How my dad held frame and saved himself from divorce rape

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June 19, 2018

I was driving around with my mom the other day, and she started talking to me about how her and my dad almost got a divorce years ago. I was young back then, and didn't know much, but then she told me something very interesting.. She went to the lawyers, and they told her she would pretty much get everything, since they've been married 20+ years. So she went to my dad with this information, and he pretty much told her that he would just quit his six figure job and she wouldn't get jack. After this news, she folded and called off the divorce. Knowing my dad, I could just see him laying on the couch with his legs propped up watching TV, and just telling her that in his IDGAF attitude, and going back to watching TV. And it just cracked me up. What he pretty much did was shattered her frame into a million tiny pieces. Here she was, with papers from professionals that would pretty much destroy his life, and it didn't phase him at all. Men, the point of me posting this is to remind us that you have more power as a man than you think concerning relationships. I'm sure if my dad got on his knees crying begging my mom not to go through with this, that my parents would be divorced right now. My dad performed an act that can only be described as TRP, and I can only wonder if divorces are just massive shit tests from wives.. tl;dr Alpha dad holds frame with threat of divorce rape, and mom folds

Post Information
Title How my dad held frame and saved himself from divorce rape
Author Zoltiel
Upvotes 867
Comments 332
Date 19 June 2018 03:33 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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alphadivorce rapeframeshit testthe red pill

[–]Mellyanish 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Beautiful bluff. The Family Court system has an evil concept called 'imputed income.' That is the income that the court thinks you could earn.

So if you quit your 6-figure job, you are still responsible for paying child support and alimony as if you still had that 6-figure job.

It is just make-believe designed to screw men, but it is done every day.

Escaping that divorce-rape was a masterful bluff by your dad.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Men, this is the comment that needs to be at the top.

While the notion of OP’s father quitting his job so the woman takes nothing may give you a justice chub, it isn’t at all how it works. OP did mention this was several years ago, and maybe it was possible back then.

I was never married, but I do have a child. When she inevitably left for a guy with more money (I don’t blame her), the very first thing she did was stick her hand out looking for money.

Long story short, I get my day in court. I show up with last 4 years W2’s, pay stubs from the last 12 months, and all my health insurance information. I made about $20k more in 2015 than I did in ‘16 and ‘17. I had a pretty good year at my primary job, in addition to having a second part time job in 2015.

I explained in no uncertain terms that I was no longer working the second job, and that the income earned from my primary job wasn’t typical, as shown by my other W2’s.

They based my child support on my highest earning year on the premise that “you have demonstrated the propensity to earn at this level” as she held my 2015 W2. Yes, it was a female judge.

Here’s the thing though, and the important part of the message... In order for me to lower my child support obligation, I have to lose 50% of my income for over three months. However, they will not lower it to match the reduced income.

Example: Let’s say I’m making $100k/year, and that’s what the original child support order is based off of. If my income drops to $50k/year I can apply to have it lowered. They may not lower it at all, but if they do, it will not be proportionate to the income loss. It will only be reduced by the amount they believe I can “easily attain” based on my credentials and experience. I have a finance degree with ~6 years experience. They would likely impute my income at the $60-$75k range, despite the fact I’m only making $50k.

There’s more. What happens if your income goes up? Excellent question, I’m glad you asked! If your annual income goes up to the point where your support obligation would increase by 10%, you’re required by law to notify the Child Support Recovery unit.

If she believes at any time you are hiding income, or have gotten a raise, she can request an income audit. She can request an income audit once every two years. If it’s found out that you did not disclose your additional income, they will backdate the increased amount and you’ll be required to pay all the unpaid support.

My current support order is 45% of my current take-home income. Think about that for a minute. She walked, took my daughter, my money, and now lives in a lavish home driving a brand new vehicle.

Never get married. Never have kids.

[–]UnPawsed102 points103 points  (18 children) | Copy

Fuck that life, I’m way too spiteful for that shit. I’d just walk away from it all if I were you.

[–]Mellyanish 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

The ex wife holds hostage the well being of the child. It's not so easy to walk away.

[–]7a7p 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Yeah but if I’m getting raped like that I’m shutting it all down. I’d rather be a fucking hobo than let a woman pull that shit on me. I’d be laugh my ass all the way to jail lol

[–]ciabattabing1621 points22 points  (6 children) | Copy

You'd have to define what this means. If it means living under a bridge and hunting for game, it may work. If it is anything else that involves actual living in society, you will be found and have any and all wages garnished. Even being arrested will not help, as any money supplied to you, and any money you earn from whatever job you may land inside will have the funds garnished. $5 a month is a big deal in most prisons. About a decade ago the state of Pennsylvania started requiring a social security number simply to obtain a $20 fishing license and trout stamp. This type of disappearing act was why. You literally cannot live on the grid, and I'd be surprised if you were able/allowed to flee the country, let alone deal with all the logistics of foreign work, etc. Family Courts are no joke.

[–]pame1211 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Could you perhaps just run off to Mexico? Like, climb over the wall or something like that?

[–]ksatriamelayu5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

he can, but only a few men are capable of that.

Also, parental attachment is no small thing.

[–]SgtBrutalisk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Could you perhaps just run off to Mexico?

Mexico has had an extradition treaty with the US for over a 100 years. The idea that there's this magical US-Mexico border after which all crimes are forgotten is put in Hollywood movies so dumb criminals flee south, get arrested by the laughing Federales and handed right back. Ever wonder why there's so many bank heist/kidnapping etc. movies? Everything in them is completely false so idiot criminals fail straight away.

[–]7a7p 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

That’s what I’m saying. If my wife ran off with my son with full custody AND all of my future income, I’d clock out. Period. It’s only a game if both parties are playing....and I’d just stop. I’d either off-grid and under the table, or I’d live like a regular man and provide for my son until the deputies come and get me for not providing a whore with a 6 figure yearly income. I’d take that charge over financing any bitch who stole my life.

[–]flyalpha563 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can’t go 50/50 with no Hoe

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would seriously consider a murder-suicide at this point. Don't be surprised that a dog bites back when you beat it.

But that's a moot point since I'm never getting married or having kids.

[–]callmeChopSaw0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Youve obviously never spent any significant time in jail

[–]red-pill-man25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is why women get away with this shit. Hostages. More men need to refuse to negotiate with terrorists and walk away.

[–]criveros17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m sure the child will be fine even if you disappear if you are in North America.

[–]111Dx4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want to scream, "Kill that bitch". You must be devastated. These laws are so much in favour of womyn these days. I had a buddy with same problem. He told me the same not to get married. I WILL NOT MARRY these awalt bitches.

[–]Papa_Gamble10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Easier to hire a hit man at that point. Cheaper too.

[–]partyboob30524 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

Id fake my own deah and move to thailand. She’d probably raise my daughter to hate me anyway

[–]enkae731710 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

You probably don't even need to fake your death. Just get out the country. The US courts cant chase you past there. Take all your cash you've saved up and book ship.

[–]HardPiano 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Brit here. A mate of mine went through the court system after his wife and mother of his child cheated (no fault divorce), so he just ghosted and disappeared to Dubai. He had prepared everything before or as legal proceedings went on. He transferred money into foreign accounts. He put some in cryptocurrency, and sold the house behind her back whilst she was living in it. Even left her a note serving telling her she had until the end of the month to get out. The day after the judgement he was on a plane and out of the country. He's told her he will support the child if she gets a test done to prove it but she refuses to do so. He told no one he was going to do it either.

All the mother of his child does is whinge on Facebook about him. She still emails him and everything asking for money, and calling him a deadbeat dad and he just replies with, 'Who's this?'. Last year I went out there and stayed in his villa and we took some photos having a great time with some hot American chicks who are working out there as well, and put them up online. She went fucking ballistic. It was comedy gold. Now he's living it up with a great salary, nice villa with a gym and pool, and banging hot women from all over the world and she has nothing. Her life has spiraled out of control and she's just another single mother crying on social media. She has also got super fat and he's wearing suits, heading to dinners and events and living it up.

I still remember the day he came out of court as I met up with him to go grab a drink. A calmness, a smirk, and then a smile as he handed me a letter and told me to read it in a week. A week later I open it up and it says 'I've moved to Dubai. Here's a flight ticket. I'll see you next week. I knew she was cheating and I had planned the entire thing for the last 9 months. I couldn't tell you until now". He knew. He kept it to himself, never revealed his intentions and then played his card. I'm now planning on moving out there in the future and joining him. Tax free income, modern, lots to do, etc.

[–]johnpayne100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow...simply amazing. This is exactly how every man should act post divorce. Ask your friend to join TRP and provide guidance to us. (On how to secretly plan for potential divorce). Or maybe you can write a post detailing how he went about it. It will surely help all married people here, or guys who plan on getting married at some point.

[–]warburgio22 points23 points  (3 children) | Copy

No marriage and still so much money is taken?!?! Unbelievable. Is it in the States?

[–]One_time_back_when10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Marriage = alimony. Child support is between you and the child so marriage means nothing. In theory, child support is purely for the benefit of the child and not so mom can live cushy and unemployed.

[–]untonyto5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

so many theories they pump into our skulls in schools and so few of them have any real-world application.

[–]BrownGummyBear8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Another reminder as to why I’m never getting married

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why should child support change at all based on your income? Presumably every child costs approximately the same amount of money to clothe, house, and feed. Does the child get “accustomed” to a certain lifestyle like the mother?

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Yep, so I asked the same question. They give two reasons why it is the way it is.

They say it’s income based so that one parent does not try to buy the love of the child. If one parent makes significantly more than the other, presumably the higher earning parent has a higher quality of life. Nicer house, better cars, nicer clothes, vacations, etc... They claim it creates stability in the child’s life when each household has a similar lifestyle.

The other answer you’ll usually hear is, “if you and the child’s mother were still together, you’d be paying the same proportion of your income.”

