CMV: If a man is short, he's pretty much invisible to women, and is bound to be doomed in dating market.

TheRealMewt · 2016-02-23T11:07:37+00:00

The fact that short men are able to get laid and have fulfilling relationships means they are in fact not invisible to women.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-02-23T13:11:52+00:00

Being short is definitely a disadvantage for men. But you aren't necessarily doomed.

You can empathize other qualities and find very short women.

joseremarque · 2016-02-23T11:48:47+00:00

I'm a short man and I'm doing just fine thank you

wtknight · 2016-02-23T13:10:07+00:00

You challenged your own point of view yourself by saying that you've never faced a problem with women regarding your height, so how can you say that short men are invisible to women? So you're not the ideal man? Get over it. The vast majority of men are not ideal men and the vast majority of women are not ideal women.

Andress1 · 2016-02-23T12:13:31+00:00

There are people with short fathers, therefore short men can propagate their genes. QED

But seriously, that's all there is to it. Short men end up with a Napoleon complex after being made fun of for their height throughout their childhood.

Because kids get excited about getting taller, young kids (4 to 6, roughly) compare height with their friends, thereby making height into a kind of competition. Then, some of them who like to be snots keep it going. And because some people grow up very, very slowly, it continues on and on for a while.

So, if you're a short guy, just forget that you're a short guy. Most of the people who made fun of you for it had terrible stuff happening to them at home and used you as an outlet. By the time you're in your thirties, nobody will care how tall you are. You live about eighty years, all goes well. You have to deal with child-minded peers for about 25% of that time, and then you should be good at avoiding them.

If you're still getting shit for your height, then get away from the children. It doesn't matter if those children are 15 or 25, if they have the mentality of 4 to 6 year olds. Find more mentally adult people to associate with. Getting down on yourself about your height is like getting mad because my sister said that Barbie could beat up Supergirl. The hell does Barbie know about kryptonite?

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T19:55:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T13:32:34+00:00

Let's face it - Short guys are screwed when it comes to dating.

They're not in the slightest. Extrapolating the fact that a majority of women will say they prefer a taller mate to the conclusion that all but the tallest of men are "fucked" in the dating market is pretty obviously absurd.

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T11:56:07+00:00

I have a friend and he's pretty short, like 5'4 or 5'5, blonde hair, average facial features, doesn't have an amazing job or income, 27 years old, lives with his dad, and his confidence is probably 7/10 on average. He has had a few long periods of being single but he's dated a substantial amount of hot girls and he's currently in a long term relationship.

Then there's me. I’m 5’11, dark hair, fairly attractive facial features, similar income, roughly the same age and I live alone. My confidence is the thing that really lets me down being probably 4/10 in large groups and 6/10 in smaller groups unless I’m with people I’m comfortable with. I don’t exactly have trouble with women but my short friend definitely excels beyond me.

It's true that most men prefer moderately big boobs to small ones

I prefer small ones to be honest. It's so disappointing when gravity destroys the illusion created by a great bra.

Shaenon · 2016-02-23T21:03:46+00:00

"It's true that most men prefer moderately big boobs to small ones, but I don't think that's a deal breaker as long as her face is pretty and she meets his other requirements (personality, how feminine she is etc)"

It's exactly the same with men and height.

You understand that "men like big boobs" doesn't mean "all men like big boobs" or "men only want big boobs" or "small boobs are repulsive" or "any man will dump his girlfriend if a women with bigger boobs comes along." Extend the same logic when women talk about their preferences.

I personally like short guys, but that's neither here nor there.

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T11:29:10+00:00

It's a bitch. But if you're average height, it really shouldn't hurt you too much. A decent chunk of women will not date guys below 6' but at the same time a decent chunk of women really don't care that much about height. It's not ideal, but there's nothing you can do about it. Can't change it man, just live with it.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2016-02-23T12:42:08+00:00

Woman with short bf chiming in here (he's 5'4)

He was never invisible to me and I never was embarrassed about his height. Here's s very handsome and fit man.

It solo depends on the women in question and if you've got other redeeming qualities.

BiggerDthanYou · 2016-02-23T11:01:52+00:00

According to studies only very short men (<5'4") have it worse on the dating market, but even those have a median partner count of 5 compared to the 7 that other men of other heights have.

wtknight · 2016-02-23T12:40:38+00:00

There are lots of women whose only requirement is that the men who they date are taller than them. As there are many women shorter than 5'7" or 5'8", it is not all doom and gloom for a guy who is this height, although there are a few very short women who inexplicably want super tall men. So it makes it a little more difficult to find a date if you are short, but definitely not impossible.

