Is it easy for an average man if he just tries and puts effort ?

Believeinyourflyness · 2020-02-05T14:43:07+00:00

The bar is so low on men, a guy who showers regularely, isn't socially awkward (just getting experience by going out and flirting), put efforts into his look (dress well + haircut + stays fit) is already top 20%.

This is just bullshit that redditors believe and endlessly parrot on r/niceguys, r/inceltears, r/justneckbeardthings and other places that have the sole purpose of virgin shaming men. If this was the case incels wouldn't even be a concept.

There are very few men that don't dress adequately and shower, and the majority of them are ones that got depressed and gave up, and some of them just put a rope around their neck.

The reality is that if you shower regularly, dress well, get a decent haircut and be at least fit if you're not attractive enough to give them tingles women will either laugh at or be actively disgusted by your advances. It's a vicious cycle that makes your social skills and view on women worse and worse as time goes on. When a demographic you put on a pedestal and want to work to get attention hates you that much you become jaded, angry and depressed.

factorfactorfactor · 2020-02-05T10:13:47+00:00

speaking from experience, doing that basic shit is not enough. I don't know where all these trolls are but having gone to around 250 meetups I've met like 3 guys who didn't shower. a lot of people have yeeyee haircuts, no fashion, etc. but fixing that doesn't raise you above the bar. you still need to get rich or statusmaxx (I started a business and became known at salsa)

that gets you from 0 to 1. the actual chads (top 20% in looks) are slaying from day 1. so after a couple years of effort you will be about 1/8 as effective as chad

dylang92 · 2020-02-05T10:47:58+00:00

As someone who has been putting effort in since day 1, I can assure you that just because you try you won’t succeed. I’m also 5’6 with a plain face (according to lookism), so in reality casual sex was never possible for me to begin with

blackedoutfast · 2020-02-05T11:02:06+00:00

I’m 5’6”, workout 5 days a week, get regular expensive haircuts, shower twice a day, dress better than 99.99% of mankind and socialise regularly.

On Tinder, zero responses. In real life, unless I want to date obese single moms with three kids, I go years without any interest at all from women.

Trust me, average women are totally full of shit about how shallow they are when it comes to men. At my height, if you don’t look like Tom Cruise you’re invisible to average women. They find only a tiny sliver of men physically attractive and dating apps are inflating their ridiculous standards even further.

CosmicBioHazard · 2020-02-05T11:29:35+00:00

It's not that the bar is low for seducing women, it's that the bar is low for 'accidentally stumbling into some slutty woman's line of fire when she decides to slut it up'.

In situations like that the reason the bar is so low is because that woman isn't even looking at you, she picks you out of a crowd with roughly the level of care you pick a bag of chips off the shelf.

rus9384 · 2020-02-05T09:50:06+00:00

[deleted]

BumblingBeta · 2020-02-05T20:41:56+00:00

If it was as easy as showering regularly, dressing well, getting a hair cut, going to the gym and talking to a few people, incels wouldn't exist. You can put that effort in (many guys do) and still not get laid. It's really not difficult to do any of those things.

The bar is not "low". The bar is higher than it's ever been. It's now also easier than ever for fat/ugly women to have sex with hot men, so the idea that incels just need to lower their standards is also flawed - they can do that and still not get laid.

Plutonic_blue · 2020-02-06T09:27:28+00:00

From my experience, even when a man tries, it's still pretty fucking hard. You have to master "The game" to an insane level to get success with multiple women like that, and I'm not a player, Im a rather laid back dude. But Im also confident, funny, chill, and pretty damn hardworking.

Im 5 ft 10", 150 pounds, Im a musician, chef, Mixed Martial Artist, and motorcyclist. I have an extremely toned body with pecs, a straight six pack, very toned arms, a nice beard, I groom myself, and have a groomed afro/frohawk.

Tinder is fucking useless for me. Its always no responses no matter what I do. Every girl Im attracted to is either taken, or plays hard to get and then just finds some average thug dude a better choice than me. Ive been working on myself for years now and Im still told "I need to improve myself" and at this point I am starting to be like "WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DO I NEED TO DO?" lmao

Why aren't women told this constant "Improve yourself" shit too? Its always "Love her for her" but me, the ripped, responsible, hardworking, thoughtful, talented, charismatic dude that knows how to make women laugh is always losing in the end and needs to improve I only gotten laid 2 times within the past 8 months and had one girlfriend my entire life. So theres clearly a lot more to the dating game than just "Groom yourself and put in effort"

MirrorThaoss · 2020-02-05T15:08:17+00:00

Ive heard that once you get outside of the US, you feel like you are in the show the Bachelor and have your pick of multiple different good looking women at any given time. This is absolutely not the case in the United States. I honestly think women have have been corrupted here. If a woman is a 7-8-9, they think they are a 10 and only hold our for 9-10 guys. The only loophole to this is if you are in her Inner Circle already and a friend of a friend, or something. In the US you can tell that women are mostly about status and resources and they will hold out until a 9-Man becomes available. T here is no reason to Waste Their time on a man without a house.