Neither are valid arguments in my opinion. Maybe in extreme cases where one parent is a multimillionaire or something, but that’s not the norm. In my particular situation, she left me for a guy with family money, lots of family money. She doesn’t work, and his income will never be included in the support calculation, despite the fact that it’s his income that allows her the luxury of not having to work. They built a brand new house last year. I look on Zillow to see what it appraised at and it’s appraised at $765k. She drives a brand new loaded 4Runner. He sold his lake house a month or two ago and bought a lot on the same lake. They’re going to build a new lake house this year.

Meanwhile, I was forced to sell my house and my truck. I currently live in a little townhome and drive a 2006 Colorado.

Nothing makes you feel like a complete loser like your 8 year old daughter telling you your house is too small and you need to buy a bigger one. I had her for Father’s Day weekend and we were running around shooting each other with nerf guns.

[–]magx016 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I had her for Father’s Day weekend and we were running around shooting each other with nerf guns.

More qualitative parenting than your ex has done in years, guaranteed. If she's anything like my ex all she does is criticize and worry about appearance. She actually complained about campfires because they "make her hair smell" (her being my daughter). Let's ignore the bonding and memories and focus on a smell (the smell of summer imo) which can be washed out anyway. It's hard not to hate women sometimes.

[–]PrettyBelowAverage7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy

I know prenups exist, and I'd definitely get one if I ever considered marriage, but are people allowed to have a contract stating in the instance of a divorce that it would just be a clean break or x% of assets?

Just something that I've always been curious about.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Prenups are thrown out all the time. Sure, you can pay a lawyer to draft up an exit strategy if you want. Depending on how in-depth and how much time the lawyer spends on it, you’re looking at probably close to $1000, maybe more.

You’ll think you’re protected, right up until the judge looks at it and rules it non-binding.

Quite literally, if the judge believes the situation is unfair, he/she will throw out the prenup or any other agreement.

[–]One_time_back_when3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you have a prenup and you think there is a chance a judge will throw it out, you need to get to the table and negotiate the best settlement you can before it gets thrown out. Balance your risk and reach a middle ground agreement before you get it in the ass by a judge. It's hard because people going through divorce or custody disputes are angry and fueled by emotion. Dads need to put the emotions aside and think long term.

[–]FOODYUMONION4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The said thing is the kid gets screwed. No amount of money can fix a child growing up without their real dad. The stats back this up

[–]PrettyBelowAverage4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

Seriously?! What's the point? Especially if you have premarital assets worth protecting..

There has to be some sort of contract that can be signed that a judge won't throw out, right?

[–]brokegirl114 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

If your partner gives up their ability to make money / have a career in order to raise your children, you better believe that you need to pay up if the marriage breaks down.

Dont marry a do nothing bitch, marry someone with enough of a career that she won't be able to rape you.

[–]PrettyBelowAverage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly, l would definitely be fine with it in that scenario.. Even then though I have a friend who has like $1,100 to send to his wife every month AND he gets the kids about half of the week. She has a job as well.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I’m not 100% sure tbh. I’m betting it depends on the judge, and how much you throw at a lawyer.

It’s very much a pay-to-win system.

[–]PrettyBelowAverage6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Kinda makes one feel sick that the system is so set up for the woman's side in the case of a divorce. I've seen a lot of people be taken for their money in pitiful ways through divorce in courts, but knowing that even with preventative measures in place you can't be protected is just disheartening.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I am not a lawyer, and I don’t have any experience with prenups or how well they hold up in court. I’m going based on what I’ve read online, so take that for what it’s worth.

I’ll put it to you this way... if you are about to get married and you’re worried about how well your prenup will hold up, you should save yourself the trouble and cancel the wedding.

[–]PrettyBelowAverage2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What happened to AWALT? What happened to all of the marriages that start off with the girl you knew and end up with both/one of you just growing into another person? To the point of there being no more semblance of a relationship? Happens very often and the ones that try to make it work are miserable the majority of the time it seems.

This all applies even more so if you have something worth taking to protect before a marriage.

Also, wouldn't you have questions and feel disheartened hearing that your way of trying to protect yourself could fall through the floor just on the whim of a judge? That there potentially is no way to protect yourself even if two consenting adults sign a contract? I'm still on my monk mode shit currently, focusing on me, marriage is one of the last things on my mind until I read about it here and then my mind plays out situations.

To me a prenup means that the other person is actually in it equally. To know that equality that would have (I'm assuming) taken lots of time to put together and money put into lawyers could be worthless is concerning.

[–]well-ok-then1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think guys usually get screwed on child support based on income. Most dudes get married with few premarital assets relative to the next 18 years of income.

[–]PrettyBelowAverage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I guess I'm someone who feels they would have substantial premarital assets that I wouldn't want to even run the risk of being taken.

Their system, their game I guess (government) - don't have to play all of the games in the casino of life though, some of the pit bosses seem a bit cruel haha

Also, I need to look up statistics, but I feel like 18 year long marriages end less frequently then marriages < 10 years. In my mind, I wouldn't be surprised if most divorces happened within the first 1-5 years of marriage. It would just suck to go into that, one or both of you changes and the love is gone, no kids, but suddenly half of everything you own including premarital assets is gone. I've seen guys with no kids just be bent over.

[–]BonelessSkinless6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't understand how the system is designed to fuck us so hard on "perceived notions of income" that's a violation of rights and scary for a guy who loses his life to a girl he thought he loved while she hops on new dick. No wonder Male suicide rate is sky high

[–]One_time_back_when11 points12 points  (22 children) | Copy

You must have very little custody time. When things go to 50/50 then the child support payments get reduced to account for the fact that you pay equal support obligations because you have the kids half the time. It's still income based, but wouldn't be anywhere near 45% take home.

[–]EqualResponsibility14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

No. It doesn’t change that much. And it’s 45% of his income because they are imputing his income. It’s like you didn’t even read what he said. :(

[–]One_time_back_when2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

It depends on the state, but I very much did read what he said. As you go from 0 towards equal, shared custody, your child support obligation decreases significantly. But hey, in just a guy that has equal custody and a child support order that requires me to pay very little to my ex. I don't know what I'm talking about. /s

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Man... I’m envious of your situation.

[–]EqualResponsibility0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This calculator has been fairly accurate in the past for me and it doesn’t even ask for the time sharing. When you look up the statue for child support it shows that time sharing only effects the Support marginally if it’s anything more than 25% time share.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I get every other weekend. I asked for more, but we live too far apart apparently.

She literally doesn’t work. She lives with the guy she left me for. He has family money, and frankly, he is able to provide her a lifestyle Id never be able to accomplish. Granted, without Daddy’s money, he wouldn’t be able to either, but whatever.

I don’t blame her for leaving. I’m just bitter I have to pay so much of my disposable income given the differences in our lifestyles.

She vacations once a month on average, drives a brand new loaded 4Runner. They live in a brand new (they built it) house. They just sold their lake house because they bought a bigger lot on the lake. They are building a new lake house.

Meanwhile, I’m the one that had to sell my house and my truck. I live in a townhome, and drive an older truck.

[–]One_time_back_when1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I feel you man. I'm not passing judgement. I know it's difficult. Not everyone has the option of going 50/50. In fact, it's no surprise that the family courts favor moms.

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

just identify as a lesbian mom

Jewish black tranny


































[–]doorfly2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy

So does the court decide how much %?

[–]doorfly6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

This comment got me autobanned from another subreddit. WTF. didn't even realize that was possible.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Which one, hope whichever it was bans me too

[–]doorfly0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well that was the first time me commenting in this sub and that was enough for a bot to auto ban me from another sub, citing that the red pill is a hate sub therefore all participants of this sub cannot participate in that other sub. Surprised the hell out of me.

[–]cmaster1190 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

In my case, it was a statewide recognized schedule used by the family courts to suggest the % reduction. Don't recall who created it. At 50/50 custody, mine was reduced by 34% as per the schedule.

[–]One_time_back_when0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly, by statute they calculate the total child support obligation and that obligation is then reduced by custody time and then adjusted proportionally to the income of each parent

When most guys talk about getting killed by child support, these are the dad's that have zero or every other weekend custody arrangements. For Dad's that remain equal or close to 50%, you don't get hit that bad and, if she makes more than you, she will very likely owe you child support

[–]One_time_back_when0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In many states, it's purely a statutory calculation based on: income earned by each parent, custody time, and child care expenses that are incurred in addition to the base support obligation (think private school, health insurance, etc.

I want to stress that the calculations are very dependant on the custody time for each parent. There are different statutory calculations applied depending if it's sole custody, equal custody... And so on

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Yes. It’s just a plug and play formula. They plug my gross income, her gross income, and it spits out a number.

She doesn’t work because her new guy is wealthy from family money.

[–]One_time_back_when1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't know about Iowa, but if she ever marries this guy, you may be able to get a reduction if the state allows the court to consider his income as part of the overall calculation.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Ha, that was the very first thing I asked about. They just got engaged last winter, and are due to be married.

It is 100% based solely on her income and my income. Once they are married the only thing that could change is how our daughter’s health insurance works.

He could put her on his insurance if it’s cheaper than mine, but I would still have to pay for it.

If I wanted to, I could take her back to court and request a modification of support. Since it is his income that provides her the luxury of not having to work, I could request that her income be imputed, but she never went to college so I’m guessing it would be imputed at minimum wage.

If they did decide to impute her income at that level, realistically, it wouldn’t lower my support that much. It wouldn’t lower enough to justify the thousands of dollars it would cost in legal fees to make it happen.

[–]warburgio1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good luck dude. That is seriously fucked up.

[–]tiberius144 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wow, makes hiring a Hitman sound economical

You seem to know your way around the system.. I am not married yet but I want kids. Is there a way to avoid getting sucked into the situation you're in?

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Absolutely there is. Pick a woman with a head on her shoulders. Pick one that has an education, both parents at home, and one that has a steady career.

