Why do women freak out when their SO is discovered reading TRP material, but it's ok for women to be reading everyfeminism, Jezebel or SJW tumblr pages?

akaipill · 2015-11-23T01:49:36+00:00

I don't see the difference, it's just two different sides of the same argument, BP and RP....

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I don't know man I've not met a single feminist (and my mother was a radical feminist during the 70's, her and literally all her friends were social activists) that legitimately gives a shit about female CEO's or increased representation in the boardroom - it's always been about helping those who are the most disadvantaged. my mother worked in legal aid, mainly around estates in south london and she took on countless cases of police brutality, involving gasp young males, often adolescents. seriously, i've had in-depth conversations with people that would probably the power users on TRP get up and run away - not a single one of them was actually a crazed man-hater, even the lesbians. They all cared about issues that involved poverty and class.

of course, these are all anecdotes. we all know feminism is about "getting wealthy women the same advantages their male counterparts have" and

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The problem with going from "most of the people with power are men" to "men have power" is that you're ascribing a trait (having power) to the whole group based on a tiny minority inside the group actually having the trait. It's like looking at the fact that proportionally black people are more likely to commit crime and saying "black people are criminals", even though most black people aren't criminals. Or looking at the fact that proportionately Americans are much more likely to be Mormons than Russians are and declaring "Americans are Mormons". It just doesn't make sense. Yes, there are a lot more Mormon Americans than Russians, but most Americans still aren't Mormons.

For me, saying "men have/had power" requires there to be some tangible way that most men had power compared to their female counterparts. It doesn't have to include necessarily every man alive, but it does have to apply to the average man or most men in some way for me to apply it to the group. This is not satisfied by gender ratios in politics and business being skewed towards men. Having the people in power be of the same gender as you doesn't give you power.

I do think that there are many places and time periods where it does make sense to say that men have power. In traditionalist/religious cultures where the man is the head of the household and his wife is expected to obey him, it makes sense to say that men have power because there is a tangible way that regular men have power based on their gender (or in comparison to their female counterparts). This is the case in many parts of the world today, and it was the case in even more parts of the world in the past.

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Yes this is true, but women were only slaughtered and raped after their sides men had been virtually wiped out with a few prisoners, who were often raped as well but who cares because they were male losers? Then put into slave labor. Wars affect women too, but they simply affect men worse overall because men are more disposable via lack of wombs.
Yes they did but these jobs were still overwhelmingly male and the bulk of dirty work and risk taking was still done by men.
Manufacturing =/= trenches, infantry charges, D Day, etc.

We are simply arguing over the degree to which women benefited from exclusion from male spaces. I will give like 10% ground here to accommodate for women who got massacred when their side lost or wound up doing shitty but less shitty than the men had it work in male spaces. Then again, I can probably make that 10% back up from the fact that men have in fact done more parenting and home work than feminists want to admit either. Gender roles have rarely been 100% absolutely rigid for most people because thats not viable. Men have cleaned and cooked and taken care of kids too, just not nearly as much as women.

[–]AnandyaAlpha and Omega-1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Women were also put into slave labour. I repeat. The difference is this. We both can affect our destiny. We both can rage against each other. Our partners (in this scenario) cannot. They have to either kill themselves. Or accept rape. Seriously? You are bitching about the fact that men often had to go to war but ignore the benefits? You got more freedom, choices and power over a woman at an equivalent social rank. You got to do shit. you got rewarded for actions.
What? Women did HALF the work. How is it that these jobs were overwhelmingly male? They were taking the same risks, it's just that no one PAID them so they never got credit.
Women are fighting for front-line combat roles. Manufacturing made sure idiotic men could fight in the idiotic trenches. Let's NOT forget why the fuck we built trenches? It wasn't women who started the war. It wasn't women who wrote about the Jews. It wasn't women who wrote about Mein Kampf or who planned Pearl Harbour. It was men. If you are going to rubbish their contribution during WW II, then we are going to have to face the painful truth. That our gender started a war that killed millions and set the standard of evil.

Seriously? EVEN TODAY traditional men suck at parenting. The idea of a man being involved with kids is frankly abhorrent to RP and most of you guys shouldn't have kids. No really, playing stupid games with your wife is not the best way to have a kid. It's the best way to create a fucked up situation and a fragile home life.