Anandya · 2016-02-23T11:52:48+00:00

Short guys to women is like fat women to guys. Only a few people actually like them, but extraordinary circumstances can make them attractive.

WhiteWitchofNarnia · 2016-02-23T13:17:45+00:00

Not for enlightened women. I dated a guy that was only about an inch taller than me and I'm 5'4". I was not terribly attracted to him in the beginning but he definitely grew on me. His height did not make a bit of difference in the course of our relationship.

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T13:43:22+00:00

particularly short guys may have a harder time, but i don't think they're invisible. there are plenty of women who don't care about height; focus on what you can change. there are some super cute short guys out there, and because those guys have good personalities, style, looks, etc. i think their height adds to their charm. there are a few 5'5" guys i think are cute; their height is a non-issue, i like it, actually.

ManRAh · 2016-02-23T22:55:33+00:00

Yes, short guys fuck, as evidenced by their short-fuck progeny still running around on Earth.

Yes, short guys do have a harder time, as evidenced by just how flippantly some women will publicly shit on them.

Overall, if you took identical twins and made one 6' and the other 5'6", the 6' would have the sexual edge (unless you fucked up his proportions). Height is an attractive feature. But being short doesn't mean being invisible. It does mean that you'll probably have to put more effort into standing out though.

As often the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[deleted] · 2016-02-24T02:19:54+00:00

The existing literature has generally found that relatively tall men (but not extremely tall men) are consistently considered more attractive to women (Courtiol et al., 2010; Salska et al., 2008; Swami et al., 2008). Interestingly, however, men’s reported sexual behavior only partially reinforced the preference data. Consistent with the idea that women prefer relatively tall men, the shortest men in the sample reported fewer partners than other men. These findings confirm that height is relevant on the mating market. Across most of the height continuum, however, there was little variation in mean or median number of reported sex partners. Further, men between 5′7″ and 6′3″ (170–191 cm) varied little in whether they had more than 5 partners, had more than 14 partners, engaged in extra-pair sex, or were currently single.

The mean and median number of sex partners for men of different heights were: very short (9.4; 5), short (11.0; 7), average (11.7; 7), tall (12.0; 7), very tall (12.1; 7), and extremely tall (12.3; 7).

Soooo based on this study, as long as you are 5'7+ you should be OK.

GridReXX · 2016-02-23T11:21:10+00:00

Date short women. Most of my short friends (5'1 ish) are dating men who are 5'6ish.

I'm 5'7 so I prefer the 5'10 range.

dragoness_leclerq · 2016-02-23T12:43:16+00:00

First of all, if you're "exactly average height" then wtf are you even complaining about? You're not short, so why are you bandwagoning onto the so-called issues and ill fates of actual short men in order whine more about women's preferences?

But to respond to the rest of your OP I guess I have to say...And? Men don't like fat women, or ugly women. And no, please don't tell be that those things can be changed unlike height because it doesn't matter. People like what the fuck they like. End of.

The preference for tall men is also about ego. Women want a tall guy so they can look good next to him in Facebook pictures,

This is purely wild conjecture. Women liked tall men before Mark Zuckerberg was even born, before the internet and before any of this social media bullshit. It's called a preference. This is literally like saying men only like attractive women with big tits so they can show them off on IG. LOL. That's a bonus, not a goal.

and so they can have some tall sons to show off.

You mean, so they can have tall, strong sons who are more likely to survive/defend themselves and their families? Like...like..I dunno, some kind of innate, biological thing? Oh no no, it's just so they can "show them off". K.

There are women who have short boyfriends

Agreed, but the number is very very low.

No, it isn't "very, very low". Plenty of short men can and do get girlfriends or wives or even have casual sex, sometimes they just have to work harder. But oh well, thems the breaks. Same is true for a lot of non-blonde, non-white women in many parts of the world.

they are not excited about that either when introducing him to her parents or girlfriends.

Objection, speculation. And furthermore, what do you even mean "not excited by"? A woman who's in love or really super into a guy is excited to introduce him to whomever, regardless of height. Because, you know...she's into him.

In fact, I've seen couple of girls who are kinda embarrassed to show off their boyfriends.

I don't believe you.

I've never faced a problem with women regarding height,

So then what the fuck are you..never mind.

but it kinda sucks to know that I can never be the ideal man (6'2") of a woman because of something I don't have any control over.