Avoid deadbeat women. Avoid bartenders, hair stylists, and personal trainers. Avoid any woman raised by a single mother. Avoid women that bring nothing to the table other than a wet hole.

[–]WeddingCrasher912 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Deadbeat. Reminds me of my current wife (we're separated) . Shes almost 22, barely finished high school, doesn't want to work, yet she dreams of a lavish lifestyle. Beside being relatively hot, i married her so she can help me move to states. Failed with that also, lost a shit load of money trying to impress her and keep her interested. How stupid i was

Edit: I just got an email from USCIS that our case is approved and will be forwarded to NVC for further processing. The irony

[–]IndependentAccount2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

"Real World Divorce" goes in-depth on the absurdity.

[–]brokegirl112 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did you never let her work or did she contribute 50% in ways other than money?

One of my friends (a woman) has 50/5- custody of their kid but she still has to PAY HIM child support.

Usually the ex only gets large amounts if she /he didn't have a career and instead was a full time carer.

One way to get around this is to make sure you support your wifes career so she can't come after you for large amounts as she still has the ability to earn her own money (laws vary country to country).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

For the readers benefits. This income imbalance works both ways. If you have a woman that makes more money than you do, then this gets done to her instead. RP theory says that status/income don't matter towards making a woman attractive or raising her SMV. Those things do however make her more desirable in a relationship for security against alimony/child support. A stay at home mom is a ghost of xmas past in this world.

[–]pizzarulzz2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

"Never married never kids" In america but thats now how work in india.

[–]BoskOfPortKar1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well, it is also because the Judge takes a % on what the mother will be paid !

Huge Conflict of Interests but who cares ?

The Marriage Licence is just an extortion scheme against men.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers001 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Damn. Justice chub no more.

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Ha, yeah, I don’t mean to kill the vibe, but I think it’s important people understand what actually happens when you find yourself in that type of situation.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh for sure it’s a great wake up call. After that other post about the guy catching his wife in the act with the Facebook messenger on the iPad, I think we all got a little justice chub that needs a little cold water.

[–]WholesomeAwesome1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did you consider changing jurisdiction into one where they cannot fuck with you and work from there?

[–]FOODYUMONION0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This makes me want to sling dope and gear instead

[–]azhiker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I have no ideas, only heartfelt sympathy, which is of course, inadequate.

[–]Ursus_Crap 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Okay, you're the dude to ask. I'm in a shit situation. Girl just had my son after a whirlwind romance. We are not married and I will never marry her. It's inevitable she will leave me for a rich guy soon and everyone knows it.

BUT! Here's the kicker. She's South African. I'm American. I've got my son citizenship, but does that mean that if we split I owe her South African child support or American? Or both?

[–]JarvisMusk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

If she applies for any kind of government assistance, the state will automatically come after you.

If she takes the kid and goes back to South Africa, I have no idea what happens then.

[–]Ursus_Crap 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

We're already in South Africa. I've had a hard time finding answers, but I think because the US isn't under the jurisdiction of the reciprocal enforcement of South Africa’s foreign maintenance order diplomacy then it would be a pricey endeavor for her to obtain. Although, I of course plan on providing for my son. It's just I don't want to pay for her life when she ditches me.

[–]toiletpapermoney70 points71 points  (19 children) | Copy

My ex-wife tried to have an income imputed to me equal to my corporate income (mid six figures). She got reverse-raped because I had 10 years of history of never using corporate money for personal expenses. I let her hang herself. She went bankrupt and owes $100K to her lawyers.

[–]tekn0_14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

So if you didn’t use your corporate money for personal expenses, what did you use it for instead?

[–]Neutral_User_Name18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

I am going to guess: for the corporation. Source: I own a business.

[–]tekn0_8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

That makes a lot of sense. So that would cover all the personal expenses as corporate expenses.

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

investing from within the corp intensifies

[–]Gobraves446 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy

Can somebody explain this to me? What did he do here?

[–]EqualResponsibility36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy

He owns a business. He kept most of the income from the business in the business itself. When a business pays you back for an expense it can be considered income in certain situations. The courts can’t consider the business income only his personal income which he draws from the business.

It’s not a loop hole or anything. He just ran his business like an actual business and not a free for all source of money.

[–]therealjohnfreeman 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

By "corporate income" he means the income from a business he owns. He never used that income to support himself, it all went back into the business, so to the court, it makes his income look like $0.

[–]toiletpapermoney14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy

Not exactly, I had a reasonable amount used as salary forever. For a judge to pierce this veil would have severe repercussions that (for now) is not something the government wants. The proper way to avoid this is don't get married.

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

you never declared the salary? I don't understand

[–]toiletpapermoney0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Of course I did. I paid myself ~120K annually since 2008.

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

so you personal income looked like 120K annualy?

[–]toiletpapermoney0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

yes, though some years it was as low as 60K

[–]Guardian_of_Justice0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How the fuck does someone live with a 100k debt? Do most of the debts get forgiven if u are broke like shit?

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

great idea! adding it to my list.

[–]longjeep20050 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What a great story of karma, congratulations

[–]DoNotEatTheTail18 points19 points  (4 children) | Copy

Is this what happened to Dave Foley?

[–]Jampak_50002 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy


[–]toiletpapermoney0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Presumably this ends the enforcement against him.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No, he reconciled with his second, different wife.

[–]GodLikeVelociraptor10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's not just to screw over men. My deadbeat ex-wife, when I left her, refused to work because it would affect the settlement. Since she was college educated and able-bodied, the court imputed her income and significantly reduced my required alimony payment. I still paid alimony but only because I was making mid six-figures to her normal income.

[–]RedPillAtNight1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When my ex first went to the divorce lawyer, she was a SAHM but he told her to find a job immediately because she had an MBA and would not get nearly what she thought. The state mandated CS was 33%, but I only paid 18% because of her education and we did 50/50 on where the kids lived. Later I got it cut to half of that because she got raises and got laid off and the job I found later paid less.

[–]Bletchlypark 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

If that shit happened to me I would flee to another country. Fuck that shit.

[–]hawkeaglejesus4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Make sure it's not an extradition country. Failing to make child support payments is an extraditable offense.

[–]scagnetti899 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I had to fight tooth and nail in my divorce to get through too the judge I work 28 days on ship, and have 28 days off. Only work and get paid for 182 days of the year. The pay stubs for 5, 14, and 9 days last me the month I'm on the ship, and month home not working. They couldn't get through there fucking skulls that concept. Say I made 100k a year working 182 days, the judge based it on 200k, saying I should work the full year. What the Fuck? Slave away out to sea, never coming home to pay this outrageous amount? Thank god I got a good (read expensive) lawyer to straighten this shit out before the final decree.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So if someone were to face an unfair circumstance, would you say any expensive lawyer is better? how did you go about finding said lawyer and if you could mention, how expensive was the process?

[–]scagnetti890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had friends/co workers who went through divorce and recommended the individual lawyer who was familiar with merchant marines and there rotations and pay, and child custody for times I was off the vessel. Cost me about 8k and a year and a half of court process. I don't go cheap on tattoos, dental, or legal.

[–]Watchingcluturefade6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy

So if you quit your job and literally don't have any money, will you go to jail eventually?

[–]Mellyanish 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Yes, absolutely. Inability to pay is no defense against the demand to pay.

Men are put in jail every day for failure to pay child support....and they are still responsible to pay child support even when they are literally unable to pay, in jail.

[–]Watchingcluturefade20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wow, that is truly incredible and ridiculously sad.

I agree with someone on this thread, I would leave the country in that situation.

[–]Libertarian-Party12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ah, but that's where the US law rapes you one more time and prevents you from leaving the country if you have any outstanding child support payments. Welcome to America.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

I bet they enforce that harder than they enforce laws against illegals coming in.

[–]Watchingcluturefade9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't say I would do it legally


[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes they hold you in contempt. We abolished debtor prison in the 19th century because it was recognized as being cruel and counterproductive, but then we brought it back for divorce rape because it’s not cruel and counterproductive if it’s going to benefit women. Complete gynocracy. Don’t ever let anyone try to tell you otherwise. We brought back debtors prison for women.

Carthage must be destroyed.

Women’s suffrage must be repealed.

[–]Watchingcluturefade2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol yes! Huge history buff, I love it

Carthago delende est!

[–]WinstonMcFail0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Eventually? I had a friend who couldn't work due to injury.. Was off for two weeks so couldn't make child support.. Was arrested the day after missing the payment. The day he was supposed to go back to work. So he got further behind, of course.

[–]magicmikefx5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

As a man.... I just used this imputed income argument against my ex wife in the divorce. She is educated and left work to become SAHM. That's all over we have 1 kid in school the other in daycare. Time to go back to work. Waiting on the signature on the separation agreement.

[–]Wolfoflulzstreet2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes this. Dad could have been fucked and in a trailer park. Once a 6-figure job always a 6-figure job.

[–]enkae73172 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

What? Say you do quit your job and lose your 6-fig job. And they require you to pay a 6-fig child support portion. You don't have any money. What can they do then? Send you to jail?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's essentially a doctrine that exists to prevent a party to a divorce from purposefully quitting their job so that the court can't hold them liable for payments to their ex-spouse. It actually does make sense from a legal perspective, but unfortunately gets used on men more than on women since men are more likely to have to pay money in a divorce than women

[–]SgtBrutalisk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dave Foley got threatened with 6 months for non-payment and 30 days for each extra month, so he would potentially get a life sentence.

[–]ApexmanRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, it may have been his rock solid IDGAF attitude in the face of destruction in court was enough to make the OP's mom think "Can I get better than this man?"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Totally agree that the system is biased against men obviously, but I have seen this concept used against women in the cases where they've been found liable to make payments, so I wouldn't call the imputed income concept itself's pretty sweet the times it works for the guy too lol

[–]Butt_Man_690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wha to want to know is what countries do and don’t have these fucked up laws.

[–]WholesomeAwesome0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

lol are you serious? I'm really loling right now.

