659,329 posts

Financial Advice from a Financier

by legedu | August 22, 2015 | TheRedPill


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Summary - 3 paths to wealth: ownership, sales, and specialization. All three require investment. Red Pill concepts must be mastered to succeed in the first two, which also require less to start.

Body - As I mentioned in previous posts, I work in Wealth Management. Contrary to what the bulk of reddit believes, most well off and wealthy people (in the U.S. anyway) did not inherit their wealth. The top .001% is a different story. But the 1%? Over half of those people don't even fit the definition of what wealthy truly means. 1% starts at $400k/year in income for a household... that's middle class.

In my experience, most well off and wealthy people come from lower-middle-class families. There's some misinformation on what this means, especially here on reddit, but lower-middle-class is usually defined as owning property and not living paycheck to paycheck. They can afford to put their kids through private school, but may choose not to. Usually these people are salaried employees who make a good living but do not possess a high ceiling to break into the wealthy class. When this fact dawns on their children (usually around 15-25 years old), they usually make it their mission to do so.

There are three paths to real wealth: ownership, sales, and specialization.

1. OWNERSHIP - This is just what it sounds like: owning something. A business, a building, land, oil rights, equity etc. Usually ownership goes hand and hand with Passive Income, which means that if you're in Argentina or Italy or Turkey smashing on some strange, you're making money anyway.

Passive Income allows you to focus your time on ways to expand your Earned Income or new ventures for Passive Income. The more Passive Income you have, the more money you make just by breathing.

Buildings, land, and property are all usually good investments. Owning your home, however, should not be seen as an investment. Yes, you build equity and have ownership, but it doesn't provide you a revenue stream. A rental does. If you're making an extra $4,000 a month on renting out a place, do you give a fuck that the market value of the property went down by 30%? I don't. Cash the fucking checks and turn off the news.

Owning stocks/bonds usually provide you a revenue stream (if you buy and hold), and are filed under ownership as well, since you either own equity or debt in/of a company.

More examples: A guy makes 200k a year for 30 years, and he receives raises that go up with inflation. Saves up for a down payment for years. He buys a $1.4 million dollar house. Pays the mortgage for 30 years. Retires with the house paid off and lives off his 401k. Not the slightest bit wealthy. Comfortable? Sure, but what has the Red Pill taught you about being comfortable? If you make 200k for 30 years and all you have to show for it is a little comfort you should fucking off yourself.

Same guy makes 100k a year with raises that match inflation. He saves enough to put 5% down on a 1 br condo by the beach getting and gets a shitty mortgage to finance it. He turns it into a vacation rental. Rental blows away his mortgage payment and he can now save twice as fast. He saves up a 20% down payment this time and buys a two bedroom condo by the beach. Rinse and repeat, increasing scale each time. This same guy could quit work at 40 and live off his revenue streams the rest of his life. Or he could keep at it and become first generation wealthy.

Business Ownership usually involves much more commitment, initial investment (of time and--usually--money), but can absolutely CRUSH what you can do with property. Look at the guy who started Home Brew Mart / Ballast Point Brewery. Just a guy who thought the beer in the 90's was shit and wanted to make beer that tasted good. That fucker is first generation rich. But he's 20+ years invested. You think he needs to manage day-to-day operations now? Fuck that, he pays people who pay people to do that.

Property and business ownership require the ability to negotiate, manipulate, and--most importantly--create value (in yourself and something else). The most successful people in these fields have Red Pill / Dark Triad traits, even the women.

2. SALES - You 1) FIND, 2) CONVINCE, and 3) GET THE SIGNATURE ON THE LINE THAT IS DOTTED from someone who is receiving something they want or need. All three parts are of equal importance. Some people are incredible marketers, some can convince people that Jesus really did heal them with the holy water, and some can knock it dead on the close. Rarely can someone do all three.

The ones that can (and who are selling something of extreme value), are usually well on their way to being wealthy. Look at the best real estate agents in your area... those guys (and gals) fucking crush it. You think you can do what they do? No, you can't. Not without a fuck ton of work perfecting your craft and 15 hour days. And, by the way, they make a lot more than you think they do.

In sales, you eat what you kill. It's truly the 21st-century adaptation of the alpha.

What's great about sales is that it literally requires no start-up cost other than some time and energy. Borrow a suit, buy Zig Ziglar's books for 1 cent online, and get to fucking work. This is the most Red Pill of the three, and it will bleed into all aspects of your life more than anything you can imagine. You become more social and fun to be around... people see you as likable, but you still get shit done. People will respect you more because you will show them value in things. In general, others will desire to be around you. You dress well, you speak well, and you become a master of giving people what they desire: for a price.

3. SPECIALIZATION - Not going to cover this one as deep, as it usually requires a ton of school or a lot of alone time (coders, for example). Usually 12-15 years of training. Think of brain surgeons, super specialized engineers, business consultants for narrow fields, investment banking (blend of sales and specialization). You usually have to get into this fairly early in life. The other two can be done at any point.

Take Away - Think you have internalized your Red Pill concepts? Do you desire wealth? Then quit wasting the most scarce resource of all: your time. Get to work and build a better life for yourself.

Edit: grammar.

Post Information
Title Financial Advice from a Financier
Author legedu
Upvotes 613
Comments 246
Date 22 August 2015 04:25 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/35773
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3hzcvn/financial_advice_from_a_financier/
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[–]Namaste1994170 points171 points  (6 children) | Copy

Solid post with a breath of fresh air from the AWALT posts that finds itself on here with useful advice that could be applied by anyone who commits themselves.

[–]1legedu[S] 88 points89 points  (4 children) | Copy

Thanks. That's actually what I was shooting for since there have been a lot of anger-phasers posting lately.

[–]Namaste199437 points38 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing wrong with them venting their anger(the more awoken brethren the better) but there needs to be more useful posts for those who have moved on past that and this was one for me (21 years young, senior in college) who is looking ahead into the future.

[–]SilverWolfeBlade18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can't really blame the newcomers, they're fresh and so is their pain, what we all went through. But I concur, perhaps we can do something like the fit subreddit, as in each day of the week is subscribed to an aspect of trp.

In my opinion- this model, we would allow the newcomers to vent with each other, read, read and again- read the sidebar material.

But it would also be beneficial to include business models, success models, self improvement models, field reports etc.

[–]semondemon241 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Would you recommend mixing? Make money with sales and then go into ownership?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Have you read on wall street playboys? What's your take on their approach?

[–]glottony0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We totally need a "money and work" section here, yesterday

[–][deleted] 80 points81 points  (45 children) | Copy

  1. SPECIALIZATION - Not going to cover this one as deep, as it usually requires a ton of school or a lot of alone time (coders, for example). Usually 12-15 years of training. Think of brain surgeons, super specialized engineers, business consultants for narrow fields, investment banking (blend of sales and specialization). You usually have to get into this fairly early in life. The other two can be done at any point.

If you want to write clean good code where people are willing to pay for high level biz application, you can get to that lvl in 3 years if you want.

Let's say you wrote code for the past 5 years, you have reached senior level, people love your code, you do freelancing etc...

But you are still trading time for money, this is not going to work out. You are making other people rich and they know that.

Instead one should just learn to code and take programming as a tool, as another tool in his toolbelt.

The next step would be to talk to people to identify their problems, their pain points where they are willing to pay money for a solution which you wrote.

You could then create a SaaS ( Software as a Service product, basically a web application ) where they pay on a monthly basis. That's the real shit, you are not trading money for time, instead you generate money while you are sleeping.

I'll give you an example:

You: Hey Jane how is work?

Jane: Well it sucks right now, I lose 2 hours every day simply because I have to calculate xxxxx and there is no solution for that.

You: Would you pay for a tool which would automate that so you could save 2 hours every day? Jane: Sure but there is no tool out there!

You: I write code, I can build that!

Jane: Great, let's talk about that.

I talk to everyone, I ask what they work, how they like their work, what are their pain points.

[–]1legedu[S] 56 points57 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is a good example of all three. You have a specialization, you sought out a client, convinced them of the need, and now OWN a product that you can SELL (and hopefully generate a recurring revenue stream).

