you) appeal to peoples ego's vanities, and reflect whatever aspirational 'self' they think they are.

The rest is transactions, getting what you want, and offering what they ask in return.

Fuck, it sounds like a monkey dancing for quarters when I put it like that. Funnily enough, I'm an introvert, even though no one believes it to talk to me... I just got good at a job I don't particularily like.

no one IRL knows anything red pill, and the most you'll get out of me is watercooler talk about trump, because Canadian tradition is to talk about american politics like we are the 11th man on the field.

It's just like the gym. Everyone afraid to work out, because everyone else is better at it. Just relax and go do it, everyone is too busy looking at themselves in the mirror to care. Even the self proclaimed "Socialite expert" In here is most likely abrasive, and fairly prickly to talk to, she's just socially isolated from guys who won't put up with it, but stick around long enough to shut it down, or fuck with her for personal entertainment.

I, on the other hand, love playing the Milo in an interaction, it's like a game. How far can I go without the other person knowing I'm doing it?

Am I not a natural, because I didn't learn any of this in a shitty rural high school? Apparently so

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Maybe.

I wouldn't want to date someone who believes "Women are shit," "Never get married or you'll get divorce-raped," "You can't be vulnerable, ever," "Sluts are worthless," "Women don't love you," or "Women have no value outside of their pussy," or someone whose goal was to spin plates. I wouldn't have a problem dating someone who lifted and was independent (not needy) and monogamous, and who had actively chosen what alpha and beta traits to cultivate in a LTR.

I will admit I'm turned off by the idea of dating someone who approached our relationship like science, but if he does it well I imagine I wouldn't notice. If every time we came up in a problem in our relationship he turned to the TRP sub -- finding out about that would kill any attraction I had. If I don't find out and somehow it works, well...

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Being a social cripple doesn't make you any stronger.

Of course not. Overcoming being a social cripple sure does, though.

Being a well rounded and well adjusted person

has nothing to do with whether they will touch bottom at some point or not.

who learns to deal with difficulties growing up and can recover from hits they take is what I'm talking about.

Which doesn't involve touching bottom how?

Having a good social network, not being ugly, having friends and girlfriends. A good family possibly.

What does that have to do with someone's resilience and ability to deal with difficulties? I would say that those people may present more of a risk for fragility and weakness, given that they have had probably more limited exposure to difficulties.

Never said people only have to go up, why take things to the extreme?

Touching the bottom means experiencing failures and breakdowns, maybe many of them. I don't know many who are truly moving up who don't experience those, sometimes dramatically, on the way. Play big games, take big losses...

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there learn ~~how to act~~

No. Learn how to live life for himself.

losing all awe and admiration for women and relationships.

Awe and admiration for women and relationships is why these men touch the bottom and reach TRP.

Blues constantly tell us that women are just people, with flaws and foibles just like men. Women aren't deserving of "awe and admiration", and frankly don't want it. Most women KNOW they aren't deserving of awe and admiration. After learning the truth about men and women, I can safely say that NO ONE deserves awe and admiration.

There's nothing special about relationships either, such that they should be accorded the accolades you claim they should. Women end decades long relationships at the drop of a hat for some new dick. Do they treat relationships with "awe and admiration"?

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Why do you think they encourage men not to talk about fight club?

Not only.

People have that tendency to over validate women's opinion and standards.

People have that tendency to think that you're a worthless human being for not having a similar opinion than them.

It's not a big problem when the subject is light, but when it comes to sex and genders, people become nazis. You just don't talk about things outside of society's standards, people will think you're a monster for ever thinking logically without the social construct in the way.

TRP is not anti-woman, TRP is against putting women in the center of your focus. TRP isn't anti-love, TRP claims that nobody loves like you love them.

The problem with TRP is never TRP, but their users, if you trust someone to be objective and having a sharp spirit, there'll be no problem with that person reading TRP. I read TRP, I am married and all, when I talked about these controversial things to her, she just brushed it off like it was just a phase and that she's the one manipulating me... :p

[–]darla100 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

It's the same argument than guns actually. Except you can't accidentally kill people with TRP.