I repeat. Women Were PHYSICALLY kept out of jobs and opportunities. Men were not.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Never said women were not slaves. Men were raped in wars as well. I'm not "bitching" about men going to war, I'm rationally arguing that it was a male space women benefited from being excluded from for the most part. Most men did not get any freedom, choices or power, they got to fight in a war of their generation, then come home to do brutal physical jobs in shitty weather until they died. A small pool of men had choices, but most men did not.
It is a known fact that jobs like mining and building and anything physical have been male dominated, and most of the deaths and injuries have been taken by them. The one time where women were actually doing the same exact thing for less pay was manufacturing until it was outlawed.
Typical feminist/liberal logic: if you are white/male, you are totally responsible for all the negative things people of your race/gender did, but in no way are you allowed to take credit for the positive things your race/gender did. You are simply an inherently evil, spoiled person, and can never ever undo this, and protesting this in any way makes you even worse than you are already.

Very few women are fighting for combat roles, its mostly politicians who know nothing about the military trying to make themselves look good.

I repeat: The vast majority of men were kept out of jobs and opportunities as well, and only a handful of elite men had any real choice.

[–]AnandyaAlpha and Omega0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes but by OTHER Men. You are ignoring the constant problem. And you are ignoring the fact that men in the SAME situation as women would have more freedom, power and choice.
No, that's relatively recent. And FYI? In places like Africa and India and China women still make up 50% of the construction workers. Most of the deaths and injuries to women simply were not catalogued. Because the pay would go to the man who worked with them. If they got injured the man's pay would get docked (for his wife's salary). The reason we can calculate male deaths and injuries was that pay roll removals were logged. So men's deaths and injuries were logged.
You cannot blame women for WW II or I. Not ONE woman was in power and had any control over the events. Nor did they decide the strategy. Nor did they make the weapons. Because to do those things one requires power. Power they never had. If you look at the combat contribution of women in more egalitarian society due to communism it was much higher.

I repeat. My best friend died in a combat role. Plenty of women want to serve don't for a simple reason.

Why aren't enough men in nursing? That's the same reason why women don't see the army as a career choice.

I repeat - You don't understand the basic idea that if two people are at the SAME socio-economic status, the person with the dick gets more freedom and power and choice. You may have less choice than the king but you got way more choice than if you were a woman in your position.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Irrelevant whether it was by other men or not. Being a slave is shitty regardless of what gender your master is. I'm not ignoring that men in the same situation had more power, freedom or choice, I'm straight up calling you on your bullshit. The vast majority of men had no choices, same as the women. A handful of men had choices. You just don't want to give up your precious victim narrative. I don't believe women make up 50% of construction workers, unless the stats are being fudged which they probably are. It's more like 50% of the "construction industry" large parts of which happen in the office, is composed of women.

I never blamed women for World Wars, or war in general. However, men, in general, are not responsible for them either, but rather a handful of elite men who run things. This idea that men collectively are responsible for the political choices of elites is just as preposterous as all blacks being responsible for crimes.

Enough men aren't in nursing for the same reason lots of people aren't: they don't have any clue what it actually is, which is the same reason people are enthusiastic about it, lol. I am a nurse.

I understand that you believe "that if two people are at the SAME socio-economic status, the person with the dick gets more freedom and power and choice," but this just isn't true, its easily disprovable feminist propaganda you have bought into. This was true in elite circles but is no longer the case in the western world.

We are just rehashing the same points, I'm bailing on this thread now. Bye.

[–]AnandyaAlpha and Omega0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes but male slaves weren't raped. Female ones were. It's EXTRA shitty. It's shit + more shit. It's also that male slaves could get more freedom than a female one. More power too.

Want to bet? If I show you pictures of female construction workers in India you will retract your statement?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-As0GvktsQEE/UiP-JUlaVaI/AAAAAAAAAAc/obCX4a8AaCk/s1600/e5ba3d14-8cb1-44bc-8aaf-8fcd48748816HiRes.jpg

http://wiego.org/sites/wiego.org/files/india---construction-workers2---marty-chen.jpg

Fun fact. 30 million construction workers in India. Around 15 million are women. The current argument is that they tend to be unskilled labour because no one teaches them to be electricians, plumbers and the like. They tend to be brick carriers. Which is THE most physical job.

Oh? You are a nurse.

You are aware that as a nurse you are more likely to get promoted than a female nurse despite it being a female dominated industry? Or that you are more likely to be given responsibility?

And I know that most men don't go into nursing because they are told and think it is a female only field.