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

Totally agree, this again shows how people should treat programming, not like a higher art but rather as a tool.

[–]TheJessee 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy

Programming is something you can really excel at and set yourself apart from your peers, because most of them are socially awkward and will usually end up working for someone else rather than making a product themselves, i see this in my class (going for a bachelor in IT and doing a lot of coding on the side to get really good at it)

They do fuck all to set themselves apart, they're smart but they have no plans to do anything except go work for a company, become a sysadmin, make some tools generating money for other people, really nothing to set them apart and make tons of money, if you can be a programmer and have the mindset to make money for yourself, you're a walking goldmine these days, one of my friends, he's around 30 and he makes websites and applications with a friend of his that he rents out to companies for them to use, his company makes $30k+ a month and they're investing that increasing their profit even further, think about it, he went his own way and he's now 30 and making $15k a month with a friend

And this applies for every field, get amazing at whatever you do, create a need for yourself and sell yourself

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have seen the same people you decribe there, I've also seen people how just want to get into that 9 to 5.

I don't blame them, everyone should do what he/she desires.

[–]ZioFascist3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

this. coding is a tool, not a job/career

[–]ferengiprophet6 points7 points  (26 children) | Copy

What's the best way to learn that skill: university degree, certifications, books, or online schools?

[–]Gelu_sf47 points48 points  (15 children) | Copy

Programming requires a certain mindset and solid algorithmic thinking. If you can do that, you can basically code.

If you plan to start on programming start with any language you feel comfortable with, and build some projects for which you have very clear goals. The biggest mistake is to just try to learn programming random stuff. It won't work.

I work in development and the best thing anyone can do this field (as an example) is to make a Tetris or Breakout like game. Everyone and their mom knows Tetris, however it will teach you logic, data structures, loops and everything you need.

Sure, it doesn't contain databases, network connections, logins and whatever else, but what's stopping you of making "Network Tetris 2.0 MMO" after you've finished the first one ? :)

Last but not least, don't focus on any particular language as long as it can do what you need. People make the mistake of saying "But I know C! what if I need to use VBA? I'll re-learn everything from scratch!" Wrong! 1+1 is the same, it's just spelled differently.

Edit: some more stuff

[–]securitycamspacejam1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

"solid algorithmic thinking"

that's a problem I'm having. did anything help you? Or was it something you were just born with?

[–]Gelu_sf4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well... is it easy to take apart things and put them back? Can you figure out how things work? Did you play with legos when you were a kid and made things that you wanted to from the beginning ? If the answer is yes , you have it.

If not, then... it's a bit more difficult. My advice is to try to make something that you're familiar with and educate yourself into the step by step thinking process.

Algorithmic thinking boils down to two things: * Breaking down any bigger problem into smaller more manageable problems (and figuring out the order * Asking "How do I do this" about every single process of the problem until all your answers are trivial.

[–]leredditaccounts2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

Any good advice for learning OOP concepts such as good class design, and especially this in conjunction with graphical APIs like DX or OpenGL? Books especially are appreciated

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (3 children) | Copy

Be aware of paradigm shifts, we are going through one at the moment. I started programming when the shift to OO really got underway in the 80s. Before that it was all Pascal, C, FORTRAN and COBOL. Then we had 25 years of OO domination of the industry, with C++, Smalltalk (fastest growing language in the 90s, until the vendors fucked it up), Java, Python and Ruby (those last two being the best to start with, I would say).

OO solved, or at least mitigated, the problem that programs were becoming large and complex. The problem now is that we are hitting the limits on how fast a chip can be made to run, so the solution has been multi-core and multi-cpu. But parallel processing isn't something that OO helps you with, so we have an ongoing paradigm shift to functional programming, because functions without side-effects do help this. Apple saw this with Swift, which combines OO with functional ideas, and Clojure brings Lisp back into the mainstream, but new languages like Elixir are worth looking at, too.

If you know one language in a paradigm, learning others is easy. I know 22 at the moment. You spend most time on the class libraries that come with the language. Going to a new paradigm takes a lot more thought, because you have to learn to think in a different way. Right now, I would get comfortable in both an OO language (such as Ruby, Python or Java) and a functional language (such as Clojure, Erlang, or Elixir) to give you a path forwards.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]rpscrote6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

former programmer here and I could not agree more with what he says.

The other paradigm shift is away from relational databases to key-value stores and other non-SQL databases that scale horizontally (sharding, replication, etc.).

So learn: 1) OO language (ruby, python, java, .net), 2) learn a functional language, or at least a functional paradigm in a mixed language (like Javascript) or hardcore functional (erlang, haskell), 3) Learn SQL, 4) Learn a popular No SQL Big Data DB (CouchDB, MongoDB, Cassandra, Hadoop).

One way to hit all of this is to learn the "MEAN" stack without making the mistake of thinking you NEED a stack, rather its just an easy starting point. Mean = MongoDB, Express, Angular.js, Node.js.

Node.js is a great way to learn web architecture, object oriented and functional paradigms simultaneously.

If you decide to go Clojure, that is built on Java so it would be wise to learn those as a pair.

[–]samosiazosia12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Read code. The bigger code base the better. Check out iD Software's github, Carmack is a genius. Also check Fabien Sanglard's website. You'll digg it.

[–]crack_tobi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I checked the website, some good shit ryt there.

[–]leredditaccounts1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man! I did check it out. I had a lot of fun just learning the features of c++. I struggled slightly with pointers at first but they didn't really make me feel c++ shouldn't be a first language. Once I learn good design I can start putting things together and making my first real significant programs hopefully

[–]Gelu_sf3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

OOP is just a tool. It's a good way to break up your code into self-contained sections that run independently. Don't think of oop like something that has to run in conjunction with one API or another.

The best thing that you can do is understand when OOP is good, and when the classic way of doing things is better and more efficient. Now, whenever somebody starts learning the oop ways they go hardcore into it, trying to apply things like in a school project. Basically try avoid creating a templated multiple inherited class when adding 2 numbers :) and understand that goto is a beautiful thing sometimes. (I'm gonna get downvoted into oblivion for typing this).

To answer things more precisely, read the code of the forefathers. Look at the old doom/quake engines. You'll see how beautiful and simple things can be done in both oop and non-oop ways. There is no wizardry going on as long as you have clear goals. Also look into the "Divide et impera" programming method.

[–]rpscrote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

i've found the mix of ocassional procedural functions, OO and functional paradigm when the situation is right for each solves for nearly any problem. It would help if I was less shitty at functional

[–]ManNoob0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I was having a tough time getting my head wrapped around OOP. I had a tendency to over think it. Then I read this book and it helped me out alot.


[–]leredditaccounts1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out dude. This looks like the kinda stuff I need to help me wrap my head around designing classes to get shit done in OOP fashion

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

It depends on what kind of programming you want to do.

Basically everything can be done without a uni degree. A lot of my friends are self tought, and they are very good at it.

Employer love dedication, if you love to write code, you can always get a good job.

We are in times where all resources are available online.

Here is a list of video platforms.

good for mobile development but also for web development

Udemy - A huge site with every topic you could possible think off

University Lvl courses online!


The best way to learn programming is to try to solve your own problems first.

For example you play football and your team got no teampage, so you start with html, css3, javascript to build that teampage.

Or you love stocks, then you write a info site for stocks where people could see the current states etc..

This is going to build up your portfolio which you then can show to future employer.

[–]ferengiprophet2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

[–]TheRealBruce138 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

If you want to get into practical programming use this: http://www.amazon.com/Automate-Boring-Stuff-Python-Programming/dp/1593275994

It can save you a lot of time in your everyday work and offers a gentle introduction to programming.

[–]MrLelvis5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Python was the first language I learned to code in. It's an excellent one for a beginner to start with, it's very clean and precise.

[–]greenovni3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Because of limited resources (but plenty of time) I recently signed up for Free Code Camp This one specializes in teaching you to code and then using your skills to build real solutions for non-profit organizations which become part of your portfolio.

There are many other resources out there to help you out like https://www.codecademy.com/ etc.