I think he forgot the part where he disappears, with all the assets, (and the children if TRPx3) to another country. Extradition proof to. With apssports she never heard of.. This even excites me. In the real situation, I would be tripping over this shit. I would be *THRILLED* in executing it. I will tremble in excitation and adrenaline at the tought of my zero fucks singularity and her face



I don't understand why I'm so alone in this attitude.

[–]refelgallo65 points66 points  (1 child) | Copy

A friend of my fathers was divorce raped in the 80s, I met my father's friend in the late 90s. As my father told the story, his buddies ex old-lady shows up one day with the new boyfriend when she's​ picking up the kids.

“I’m gonna take you to court for more child support so we can get <insert boy toys name> a new Harley”

My father's friend nods and within a week sold everything he owned, quit his six-figure job at NASA and became “homeless”

Put a multi-unit property in my father's name, and the friend was the ‘maintenance guy’ for the property

All to not pay his ex a dime

edit - grammar

[–]RedPilledGodEmperor8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, these days marriage is not a risk that is worth taking.

[–]NorthEasternNomad229 points230 points  (28 children) | Copy

It's getting to the point marriage is like a hostage situation. Once you marry her,she is free to give you nothing but shit tests, take what she wants, and destroy your life if you try to leave her...or if she just up and gets bored with her own lack of effort.

And people wonder why, even though I have an LTR, we aren't married...because I live with a woman who does not put much stock in paper commitments, we both make enough to support ourselves independent another...and my state, does NOT recognize Common Law marriage.

So why WOULD I marry?

Frankly, of late, it's the rest of it I'm beginning to wonder why I bother with...

[–]Fun_DENVER77 points78 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's getting to the point marriage is like a hostage situation

Getting to the point? It's been like that for decades. Men are just finally waking up to it.

The best argument against marriage is to talk to any guy who's gone through a divorce. Or any lawyer specializing in "family" law.

[–]NorthEasternNomad44 points45 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's actually more on point.

It's funny. People ask me, "Why don't you want to get married? Don't you have friends and family who are married?"

Why yes. Yes I do know married people.

They are the reason, that I'm not married.

I've still to meet a couple where the wife has not advertised one thing and given another, turning marriage into one long shit test that leaves the guy caught between incel and alimony check.

[–]MormonRedPill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The best argument against marriage is to talk to any guy who's gone through a divorce.

And yet so many of them will tell you their horror story then turn around and remarry. Men get remarried more often than women do. Even getting divorce raped isn't enough to redpill lots of men.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (23 children) | Copy

Would you care to elaborate with what you mean by "rest"? I am interested.

[–]NorthEasternNomad45 points46 points  (22 children) | Copy

The LTR part. To be honest, I'm starting to feel like the product I was "sold" differs significantly from the one I've been asked to live with.

The ad included a tight, pretty well toned gal with heat and passion. The longer term package is... somewhat It's been a slow transition, sure; but it's all been one direction, and it's not upward.

[–]voomer5321 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

Should have signed up for the automatic trade-in after 10 years....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy

Do you think that what you are experiencing is AWALT or just applicable to your chick?

[–]3438027 points28 points  (19 children) | Copy

You're referring to /u/NorthEasternNomad's girl losing physical attractiveness and enthusiasm for their relationship as she ages? Yea, buddy, one in a million chance, that.

[–]NorthEasternNomad23 points24 points  (17 children) | Copy

Spot on assessment.

I cook. Clean. Take care of myself. Our rescue pets. I work, make decent money.

It's not enough. Shes reaching a point she'd rather pkje at her tablet and scroll through Facebook than look at me. She's only 42, by the way, but man, it's like she's turned 60.

She's gained weight. Doesn't "feel sexy." So I get punished.

Fuck that.

I start back to finish my BS in Computer Science in September. I put it off to not take time from us. But no more.

Going to finish it. Transition to a higher paying job. Once that's done, if this isn't better, I'm gone. And will never live with a woman again thereafter, for any reason.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (14 children) | Copy

Please tell me if I am being too intrusive, I'll stop if needs be. (I am 18 so tryna take the red pill)

But won't you feel lonely at that age without a partner and a potential family? Are we not social creatures?

Thank you for your time by the way.

[–]mobilesin51 points52 points  (8 children) | Copy

Nothing feels more lonely than not having your needs met in an LTR. Better solo.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy

I dont mean to sound like a pussy, but that kinda scares me. I feel like I am walking into the darkness blind. Especially because I dont really have a role model in my life (namely with my father).

[–]SgtSplacker22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is only when you realize that we are all walking into the darkness blind that you begin to really see life for what it is. You can feel lonely in a room full of people if you don't have your head in the right place.

[–]PMmepicsofyourtits8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Learning to focus on yourself and be happy without a relationship is very important. I know a lot of guys my age (Mid 20's) that just can't handle the idea of being alone, so they run into bad relationships and make poor long term decisions.

[–]basedmattnigga72 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Once you get some numbers under your belt (in terms of sex AND long term relationships), you’ll probably see how the single life is the better choice.more time more money more fun and more freedom.

You need to meet and talk to some married guys at work or something. If they’re even slightly honest... it’ll set you straight.

[–]Westwood_10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is so incredibly true

[–]grewapair16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm 57 and haven't had a steady girlfriend for almost 10 years. I got very sick at age 52, recovered at age 54, and looked into getting back into the dating game. Had one date with a 22 year old, a couple with some who were around 28 but I just didn't feel it, for the first time ever. "Why", I wondered.

And then I figured it out. I had gotten virtually nothing out of any of my relationships. I had dozens of them and I had literally never gotten anything out of any one of them. Two were living together relationships, one I was engaged but called it off. I was getting nothing, literally nothing at all. When I looked back at the time I had put into entertaining the girl to keep her around, in exchange for getting literally nothing, it wasn't worth it. I got relatively boring sex, but at an enormous cost in terms of time and money. Nothing else.

I basically had one of two types of girls. One type couldn't or wouldn't do anything. I would do everything and she would come along for the ride. This type of girl might not be crazy, I had MBAs, one is currently a professor at Georgetown Law School. Worthless. Couldn't boil water.

The other type was more insideous. This type of girl convinces you, slowly, over many years, that her goals are better than yours and you should adopt them. Having adopted them, you then work towards HER goals not yours. Your goals are seen as stupid or worthless. Having gotten you to start working towards HER goals, she then jumps on your back and you then carry both of you towards HER goals while she does nothing at all.

So what was I going to get out of another relationship? NOTHING.

The price of a relationship is just too high.

Instead, I made boatloads of money. Now all goals are my goals, and no one stands there taking me away from them or forcing me to run around trying to keep her happy or content. I don't miss it at all. And now with Tinder, fugitaboutit. It's just too easy for a girl to find someone else, unless you are doing everything and she is doing nothing. Count me out.

[–]BewareTheOldMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah - I've seen this play out as well.

A former colleague had a beautiful live-in girlfriend who was working on her PhD. The problem was that she had no job, "suspended" working toward her doctorate, would NOT cook or clean, and barely had sex with him. This woman had a credit score that averaged a 400 or so rating!

We attended a work-related formal dinner and as usual she showed up looking really good on his arm, but later discussion revealed her numerous problems.

He was early 40s, very smart, a natural leader, hard worker, in tremendous shape, and a financially well-off bachelor.

He let her go a while later - so good on him for knowing his worth.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow I hope everything is going alright for you now brother. 👊🏻

[–]hawkeaglejesus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read this

The man who is comfortable with himself and confident in his true independence is the one that women will want to be associated with and to share in it. How you handle being alone and what you do with the opportunities that freedom allows is the real measure of a man. If you’re single and 50 you STILL have options if you’re only brave enough to explore them. I know divorced men in their 50s who’re dating mid 30s women right now and I know men in their 60s who’ve been trapped and emotionally blackmailed by their wives for 30 years. Mariage is no insulation from the sexual marketplace.

[–]NorthEasternNomad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't get lonely easily. I have lots of interests. No trouble making friends, including with benefits.

And as the below's pretty lonely being alone in an LTR...

[–]BewareTheOldMan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

PRO TIP: If you know for certain you are en route to divorce make it happen BEFORE you secure the higher paying job - higher paying job equals MORE alimony and higher child support.

I had no issues paying higher child support based on increased income, but as usual the ex-wife wanted more money and had little to no incentive to improve her own financial situation.

[–]NorthEasternNomad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We are not married though. And we aren't going to be, before I finish school. We actually plan on a prenuptial that precludes alimony in the event of separation, since we both make decent money, though.

This is assuming, of course,vthat we go through with marriage. There are warning signs cropping up, but I want to try and work at it before just jumping ship.

[–]huskerbolt147 points48 points  (1 child) | Copy

Cool story bro

Problem is, real world is she infact would end up with all his shit regardless. In the courts there is a term "Earning Power", all she had to do was pull the tax history and hand it to the lawyers thus showing what his potential would be and she would get paid accordingly.

Most likely his IDGAF attitude made her rethink things ... so in that aspect well played. But in the real world he would still get divorce raped ..... those of us who have gone through it know the pitfalls that marriage brings and the hard lessons learned even prior to swallowing the pill most of us would not willingly enter marriage again .. I know I wont and I am one of the rare ones who actually got over in divorce.

[–]1Your_Coke_Dealer17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Precisely. He bluffed, she folded. Good on him for knowing when to bluff, but also not a solution for all men

[–]pru51114 points115 points  (8 children) | Copy

I recent fell out of a 10 year LTR and still have all my belongings. How? I didn't marry her!

[–]Kaapaala24 points25 points  (7 children) | Copy

Well, if you lived in Canada (except Quebec), you would have not thanks to common-law marriage.

[–]sumethreuaweiei2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

From my understanding, common law isn’t as big of a deal and separate assets still remain separate.

[–]wanderer7792 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's no way out of making men pay for women. Except for making women starve, and we're not going to do that. Women simply don't produce enough to sustain themselves. One way or another we have to pay for them.