WicGoingAnonymous · 2020-02-05T10:22:50+00:00

What's the best amount of success he can get (get a ONS once a month) ? How hard and time consumming is it to boost his value enough to get laid ?

The major cause for lack of ONS is in most cases the lack of desire for ONS from women.

You can raise your status to whatever, but if your area only has a small amount of women willing, then that doesn't mean shit.

piguy31415 · 2020-02-05T11:28:24+00:00

Women's standards in the west are way too fucking high. But nothing will be done about it.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-02-05T11:24:52+00:00

The problem is what is average these days. Being overweight, poor, having mental issues; being dependent on drugs and being depressed/anxious is becoming the new average and I'm sorry, but that is just not attractive no matter how you look at it.

Poverty aside (because it is really a macroeconomic problem) there is nothing "high standard" about trying to live a healthy lifestyle which results in improved looks and better mental health.

On top of that, being nice and pleasant goes a very long way. And then yes, having an interesting career and status is the absolute cherry on the cake.

And forget about nailing instagram thots. Those are not a representation of everyday life women and definitely not women you want to keep in your life.

I have A LOT of examples of both men and women that are not the most physically attractive so they really flourish in other facets. One of my work mates is a skinny, hippie looking, sort of loser guy with the absolute sweetest personality. His girlfriend is absolutely gorgeous and smart and outearns him by a lot.

I have friends which are completely average looking and are spinning plates left and right simply because they are funny and witty. Girls feel relaxed and not judged around them.

None of them are doing much to boost their appearance. One of them was obese and simply got himself a super active dog. That made him lose a bunch of weight and he is now back in the game.

In my post RP days I was always dressed ultra sharp, perfect haircut all the time. Was it attractive? Yes. But also girls around me could not relax, thinking I was just too uptight. So the first impression was there and the first dates are also there, but long term, people just want to show their true colors. Also, you lose the capacity to surprise with a nice attire if you always wear a nice attire. Even someone that is attractive 100% of the time loses the novelty. So I relaxed as well.

But overall, it takes a few hours of careful grocery shopping and other few hours of exercise to have a lean, healthy body which will attract most people. Besides that, being approachable and pleasant goes a very long way.

MirrorThaoss · 2020-02-05T10:52:05+00:00

That's because those "average" men who are seemingly able to date aren't really that average. They have great social skills and healthy confidence, which is already pretty hard to achieve in this day and age.

wtknight · 2020-02-05T14:36:53+00:00

What's the best amount of success he can get (get a ONS once a month) ?

He can probably get a relationship that includes regular sex with a woman slightly less attractive than him, due to hypergamy. I think that average men need to lose their apparent obsession with ONS sex and becoming Chad. It’s tough luck that many average women can and do have casual sex with Chad. They should just try to identify and avoid those women if it bothers them that much.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2020-02-05T18:18:06+00:00

70% of women are obese. Fuck them.

Buddy400 · 2020-02-05T18:51:26+00:00

Well, there's Relationship Market Value and Sexual Market Value.

It's hard to increase SMV enough to get a lot of casual sex.

It's easy to increase RMV enough to get a relationship.

The problem with having a good RMV with a lower SMV is that guys think they're going to get relationships with women who had great sex with the SMV guys in the past, deprioritize sex in LTRs, marry the guy with the good RMV, low SMV and stop having sex with him when the NRE wears off.

I'm sure this doesn't happen as often as imagined, but I'm sure it happens.

I don't think that as many guys want NSA sex as they'd like to have the option to have NSA sex.

Grek27 · 2020-02-05T19:12:35+00:00

The reality is women have been catered to for the last 50 years inflating their egos and making them absurdly entitled.

SherbertBacon · 2020-02-05T12:04:25+00:00

So where is the reality ?

Much closer to the hard-work to improve side.

What's the best amount of success he can get (get a ONS once a month) ?

Depending on how much work you put in... lots. ONS have never been my thing but the few times I dipped my toe in those waters it was shockingly easy. To answer your question: easily a few times a week if you do things right. I'm above average in face, below average in height, never had much of a problem and am often the one in my group that gets approached when we'd go out. Back when I was on Tinder I would never really swipe, I'd just browse my Top Picks of the day and pick a few from those and get a few matches per week from there.