[–]TheJessee 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Good to see there's fellow campers out here, I started out my basic programming on codecadamy , it does provide good basics to get started with, but the appealing part of free code camp is that you get to work on non-profits which indeed get part of your portfolio, so i aspire to finish that by the time i finish college which should give me a good head start compared to my peers since i'll have plenty of experience working on actual professional projects, something school often lacks

[–]greenovni0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Are you on free code camp now?

[–]life_is_amazing1001 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Your thoughts on the ServiceNow product thats currently on the market which focuses on SaaS softwares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You are talking about that company?

[–]life_is_amazing1001 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, I recently started working a company that specialises in the implementation of their product and it seem's as though they're quickly trying to monopolise the development of SaaS products for their system through a platform that charges you for developing SaaS software. Do you think that this'll be an issue for anyone considering specialising in the creating SaaS products or not/ if it is how would you go about avoiding it?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No I don't think that they will have a huge impact on us, simply because not everyone will adopt to their stuff.

The other point is that there are still so many niches which are just too small for them to solve their problems with a generic solution.

I only see one enemy for SaaS creater, it's building trust.

It's if your customers are trusting you that their data is save in the cloud.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

My plan right now is to land an internship in any tech solutions company (start up or otherwise) and obtain experience and see what makes them successful before I venture out on my own.

Great idea!

I strongly believe that someone who wants to lead needs first to learn how to follow.

Listen to your boss very carefully, you will ask often 'how we are going to proceed or what's next'.

They have to make decisions about a product or a customer, usually their decision is based on logic and how to maximize profit. Ask them why they did that, almost all CEO's or CTO's will like that question and they are going to explain why they decided to do so.

The next thing is about the technology and the stack.

Ask them why the choose that language/server/platform for that specific app.

It's often very important to choose the right language/framework/dev-stack.

Those decision should be made by the following rules:

  1. How good is the support? Are those guys are going to develop and maintain that framework? A good example for an amazing support would be Spring MVC Java.

  2. How many questions are on stackoverflow? Often you fall in love with a framework and there aren't even 2k questions. You will have a hard time figuring out how to solve problem x.

  3. How good is the eco system ? Are there many plugins and libs? For example obv. you could write your own pdf lib but that takes time and you could simply add a plugin which someone else already solved for you. With a unknown framework with a bad community you have to write it by yourself which takes your valuble time.

Usually I pick my tools/frameworks with that list in mind.


The art to create a product and test the market. This is a very important skill to have, which is described here

You basically keep your idea and product as minimum as possible to just test the market, if your response is good you add more features. Programmers tend to fall into feature creep where we keep on adding features no one is going to use.

But we think that they will, the truth is, if your product isn't good enough as a MVP, it won't be good with 1000 more features.

If it fails, move on to your next idea.

Then watch every video on that site

It's just amazing.

In my opinion the most important advice I could give:

I don't believe that someone needs to came up with something totally new, often it's just good to make something better.

If there is competition, there is value in that field. It's ok to just copy that and make it fast/better or just better looking/cheaper.

We don't have to be afraid just because someone already entered that niche/field.

The last thing: never give up, I failed about 10 times, wasted 2k hours on coding for a product no one wanted to buy.

My 10th product was a success.

And never stop working out, never !


Linux knowledge saved my a shitload of money.


Keep on writing unit test, have a strong test coverage, with a good test coverage you won't be afraid of deploying your new feature in very short cicles.

No test no beer!

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Glad I could help out.

That all comes from running against the wall and failing very hard :)

[–]TheJessee 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Best advice my teacher has ever given, every time you enter something new in your program, test it, this saves a lot of time in the end when you try to figure out what's wrong

PS: what was your 10th product?

Not interested in the name but what kind of application it was

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

this saves a lot of time in the end when you try to figure out what's wrong


I wrote a SaaS for social workers who work with retarded kids.

[–]solmiler1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Could you please recommend some programming languages and resources.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of people would recommend Python or Ruby as a first language.

They are right, those languages are dynamic languages where you don't have to think about types ( not from the start ).

You can set them up very easy on every maschine and the entry level is very low as well.

But I would recommend to go the extra mile with Java or C#.

I started with C, I hated it, It gave errors all the time, it took me way longer to grasp concepts where I could get to the same results in Ruby or Python with 80% less lines of code.

BUT ... I wouldn't do it differently if I'd had to start over again.

I think you can't go wrong with Java, simply because it's a mature language, there is a shitload of resources on the internet ( just google for Java tutorial ).

Even if you don't like it and you stop after 4-5 months just to switch to Ruby or Python, you are going to be very thankful what Java taught you.

If you know Java, you can learn any language on a rainy sunday afternoon ( at least the snytax and the basics ).

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy


[–]1RedDragon414 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Dude thank you!!! I have a house I have been renting out that I was trying to get my renter to finance and buy (dude has terrible credit but has paid every month) I know I can get him to rent to own as we had talked about it previously. If he fucks himself (as he will) I wont take the hit and I'll have even more of my mortgage paid off while making some cash off it. NICE! Another thing to check out is 1031 Tax exchanges. I'm a pick-up coach and one of my students made a KILLING doing 1031 after 1031. Basically you get the value of your house (Say $200,000) PLUS whatever your debt is (Say its worth 200K but you owe 100K still) The Gov gives you $300,000 to purchase "like-kind" property which is essentially another property worth that much or multiple properties that add up to that amount.

[–]hugeveinycock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's not how a 10-31 exchange works at all.

[–]ProspectiveQuant3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Why does the government give you money to buy property with for free? That's some next level welfare right there. Holy fuck!

Also, how do you fuck these people over exactly? Like, why doesn't the money people pay you for, say, 12 months go towards the value of them owning the house when you have sold it to them, and thus you owe them their 12 months of payments back when they default and you kick them out?

[–]ManNoob6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not sure that RedDragon41 has that right. 1031 basically let's you sell your investment property and re-invest all of your proceeds into a similar property. So if you sell a property for 200k that you bought for, let's say 150K, you wouldn't have to pay capital gains on the 50K. It allows you to reinvest all of your equity in a new property (these are the proceeds after paying off the mortgage).

The government isn't really giving you money. You are just deferring your capital gains to a later time. Eventually, when you cash out (by selling the property and not re-investing in a new one) you will have to pay the capital gains for all of the properties you rolled. But you are really focused on cash flow over the long term rather than cap gains so you can make this work if you are smart about it.

[–]ProspectiveQuant0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok, fine, so the government basically lets you defer taxes indefinitely to encourage the use of properties as rentals?

Kind of weird...but not as crazy as it sounded.

[–]1RedDragon410 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

1031 is a tax loop hole that people use to build wealth and empires. Its crazy! I didn't believe it when I found out about it until I did some research for it. When people default they are typically breaking contracts they signed saying they would pay in full. You figure with the time it takes to list a property, have agents handle the process or get the paper work written up all takes time. If a property is not occupied its losing money. Same as if you were to buy a house through a mortgage and defaulted on your loan the bank isn't going to give you back the money you paid up until then.

[–]ProspectiveQuant-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why would anyone ever sign such a contract?...

[–]The Red Pill RoomIanIronwood11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Addendum: Residual income from intellectual property.

[–]Gemini14240 points41 points  (11 children) | Copy

Good info for the most part. But lets not kid ourselves, being able to send kids to private schools for 30-40k per year is far above the budget of real middle class families. I have no idea why you also make the top 1% the cutoff for middle class. 400k a year is an enormous amount of money. Maybe you should come back down to earth, all your clients may have that kind of money but it is far from the norm.

[–]1legedu[S] 11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

Upper middle class is quite affluent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class

Also, 400k/year is where a household enters the top 1% of income. My point is that 400k a year is not considered wealthy in and of itself.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Mr_Andry19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. Wealth is when your money makes money. A high earner is still a grinder.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Too many ramp up their lifestyle and spend everything. Equity is the long game, and living well can kill it.

Excellent posting, by the way.

[–]ProspectiveQuant0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gotta balance a bit though...pretty fucking pointless to earn millions/billions without ever spending any of it.