Yeah, and it kind of sucks to know I'll never be the "ideal" of a man because of something I have no control over (i.e., white, blonde, blue-eyed, Cowboys cheerleader - or something)...but like I said, thems the breaks..

cravenravens · 2016-02-23T13:12:40+00:00

I know some girls who care about that, and I don't understand them. My boyfriend is short, and that's just fine by me. I don't feel embarrassed when introducing him to people. He's smart and kind and handsome! I'm shorter than he is, but he has also dated girls who were taller than he is. I've also had one night stands with short guys. It's just one of those things I don't really care about. Neither does my sister, who is quite tall and has had shorter boyfriends.

Anandya · 2016-02-23T11:59:26+00:00

I am like 5 ft 8, seriously? At no point has my height ever stopped me from getting a date. If a woman has decided not to talk to me because of my height? I have never noticed and quite honestly?

If a woman or a man is deciding not to date someone based on something like height then they probably were not interested in anything about me to begin with.

Yes, i get that 6 ft is some sort of ideal but most people aren't deciding on partners on just height and honestly?

I am dating a woman taller than me by a good 2 to 3 inches. Being dominant is not about height, it is about being dominant.

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belletaco · 2016-02-23T12:59:19+00:00

Short guys look ripped at lower muscle mass is the only positive there.

shoup88 · 2016-02-23T15:53:17+00:00

When I look at my group of male friends and who gets laid the most, it's definitely the two shortest guys. They're both around 5'6 or 5'7 - not much taller than me. One has decent money (though you wouldn't know based on how he dresses or acts) and one definitely does not. They're both good-looking, confident, funny.

I couldn't say whether they've developed these social skills because they're shorter, or if those two things are unrelated. Either way, it seems to be working great for them.

I've even heard some women note that there's a benefit to their height when it comes to sexual positions. It's not a dealbreaker.

c_in_macn · 2016-02-23T16:08:22+00:00

The funny thing is, women will claim biology with regards to their attraction to only tall men, but when men say they are most attracted to slim women 18-24, they're pigs who can't handle a real woman.

KrispyMcSockington · 2016-02-23T16:20:10+00:00

I did a quick search online;

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2557540/Height-DOES-matters-Women-want-men-taller-make-feel-protected-feminine.html

You could probably find more, but in my personal experience, height does matter to women. But, height is a relative thing. I knew a very short woman who married a...what's the PC term here? Little person? And they were happy. But she wasn't very much taller than he was.

If you want proof of women's tastes in men, check the covers of cosmopolitan's sexiest men. Another quick search online:

http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/love-sex/g31/cosmos-25-sexiest-men-85353/?slide=26

http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/entertainment/centrefolds/g3375/cosmopolitan-sexiest-men-of-2014/?slide=4

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/guys/

Now I don't know how tall those guys are but they don't seem short. And gosh most of them are white, but that's another discussion altogether. Just take a look at the "sexiest male strippers" - those guys are not celebrities or at least not on the same level as the sexiest men in the world. But they don't look short at all. I was looking at what is trending in the mainstream media for an idea of what people are consuming.

There seems to be an almost cookie cutter image of what women consider sexy. Tall, well-built/toned (i.e. "abs for days"), handsome (perfect jawline, no doubt), seemingly smooth/hairless and...white.

Mother of god. These guys are the physical embodiment of Chad. I didn't want to believe it.

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T16:50:19+00:00

My wife's ex is 5'5", and my wife is 5'8". She claims it didn't bother her much, but the entire time they were married she could NOT wear high heels out, because he hated it. I'm 5'11", and when she puts on the tall heels, she tops out at around 6', which is to say she is every so slightly taller than me with them on. Doesn't bother me in the least, and one of my buddies tried to crack wise on it when we first started dating. When I looked him straight in the eye and said "on the plus side, those shoes put her booty at the prefect height for knocking one out with her bent over the bathroom counter", and a wink, there was a huge laugh and absolutely no mention of it again.

I'm not saying all short men are upset by taller women, but at least in this case, it wasn't HER preference that caused the issue, it was his. Of course, being as I got shit from a buddy of mine, I'd bet dollars he got a LOT of shit when they were together from his. And all that being said? My wife has told me multiple times when we've gone out how much she likes being able to wear stilts and NOT feel like an Amazon next to me.

oryxic · 2016-02-23T17:44:57+00:00

I have only anecdata to offer but I've dated a lot of short dudes (actually predominantly short dudes, now that I think about it. huh.) and they all seemed to be doing ok in terms of women. I've always thought it was kind of nice to date someone close to my height - I can smooch them without having to find a stepstool.