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I lost a good friend who was a soldier. Her kids are my godkids. Fun fact. You are wrong. Honestly? Wearing a low cut top's better for the thing and sex is surprisingly more guilt free without the uniform.
See above. But nice of you to assume all Lesbians are Butch.
When everything was done by hand? Women did shit too. Seriously? Ever churn butter by hand? Women. Pick and Sow Crops? Women? Handle Animals? Women. Tanning? Trapping? Skinning? Butchery? Fishing? Women. In fact the TWO jobs I cannot think of a woman doing were professional soldiers mostly because women weren't expected to be equal or free and smithing possibly because that's a role of power in a village. However she would help carry the coals/coke and stoke and do other things to keep the forge running.

Honestly? You assume women in patriarchal society sat around being princesses. No. Only Princesses did that.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/rtx1f2pd1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1024

Most did some pretty back breaking labour. And they didn't get paid and if they did get paid it wasn't as much as a man.

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One of the ones I listed is Cosmo, and they have hundreds of articles like that. The magazine has been around as a women's guide to fashion, sex, and dating advice since 1965. It currently has a circulation of over 3 million (that wouldn't be including the website).

Regardless:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terri-trespicio/how-to-get-a-guy-to-commit-if-thats-what-you-want_b_7525378.html

Huffington post

http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/advice/a8725/how-to-get-a-boyfriend-the-easy-way/

MarieClaire

http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/blogs/single-ish/2010/02/dating-advice-7-mistakes-singl

Glamour

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/306651/

This is from the freaking Atlantic. It's telling women that they should settle for an orbiter. Here's a snippet.

In practice, my married friends with kids don’t spend that much time with their husbands anyway (between work and child care), and in many cases, their biggest complaint seems to be that they never see each other. So if you rarely see your husband—but he’s a decent guy who takes out the trash and sets up the baby gear, and he provides a second income that allows you to spend time with your child instead of working 60 hours a week to support a family on your own—how much does it matter whether the guy you marry is The One?

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And I was responding to you, not the person you were responding to.

So then to respond in context...

Other than Cosmo (and WikiHow, I guess), none of those sites are well known enough to be controversial. If they were more popular, they would probably get their fair share of controversy and hate.

Cosmo doesn't get "hate" because it doesn't earn it. No one takes it seriously, so rather than controversy it mostly elicits head shaking and mockery. Ironically, the specific article you linked to isn't about manipulation, it is about determining if a guy is likely to commit. The only advice it gives is at the very end, and it isn't manipulative at all, it instead suggests clear and open communication.

WikiHow just lacks quality controls. You can't blame WikiHow for having a "How to Manipulate Men" article any more than you can blame Wikipedia for hosting a controversial article.

Is this better?

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And in this response I didn't make any reference to feminism either. I agree with your premise that those web sites exist and addressed why they may not be as hated or vilified as they deserve.

TRP teaches men that they should be manipulative the way women are to be successful in society, basically taking the same strategies that they hate when women use, and teaching men to use them.

Feminism is trying to change society so that men and women have a level playing field. It isn't a primary purpose, but a side effect of a level playing field is that manipulative strategies become less valuable and less appealing.

According to some theories women have historically been taught manipulation strategies to compensate for their traditional lack of actual power, and as women make more gains in equality, that will no longer be necessary. In reality, humans of both genders have been manipulating each other since before language was developed and we're not likely to stop no matter how equal the world gets, but it will be less of a gendered issue.

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And in this response I didn't make any reference to feminism either. I agree with your premise that those web sites exist and addressed why they may not be as hated or vilified as they deserve.

I don't think it's deserved. It's entertainment for some, a different way 9f looking at things for others, and I largely ignored by everyone else.

TRP teaches men that they should be manipulative the way women are to be successful in society, basically taking the same strategies that they hate when women use, and teaching men to use them.

One thing that trp teaches that a lot of the members there don't get is th as the tere isn't any reason to hate women doing what's in their best interest. I don't hate women, I love them. Women are wonderful, smart, funny, intelligent, loving, and generally a pleasure to be around. I don't hate or get angry when a woman shit tests me, I respond the way ive learned over the years gets the best response. There is no deceit.

Feminism is trying to change society so that men and women have a level playing field. It isn't a primary purpose, but a side effect of a level playing field is that manipulative strategies become less valuable and less appealing.

According to some theories women have historically been taught manipulation strategies to compensate for their traditional lack of actual power, and as women make more gains in equality, that will no longer be necessary. In reality, humans of both genders have been manipulating each other since before language was developed and we're not likely to stop no matter how equal the world gets, but it will be less of a gendered issue.