[–]Gemini1426 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yes and most of the country that identifies as middle class has income between 40-95k per individual, double that range for households. The upper middle class is in another league.

Someone who makes 400k a year has virtually nothing in common with someone making 50k. That is my point, these are both "middle class" but the delineation should be clear. So no, the majority of middle class families cannot afford private school, not even close.

Not to mention that these categorizations only include income, not wealth which is incredibly skewed to the top 1%. Most middle class families have more debt than assets.

Perhaps this will illimunate you as to the actual financial situation in this country. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM&t=1m30s

The more I think about it the more I'm shocked that a "Financier" would have such a warped view of wealth.

[–]ProspectiveQuant6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why would you be shocked? If you work in wealth management, the only people you ever interact with are people that are wealthy. So that becomes your new normal really fast.

[–]Gemini1420 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm a Physics Graduate Student. I work with socially inept but otherwise brilliant people every day. Do I really think that being able to memorize table integrals or simulating nuclear explosions but unable to chat up a girl are normal traits? No because I'm not retarded.

[–]ProspectiveQuant1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's a very rare trait though. Haven't you ever noticed that the vast majority of humans are unable to see beyond their personal contexts?

[–]Gemini1420 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of the main points of TRP is to see past and understand the biases in society.

[–]Darthstacker28 points29 points  (52 children) | Copy

I'm a licensed financial advisor and I agree with everything you wrote. The only thing I would add is personality type. If you are a risk taker then #1 is for you especially if you already have access to some capital. #2 is the most difficult and you really need to have the personality for it and work your cock off for years to make it happen. #3 is good for smart people that aren't risk takers or have the dominant/attractive persona to be in sales. I'd say #3 is also the most sure way to riches especially if you are in the medical field.

[–]1legedu[S] 22 points23 points  (8 children) | Copy

I agree with your assessment of the personality types. Though I think with work you can overcome it (I used to be shy by nature, now when I'm in a sales situation I'm an unabashed extrovert).

I would say business ownership is the most sure way to riches, not specialization. Unless a doctor owns his own practice or has some other way leveraging ownership. But that gets back to my point: no matter what, the owner gets the biggest slice of the pie.

[–]josephgene2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's where I struggle. I know the only way to be independently wealthy is to have my own practice but im in no way interested in the start up of one.

The benefits to owning one's own practice allows for complete independence and complete wealth, this is for sure. However, I would have to hire someone to do all management work since I honestly don't want to devote any time away from treating and curing.

Any advice?

[–]rpscrote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your answer is right there. Hire someone to do all the management work. Or associate with someone who will do the management work

Another answer would be to get into a partnership with other people in your line of business more inclined to do the business admin, ensure you get a lawyer to look over the llc/parternship agreement and make sure you get equity for putting in the actual service offering (treating and curing). Then you have ownership but get to do the actual work you want.

The hard part is finding a reliable and trustworthy partner(s).

[–]Darthstacker3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you. Specialization is great for being $1-5 million rich. Business owners tend to be much richer but I think a more guaranteed path is being educated and specialized. It's all up in the air though.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy

Very well put. You and the OP have really put things into perspective for me. I'm probably a #2, but I've been brainwashed by the education and society to think that #3 is the only way to go. I'm 16 and have started a couple online businesses (to show I'm serious, I made $30k in revenues). My question for you is: should I go to college? I would go for free (scholarships), save opportunity cost. I can't imagine myself doing anything else besides hustling on some entrepreneurial ventures. Either way, I don't want to spend a cent for what I could easily teach myself.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

Wtf are you going to learn in college that you can't teach yourself? Sounds to me like you're already creating revenue streams. Why on earth would you put that on hold, or the back burner, or ANYWHERE other than front and center?

Degrees don't sell shit. Degrees don't guarantee success. And they sure as shit don't make you any smarter or hungrier than you already are. Fuck school. Make money bro.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I know this is the answer, and it's probably what I need to do. But taking a risk, getting off the social track society has laid down for me, and actually putting it into practice is scary as hell. I definitely don't want to stay with my folks any longer than I have to. I'm wondering if I could rent a place across the country — then again, who would rent with a 16 year old? What kind of a social life would I have? What if I fail and am left degree-less with no job prospects? So many doubts, but ultimately I know the right move isn't the simple beaten path that lies ahead.

[–]RPJapan2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Read the 50th law of power, I think you'll find it very useful.

[–]AUAUA2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

College is a professor holding your hand and explaining, usually ONE book over the course of three months. It will go to slow for you.

[–]ProspectiveQuant4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was in the same position at 16 and made the wrong decision to go to school.

You will be infinitely better off pursuing your businesses.

[–]KeithStone30rack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nicely done.

One option to look at would be enrolling in something like college in the high school (it is called Running Start in the greater Seattle area) and take high school classes at your local community college. The benefit of this will be gaining credits that you can use if you decide to go to college. If you don't go to college, you will always have those credits saved and can use them if you decide to go to college later on in life.

I would focus my time on building businesses that are valuable and networking with successful individuals to learn more skills. You can have a fall back plan by knocking out two years of community college and be able to get into college if you decide to go later in life.

[–]Darthstacker1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hats off to you for your online businesses. As far as college goes, it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a doctor, engineer or architect then yes go to school. But some of the richest clients I have don't have any education they are just smart and they hustle. One client I have does landscaping at all the top golf courses in this area and he makes about $1mm per year and is worth about $10mm. Another client is a heart surgeon and makes about $2mm per year but spends it all so he's nearly broke.

Like I said before, #3 is the safer route but the other 2 choices probably have higher potential earnings.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (33 children) | Copy

I have a masters in finance and am a CFA charterholder who specializes in fixed income. What is a licensed financial advisor? What license do you have? What body gave you this license? I am not aware of ANYBODY (who is legitimately) in this industry that would refer to themselves as a licensed financial advisor.

[–]InflatableRaft9 points10 points  (15 children) | Copy

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission licences Financial Advisors in Australia. You need to be licenced by ASIC to provide financial advice and there are heavily legal penalties for unlicenced people providing it. It could be a similar situation in other countries.

[–]Hatorader5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy

Yeah but in America when someone refers to themselves as a financial advisor it can very well mean they just work for some scam company like Ameriprise. I mean don't get me wrong, a monkey could do any job on Wall Street. Which confuses me as to why all the hyper-credentialism infects big firms like Goldman Sachs. These firms hire all these people from top business schools and they get status, but any moron can do the job of an analyst really or whatever else his title is. For example, a lot of Asians get jobs as analysts after they graduate with their awesome degrees. But these firms don't know that these Asians cheated and paid to have their coursework done for them. I've had Asians paying me to do their college projects for them, write papers, do their homework, etc. It's fuckin hilarious.

[–]TheRealBruce133 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is is simply false. I know a lot of people working at frims like GM, JP Morgan and Jane Street Capital, and none of them comes from a business school or an Ivy. One studied signal processing in an obscure french school and works as an equity trader while another one is a data scientist writting python and R code: he got a PhD in physics from a russian university. Sure coming from Wharton or Harvard will open some doors but people on wall street have a surprisingly diverse background.

[–]werdya3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Btw for people who aren't in finance industry, everything he said after the word 'monkey' is pretty much rubbish. In fact, only a monkey could possibly believe that is true. Let's also ignore the racist stuff about how 'these Asians' cheated and paid for degree and coursework. It's astonishing that people believe this stuff.

[–]Hatorader-3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Oh yeah cause Asians would never pay to get something or cheat on anything. Just like how they would never pay $50k and up to come to America to lay their eggs for citizenship. They just pop up out of nowhere and no one questions anything. Nothing like throwing out the racism accusation when you're losing an argument eh.