Therefore this strategy of LTRing and not marrying can't work on a large scale. We're not going to be leaving a bunch of old ladies starving in the streets.

The more I think about it I think the fairest way to handle it would be to just give women money either through the tax code or welfare. In some ways we're already doing it. If could socialize the cost of keeping women then we can get rid of the old system where you couple financial support with long term sexual relationships (basically a more respectable version of prostitution).

I think this is the fairest model going forward for everyone. People are going to want companionship, women are going to want material comfort, and men increasingly are opting out of the old sham system.

[–]Scanline68 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

But the problem is that the government and the wealthy don’t want that to happen. Call me a conspiracist but why would they stop using the good ol’ system to extract all the wealth from the financially responsible middle class men who are the generators of wealth and through spoon fed feminist ‘liberal’ women transfer that into their own pockets.

I remember reading about an old Jewish saying—All I know is that it is Jewish, I am not into all that the Jews are controling the world crap, but it goes something like: If you want to do business, remember you are selling to women and children. Something along that line.

Like most things, a good solution is untenable when it benefits all instead of the few.

[–]TorboLeto0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How does this common law work exactly?

Is it after 1 year you become common law? And in that case, how does it work - does everything you own automatically become half hers? Or is it anything new from then on? Does it include your money?

[–]2Overkillengine3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Varies by jurisdiction. But in the most basic terms it outlines a way for the government to treat one as married for legal and financial purposes even if one did not go through the traditional marriage license and ceremony route.

What this means is that depending on where you live and how the local government handles that concept (not all recognize it), it can be a very bad idea to merely even cohabitate with a woman as this allows her access to your assets post separation that she otherwise would not have.

[–]guiriri0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you know about Quebec? I've always assumed I would be raped regardless ( 4 kids, not married )

[–]Kaapaala0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not married so I don't know much, however I do know that common-law couple resulting in alimony isn't a thing in Quebec thanks to the Eric v Lola case:

[–]EvolvingSomewhere73 points74 points  (4 children) | Copy

My 1st divorce, I remember telling my ex adamantly that I would spend every dime I had and every ounce of energy paying for attorneys to get the kids. She believed me and just gave me full custody over all 3. Danny Tanner for the win!

[–]frooschnate11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

My 1st divorce,

How many tries did you need man

[–]civilizedfrog20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

Did she cheat? Or was it the deadbedroom?

[–]bosshawg50283 points84 points  (24 children) | Copy

Lol OPs mom is a bitch for that.

[–]one_more_iteration74 points75 points  (21 children) | Copy

Part of getting over my divorce and starting to swallow TRP is coming to terms that women are just using what the government sanctions for them.

Imagine you're living with someone for decades, bored of them completely, trying to ignore all the annoying shit they do all the time, day in, day out. Your family shits on him constantly. Your friends ask why you are still with him. The government basically says, "Oh, you're bored? No problem, leave him and we'll make sure you get at least half of his shit."

If you can leave with absolutely no consequences whatsoever, keep your resources, and be rid of a major annoyance, why the fuck not?

The only way to take this power away from the government is to not get married. Men have to realize they are the only gatekeepers for their resources. The government will bend over backwards to fuck you in the ass otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't see women who do this as "bitches". They are humans put in a very comfortable position and simply following through.

Divorce is punishment for a stupid decision. Full stop

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (19 children) | Copy

Excuse me, I am relatively new here (have read sidebar for those wondering).

What do you think people that are religious should do? Like we have to get married I guess? So if we do, what would be the best precautionary measures we could take to avoid divorce rape or to at least lower its blowback effect?

(Btw I am from the UK)

[–]one_more_iteration25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you're coming from a conservative culture, and marry a conservative girl, your chances are a little better. For instance, I have several beta friends/associates who married Filipinas who haven't left them and seem quite content.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with marriage. It creates a family structure, several of which solidify a community, and networks of communities are the foundation for a culture, a nation. But in the modern world it is just too easy and tempting to shirk values for resources.

If you want to get married and stay married? Be a man. Be masculine, stay in shape, have a career, be a role model for your kids, fuck her real good, all the time. And be damn sure you get your dick wet before you say your vows.

Part of the reason women find it so easy to leave men is because we are so thoroughly feminized in today's culture.

[–]Westwood_111 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

You have to look at marriage within its societal context. In Biblical times the culture was much more masculine and marriage was more binding. A woman caught cheating on her spouse could be killed; women didn't initiate divorces, and when divorce did occur, the man kept his property. And because the church was the state, religious definitions of marriage (and the religious expectations attached to marriage) were civilly enforced to one degree or another.

The word "marriage" continues to be used today, but in a much different social context. Currently, marriage is predominantly civil - while religious authorities may officiate the ceremony, the secular state is ultimately the entity sanctioning the union. The state has its own (increasingly feminized) expectations that go with marriage, and it enforces them with vigor. Theoretically, the religious expectations about marriage remain; however, churches today lack the ability to enforce those expectations. Practically speaking, the only your personal commitment holds you to the religious elements of the marriage - and the same is true of your spouse.

What this means is that you're going to need to find someone who is ideologically compatible with you and believes (in your faith) as much or more than you do. She needs to think that she will literally burn in Hell if she cheats on you, etc. You'll want to date for a long time before committing so that you can see some of the bad sides of her. And you're going to want a prenup.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is great advice man, thank you.

[–]Westwood_10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No sweat. And good luck. It's a hard thing to be religious and start a family in this world and I wish you the best.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Im 18, so have a lot of time. I am just thinking about what I wanna do with my life. I have been kind of sleep walking for like the last 3/4 years. Nofap and theredpill is a life savior. God bless you.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I worry that you're couching the legal institution of marriage within your religious worldview, instead of the other way around. Like every other influence from society that tells you to get married and "live the dream", religious ideology is a tool to manipulate you into a position where other people have power over you. While I can't answer UK specific questions, the religious background would likely have very little bearing in the division of assets during your divorce. You can always get a pre-nup (I assume), but pre-nups can be found to be non-binding after the fact.

[–]wanderer7796 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you read the bible you'll see they didn't have what we have today. Otherwise it would have been, "ye, and Noah's wife said she was unfulfilled, and Noah was ordered by God to jump overboard and tread water till the flood had subsided, and his wife kept the ark for herself, along with the children and livestock. And God saw that it was good, and blessed her with a new husband, and ordered Noah to build her a new house, and give 70% of his harvest to her and her new husband every year for the next 500 years".

Just cause we kept calling it marriage doesn't mean it is. Marriage as they prescribed in the bible hasn't existed for quite a while.

[–]Scanline60 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nice passage hah. Sometimes it is scary when you don’t think about the trap that culture sometimes inevitably becomes. Culture is like religion in that way, there are inertias, stuff passed down, indexed and remembered as a static thing when things are constantly changing and if you do not change, you will be rudderless under the current. Despite all the advancement, in terms of domestic affairs, men had it better in the past. Now the institution of marriage is monetized; the latest insidious scheme invented, one that is so hard for men not to fall for because to wake up from it you have to die and be reborn again, stripped away of all that you understood, unplugged, painfully.

The sad truth is society is constantly manipulating its constituents. namely the people that make it up. There is no one source to blame, we are all guilty. We are manipulating ourselves, taking from the nameless many and feeding to the few channels of power. That’s the hierarchy, the game we are all forced to play because there isn’t anything else; this is nature’s best solution: Might is right. Now that we have more money than ever in the global economy, there will only be more schemes for the normalization of the hamster wheel. And the varieties and flavours are only going to be more astonishing.

Waking up doesn’t mean life is any better because hell, the truth hurts but you are better armed and no longer harmless.

[–]gulag_disco2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hey, man. I definitely can not answer the specific question you asked because I’ve never married. What I can tell you is that caving to the social pressures of your community against your own rational self-interest is anathema within TRP.

No one can tell you that you living as a Red-Pill-aware man is more important than your relationship with your Heavenly Father. I think, however, you’ll find difficulty satisfying both philosophies simultaneously, seeing that TRP is heavily influenced by evolutionary psychology.

You may have to date some ungodly women. You might even like it.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

> No one can tell you that you living as a Red-Pill-aware man is more important than your relationship with your Heavenly Father.

Religious ideology is inherently subjective, while TRP deals with more objective ideas and how they are interpreted/implemented by society. If he truly believes that belief is more important than reality, that is his prerogative, yes.

[–]bcrice033 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't have to do anything, do you think a priest is going to show up at your house and arrest you if you don't get married? Haha.

Grow a set of balls and live life by your own code, not by some ancient religion that has refused to adapt to how much modern society has changed from thousands of years ago.

[–]grewapair0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Here's what you do. You ask yourself whether your religion is still relevant in a world that has changed, and what good it is doing for you as opposed to everyone else. If the answer is it is making you worse off, while serving everyone else, you need to blow it off. You only get one life. Don't willingly enslave yourself over it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nofap, theredpill and everything is enough at 18. Now this lol, I want out haha. Too much to think about fuck me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just have a “marriage” but don’t sign the papers

Have a wedding, get a ring, change her last name. But don’t sign up to be legally married. Note this won’t work in common law marriage countries/states.

[–]monadyne0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do you think people that are religious should do?

Your asking this question reveals the essential problem of religion. It's not merely the beliefs that the religion's sacred texts imposes on someone, but the demands that the religious community places on its members. Such communities are tribal in nature, and require that everyone in the tribe suppress their own individual needs/goals/desires in deference to what the tribe itself wants. If you do what the tribe dictates you get rewarded by being told that you are a good person and that your deity will reward you. If you choose to do what *you* want with your life, you're punished: told you're bad (or even "evil"!) and that your deity will torture you throughout eternity for your transgressions.