Everything can be considered manipulation if you want to. Women wear spanx, get their hair colored, and wear makeup; guys wear nice clothes, expensive watches, and drive nice cars. That's the way the world works. Ultimately, everyone wants what's best for them and their family. The feminist movement doesn't want an equal playing field because they don't want to give anything up where it is unequal to them. A guy gets attacked by a woman and calls the cops? He goes to jail because he is more capable of violence. There is 100% solid evidence that a woman falsely accuses a man of sexual misconduct? Nothing happens to them.

Feminism is about getting more for women, and not trying to make things fair for men and women.

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Hypocrisy, really.

TRP material basically does what EverydayFeminism, Jezebel and SJW tumblr pages do... except they flip the genders. They choose to help men while those sites you mention (let's say FemaleSites) choose to help women. FemaleSites slander men, undermine their intelligence and integrity while TRP slanders women the same way.... Both do this to help their target audience.

If you're going to slam TRP while thinking FemaleSites like EverydayFeminism, Jezebel and SJW tumblr pages are fine: you're a bloody hypocrite. In fact the FemaleSites go a step further by shaming men like the guy mattress girl falsely accused for example... causing permanent damage to their reputation with no regard for it... 'cause it was a male they damaged.

TRP just tells people to mind their own business and don't superimpose your views and outlook onto others... unlike the alternative.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

No, they won't.

Yes they will.

When Athol Kay wrote his books, the least objectionable and most female friendly books in the RP-O-Sphere incidentally, and out his real name on the cover... He was hounded from his job by calls to HR, he has had to leave and make RP books and counselling his primary business. He previously worked as a nurse.

Not content with this, people doxxed his wife... As she is mentioned in his books and participates in them, writing a few pages. She was ALSO hounded out of her job. For a long while it was touch and go whether they'd lose their house, 401k the works. Luckily they found ways to scrape by on RP and are currently, as I understand it, keeping their heads and the heads of their children above water.

And that's the least objectionable writer you could possibly pick, he was even happy to use his real name thinking he was safe due to the fact he was writing non-objectionable relationship RP in a monogamous context. He and his wife were not.

RooshV similarly lost his job and had to turn pro once doxxed.

There is a reason ALL our big names use pseudonyms. Anyone who does not do so is hounded from his job. This is who your allies are.

[–]Xemnas811 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No, who said "surprised".

I said they all use pseudonyms because THEY ARE NOT surprised to be doxxed and hounded out of their careers.

The original poster was claiming this does not happen. Despite the fact that every RP author who used his real name/or whose real name was doxxed HAS been faced with massive career/work problems as a result of it and our opponents penchant for trying to ruin their lives. Most lose their jobs.

Thats WHY almost every RP male writes under a psedonym.

And the fact that this does not occur in reverse....EVER.... Is why all those women writing those "how to manipulate men" articles linked above is happy to do so under her real name.

They aren't hounded from their jobs due to accusations of misandry.... Yet males posting the gender reversed equivalents ARE hounded from their jobs due to accusations of misogyny ... which is WHY they all use pseduonyms.

They're not SURPRISED..... The fact they expected it was WHY they chose to use a pseudonym in the first place.

[–]wombatinaburrowfeminist marsupial-3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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Donglegate? Must have missed that one.

Here.

Shirt gate was a PR fuckup, and he should have never been let on tv wearing that.

Still doesn't justify destroying the career of a guy who made groundbreaking advances (which would possibly have happened had he not eaten truckloads of humble pie).

Mattress girl is being countersued, isn't she?

Yeah, after the guy was ostracized and hounded by an army of SJW on the mere accusation of a girl who probably has BPD or something like that, a girl who got praises and accolades by the media, high-ranking politicians and her college for her "courage". But she may (or may not) get her comeuppance! Justice will be served!! I think Paul Nungesser would prefer her not getting countersued if that meant he could turn back time and never get into bed with that nutjob in the first place.

Tim Hunt had been on the nose for ages, and the university had been looking for an excuse to put him out to pasture.

Says you.

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Which is why TRP is chock full of misogynistic types because it fits their narrative. TRP didn't make them misogynists, it merely gave them a place to put their misogyny into words. And since TRP offers nothing new on the good advice front, it tends to fill itself with people with whom the bad parts resonate, since they didn't need it for the good advice.

Which is why if a guy doesn't fit that narrative than it shouldn't matter if he has read trp, you can agree with TRP without fitting that narrative.

... because you can find the good advice from a plethora of other sources. Why go through someone's diarrhea in hopes of finding a peanut when you have a perfectly good bag of peanuts in the cupboard?