[–]werdya0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Oh yeah cos any meaningful number of Asians with finance jobs do that. Shit up you fucking racist

[–]Hatorader 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy

It's a fact, deception is their m.o., it's is in their culture and it's obvious. You've never spoken to a Jap and a Korean and they're being extremely agreeable and polite to the point that it's over the top? Being overtly polite for no reason. Their is a reason. Their childish under-evolved brain thinks it works to cover up any ill intention and they're too stupid to realize how obvious it is. And why would they realize it, since that easily seen through pathetic facade works on so many dumb ass Americans. It especially works when it's an Asian girl and a thirsty white guy. Like I said before, just because I'm telling the truth doesn't mean I'm racist, and how could I be racist, that word is just made up, like the word feminism and meninism, to scare people into being politically correct and not point out the obvious, which; guessing by all the comments I'm getting isn't that obvious. Either that or you're all Asians and you're mad that you've been figured out. I'm not responding to anymore comments on this stupid fucking thread.

[–]werdya2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

No you're just an idiot. The world has rightly has no time for your particular brand of idiocy (racism).

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy

If any monkey can get a job as an analyst I encourage you to go get a job as one.

[–]Hatorader1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I didn't say any monkey can get a job, I said any monkey can do the job. English as a second language huh?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

So you should be able to demonstrate the skills of a monkey and get a job on wall st.

Which confuses me as to why all the hyper-credentialism infects big firms like Goldman Sachs.

You are confused because it doesn't.

[–]Hatorader 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy

You have a masters but you don't understand that getting the job and doing the job are completely different things? I don't think you understand anything in my initial comment at all.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have no idea how wall st works and the kinds of people that are working for large firms there now. I understand exactly what your initial comment said. It is simply wrong.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Easih1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

IA (Investment Advisor) and FIA (Financial Investment Advisor) These are slang acronyms that have no official meaning or standing with any accreditation body, but may be used by someone who is licensed as an Investment Advisor Representative.

You can become an advisor representative after passing series 65 exam in the US.

[–]Darthstacker1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Wow I hope you are not a US citizen or you are a complete troll, I have my SEC sanctioned NASD licensed series 66,7,31 and 2-15. You can look me up on www.brokercheck.org. If you really have your CFA then hats off to you, you are smart but you are a fucking retard when it comes to licensed financial advisors like me. Please tell me you are a foreigner because this is kindergarten shit. Have you ever heard of FINRA? Or the SEC?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (7 children) | Copy

LOL. With such gems as "my advice is to not buy a stock when it's at its peak" I really doubt you have any idea what the fuck you're talking about.

The fact that you use the phrase "licensed financial advisor" as opposed to the fucking correct term tells me all I need to know.

you are smart but you are a fucking retard when it comes to licensed financial advisors like me.

Again use the correct terms for what you are and I would be inclined to believe you. Are you really claiming that your licenses trump my CFA Charterholder (all 3 levels) status? Again that is a fucking joke.

You can look me up on www.brokercheck.org

Oh so I just plug your reddit username right in?

[–]ProspectiveQuant-3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy

How have you found a CFA to really impact your career prospects? What has it allowed you to do that you couldn't before, or how has it impacts your salary over the years?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

I also have a MS in finance from a top 10 school in the U.S. To be completely honest all that being a charterholder has done for me is allow me to work less hours while being paid a little less. I still make plenty of money but I make less than I did earlier in my career. I could easily take on more work and make more money but i have a good balance between work and pleasure now.

[–]ProspectiveQuant-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Interesting. How does it enable you to work less?

It would do nothing for you as someone without an MS in finance then right?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I am in a different position now than when I started my career. That's how I work less. I've taken a rather circuitous route in my career with some rather aimless periods where I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. Hence the masters and CFA charterholder status. It's hard to say how useful achieving CFA charterholder status is without knowing exactly what you want to do with your career. I could have become CFA without the masters but I believe the masters makes me better at my job due to acquired knowledge and skills.

[–]ProspectiveQuant-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

What do you do exactly (job title and actual day-to-day activities)? Is it actually lucrative? Or more like you just kind of manage to scrap by?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not going to say my job title because that coupled with other info I've given under this account may lead to y doxxing. I work in portfolio management at a mid size independent wealth management company. My area of expertise is fixed income but I construct and analyze all types of portfolios. I make more money than 97% of Americans. You can look up where that percentile puts me in terms of income.

[–]Darthstacker0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

At Morgan Stanley (you know that tiny little place on Wall St.) not one of the 17,000 of us refers to themselves as a RIA Registered Investment Advisor. All our compliance approved email signatures are FA Financial Advisor.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol are you really working for morgan stanley? I'm sorry.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't they have them for professional athletes? I heard it was mandatory. Don't quote me.

[–]Sdom1-3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not that it matters much in this context, but you know that describing yourself as a licensed financial advisor is a big no-no, right? I wouldn't even get in the habit of doing it, lest you slip up. The regulatory environment has gotten batshit fucking insane, CYA at all times.

This obviously doesn't apply if you list a license you hold, though there are some rules governing that depending on your role.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Again what the fuck is a licensed financial advisor? I have never used that phrase. I have said exactly what my qualifications and education are and simply doing that is not a "big no no" by any stretch of the imagination. I am well aware of the ethical implications regarding my position.

[–]Darthstacker1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Uhh, it's called FINRA look it up.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Uhh, I know exactly what FINRA is. And I know that they offer no designation of "licensed financial advisor".

[–]onenifty14 points15 points  (16 children) | Copy

Solid post! Ownership should be the #1 goal of every guy in here because it's attainable no matter your background or skill set.

There's a career path that may be of interest to some of the more technical guys in TRP as I know a lot of us come from a programming or other tech background. Technical sales is a very good field to be in. You're typically paired with a team of account executives whom you support during all technical parts of the sale. You don't have to initially be as good of a salesman as they are, as you're not the account owner, but you sure as hell learn the ropes quickly being around a team of sales guys that can produce. It's like being working with a group of alphas -- their skills will rub off on you way faster than you could pick them up yourself.

Some interesting blogs on the subject in decreasing order:
- http://www.thesalesengineer.com/all-posts/ (best blog on the subject)
- http://masteringtechnicalsales.blogspot.ca/ (the blog related to the book listed below)
- http://www.salesengineerguy.com/

Excellent books to get up to speed in decreasing order of importance:
- The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation
- Making the Technical Sale
- Mastering Technical Sales
- The Evolving Sales Engineer

I've also found great value in The Charisma Myth.

Unsurprisingly, everything we do here at TRP makes you a better man which makes you in turn a better salesman. Your charisma will increase, you will command more respect, and you will be more decisive and cutthroat -- all great attributes of a salesman. The above resources are very useful in building the mindset necessary to be an effective technical salesman.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy


[–]onenifty2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I work in the technical sales field. In short, the job entails being an active part of the sales cycle, moving deals forward, but acting more as a technical consultant for the field within which you hold your expertise. Say, for instance, you have a background in computer modelling. With your years of experience, you'd know all the programs, the trends, the gotchas, and be able to describe the field to an interested party. As long as you have the requisite domain knowledge as described above, you can learn the sales aspect of the conversation later.

Don't get me wrong, you still need people skills to get your foot in the door. Charisma goes a long way to securing such a position, but the barrier to entry is slightly lower because tech guys are given a pass due to our backgrounds.

When you ask for examples, is there something in particular you're looking for? I'm unsure how to best answer you.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]onenifty2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

That really depends on your passion. All technology must be sold to someone at some point, and there's a technical salesman involved in that sale if the deal is large enough. If you pinpoint your passion and have deep knowledge of that field, a little research will suss out who the major players are. Then it's just a matter of knocking down some doors.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]onenifty1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No problem. PM me if you want any tips and I'll help where I can.

[–]1InscrutablePUA1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

"The Charisma Myth" is great! I'm listening to it on audiobook right now. I'd even go so far as to say it's a modern successor to Dale Carnegie's classic. Thanks for the links... I'm a highly specialized engineer and definitely need to up my sales skills.

[–]onenifty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's indeed a fantastic book. Glad I could help!

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you for the fantastic comment.

[–]onenifty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're welcome, man. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Ive been reading up on techincal sales a lot lately. Im interested in more information. Ive heard of guys making $200k on average and $400k in good years. thesalesengineer.com is a good site. But I would love to hear more about what you have to say.

[–]onenifty1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You can indeed make an absolute killing over and above just being an engineer. You don't typically carry quota in the role, as that's the responsibility of the account executive, but you still take a share in the killing. If an account executive makes a 50/50 split base/commission, you'll likely make 65/35 or some variation on that.

thesalesengineer.com is indeed a good site. I'll edit my main comment with some more information. PM me also if you want to talk further.