I've never heard any of my female friends say they thought a guy was too short. I also acknowledge that they could simply be keeping it to themselves so they don't appear to be shallow. However, the ones that are in established relationships are with guys that are around their heights. So, short for guys.

The only time I really had a problem with it was when I went out with a guy who was significantly shorter than me (like by 3-4 inches). He was very short, and it was interesting and different for me to be taller than someone. It didn't bother me that much, but his constantly references to it, joking about it, and calling himself "fun-sized" made him unbearable to be around.

Transmigratory · 2016-02-23T19:05:32+00:00

You'll get women who'll say that it doesn't matter, yet casually drop that their bf is above average. Then the token ones who'll say they have short bfs.

Truth be told, unless you're going to try the friends first game then it is hopeless for a short guy more or less. Though it can depend on how they come across as well, but this applies to <1% of short guys.

It is the same with tall women. They're stuck with aiming for guys taller, or need to settle with someone shorter.

DaphneDK · 2016-02-24T00:30:40+00:00

Short men are not doomed, but all things the same, are going to have fewer options. So what? Ugly girls are going to have fewer options. Fat girls are going to have fewer options. Most people do end up with a partner though. I'm 6'2 btw. - living in an Asian country. Life is good. And white - cute little yellow girls with slanty eyes love me. I'm milking that tall and white privilege for all that it's worth.

ummidkhi · 2016-02-24T02:09:28+00:00

short men are invisible to most women, but that doesn't mean some don't get into relationships. I see short couples all the time.

user5577 · 2016-02-24T02:47:12+00:00

Two words - Fame and Money. Those two more than make up for anything in this world.

There's your answer. Being short is a handicap in the dating world, just like being born brown or having an ugly face. You didn't get blessed with 10/10 genetics, very few people do.

So the next step is what are you going to do about it. Yea if you're "Average" then women will ignore you. If you get ripped they wont.

I personally know a small guy (5'5") who is absolutely shredded and did some work as an underwear model - has no issue getting women.

honeypuppy · 2016-02-24T08:03:25+00:00

Reposting:

OKCupid on height

Do taller guys get more messages and have more sex partners? Yes.

But it's a modest advantage. The average 5'6" guy on OKCupid has had nine sexual partners, the average 6'0" guy has had ten (and beyond 6'0" there are no further gains). The average 5'6" guy gets two unsolicited messages a week, the average 6'0" guy three.

Lonny_zone · 2016-02-24T08:15:00+00:00

Having seen short guys do well enough my entire life, I think the real issue for short guys is being ugly or low in testosterone. Pretty much every Hollywood actor is 5'8," and I find it hard to imagine that any of those guys had trouble getting laid before they were famous.

LifterofThings · 2016-02-24T16:23:55+00:00

Nah, they just start from a deficit. There will be a few women for whom height will be an absolute dealbreaker, but I personally really doubt that they're the majority.

My old roommate is 5'3". He had sort of a rough time with Internet dating, but met girls IRL all the time. Online, girls could take a look at his height and block him-- IRL, it was easier to get his foot in the door using charm and wit and intellect. He's also one of the most disciplined people I've ever met, and takes excellent care of himself physically.

He dated a number of women that I'd consider to be 6+, before marrying a super-awesome absolute hottie of a redhead who is his perfect match in pretty much every way. You just have to keep working on yourself, and persevere.

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[deleted] · 2016-02-23T11:38:54+00:00

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betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-02-23T11:12:53+00:00

Two words - Fame and Money. Those two more than make up for anything in this world.

This is true, and it's why Napoleon had le Napoleonic complex. He knew he would need external SMV to make it as a short man in the ultra-hypergamous, cutthroat SMP nation that France is, and has always been. Not just anyone could hope to make it in the female-ruled salon scene, with its novelty/thrill seeking mademoiselles.

If you're short, develop severe personality issues over it, and use those issues to motivate you to trample others socially and economically, towering over them metaphorically since you cannot hope to do so physically.

Title	CMV: If a man is short, he's pretty much invisible to women, and is bound to be doomed in dating market.
Author	PrettyPreethi
Upvotes	9
Comments	150
Date	February 23, 2016 10:53 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4763e5/cmv_if_a_man_is_short_hes_pretty_much_invisible/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-if-a-man-is-short-hes-pretty-much-invisible-to.276056 https://theredarchive.com/post/276056

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