Sidenote: improving yourself just to "get laid" will, in my opinion, never work because that goal is too basic and not sincere enough to make you care enough to get out of bed every morning. Your entire existence will feel like a shallow rat race chasing a tiny piece of cheese, contingent on little more than the physical equivalent of a decadent bar of dark chocolate.

If you decide to improve, FFS do it for more than just getting laid. Do it to reclaim your identity, or better yourself as a man. Do it because you're curious just how far you can improve and how much you can grow. The attention from women will still come as a secondary benefit. You can pivot at any time and put energy into dating, but the attributes that make you attractive are better earned through loftier goals.

joesmithasdf · 2020-02-05T11:27:39+00:00

The first one sounds like women in their early 20's vs the last one which sounds like women in their early 30's.

Women in their early 20's are in their prime, their peak, so of course their standards will be high. If I have a Ferrari, I would not trade it for a car made in the early 90's which by now is nothing more than scrap.

Women in their early 30's however are starting to lose their prime and although they still want the high status guys, they cant attract them no more or if they do - these guys dont want no marriage or kids.

So, their requirements might drop. Some don't. You can even argue that some women start to have a lot more picky requirements in their 30's than their 20's, but that for me is delusional.

Beggars cant be chooses.

Workaholiconew · 2020-02-05T13:05:01+00:00

Easy? No.

Possible? Yes.

The market is a game of chance. If you improve your appearance, you get your chance from 0.00001% to 1%. A enormous growth, sure, but by no means easy.

Also, to be in the 20% percentile just means you are a 6/10. So yes, if you aren't socially awkward, puts effort on your looks you get to the 20% percentile. women will START noticing you exist, but that is it.

What's the best amount of success he can get (get a ONS once a month) ?

If I invested invested single time, energy and money I have of my vacations on the task, it would be a ONS every week. But on a constantly sustainable manner, I would say once every month or so, but it would also mean I have nothing else to do.

How hard and time consumming is it to boost his value enough to get laid ?

Hum... I would say most men invest around 10-50% of their resources into getting laid. So... a lot.

The highest priorities to most men are, in decreasing order: Survival, sex, everything else.

ontherailstoday · 2020-02-05T16:59:21+00:00

> Let's say an average guy (in height and face) starts putting great amounts of effort

Effort has a cumulative effect. You don't get anywhere much overnight, you definitely don't get immediately to the same point as guys who have already been putting in effort for years. And usually those guys who have been putting in effort all along have been doing so in part because they see other benefits to being a healthy, well presented, well rounded and properly social person.

corey_trevorson · 2020-02-05T17:07:07+00:00

I don't measure my success based on how many ONS I can have with women, personally. I'm slightly above avg height and looks, pretty introverted and I still don't have much of an issue with women. I don't just do hobbies to break the ice with women though, I'm genuinely passionate about the activities I participate in. They're for ME.

darudeboysandstorm · 2020-02-05T17:56:29+00:00

life aint easy baby

M4sterDis4ster · 2020-02-05T21:02:18+00:00

Go to youtube and type in "PUA cringes". Report back what is the average.

illegallad · 2020-02-06T20:26:35+00:00

Gets with who though, that's the issue. Others have touched upon it but the real issue is supply and demand. I have higher standards and I maybe find 2-3/10 women I see attractive. Most either put in no effort into looking good or put in fake effort, meaning mastering camera angles and instagramesque makeup to look passable in photos, rather than putting in the serious work needed to look good in real life. Women are constantly talking about how men need to work harder, be more interesting, etc., when the vast majority of women are no prizes themselves leaving men to compete over the small segment that are actually hot.

eboy4hire · 2020-02-08T05:05:58+00:00

Ok so if you really want, yes you can get a ONS once a month. The chick will be fat as fuck, but that's how you guarantee your monthly success. Any other type of chick? Idfk... I get mixed signals from them. Sometimes I feel like I can only get them if I have the perfect zen mindset. Sometimes I feel like I could only get them if I was better looking. I've only fucked one girl that I was halfway attracted to and she was a 4'11" 90lb nerdy girl with some acne and she looked like she hadn't brushed her teeth in a while. All my other lays have been obese. I know I could get another fat chick, but I've had my fill of fat chicks.

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WIA20XX · 2020-02-05T13:15:44+00:00

You have to define effort and results.

2020-02-05T14:07:27+00:00

Depends on your definition of easy imo,

Ive worked positions in the past that are similar to sales (involve approaching lots of strangers), so its easy for me to go out and approach 10 or 100 or even 1000 women until i get a number, and make dates until i get laid. There is no failure, just growth and improvement.