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks mate. I'm heading out but I may well follow you up on that.

[–]onenifty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anytime. Please see the parent comment for the updated information.

[–]leredditaccounts3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read Tim Hale's Smarter Investing (it's UK focused which is good for me) and I definitely plan on taking up passive investing in funds sometime. But I still have a lot to learn as I'm not deep in the knowledge yet

[–]trpthrowcatch3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your definition of middle class is way off (by your definition I grew up lower middle class, despite having lawyers for parents and being one of the richest kids in my high school), but the rest is spot on, especially on specialization. It's not obvious, but those who are specialized into one very narrow thing make far more money than people who don't. That's because people who are looking for something are themselves looking for something specific, not general. If I'm looking for a lawyer to do a divorce, I'm more likely to hire a divorce specialist than one who does all sorts of law.

[–]recon_johnny10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Solid. This is a 50k foot view of wealth, but the concepts are strong and should be thought of by everyone here everyday.

[–]life_is_amazing1002 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

On #1, I'm currently working my way to save up some money and I'm considering your advice into branching out into business ownership. How much money do you think would be a good startoff for venturing into this field?

[–]TheDNote2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its clear these thoughts are still brewing, start by making a buissness plan and reading online advice blogs

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am about to start a 4 year Meng in civil engineering which will end up landing me in around £51k of debt. After I leave university and start earning, does it make sense to pay off the debt as fast as possible or start investing in the ownership method of wealth creation whilst paying off the college debt? (specialisation will be the main source of income). Thanks.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]nicechallenge1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Those are great questions. I was going to ask OP the same haha hopefully he answers.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]TRP VanguardCyralea2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm glad you made this post. There's a very common mantra on reddit that the rich are only rich because of luck. That's a huge lie. Redditors for the most part are mediocre, and revel in their mediocrity. Do not be anything like them.

My father came to this country with literally nothing, and made a fortune by saving every penny he had and buying a franchise. It's absolutely possible to get ahead, but you need to do what others aren't doing.

Honestly, the save and ownership route is so fucking simple I'm shocked more people don't apply it.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

4 years at uni made me realise people are shit at saving money. I'd say it's one of the few advantages I've gained from growing up relatively poor, I can and do save like a motherfucker.

[–]thomasbkin3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking awesome post! We need more stuff like this posted on TRP

[–]Hokuto199x4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Personally if doxxing wasn't a thing I'd be trying to find a way to join with other people from here in some type of venture. When the right business partners happen to come together amazing things can happen.

[–]CyberninjaZen3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love financial rp posts. Please keep this up.

[–]LateralThinkerer5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your income levels defining "middle class" are quite inaccurate, particularly for a financial advisor. Try these for starters.

[–]kaiwanxiaode1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Plus his notion that wealthy people don't offend come from wealthy backgrounds is skewed. New money need the services I snake oil salesmen in the finance industry. Such an indivisial is less likely to meet old money because they already know what they are doing with their capital.

[–]runescapevirgin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is spot on. I come from a lower middle class family and my dad can't seem to grasp why the idea of becoming a corporate shill makes me want to vomit, even if I would make 100k yearly. Ownership is the most enticing route for me

[–]ZioFascist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

im trying to combine all 3

[–]Aelius941 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sales is an interesting subject that I'm glad you brought up. The days of the 1980s 'Wolf of Wall Street' style sales are slowly being pushed away. At least in my country you will find it difficult to get a sales job that leaves room for serious human thinking and interaction because of a new style of sales. This type of sales may not seem new, it is simply to condition the people around you for years and years with advertising and trust in a company. You will notice that small businesses in retail etc. are becoming extinct while large chains are doing everything making the need for the sales talked about in the OP to be unnecessary. Why would they need skilled sales people when people are conditioned to trust a company simply for its name and brand? They don't, they simply need ANYONE who is good at following orders to read off a script they've written word for word and find the people who'll say yes after a little bit of assertiveness.

I"m not saying all sales is still like that, examples given such as real estate are still limited too face to face interaction mostly, but even that will dry up. When you put your house up for sale with an agent do you know the extent of the work they do to get it sold? There is none. It is put on a website and they wait for someone to click inquire. If it is priced correctly (if it is not the agent will condition the seller and convince them it needs to be lowered by any means necessary) then it will sell. Before the internet selling a house took a lot more work. I'm only mentioning this so you understand the same will soon happen when it comes to aquiring listings, agents (and other industries that need face to face sales) won't be around forever.

The above is in fact great selling techniques that are slowly being pulled apart to stop individuals from possibly putting a stain on someone working for big firms/companies etc. by trying to get sales for themselves at the expense of compliance. Don't be fooled into thinking you can be Jordan Belfort at a large company anymore. UNLESS you create the rules for yourselves, you won't get the chance to put what you want too into practice because no one but you wants you to succeed in getting what you want.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]ManNoob1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm trying to follow their advice on $1M in 10 years, even though I've started way later than they suggest. The toughest part is all of the shit you catch from friends and family. They all want you to hang out with them like you used to but you just can't, time is not on your side.

[–]1legedu[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I enjoyed a lot of their posts, and was an avid reader. But it seems to me that they are too busy to post good content anymore.

Their posts are fairly accessible, but they do stress the work ethic portion. They are extremely motivated, that's for sure.

[–]MadameMiddleFinger2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

This was a refreshing read, just inherited $25,000 from my grandpa and need all the badass advice I can get on how to own, rent, rinse and repeat. I'm not yet 30, still figuring it all out.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]1legedu[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the right answer. Income streams are everything.

[–]SultanSuleyman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For investments, does this imply primarily holding dividend-paying stocks? or can you reliably create income streams with price appreciation?

[–]TheDNote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the uk you would use that 25k on a downpayment for a property, do it up then either sell it or rent it depending on markets. Then if you do sell your profit remaining after the mortgage should get you a better house, then after 1 year you buy 2 houses, then 4 then 8 etc. Unitll you have a large enough passive income.

[–]the99percent13 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

They can afford to put their kids through private school, but may choose not to.

If anyone wants advice, SEND YOUR KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOL.

The connections they make there will set them up for a bright future. Trust me..

I was fortunate enough that my father had this foresight. He put all of us through private schooling. Today, every connection I've made can be linked to a private school friend. Including working for and learning from the top businessmen of my community.

Today, at 28, I'm running my own subsidiary linked to a top tier firm involved in construction, real estate, & property development. My strongest business associates (bankers, lawyers, traders, financial advisors, structural engineers, & architects) come from my high school friends or their friends network. My brothers are also experiencing similar success in their chosen fields, which I can see is heavily attributed to their usage of their private schooling networks.

Private schooling, it truly works. As you grow older, it's harder to find people that you trust and let into your inner circle. That's why friends from high school truly matters. I'm already seeing a gap in those who went to private school and those that didnt. Those who went, end up business owners or on top of chosen fields. Those that didn't, they are languishing in middle class pulling annual salary of 75k/annum at best.

[–]1 TRP SupporterFred_Flintstone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didnt learn of this until I reached age 25. Im so envious of people that have the connections you do. Even going to a top tier university seems to not have got me the quality of connections that my few private school friends have.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great post.

I'd say that specialization is the least important of the three as long as you pick a field to go into. I know a guy who started a fucking window-cleaning business (any idiot can learn to clean windows in a few hours, maybe a few days for high-rises), and he's a multi-millionaire.

Ownership is key. The reason Bill Gates, Larry/Sergey, and Mark Zuckerberg are so wealthy is because they retained significant ownership of their companies. Felix Dennis wrote in his book that when a couple of key employees demanded a greater piece of the company, he fired them and found replacements - that's how important ownership was to him.

As for sales, Paul Graham had a great insight on the sales profession:

In the right kind of business, someone who really devoted himself to work could generate ten or even a hundred times as much wealth as an average employee. A programmer, for example, instead of chugging along maintaining and updating an existing piece of software, could write a whole new piece of software, and with it create a new source of revenue.