In some religions, this stuff is just hinted at. In others, it's shoved down your throat. In either case, when looked at rationally, it's batshit crazy. And the only reason why a sane person would believe such nonsense is because everybody he depends upon for support and love believes it, and he knows that if he stops believing, their love and support will turn to condemnation. How could you mistake that for actual love!

Sorry for the rant, everyone. I just felt that this Londoner is in a dicey predicament.

Sorry, china.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your time, that is a valid point I guess.

[–]red-pill-man-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

People that are "religious" should stop believing in a Sky Fairy.

[–]bosshawg5021 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Okay maybe she was just doing what women do because AWALT (even your own mother.) But the bitch part comes for telling her son how bad she tried to rail her dad. Could have left that part out mom. Now your son gets another seed of hatred planted in the back of his head, because if his own mother would attempt that with his father, what could a woman do to him?

[–]1scissor_me_timbers000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuckin hell, I remember hearing my mom yelling at my dad in a guttural growl saying “Hit me! Hit me!”.

My dad is super calm and didn’t fall into that trap. I was like 7 or 8 at the time.

Anyway I just remember my mom being a raging bitch at certain times too.

[–]Watchingcluturefade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If I knew my mother did that I would lose MASSIVE amounts of respect for her, what a terrible story

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (5 children) | Copy

There was a guy on Joe Rogans show who is a Canadian, he can't ever step foot in Canada because the divorce court based his yearly income on his highest ever yearly income. As a result he was made to pay $40k per month to his ex-wife. He currently earns around $50k a year and is still required to pay $40k a month in alimony. I can't remember the guys name or I would link it. But if he ever steps foot in Canada again its life in prison for him.

Even the ex-wifes lawyers were telling her to accept a better deal for him, because currently she gets nothing, but out of spite she didn't. She already got all his assets.

[–]BroseppeVerdi12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

For perspective: The guy is Dave Foley. You might remember him from a show called News Radio. These days he's an occasional stand up comic. In his last special (which is on Netflix, I believe), he said the judge told him that his "ability to pay was not relevant to his obligation to pay".

[–]therealjohnfreeman 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Dave Foley, linked elsewhere in this thread (I'm on mobile).

[–]toiletpapermoney1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

According to Wiki, they remarried lol

[–]arian0n1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Clarification: he remarried his second wife, it's his first wife whom he owes an enormous amount in child support.

[–]andreas-mgtow29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy

Your dad has no power. WHEN your mom decides to go through with the divorce, the judge will award her half of the shit plus the house, alimony and child support by default.

No amount of posturing, "frame" or any other retarded "technique" will change that.

If he then goes through with his bluff and stops working, he will be jailed for non payment where he will most likely be ass raped.

After that, he will still be liable for back payments, rinse and repeat.

Never cohabitate. Never marry.

[–]brocklanders37916 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

you missed the entire point. he knew he would have been screwed in court; his power lied in the strength of his response.

[–]satellite7794 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

What about leaving the country with all the assets?

[–]tallwheel5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That really does become pretty much the best option at that point, doesn't it? And even then the number of countries you can flee to and get away with it is rapidly shrinking every year.

[–]shadowq81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agee with this guy, op's dad needs a hidden stash of money, stop pooling his networth into something that can be seized by courts.

[–]Narcissist45626 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’d lose all respect for my mother if she said some shit like that to me. If only the majority of women weren’t such parasitic cunts...

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Now that you got your justice/revenge porn wankery out of the way..

I survived divorce in 2017 rather well. Gotta go without lawyers. I got paid, got 50/50 custody and no support. I lost my house and that work there. Overall I got a payout, transferred the household debt to her and moved out. A fresh start in your late 30s isn’t so bad in retrospect.

I had to fight off a couple stabs from her on the support and custody. It required not backing down. I had some thrumbscrews to gently twist and the threat of going full on nuclear burn it all to the ground if I didn’t get my way. Gotta have some leverage in any negotiation. I also came into the asset split discussions with proposals that were subtly favorable to me so I could concede some and end up where I wanted to be.

Continue to have a decent parental and friendly relationship with the ex. Now she tells me of her friends that are jealous of our coparenting and relationship and how much she herself loves the arrangement. 50/50 custody is awesome if you can’t live with your kids.

Biggest advice I can give is twofold. No lawyers obviously. Most importantly you gotta win the frame battle post separation. There will definitely be a battle as the new social relationship gets established. I was behind the 8ball working from a a shattered frame, a relationship of “equals” and all the other bloop shit and pulled off the win. Helps being righteously pissed and giving zero fucks. Use that feeling to your advantage.

There’s a ton of greedy thots and fucked up people out there. Not all of them go to that extreme especially if all you base your worldview on are the fucked up anecdotes that get highlighted here. Come to a workable win/win situation and you’re very likely to get somewhere with it.

Best thing that ever happened to me was getting divorced.

[–]kejflk34jlkd 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

2018 version: "good luck, I'll put all my assets into bitcoin and flee to SE Asia"

[–]Narcissist45613 points14 points  (22 children) | Copy

And never see your kids again? It’s not that easy.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist9 points10 points  (12 children) | Copy

Trust me, your kids seem much less worth it when you find out how little she values your input.

[–]Narcissist45623 points24 points  (11 children) | Copy

I don’t give a fuck what a wet hole thinks about my input. She can input 1,000 fat hairy cocks right up her ass for all I care. That doesn’t mean my kids would need me in their lives any less.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

Good thing you're there to provide for them and do the right thing.

[–]Narcissist4564 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah if they’re MY kids (not the pool boy’s) I sure will be.

[–]jytrader0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When the judge seizes your assets for turnover it won't matter if you are or aren't the father.

"In some states, paternity fraud also happens through a process known as "the presumption of paternity." This happens when a man is designated by the state as the child's biological father simply because he and the mother were married at the time of the child's birth or conception. An actual law in some states, the presumption of paternity causes some men to pay child support on behalf of children they are not related to—in some cases, even long after the misattributed paternity is apparent."

Remember: In a child support courtroom, the least important person is almost always the full grown adult with a penis.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

I don’t know your background but you seem to sound a little bit off to me. Are you coming from some personal situation? Care to elaborate?

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Nu male conceptualizations of fatherhood are one of the last remaining strangleholds women have on men.

Here's the setup.

  1. Nu Male gives himself red pill knowledge and calls himself "purple pill." Or maybe buys into 90% of TRP but then decides that "a true alpha" or "real alpha" leads men, or something else like that. Not realizing our conceptualization is amoral for a reason.
  2. Competes for male status to demonstrate provisioning ability. Uses a couple TRP hat tricks to tell himself he's the man.
  3. Women "settles down" with him.
  4. Any variety of issues between this happen. But attraction is lost or someone else edges him out.
  5. Divorce is imminent, and male decides he will "fight for his children" or as GLO would say spreads his cheeks for the right to be a single mother with a penis
  6. She thanks her new au pair so that she can rediscover herself with her biweekly vacation from motherhood enabled by weak men and the state. "Billy, you are such a great dad. I don't know what happened with us."

Then comes on here and brags about it or on another subreddit. Truth of the matter is, the guys that really understand this are more in line with what I'd say is "your happy estranged uncle."

He understands that a woman's family is her children and a man's family exists so long as the unit is in tact.

If it fails, you start over and you enforce your frame.

This is a post that can't be sufficiently covered in this reply, because I have no idea how to articulate the concept that men set their own boundaries in this case to enforce frame.

But /u/gaylubeoil and me are in agreeance on this, and u/whisper hit in on the head with the idea that men sire children.

If men have an interest in single father hood, so be it. But I don't believe its a value system we should be promoting here, my experience and understanding of the frameworks is part of my position on this as well.

Men should only offer their provisioning to women whom they have a family with, to the degree their children need it, while they are within the family unit.

Men let women stage manage them and drag them through court on their good will alone which actually, is their own ego, disguised as protonumale values rebadged as "new" male values.

E.g. I'm being "a real man" because my ex-wife is crazy.

Cue a man lighting himself on fire to keep his kids and his ex-wife warm.

And you know what? Turns out when you enforce that frame a lot of women come around and your kids are better for it, so long as she can keep herself in line.

This is a concept that is not yet ironed out within our framework, but I believe the answer lies in both theory and experience.

These value systems must be rejected by men, en masse, to retain power within the SMP.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you were not already an EC, I would make you one for this.

Add some detail, and rework this into an article, and I'll have it stickied.

[–]Rian_Stone1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe less robust than usual.

I've seen elements of it play out with my own parents. Step father seems to have gotten his winning strategy, 20 year younger wife #4 and his new 2 year old son. Meanwhile the nice 'startup power couple' I met in san fran sleep in different bedrooms, while the wife drops hints about how she was never the LTR type

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

U/redpillschool promised the same. Been working on the book post by post Rollo style.

But the rough idea we covered in my RPEC post.

Appreciate the support, baking until ready.

[–]Narcissist4561 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Supporting your own biological children doesn’t make you a “single mother with a penis.”

Boys without a father in their lives grow up to be broken adults. They end up in prison, rehab, or dead. Girls without a father in their lives grow up to be the same broken women everyone complains about on this sub and on asktrp. They develop mental health issues (bpd, etc) and seek out strangers’ cocks to fill the void. The data speaks for itself.

Why have children if you don’t give a rat’s ass how they turn out?

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think that my value stems from being able to control what women do. Do you?

[–]throwaway2_5_5_20 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You'll never win the custody anyway.

[–]ideserveall0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As if they were realy your kids

[–]kejflk34jlkd 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

"and I'm taking the kids with me"

[–]Narcissist4564 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Then the sheriff shows up at your doorstep...

[–]kejflk34jlkd 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

good thing I already have tickets booked and a uber waiiting

[–]Narcissist45612 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

They stop you at the airport if your wife calls the cops and tells them you’re abducting the kids. The bottom line is marriage is financial and psychological suicide.

[–]MagnusRexus4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

No use, bro. These guys are trapped in a TRP-fueled dreamland of inexperience.