I agree, most of my "life goals" or the way I perceive my life should be is based around the views of Neitzsche, it just so happens that TRP has a side to it that is very similar to the Übermensch which is why I like aspects of it(although it doesnt pay enough attention to the big picture or the self). I don't know of nay other modern sources or popular subreddits based around this. So I take away from TRP what coincides with Nietzsche and ignore the rest

[–]watamIreading-2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is why if a guy doesn't fit that narrative than it shouldn't matter if he has read trp, you can agree with TRP without fitting that narrative.

If TRP fits their narrative, not if they fit TRP's narrative. There aren't all that many reasons to read TRP if it doesn't. If you find yourself agreeing with TRP, it's fitting your narrative. There are plenty (well, more than one) of TRPers who don't fit TRP's narrative, and who are members of groups that are consistently portrayed negatively by TRP. They don't fit TRP's narrative, but TRP fits theirs.

Note that I consider "agreeing with TRP" to mean "agreeing with more than just the good advice of TRP which you could probably have gotten from your male parent if you had asked." But I get that you probably meant by that just agreeing with the good advice (don't be a doormat, don't put people on pedestals, stay fit, things of that nature) while filtering out the bad (half the adult population are like children, oppression olympics, outrage porn, gendered supremacy etc.).

I don't know of nay other modern sources or popular subreddits based around this.

You mean, based around self-improvement? There's a whole, massive and still growing genre of books related to that, if that's your thing.

[–]DietyzPurple Pill1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean, based around self-improvement? There's a whole, massive and still growing genre of books related to that, if that's your thing.

Self improvement through dark triad traits, selfishness, lucrative mindset, seeing people as resources, seeing yourself above all other creatures, morality is defined by you rather than by society etc

I think that TRP makes the same mistake Hitler did, they both try to encapsulate many of Nietzsches views but their focus and thinking is wrong. Hitler made the mistake of basing his views on race, TRP makes the mistake of basing its views on gender(and worrying too much about others and not enough on yourself). Basing views on gender is male hamstering imo, you shouldn't need to justify your thinking or behavior based on anything other than "im okay with doing this and it benefits me, so I do what I do".

[–]wordjedi 27 points27 points27 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]downunderitNon-Red Pill Feeeemale2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]wordjedi 6 points6 points6 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I know, right? I can't stand it. Same with Jezebel. The only time I stumble onto one of their posts is when it gets linked somewhere in the manosphere.

I think I'm more self-aware about my reaction to one sided gender issue articles and posts than most women though. That was my point.

You could ask yourself, how do you even know what TRP is?

You've spent hours and hours trolling it, gnashing your teeth in rage. Then posting your outrage on TwoX.
You've got better things to do, like living your life. So you have no clue what 99% of TRP actually is (building your physique and confidence, cleaning up your wardrobe, not being a pussy too afraid to approach women or letting yourself be walked on) but you've heard about it second hand in hate-filled screeds on the "womanosphere" (Jezebel, TwoX, r/feminism, XO Jane, etc etc), so you're pretty sure it's literally Hitler.

Want to know why TRP has "misogynistic" posts sometimes? Because that particular online community (speaking as an outsider) lives and dies by hookup success. So the guys there have to constantly "cold-approach" attractive women, and get shot down and rejected most of the time. Nobody really likes to be rejected. It's just the nature of the game. Over time the damage accumulates. Imagine if women had to live like that? Yeah, there might be blood. On balance I'd say a few shitty internet posts is a better way to blow off steam than violence.

tl;dr Women are not princesses, angels, or helpless victims. They just think they are. That's why misandry is invisible to them, but misogyny is obvious.

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a sub full of spoilt brats sulking that they haven't been awarded a princess?

Here's Jezebel whining and rationalizing that they can't get a man to commit once they're bored with the carousel and want a beta provider instead.

Without TRP/MRA/MGTOW, we would never understand any of this stuff, except that women are special perfect princesses, who are popular when they're 19 because of their innate likability and awesome social skills. Men are smelly ugly rape apes. Most of them are unattractive, which is why it's much harder for an average 19 year old guy to get laid than an average 19 year old girl. The reason women gradually lose that popularity as they get older? Men. Shallow vulgar rape apes, all of them.

Yes, reading Jezebel makes me grind my teeth as OP said. I assume that's how women feel reading TRP.

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Why do women freak out when their SO is discovered reading TRP material, but it's ok for women to be reading everyfeminism, Jezebel or SJW tumblr pages?

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AlwaysBeSwifting