A tool is not right or wrong, it's just a tool, tool will be used right or wrong, but tools won't make it so bad people use them bad. Bad people will find a way to use any tool badly.

When you say RP believes 'nobody loves you like you love them' what do you mean exactly? Doesn't RP claim that women are incapable of real love?

Yes RP claim that women are incapable of real love, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't accept the way they love you. It's very realistic, the formulation is just too hard for most people to handle. You can't expect anyone to love you unconditionally no matter what you do, that's not healthy. TRP tells you that if you stagnate or if you get worse, your LTR will eventually leave you, it's only logical. The thing to understand is the BP stuff we're served such as true love and soul mates isn't a thing. Most people will tell you that is obvious, but some people need to hear it raw, because even if I knew since for ever that soul mates isn't a thing, I was still bitter that nobody was giving me the love I thought I deserve.

I don't read womanosphere.

You probably do read stupid shit from other women one way or another. We all do.

[–]darla100 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Yes RP claim that women are incapable of real love.

That sentence makes me cringe, unless.....you are implying that men are also incapable of 'real love'. And by your description, you are saying 'real love' is unconditional love? Like a mother has for her baby? In that case, then yes, Romantic love is unlike love that a mother has for her child. It is not unconditional. For instance, I still love my ex husband, I always will. But he refused to get a job and I had to support him for years and now pay alimony. I left him because he couldn't get his shit together and then betrayed me. But I still love him. In that case you are right, romantic love dies if it's not tended properly. But it isn't just exclusive to women. Men stop loving their fat lazy wives too. They may not file for divorce, but they cheat and check out. And plenty do in fact file for divorce. So.....in conclusion, yes, romantic love is conditional. But it is conditional for both men and women, not just women. The Greeks had 6 different names for love. One for each type.

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I admit that I don't truly know what to think about it :p It resonates to some experience I had but it fails to explain everything to me, that's how I read TRP.

Even if from afar it would mean that men love women more, it mainly mean that men are weak by nature, that we have that tendency to put women on that pedestal and make them pass before us. It's in no way romantic as you women would like it to be, it's weird as fuck, at some point in my life I told myself "I don't care who she loves or who she has sex with, I just want her to be happy" doesn't it sound wrong to you? I've seen SOME men thinking like this often, not so much about women. Rest of people have the possession aspect included in love.

I can't tell which is right or wrong or which is true love and not. Society decided that true unconditional love was the right thing because it's the one that benefits the most society anyway.

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Women's attraction and feelings are flimsy regardless of whether the person they're with hates women or not. Gay relationships have the lowest break-up rates regardless of whether they hate women or not, so I don't see how that's relevant and why you can't praise their relationship. Why aren't you going around telling your straight male friends to stay away from women? Why aren't you telling women to stay away from men, since they're likely to hurt him?

Like I said, I'll stay away from the CRAPPY women, by saying "no, stay away from all women", you're absolutely attacking me. How am I gonna reproduce if I stay away from all women? You're basically saying I shouldn't reproduce.

For someone who's so open about reporting people a lot on this forum, you sure do attack people a lot yourself, albeit, in a passive aggressive manner.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why aren't you going around telling your straight male friends to stay away from women?

they don't have issues with women.

Why aren't you telling women to stay away from men, since they're likely to hurt him?

they aren't likely to hurt him.

Like I said, I'll stay away from the CRAPPY women, by saying "no, stay away from all women", you're absolutely attacking me. How am I gonna reproduce if I stay away from all women? You're basically saying I shouldn't reproduce.

i didn't bring it up or even think about it, but since you did... no, i don't think that you should. or rather, that you don't seem like someone who is ready for parenthood. there's always sperm banks if you're just interested in reproduction though.

For someone who's so open about reporting people a lot on this forum, you sure do attack people a lot yourself, albeit, in a passive aggressive manner.

you asked if women were a bad choice; i just answered your question. don't ask if you don't want answers.