[–]Filofa1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous. The IRS could track you quite easily.

Luckily for us, there exists Monero.

[–]shadowq80 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So what scenario would you follow if you do this ?

Sell all assets, take all loans buy a lot.of Monero and airplane tickets.

Sell all monero ?

[–]Filofa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. Or you can spend the Monero itself.

[–]Winterpreter7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just do the right thing, don't get married to anyone, go live together and all but, don't give another person the power to ruin your life anytime, marriage is just religious propaganda embedded into our normal society.

[–]ShavedApel2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wish it was that easy some people live in countries where if you live together you are married. I guess the government realises that men are smartening up to how retarded modern marriage is so they have to force marriage onto them.

[–]Rian_Stone6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

My stepfather did this too. Worked like a charm

[–]Youngyoda898 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

A quick word of advice here- don’t get angry when your friends try to swim in your wake. When you’re the alpha it is expected of you to offer up your old plates to those who aren’t getting enough to eat.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

you saying you want his dad's sloppy seconds?

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon73 points74 points  (22 children) | Copy

Nice story. But that’s not how divorce proceedings would go.

Your dad called her bluff.

The real question is why HE didn’t divorce a woman who didn’t want to be with him.

What a pussy.

[–]Starcruiser2832 points33 points  (7 children) | Copy

By calling her bluff he saved his assets, he was in it for the long haul so keeping his shit at this point in time was the better option to him. That is how I would look at it. he could go find strange if he needed to, or she was pissed about something and tried to one up his ass and he called her bluff and she folded.

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon20 points21 points  (6 children) | Copy

Meh. He still kept a woman around who didn’t want him and kept adding value to her life

[–]Zoltiel[S] 46 points47 points  (5 children) | Copy

Because it's better to live in a studio and drive a 99 civic as a 50+ year old man..

So when you get shit tested do you just drop a woman immediately because it means she doesn't want you?

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy

Depends. But chances are going to see an attorney isn’t a shit test.

Anyway. You should probably argue this with someone else. I’m in the process of getting divorced because I value my life.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's no argument his dad is free to do whatever he wants so are you

[–]LukesLikeIt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

But he’s right. At the very least it should have raised red flags. It’s about respecting yourself

[–]Jampak_50000 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

omg - trp endorsed getting divorced, do tell....

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol. What’s to tell ? I was done

[–]1Goomich8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

a woman who didn’t want to leave him.

This means she wanted to stay with him. Double negatives cancel themselfs.

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea yes. I know I made a typo

[–]BewareTheOldMan8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I chalk it up to one of the few rough patches that most married couples go through as she was thinking about it, but was not truly serious. She did the cost benefit analysis and decided divorce was not in her best interest. A woman who goes through all that effort to preview divorce is also thinking about her post-divorce life. Divorced women with kids don't fare as well on the open market.

I suspect the OP's father didn't flinch, but they also worked through that particular rough patch. If she changed her mind, then it wasn't even a serous issue.

Years ago if a man just up and quit his job or got a lower paying job, alimony and child support was calculated at the amount of current employment versus previous employment - that tactic doesn't fly in the 21st Century. If a man tries that tactic today the court sees it as an attempt to evade alimony and/or child support.

It's mostly as a precaution to ensure child support as the state doesn't want that burden. If you were being a good, responsible father prior to divorce, the state is ensuring you will be a good, responsible father in post-divorce as well.

[–]SuperCrazy073 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

that tactic doesn't fly in the 21st Century. If a man tries that tactic today the court sees it as an attempt to evade alimony and/or child support.

That was my first thought...this wouldn't work today unless the man had no assets and really was ok with trainwrecking his life.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

The real question is why HE didn’t divorce a woman who didn’t want to leave him.

Why would you want to divorce a woman who wants to be with you..

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon20 points21 points  (5 children) | Copy

Lol. She went to see a lawyer about divorce

[–]Zoltiel[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

That means she didn't want to be with him, you said "who didn't want to leave him" which means she wants to stay.

[–]Adem872 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, but for what reason. Obviously not love. Therefore nobody would hold such a woman.

[–]CodeOverflow19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

The hamster is going strong I see..

[–]shadowq80 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So she won't divorcee rape you ?

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who knows. I like my life without her.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd have dumped her when the time suited me after that anyway....

After all she's already thinking about it, she'll try it again later, and things will only get worse..the longer you leave it, the less of your lifetime you have left to build something back up again after the divorce fucks you over.

[–]BobLordOfTheCows4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Threatened with divorce? Put all your assets into cryptocurrency, leave the country.

[–]Adem879 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

She will divorce rape him, when he retires. Saving money for this moment isn’t an option.

He should stop working. Spend all his savings, till he has nothing.

This would be the last point, where she would leave him and that’s fantastic.

[–]shadowq81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man fuck marriage in the west, only an idiot would get married under western laws.

[–]S-Blaze8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm telling any good guys that I know to not marry. My own parents were on the edge of divorce maybe 2 or 3 times (father threw a chandelier at my mom once lol) but they struck through it, a rare dedication. Lots of drama from my mom obviously (they all do) but my father knows how to handle that shit. He knows how to balance strength and comfort now. Great man and so is my mom, love them both so much, no one is perfect. Dont marry.

[–]DeadliftRx 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Think about it guys.

  1. You already fucked up and got married.

  2. She's got you by the balls.

  3. She's yanking hard.

Take. Away. Her leverage. Quit your job. Buddy your money in a swamp, let thr payments fall through. She gets nothing.

And if all else fails and youre going to jail, anyway, remember that violence solved a lot of problems in the past.

[–]JGdc127 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

going to jail is a no from me dawg

[–]DeadliftRx8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Eirher a slave to the system or slave to a woman. Take your pick.

[–]Lambdal78 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

Prenups guys. Yes, there are instances where they get invalidated, but those are extremely, extremely rare, 0.01% of them maybe. Happy to reconsider if someone finds opposing numbers.

[–]Narcissist4568 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Do prenups allow you to avoid paying alimony?

[–]Westwood_12 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yes. You're still on the hook for child support, and any conditions about custody won't be enforced (since the state does what is "best for the children" on a case-by-case basis) but stipulations about property are enforced. And that includes alimony.

[–]Narcissist4560 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is good to know, thank you.

[–]InfiniteSpur0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This only works for pre marital assets.

[–]Westwood_10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nope. Varies from state to state, but it's actually fairly common for prenups to reference alimony and either 1) lock in the current alimony laws; 2) waive alimony (which courts occasionally ignore if it would create "inequity" at the time of divorce) or 3) establish an alternative alimony scheme.

Additionally, prenups commonly identify what property remains individually held, what property will be jointly held, and how future assets will be held.

[–]brocklanders37913 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

that was a savage move by your father. I'd like to know how you percieved your mother after her little revelation.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Didn't change anything. Those were rough times and cheating accusations flying around so I don't blame her.

[–]brocklanders37912 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

fair enough brother, fair enough.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I told my ex the same thing. Also made sure I married a college-educated woman with a decent career, who earns income close to mine. I'll burn the whole thing down before I will work to subsidize the lifestyle of the lazy bitch that didn't think our marriage was worth enough effort to bother with the issues. I'd rather work part-time, live in an apartment and spend great, quality dime with my daughter than slave to make 120k and give 30% to her while she works part-time and spends my money on her social life. Earn it yourself. This is 2018 and there's your "Equality"!

[–]yumyumgivemesome4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can only wonder if divorces are just massive shit tests from wives.

This is an incredible TRP ShowerThought if I've ever read one.

[–]LotBuilder12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy

A real alpha trades her in for 2 20 year olds. Staying married to a woman that dislikes you to that point is miserable.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 6 points7 points  (11 children) | Copy

Did you read the part where the lawyers said my mom would get everything?

[–]LotBuilder13 points14 points  (10 children) | Copy

That’s not how it works. Yes, guys get screwed in divorce but 3 years post divorce the men are in better financial shape than the women.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy

Depends on how long you have been married. If it was a couple years, yes I agree with you. If it is 20+ it is pretty much over for you, in my country at least (USA). That is why a lot of guys blow their brains out when they get the news if they've been married that long, they know it's over for them. A well known successful doctor did it in my city not too long ago.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you're a man getting divorced raped to the point of no return, I completely understand smoking the wife before smoking one's self.

[–]--Edog--5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd post my suicide note on Facebook and tell all mutual friends and family why I did it.

[–]hbss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Once ur dead, she can make up all the acusations she wants with no confrontation or consequences whatsoever

[–]crimsonkodiak3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If it is 20+ it is pretty much over for you, in my country at least (USA).

That's not entirely true. While it's the case that many states have guidelines that provide that marriages of 20+ years can have perpetual alimony, it's always been the case that the alimony obligation ceases upon the recipient's remarriage/cohabitation or the payor's retirement. Increasingly, there's been a shift away from perpetual awards anyway, as courts have begun to provide for shorter (often reviewable) time periods. And the amounts aren't that high. It varies by state, but in all states it's less than half of income and is further reduced by the recipient's income.

[–]LotBuilder2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am also in the US and 10 years is the cut off for lifetime alimony. I’m familiar with this as I am going through a divorce of 10+ years. Divorce is expensive because it is worth it. I found myself to be much more productive and successful without a nagging wife in my ear. If you are a smart guy, you can structure your income in ways that minimizes how much you have to pay for life. I own my own business and run many expenses through the business. She gets paid off of what I pay myself. After she gets starved a bit and sees you know how to play the game, Make a lower lump sum offer and get her out of your hair. Women who need your money are in a very vulnerable, while they are takers they also know you can turn off the faucet at any time. They all take the sure thing. If they are pretty enough to land a beta bux they go in that direction quickly.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That sucks man. Thanks for sharing.

