CMV: Men who truly believe in the "Red Pill" are living a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Startled_Butterfly · 2016-01-19T19:28:16+00:00

My relationship with my boyfriend is better since we began to read TRP. He's still not abusive, he still doesn't hate me, I think he's amazing, and we're both better partners.

jintana · 2016-01-19T18:53:13+00:00

Not angry. Don't hate women. Relationship is better and more fulfilling for both of us since I rebalanced to be less beta.

Oh, and I'm not abusive, and the sex fairies are being quite busy too.

Myth busted?

Lonny_zone · 2016-01-19T18:49:34+00:00

You say abusive, I say assertive.

Lonny_zone · 2016-01-19T18:54:00+00:00

If I follow all traffic laws and have constant awareness of other drivers then won't that limit the risk of traffic collisions?

OlBastard · 2016-01-19T19:03:50+00:00

Must you demonize men only because they want something that's different from what you want them to want?

You bloops need to stop looking at the few angry phasers and drawing transparent conclusions.

TRP is all about building relationships with women. It makes women desire them. That's better than any respectable relationship one can want.

My fiancee loves my 'abuse', and it works well for us. No one's faking anything. I take lead, and she follows like a good first mate.

I wouldn't trade that for the world.

Even if TRP is this terrible cancer on society(lulz), that shit yields fulfilled men.

Hans_Brickface · 2016-01-19T18:53:45+00:00

Men who don't act like this (the mystical "Beta") can have real relationships with women that are mutually fulfilling.

Unless he gets extremely lucky (or unless he has a lot of money), about the only time that's going to happen to a beta is if he's with somebody that's beneath him. As in, he has to close his eyes during sex and pretend she's somebody else ...

But adopting an abusive mindset (faking being an "Alpha") sets you up for failure, unless your only goal is to abuse.

Haven't you ever heard the phrase 'fake it til you make it'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc

And anyway, don't confuse red pillers with alphas - these two are not mutually exclusive. Alphas aren't always abusive toward women (although I imagine quite a few definitely are, just because they can).

ExpendableOne · 2016-01-19T19:25:42+00:00

They HATE women! Women are nothing except mystical sex fairies to these angry men! But these women won't perform for them.

You are trying to rationalize things through your own projection(which may even stem from your personal capacity to hate the other gender) and delusions. Very few men, if any, would or could ever actually hate women. Even the ones who say they hate women, generally don't actually hate women.

I propose that this happens because Red Pillers learn to utterly dehumanize women to the point where they can't have a relationship with a woman.

You base that on what? How do you know whether or not those men actually dehumanize woman(or do you simply rationalize their views that way)? How do you know who is or isn't haven't successful relationships with anyone?

Men who don't act like this (the mystical "Beta") can have real relationships with women that are mutually fulfilling.

There are always exceptions to the rule but that certainly doesn't negate the harsh truths about society/culture, or their relevancy.

But adopting an abusive mindset (faking being an "Alpha") sets you up for failure, unless your only goal is to abuse.

Not sure how that would even be an "abusive mindset", nor how you would know who and what sets men up for failure. I would think the men living their lives would have a better idea as to what constitutes success or failure in their own lives.

All you are offering here is wishful thinking that is largely ignorant or dismissive of everything nasty or unfair that might be going on between men and women. It's not realistic.

0909a0909 · 2016-01-19T18:56:41+00:00

I think the one healthy thing redpill does for men is teach them to value themselves outside of what they bring to a woman.

This creates confidence and self-worth. It is internalized and not about women at all.

Some men do shut down and become noncommunicative in their relationships and I think that is a self-fulfilling prophecy for an unhappy relationship for one or both partners.

TheSonofLiberty · 2016-01-19T19:44:49+00:00

I'm roughly in the middle, but what is there to be angry about?

You confuse abrasive analyses of behavior with anger and hatred. Not to say there aren't angry men commenting sometimes, but to assume this of your ideological opponent because of differences in gender ideas is baffling.

lolobviously · 2016-01-20T01:32:55+00:00

OP:

One amazing thing that so many women miss is benevolent sexism. Men, by default, treat women much better than they treat other men, they help them when they need a quick favour, they are much less aggressive toward them socially, they defend them from other men etc etc.