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TRPers, married or not, are only interested in maximizing their own gains at the expense of everyone else in some weird vendetta to get back what they feel was stolen from them. married TRPers are typically men who are trying to drastically alter their relationship dynamics to extract what they want from their wife, no matter what problems or pain it might bring for her.

TRPers who aren't married range from rabid woman haters to people who are really into a traditional relationship dynamic or need to be "captain", and i have no interest in any of it. i want someone i can trust and talk to, not some buffoon who needs to feel superior to me and fight me all the time. even the TRPers who aren't as extreme here talk about their partners, wives, and even kids in an "under my thumb" sort of way despite being together for years. that is not appealing to me. in fact, it would be short-lived and miserable for us both; why bother?

what you have described as a TRPer sounds nice, but it is not accurate. also, i don't want kids, so if the guy's goal is to have a family then we're already off to a bad start. you're making the mistake, intentionally or not, of equating TRP with nothing but self improvement and having hobbies when that's not remotely exclusive to TRP or something that people have an issue with on its own.

[–]Eastuss points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well being alpha/beta isn't a binary thing, you share traits of both. Your partner can be emotionally connected and into oneitis but be alpha on the other aspects. As you said, he's confident in who he is and doesn't worry about what other people think, that's the minimal shit to make you desirable to women IMO.

At some point, lifting is not so much about getting muscular and good looking, but also about getting the right mentality, if you don't lift but have somewhat a strong mentality, it's already good.

I'm a skinny fat small computer engineer. I started having success with women when I actually became confident and careless about other's. I am loving and caring for my wife, but I won't let her step on my opinions, I won't play gentle just to avoid conflict with her. Women hate men that will do the last, really, they have a detector for that.

[–]Justapasserby5571 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Valid points, but I'd add that confidence is desirable by both sexes. I know one of the things that attracts him to me is that I also am strong in my opinions and know who I am, it just happens that we share most of the same values and opinions.

I think the main thing about RP that bothers me, is that it insinuates that women want to be coddled, that we're all immature and just want a man to make decisions for us until we have an opportunity to leave him for another man. So to be "alpha", you have to be the captain or something like that.

I make more money than my boyfriend, but it doesn't matter. We're equal partners in our relationship, so I still consult him when I want to buy something with my money and vice versa. I know I can be more forceful and seek conflict more than he does, but that doesn't bother me either. He brings different strengths to our relationship, and tells me when it's not a good time to pick a fight with someone.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the thing you should understand from trp is more that it's vital for men to be mature and have strong personality traits but not for women.

in the sens that those traits are part of men smv, but not women, it's RMV for women.

so, women will want a leader, ect... because that is part of man's smv and is important to the core. that doesn't mean you're not a functional adult leadt capable than men.

from experience, women will more easily more often more subtly let their emotions guide them and it'll be accepted. a man break down is generally not accepted. this is not even rp stuff it is common belief. trp choose to phrase those aspect harder and want it to be the default belief. you can't be disapointed when you expect the worse, that is stoicism.

trp is a big slap, it's not meant to be soft, that's why it appears so categoric and mean.

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She wasn't asking about me, she was asking why TRPers are so angry or hateful about women being like children.

She gets that I love that women are like children, that I love the opportunities offered by that, that I enjoy 'needing' to treat women like children. I want to foster that as much as possible. I literally wouldn't have it any other way.

In fact, being 'childlike' is, for me, one of the most valuable qualities a person can have, even in men, though it can sometimes be more problematic for men. I treasure childlike people.

I like feeling like a protector and provider. It's one of the few things I can do well (at least, it used to be). That role is hugely fulfilling for me.

As I've often said, the problem with 'childlike' is that it can sometimes tip into 'childish', but everything has a downside and I understand that, so I'm cool dealing with that, too.

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Title	Q4Women: Would you want to date a man who reads TRP theory and takes it seriously?
Author	BrownEyedENFP
Upvotes	15
Comments	484
Date	January 25, 2017 12:25 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5pzyuz/q4women_would_you_want_to_date_a_man_who_reads/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4women-would-you-want-to-date-a-man-who-reads-trp.270432 https://theredarchive.com/post/270432

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