You only need to get ONE steady compatible girlfriend to set you up for a lifetime, potentially, of sex. So many guys get discouraged by the initial work, and fail to realize that its a basically an investment in your future just like school or whatever... after a few months of approaching and sarging every day you are virtually guaranteed to have a harem. From there its just maintenance.

The brutal grind of tryna get girlz is just a temporary phase, after that hard work comes the maintenance cycle where you’re getting laid and have plates to sustain you if one drops off. Alternatively you could find one solid girl who’s a freak and not even need the side pieces.

41013 · 2020-02-05T17:08:44+00:00

The average man isn’t happy with what “tries and puts effort” gets him.

This is the case for both genders though

yuckyuck13 · 2020-02-05T18:01:19+00:00

I wouldn't say easy but more effort does equate more results. Men who make serious effort to change for the better will always do better than a man who does nothing.

jonascf · 2020-02-05T19:20:37+00:00

It's not exactly for an average man, but it's not really hard either. Average is good enough and if the guy put in some time and effort (although a lot of the effort can be the fun kind of effort) he'll be able to land a gf that he is genuinely attracted to or perhaps an fwb if thats more to his liking.

Source: am average in all ways except income (way below average there) and somewhat succesful when it comes to stuff like that.

blackedoutfast · 2020-02-05T19:42:59+00:00

you just need to be average or better in every way that matters

it's not just about being average overall, you need to be average+ in looks AND average+ in social skills AND average+ in money, etc.

if you're below average in one area, then you can't make up for it by being merely above average in a different area. you need to be exceptionally good looking or rich or whatever if you want chicks to ignore the fact that you're a broke loser or ugly or weird.

Let's say an average guy (in height and face) starts putting great amounts of effort into dating (dress, haircut, sport, getting interesting hobbies, getring smoother with flirting, etc..)

it's not just about the amount of effort you put in. you need to do the right things that will actually help.

but if a truly average looking guy learns to be smooth with women, the sky is the limit.

the difference between an average looking guy with game and an extremely good looking guy with game is just that it will be easier for the very hot guy. women will notice the hot guy first and will tolerate more mistakes and occasional awkwardness from him. but the average looking guy who knows what to do and actually goes out and does it can have just as many hookups and ONS and fuck girls who are just as hot as the ones the good looking guy is fucking.

Iron-Giant169 · 2020-02-05T19:46:11+00:00

SDW137 · 2020-02-06T02:00:39+00:00

The truth is somewhere in the middle between those 2 extremes. But no, it's not "easy" for the average man if he just tries and puts in effort.

lionhart280 · 2020-02-07T02:22:31+00:00

The bar is so low on men, a guy who showers regularely, isn't socially awkward (just getting experience by going out and flirting), put efforts into his look (dress well + haircut + stays fit) is already top 20%.

It ain't THAT low fam.

You gotta also be able to hold a convo and not be a huge fucking prick.

That last one is where most people fail tbh.

Like literally just go browse the posts on /r/NiceGuys to see where the bar is.

You're issue is you think theres like either 'attractive' vs 'not'

But everyone has different tastes, needs, wants, dreams, fears.

Fundamentally, people seek what they feel they 'missed out on' in their childhood.

If a lady lacked physical affection growing up, she wants a guy who's a really good cuddler.

If she lacked affirmation and validation growing up.. She seeks a guy who affirms and validates her.

If she lacked stability and security growing up, she wants a guy who makes her feel safe and secure.

Etc etc. Everyone has 'something' they lacked and now crave.

Figure out what you bring to the table, and what you crave.

Find a partner who provides what you want, and who craves what you got.

That's. It.

gimpgirl555 · 2020-02-05T09:44:42+00:00

So where is the reality ? Let's say an average guy (in height and face) starts putting great amounts of effort into dating (dress, haircut, sport, getting interesting hobbies, getring smoother with flirting, etc..)

That's way too much effort. Just be clean and don't be weird.

What's the best amount of success he can get (get a ONS once a month) ? How hard and time consumming is it to boost his value enough to get laid ?

Civilian women are not for sex. They will have sex with you but it's going to suck. Just pay for it. It's less effort and cheaper in the long run. Also you get to pick what you want.

Here's the trick to getting laid: "I expect sex on the second date the latest". If a girl refuses move on to the next one.

Also don't pay for dates obv.

Title	Is it easy for an average man if he just tries and puts effort ?
Author	MirrorThaoss
Upvotes	14
Comments	194
Date	February 5, 2020 9:38 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ez74b2/is_it_easy_for_an_average_man_if_he_just_tries/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-easy-for-an-average-man-if-he-just-tries-and.330430 https://theredarchive.com/post/330430

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