Companies are not set up to reward people who want to do this. You can't go to your boss and say, I'd like to start working ten times as hard, so will you please pay me ten times as much? For one thing, the official fiction is that you are already working as hard as you can. But a more serious problem is that the company has no way of measuring the value of your work.

Salesmen are an exception. It's easy to measure how much revenue they generate, and they're usually paid a percentage of it. If a salesman wants to work harder, he can just start doing it, and he will automatically get paid proportionally more.

[–]ManNoob1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, as the Wall Street Playboys point out on their blog, you need to be careful with the skill set you are specializing in. The reason is that they can easily be outsourced to someone who will do it a lot cheaper. It's often better to focus on skills like Sales, Networking and Production Improvement (source: wallstreetplayboys.com).

[–]HughMannity2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

60 YO wealthy male here. All correct, with the single addition, don't let any women or bloodsucking lawyers (same thing, really) near you or your business.

[–]TheSliceman0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

10/10 Brilliant stuff.

Ive got the specialization in the bag, understand sales and am a great negotiator, DT as fuck, but I wont be an owner of property and business for the next 2 1/2 years. That puts my age then at 33, which I fear puts me at a disadvantage as time is not as on my side as if I were at the same stage at, say, 23.

Bit of a downer.

[–]1legedu[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I started late too, better than never

[–]Sdom10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Most people never own anything, especially nowadays, so don't be too hard on yourself. Owning real assets before your mid 30s generally means you either had family assets or a rabbi who backed you.

So don't let that shit stop you, most people who have money didn't have that much in their early 30s.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy

Why should somebody take financial advice from you, when a year ago you were selling shit on reddit for gas money. Now you work in wealth management? If this is true you give those of us who actually know what we're doing in this industry a bad name.

[–]1legedu[S] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy

That was almost four years ago, not a year ago. Though I appreciate you looking through my post history.

I got a position with a financial firm right after that post, and have been promoted several times.

Is my advice above incorrect? If so, please correct me so that I don't give the financial industry a "bad name." LOL

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy

Your "advice" here is all boilerplate shit that gets repeated on this sub over and over.

What exactly do you do for a living? A position with a "financial firm" and actually being in wealth management can be very different things.

[–]1legedu[S] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

My role is mostly relationship management, though it is sales heavy (not as heavy as aquisition).

This is an overview for a lot of people who weren't exposed to it growing up. If I would have had this information late in high school or in college I would be light years ahead today.

[–]GloriousGardener7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is true. Everything you said is common sense to me but I have friends who wouldn't know any of it. Depends on your upbringing. Some parents never even talk about money to their kids in anyway at all, or others do, but everything they say is wrong.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

When somebody says they work for a "financial firm" (whatever that means) in wealth management and then says their job is "sales heavy" all of my red flags and bs alarms go off.

[–]1legedu[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

If you work in finance, then you know that you cannot give financial advice in a forum (FINRA prohibits it). So I will not be using the company name, but I'm sure you knew that. Sales heavy means over 50% of my compensation is on production, not simply salary.

[–]Sdom15 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Look, I am in the industry as well, and I'm not sure what we're calling this guy out on. Nobody has really said anything here that is improper from an ethical or regulatory standpoint.

Whoever described himself as a licensed financial advisor is a potential exception to that, but I don't think it's a huge deal as he hasn't identified himself or given any financial advice.

In other words, Bruno Iksil he ain't, so let's lay off him.

[–]Darthstacker3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am a licensed financial advisor. I haven't said anything controversial. When did crybabies take over TRP?

[–]Sdom13 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Identifying yourself as a "licensed financial advisor" is literally the the first example they give you as to what you should not do in re: listing credentials when you study for your series tests. Government licensing is not to be used to confer or bolster a sense of your knowledge or expertise. That's why the other guy was asking you what certs you hold, generally if you had a CFA or something, you would list that specific license after your name.

Like I said, I really don't care, I'm just surprised that you don't remember that from your training. They give it quite a bit of emphasis.

[–]Darthstacker3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hey legedu, I think red_account is a troll or a retard so don't waste time. I am FINRA sanctioned also so I watch my step here as well. I checked out red_account and he is just a trouble maker so don't respond to the stupid lies he tells and everyone else should ignore his dumb ass posts.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You don't even know the proper fucking title of the job you're claiming to have.

[–]KeithStone30rack0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Jesus man, you've been so hell bent on the title. IB Analyst? Sales and Trading? Asset Management? Certified Financial Planner?

You sound like a massive douche. One of those typical douche bags who comes out of business school only concerned with their title and the firm they work for.

Why not focus on specific parts of the write up and comment or improve them?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Business school is for douches. Lucky for you I have never and will never be retard with an MBA.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]ChadThundercockII0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good luck brah. We are all gonna make it brah.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]1legedu[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, it's tough, but as long as there is still a market for whatever it is that you are specialized in then you have the chance to make a killing.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Perhaps this question will betray my naiveté but wouldn't you be better off keeping the steady £100k/month profits (and increasing them year by year) than selling out for £10m but having less passive income?

If you got your business to £100k a month then in 10 years maybe you'd get to £1m a month and all of a sudden you're making more in a year than you'd make selling off the business..?

[–]geenomike0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I work in a trade that is far from disappearing but has an ever dwindling supply of workers. I think your examples of coders, brain surgeons and whatnot is a bit limited. Not to rag, just to brag.

[–]ZioFascist3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

anyone with half a brain can get the gist of it. an industrial mechanic with some programming skills can make good money. a welder who can go scuba diving can too....funny you mention this because i read some report from Mckinsey or Deloitte (one of those consulting firms) that said globilization and the glut of labor after the recession left businesses with talent shortages, not supplys

[–]TruthNotFeelings1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What trade? I'm getting out of the military next year and probably going the trade route. I've been looking at becoming a union electrician. The pay seems pretty damn solid.

[–]geenomike-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should check out the trade subs. theres a lot of good info on what people get paid in what areas with what sort of experience. union vs non union per area. I do commercial refrigeration. apparently im doing a lot better than my peers, and i really had no idea until recently

[–]Dueperdue2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post is a perfect example of shit-loads of text with no real substance, AKA this has practical use of 0%.

Appreciate the effort but come back when you have something a little bit more specific.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]1legedu[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well home ownership is at a 20 year low so probably a good time to have a rental.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

All I've heard is that the market in Australia is shit for renting. Is there any way I can find out if the situation is a good/bad investment?

[–]putinbush100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Really good write-up, thanks very much. I always enjoy the different knowledge based posts like this.

[–]_Navarro0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As someone just now (22y) starting in the business world, these posts help greatly. Thanks.

[–]ConcealingFate0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Crazy difference. The average salary in Quebec is somewhere around 35K before taxes.

Anyway, great post. If I had to pick one of threes myself it would be the first one. Been saving all I could for the past 3 years in the hope to buy something and rent it eventually.

[–]Myrpl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I suppose to go to 1. without having base income means that it's alright to start from either 2. or 3. first?

[–]1RXRob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, and great to see another self improver in the crowd of pussy worshippers.

I'm inspired. I'm going to make my financial goal investment based. How does one even buy shares? Is there a website that I buy them through?

[–]sirmadam0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this post, makes me feel like I'm on the right track now. Working some part time security jobs means I now save almost 100% of my salary. I should be able to start my own security firm by the end of the year.

[–]cR3dd1t0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One hell of a post! Thanks OP!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post was a breath of fresh air. I only want to thank you for this solid post. After chewing on the grizzle and fat of venting rants we seem to have finally struck the delicious red meat that is red pill, your post.

[–]RPthrowaway1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this post! I've been looking at what I can do financially to secure myself, and start going somewhere rather than just treading water and paying my student loans. Do you have any specific recommendations for a 23 year old, currently renting and with student loans?

[–]prodigy2throw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

These are the posts we need in this sub. Practical and useful information which can be applied to improve quality of life and by extension, quality of women.

Thanks and keep it coming.

[–]Merwebb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Been raised to have an office job and a paycheck because thats what used to work back in my parents days. Not anymore.