When men treat women as equals, like they treat other men, its an amazing difference compared to how they normally get treated and this small subset of men willing to treat you equally appear to be sexist.

If I were willing threaten you with a punch in the mouth for being a loud mouth, and the other men around cheered me on, you would feel that we were al sexist pigs. But thats exactly how men treat other men.

Welcome to equality. Its the future you asked for.

Teebs123 · 2016-01-19T22:19:39+00:00

I've had the best relationships of my life since the reading the red pill. Neither were perfect, and admittedly I fucked the later up. Both beat being a depressed loser thinking he could never get laid.

The red pill woke me up, I am just as good as everyone else, hell with effort I can be better than most. Yes it taught me not to treat women as men but it never advocated hating them. We all know women are more emotional than men, you don't need the red pill to draw those conclusions, it went a step further and explained what I could expect. This was key.

The other day I was with my mates girlfriend doing our metal hobby. she said to my face(paraphrased) "I'm counting down the days until my ex is back in the country if he'll take me back, I'll dump my bf in an instant." Old me would be shocked, post red pill me, shrugged it off. No offense to my mate but she is simply trading up, she is practising good sexual strategy. Branch swinging to the best guy she can obtain with zero regard to her bf that loves her.

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T18:57:27+00:00

You can claim I'm a misogynist(I disagree but I'd say that's a fair point to argue) but don't tell me I hate women.

I love my mother. I love my sisters. I love my extended female family members. I have girls in my social circle who I respect and care for. I don't dehumanize women, nor do I abuse them. I act more dominant because of TRP. I know TBP hates that fucking word but even if you think being dominant is gross don't tell me it's the same thing as being abusive. That's just clearly untrue.

alreadyredschool · 2016-01-19T19:04:34+00:00

I think I have heard that one before, it still doesn't sound correct. Especially if you consider that women love me. And that misogynistic guys still get laid, I can just refer to ice hockey club locker room, or the football club locker room, or the military.

In there: women are shit, you are shit if you don't get laid consistently

Just world fallacy, that's all.

Equilibriun · 2016-01-19T20:02:27+00:00

If I'm doing a self fulfilling prophecy and life is good, why the fuck do you care? The laws of nature don't give a damn about self fulfilling. Nature just wants offspring. Doesn't care why or how. There isn't abuse in nature. But there is alpha and beta

Transmigratory · 2016-01-19T21:07:11+00:00

Or men who truly believe TRP realise being themselves isn't worth it unless they improve themselves to be someone worth being. Everything else follows from the improvements.

Society likes to pander to the "women are wonderful" effect... TRP does not.

MakeEmSayAyy · 2016-01-19T22:45:33+00:00

Just a bunch of words you feeeeeeeeel are true. No examples. Just: I dont like beta men waking up! They HAAATE WOMEN!

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T20:04:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

diFFzee · 2016-01-19T19:26:08+00:00

But adopting an abusive mindset

Could you give me a breakdown of this abusive mindset? Genuinely curious. Simple bullet points/list will do

eddiae · 2016-01-19T19:11:24+00:00

did you just use the word believe ? lmao redpill is an analysis of sexual dynamics, it seems to be that way with other primates, and from my observations i already had a similar view. also you used a lot of buzzwords like "real relationships" and "mutually fulfilling". science simply put crushes any hamstering towards sexual dynamics, when we talk about ape relationships in studies we dont fucking mention any of these buzzwords, well guess what, humans are classified as apes.

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-19T20:50:29+00:00

You realise I managed to hold down a very emotionally intimate romantic relationship for a year WHILE recovering from depression related misogyny? I did not hate her, I truly loved her but I had some pronounced fears and prejudices against women as a collective, especially 'girls'. I still do, mostly…sadly.

Frame is a self fulfilling prophecy. The hatred and anger has less effect on its health than the burden of performance.

Christian_Kong · 2016-01-19T21:08:09+00:00

Not really angry and definitely no hate. A lot of the RP stuff was conclusions I came to was after years of being "blue" long before I ever heard of red pill.

exit_sandman · 2016-01-19T21:16:18+00:00

I propose that this happens because Red Pillers learn to utterly dehumanize women to the point where they can't have a relationship with a woman. Sexual contact, sure, but with people who aren't even.. people.