This kind of info is what im needing for, thanks.

[–]smggs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks legedu. Excellent advice.

This is what I have been thinking about for quite some time now. Currently trying to figure out what services / businesses I can create and become successful so that I can invest in stocks, bonds and real estate. I don't have a job, I have about £8k saved up. My goals are to take action and have my financial empire running by the end of the month.

[–]dub1216860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The only thing that ever irritates me about good TRP posts is it seems like an unwritten etiquette to use the F word while presenting solid knowledge. IMO it devalues the post but this is just an opinion.

[–]hugeveinycock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your fucking opinion. J/k

[–]LitHit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fantastic points. I am a walking example of what you cite early on and I applaud you for calling out the reddit base for their visceral hate of the wealthy. I entered the 1% last year with just over 500k. My concept of 1% when I was "poor" was vastly different. I don't burn my cash on ferraris or gold toilets though, nearly all of it goes into new business ventures to expand and diversify those revenue streams. I am still learning, but one thing is for certain - the concepts championed here on TRP are key to success in this realm. Indecisiveness, hesitation, and being overly cautious have no place in your life if you wish to attain security and wealth. I beat myself up daily that I didn't grasp these concepts sooner in life, I can only imagine how much further ahead I would be. I blame it on public schooling and media indoctrination that I was lucky enough to shatter through in my mid 20's.

[–]foldpak1110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is great, I've been waiting for a post like this. I recently came across a few mentors; one in agriculture, computer science, website building, internet marketing, and stock trading.

From what I have learned so far, for all you new guys like me, you want to spend the first year purely self developing. don't even worry about making money as you want to read a book a week (the average CEO reads a book a week).

Oh and if you don't like socializing, you better start liking it. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Put yourself out there, know how your brain works, lead with reward, and be humble.

That's all I got so far haha. Should be fun.

[–]ProspectiveQuant-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

How do you get into wealth management? Does wealth management pay well?

Also, I would figure good real estate agents would be making around $30-$50 million a year. Do they actually make a lot more than that?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wait, you think real estate agents, on average are making 30-50 million a year? Are you high?

[–]ProspectiveQuant-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well, in a good area like in California. Houses sell for $1,000,000-$1,000,000. I figure selling a house a day at a mere $2,000,000, 5% commission gets you right in between $30-$50 million a year.

Some kid wrote on here that his mom is a top real estate sales agent in California and she gets FIFTY (50) sales calls a day.

So I guess you're saying they earn much more than that? Like $500 million?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

You think a real estate agent is making half a billion dollars a year? You must be trolling right? Do you know what kind of morons can become real estate agents? Do you know how much money $500 million dollars is? How old are you? You also realize people lie on the internet right?

[–]ProspectiveQuant-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, the financial advisor guy (OP of this post) said real estate agents make way more money than you think they do.

I don't know. Doesn't the math work out?

$2,000,000 house sold every day, x 5% commission = $100,000/day. 365 days in the year = $36.5 million/year.

I guess, fine, maybe you take weekends off, so there's really only 200 days in the year you're selling? So $20 million/year?

But surely you make way more sales than 1 if you are working 15 hours a day?

And if the report from the other guy is true, then 50 sales a day = 20 * $1 billion/year right?

I'm just doing simple math.

The average is probably lower, but the OP was talking about "the best" real estate agents, right?

I truly don't know, I'm just looking at very basic numbers.

I would assume, given the incredible money, that is must be a super saturated field.

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy


[–]ManNoob1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Before you do this, look at REIT's (real estate investment trusts). They are publicly traded like stocks and pay a dividend. The main advantage is that they are way more liquid and you aren't on the hook for any capital improvements. I made a good amount of money by investing in them during the 2009 crash. It might be less sexy because but I really find the liquidity aspect to be far more important. You get all the benefits of owning real estate without having to physically manage the property. Just another option to consider.

[–]HAMMURABl6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

This has motivated me to buy some property.

if thats the case, it means dumb money is going into real estate.

[–]1legedu[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I haven't read any books on the subject, but the only advice I can give you is to have a firm partnership agreement signed ahead of time. You may also want to consult an attorney about it.

I can tell you that a bank will usually not lend on a partnership for 4 units or less, so you will have to borrow as individuals then place the asset in partnership after the dust settles on the financing.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

I don't like the idea of signing a mortgage with a mortgage broker who is going to try and suck you dry through interest.

And how long does it take to pay off a mortgage when you get some renters living there? 10 to 20 years? That's a long time man, and if you buy a house and get renters to rent it, where do you live in the meantime?

[–]1legedu[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

I hope you're joking. Mortgage rates are historically low and the interest is even tax deductible. Suck you dry? At rates that are barely above inflation? Your mortgage broker doesn't give 2 shits what your interest rate is, he gets paid on the volume not the rate.

It doesn't matter when or if you pay off the property, all that matters is that you're making more than you're spending (cash flow positive). Your mortgage payment will never increase; the rent you charge will.

And you live ANYWHERE else.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

So, I buy a house, get some renters living in it, and in the meantime go rent a place to live in, and keep my current professional job to pay the rent?

Then I wait 20 years for enough money for another house?

That just seems average. Won't everyone else be doing it, thus making it harder to enter the market?

For the record, I'm in my early 20's, a software developer, and have little to no experience or knowledge in this stuff yet.

[–]TheDNote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No you buy 10 houses on loan or as many as u can.

[–]ManNoob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your mortgage broker doesn't give 2 shits what your interest rate is, he gets paid on the volume not the rate.

For what it's worth a mortgage broker can get paid more by selling you on a higher rate. There are two ways a broker gets paid.

The first is by having you pay "points" at the closing (1 point is considered 1% of the loan amount, aka 100 basis points). Most people don't want to pay any points at closing.

So the second way to get paid is by selling you a higher rate. For example, you may qualify for a 5% rate. But if the mortgage broker sells you on a 5.5% rate, the bank will pay him 1 point. Why? Because over the life of the loan, the bank will receive a lot more interest off of the extra .5% the broker sold you on.

Most brokers will try to sell you on both. They will attempt to have you pay 1 point at closing and also sell you on a higher rate so that the bank is also paying them 1 point.

One more thing. There is no such thing as no closing costs. If your broker tells you that there are no closing costs, he is really making so much extra money from the bank from selling you a higher rate that it makes sense for him to cover the closing costs out of his commission.

[–]NiceTryDisaster-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great post. You didn't speak much about online businesses though?

[–]1legedu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know enough about them. Though I do see some affiliate marketing people who make filthy amounts of cash.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

Hey, since you know your shit about real estate. Is buying rentable property just turning money (eg. $400k) into passive income (eg. $4k/mo)?

I mean, it'd take 100 months (4k/mo * 100) to pay off the property. That's 9-ish years to start turning a profit, which is a pretty long time. That's why I'm asking.

[–]1legedu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's if you pay cash. My examples including using leverage (mortgage). In short, leverage allows you to take someone else's money and use it to turn a profit for yourself.

As long as the terms of leverage are acceptable, it's usually in your best interest to use it.

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's a pretty big assumption that you can actually get a tenant. I know of a few people paying off a mortgage and the house it still empty.

You're also ignoring things like damage, property maintenance and upkeep like gardens, paint, plumbing etc.

It's not all fairy tales and happiness when you buy a property. More often than not you'll be up shits creek with no tenant and a dilapidating house.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]TheDNote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Property is pretty safe, its not like people are gunna stop living in houses. Sure you can liquidate it super fast but if you have 400k in the first place you should have enough liquidity anyway

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man, reminding me that I gotta stay on the rental, startup and corporate grind, I want to retire at 40.

[–]franklyforthright-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I needed this kick to start my business. Thanks!

[–]joshsoowong-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've been working at a restaurant for a year and I'm about to sale insurance soon. Really young right now. Sooner or later I want to grow passive income. I really like the idea of having a 1br condo and renting that out to gain some money.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Love the glengarry glen ross reference. Fucking amazing movie.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

What would you suggest for someone that has a VA home loan and shitty credit?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So; nothing about the coming Shemitah and financial collapse?

You must not be Jewish...

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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