Dammit, she's onto us, my brothers!

Us and Peter Griffin.

[deleted] · 2016-01-20T00:31:33+00:00

There's lots of ins and lots of outs with TRP. It's neither 100% true nor 100% inaccurate. There's lots of truths to it but there's also lots of generalizations such as AWALT (I wish this would be changed to AWHS "all women have standards"). Obviously a drug-addicted stripper who abandoned her children to her pedophile ex husband meth addict biker is going to be different from a Saudi Arabian housewife.

Lots of these guys are angry because they had bad experiences with women, and rightfully so. Anyone is angry when they feel shorted, used, and taken for a fool in a relationship.

One problem with this is the anger usually snowballs and most of these guys find themselves subconsciously dating and seeking out the same personality type women over and over again because they have all these TRP concepts ingrained in their mind. They come to TRP to post FRs and share all the red flags they experience on their dates, reinforcing TRP beliefs.

However, if you learn to filter through the BS and anger in TRP it's a great guide for learning how to not be a pushover and manage yourself if you're dealing with an unruly bitch (IE: She's no more than FWB status, keep your availability open for someone who's worth it) instead of letting her treat you like a doormat.

mustang_mike · 2016-01-19T18:53:08+00:00

One of the biggest issues with trp is that if you only go to bars and clubs to meet women as recommended you will only meet awalt cc sluts.

I think that is more self fulfilling than what you described.

cxj · 2016-01-20T04:52:38+00:00

I was very angry, afraid, and depressed after suffering a false accusation of DV. I had some angry, negative posts for a few months, then tired myself out and began thinking. My anger went from anger at my ex, to anger at the legal system, to anger at feminism, and then died down as I realized this was all a culmination of rapid technological advancement fueling rapid social change. It's not really anyone's fault. TRP and the manosphere was instrumental in helping me realize this. People just are what they are, not good or bad really.

My ex who falsely accused me got married recently. I hope her and her new husband find happiness together, and make it last.

Limekill · 2016-01-20T05:20:08+00:00

Men who don't act like this (the mystical "Beta") can have real relationships with women that are mutually fulfilling.

Yeah - they have a relationship.... and never have her best.

What kind of relationship is that? Who the fuck accepts 2nd best? and thinks that they are in some kind of 'mutually fulfilling' relationship?

raindient · 2016-01-20T14:39:23+00:00

TRP ideas can't be blamed for disappointments I went through before I had ever read them.

[deleted] · 2016-01-20T18:14:50+00:00

I see angry OP!

She HATES men! Men are nothing except mystical provision fairies to this angry OP! But these men won't perform for her.

I propose that this happens because OP has learned to utterly dehumanize men to the point where she can't have a relationship with a man. Sexual contact, sure, but with people who aren't even.. people.

OPs who don't act like this (the mystical "Bitch") can have real relationships with men that are mutually fulfilling.

Not every relationship is free of abuse, of course. But adopting an abusive mindset (faking not being a "bitch") sets you up for failure, unless your only goal is abuse.

CMV

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T18:55:19+00:00

There is a lot of anger today on PPD...wowzers.

[deleted] · 2016-01-20T03:46:30+00:00

What if "mutually fulfilling" means different things to different people.

What if for some people a fulfilling relationship involves seeing the other person once or twice a week, doing something fun, and then having sex.

ppdthrowawai · 2016-01-20T15:16:08+00:00

I'll raise my hand for the "didn't believe it until continually treated shitty and after following had universal improvements in relationships with family, friends, and lovers" club.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-01-19T19:14:39+00:00

Sure, they can have sexual relationships.

There are even some naturally dominant men who consider all this a support network for traditional relationships...if they ignore all the mountains of anger phase bullshit. (Note: maintaining the anger phase can be a life long pursuit.)

Title	CMV: Men who truly believe in the "Red Pill" are living a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Author	jintana
Upvotes	9
Comments	165
Date	January 19, 2016 6:48 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/41q360/cmv_men_who_truly_believe_in_the_red_pill_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-who-truly-believe-in-the-red-pill-are.276807 https://theredarchive.com/post/276807

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