[–]--Edog--0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That's a national statistic I hear repeated a lot, but I wonder how that breaks down by income level and what city/state you live in. Seems hard to believe an average man who makes the "average" salary of $50,000 a year and is ordered to pay alimony and child support every month would be in better financial shape after 3 years. Here in Southern California that man would be pretty poor; Consider that a two to three bedroom apartment rents for between $1500 to $2300 a month (depending on what part of town you live in.) Then add in health insurance, car insurance, utilities, a car payment, groceries, taxes, gas. etc. I just don't see how "3 years" magically changes that cash flow calculation unless that man has one 15 year old child who turns 18 and no longer qualifies for child support. I guess I am going to be "researching" this first hand since I am getting divorced next month.

[–]LotBuilder0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

  1. We both understand the CA economy and that the $50k is making a lot more off the books... or he simply doesn’t live in Southern CA.

  2. Men adjust. They adjust how they receive income, get side jobs, change careers, etc. They don’t just work full time to keep 1/3rd of their pay and cry about. If they do, then they deserve it.

[–]--Edog--0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

  1. "Simply doesn't live in Southern California" - so he moves out of state, is no longer part of his kids' lives and only sees them once or twice a year? 2. Not ALL men are suddenly capable of boosting their income by $25k to $30k. Some are. Some aren't. There are factors like age, level of education, I.Q./mental ability, physical health issues, mental health issues etc. It's not universal.

[–]RedPilledRoaster2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Did I mention, don’t get fucking married?

[–]DaddyGroove2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cant get divorce raped if you dont get married in the first place

[–]punjabijaber2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to go through the same thing with my ex and every time I told her fuck off, but my favourite was the time she got a lawyer involved, I get a letter from this feminazi lawyer every single dad in town goes on about getting screwed from, so the letter is saying the usual they wanted me to commit to some arrangement they had drafted up, It was all good on her part I worked hard all week to pay her and then I got to take the kids all weekend to give her a break, or go on the cock carousel while she got a free babysitter basically, fuck that, not only did I give her a good cash in hand payment each week I asked for the kids when I had time wich was about 2 nights a week for dinner or help with homework ect. as they only stayed a few streets away from my dad who I was living with early on. and I took them out every Sunday without fail no overnighters though. anyway, I check my rights online and I write a handwritten letter back saying they can't do a fucking thing unless I first commit to an arrangement first and that I won't ever commit to anything on paper If she wanted to keep the kids that would be fine as I had just been offered a job abroad, I also told the lawyer to fuck-off with the junk mail letters or I would start proceedings for her harassing me. the next week I get a letter from the lawyer saying that my spelling and grammar was terrible and that was it the matter would be closed. I see that as a win as for my spelling and grammar you can probably tell I'm not all that good but my job doesn't need it and I get along fine without it. and a few months later she went to the child support to get more money from me and the child support people actually reduced my payments lol moral of the story don't trust anyone even professionals her lawyer was first trying to get me to sign my life away. and always look up you're rights as a father. sometimes you just need to pay up.

[–]ChrimsonChin988 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Idk dude. I always say never do a bluff you’re not willing to follow through on, because when someone calls your bluff, you’re done.

[–]hbss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Also, imagine how your family will loose all respect for you because you stayed not out of love, but for money.

It’s like she don’t want him anymore and is just planning a way of running with his assets. That’s awful imo and I hope this family finds a way to move on.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The sad realities of a western civilisation. I wonder if it is the price you pay to be the "leaders" in emancipation, human rights and "democracy".

[–]captainfashion1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I was almost divorced from my wife. Took years of marriage counseling and many long discussions at night.

The stress took years off my life undoubtedly.

However, I am a man of my principles and I will not bend them for anyone, including my wife. When I make a promise I damn well keep it. I made a vow to my wife and I told her that I will not break it simply because she is unhappy. We have two small kids and I told her there was no way in hell I was going to put our children through that kind of trauma. I was not going anywhere, so she better start trying to fix things.

After finding an excellent marriage counselor and my wife realizing that a lot of her problems were due to the fact that she suffered from attention deficit disorder, she's now medicated and things have never been better.

Holding frame is not about putting yourself first and telling the world to f*** off. It's about being principled and tenacious when it comes to living and practicing your beliefs.

Scarface said it best. I've only got two things in this world. My word and my balls, and I don't break them for No One.

[–]hbss0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Hi and congrats for getting ur marriage on track again. That’s amazing.

Just a question; how being so hard with her “we fix this or we fix this “, she didn’t tried any fuckery?

I mean; woman have plenty of opinions for breaking a marriage

[–]captainfashion2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nope. I just said, "I'm not leaving", and gave her lots of reasons why that divorce would be a horrible idea.
Eventually she tried counseling (again) and we went through a long series of therapy sessions. In the meantime I did a lot of reading.
Eventually things started coming back together. The biggest piece was her getting on some damn ADD medication.

I came across this video by Jordan Peterson a little while ago and played it for my wife recently. She listened and said, "Those are the same things you said to me"
Here's a link:

[–]hbss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You handled it like a master, I’d never have had that much patience. Big props

[–]fatboy-slim1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wow! Your dad is beast man!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy

he pretty much told her that he would just quit his six figure job and she wouldn't get jack. After this news, she folded and called off the divorce.

Yea, sounds like he had 'a lot of power'. Get rid of everything just so some cunt won't get your stuff, what is this bullshit? And your idiot dad is still married to this cunt, seriously?

[–]MuhTriggersGuise10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

While I get where you're coming from, ya gotta be such a fucking dick? That's OP's parents. Have a little tact. You sound like an angsty teenager.

[–]somecatgirl 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

OP is an angsty teenager. His parents are idiots and obviously only care about money over quality of life

[–]MuhTriggersGuise7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

And yet he's not running around calling everyone cunts. Weird.

[–]Zoltiel[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not everyone's perfect, I wish things could have been better growing up but it is what it is.

[–]DeadliftRx-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Are you suggesting that you believe money and property make you a man?

Perhaps you are not a man.

[–]btrpb1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Money, property. And gainz. 😂

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you believe alimony, an empty bank account and no house is what makes you a man? Fucking loser, willing to give up everything just to get access to a hole. The thirst is real...

[–]DeadliftRx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. Must have struck a nerve.

Tangible items mean nothing unless we are taking about our temples - our bodies. A Man is a leader, so it's what you know and how he behaves, not what he owns. This is why poor men can still pull HB9's.


[–]mxwell890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Of course a man could avoid that situation entirely by not getting married at all, it's a bad deal.

[–]btharmony0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

your dad is still a beta cuck for being with her though?

[–]hiddenpleasures1230 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Watched my best friend's life ripped into pieces because of marriage and kids.

He lives with me and can barely afford to pay his half of the 250 a month rent I charge him. He eats as if he lives in poverty. I often cook extra for him. He makes 32,5 a year before taxes.

He has support income he has to pay, and a car loan that's in his name, which he doesn't have possession of anymore. He lost assets: TV, guns, stereo equipment, motorcycle, computers, phones, tablets. He took on some of her debt on several thousand dollar credit cards.

Why? Because when she cheated on him, he wouldn't forgive her and that emotionally abused her. I mean, I wouldn't forgive a woman that was cheating with her co-worker for almost 6 months.


[–]Razkolol0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'm sure there are ways to safeguard your assets like buying crypto with a good chunk of your savings. Also having a backup plan in case of divorce like OP's dad, quit your job immediately, search for freelance work, get all of your shit to your parents or a friends house, meet with all of the best divorce lawyers in town (to limit her options). If you actually own the place don't ever leave, change the locks instead and pack her shit, etc. plenty of shit you can do for damage limitation but most guys just get caught offguard that's how they lose everything.

[–]hiddenpleasures1230 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

why are you getting married though if you need to safeguard?

You wanna safeguard your shit? Don't get married. Don't ever disclose your finances and hide your assets from the beginning.

I keep a floor safe in my place, my chick is never allowed to look inside it. I have a HD motion sensing camera that's got backup power on that safe. I get an alert on my phone anytime it's set off, if the WiFi goes down, power goes out.

[–]Razkolol0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Well if you do it right it's like having a maid/cook that you can fuck whenever. You can limit the damage a lot too if you know anything about asset management and finances. You can hold half your shit in crypto, have assets in your parents name (I don't think her lawyer is going to be able to get your dad's car/motorcycle and condo). If you're smart about it I don't see that many risks, but then again I don't live in US or any of the European left wing extremist countries so I'm not familiar with their laws.

Edit: forgot about the reproduction part, if you actually want kids you kinda need to get married at one point, having a women dealing with the early part when they just eat/shit/scream can also open up your schedule. If you don't you can just forget the whole thing and spin plates forever. Personally I could see myself doing just that forever but mindset/plans etc. might change when I get into my 30/40s.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well if you do it right it's like having a maid/cook that you can fuck whenever.

You don’t have a slightest idea what are you talking about.

[–]Razkolol0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If that's not the case no point in ever getting married. But I think it's doable if you stick to redpill principles. But yea I have not been married, I'm talking in theory that this would be only arrangement I would ever consider.

[–]WolfgangBreitweit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She was calculating. Most women can’t do that properly. Anyway, in my case I would have divorced after that. But your dad stayed because of you.

[–]unsureDummy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. I like the clear perspective you have on your parents' issue. I'd have expected any regular guy to accuse his dad of being an ass under his mom's self righteous influence

[–]Halcyonrobot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Check this out from an actor getting screwed by the courts because of making too much when a divorce happened.

[–]wss51120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love reading this kind of post, family law related as I’m currently studying and the female empowerment norm indirectly weakening most of the males because empowerment is a zero sum game and feminists is too clever to accept this basic rule.

The current norm is probably even worse for male because even though female could work and support themselves, the judges are human and emotional. They were selected based on their personality and sympathy to relate in cases to be able to make a sensible judgement and property alteration.

Even though we’re moving towards an appears to be sexist free legal environment, the human like judges that operates still tend to share sympathy towards female and even though there’s now no presumption of maternal care, most of the cases child are better off to live with their mother as a matter of practical reality.

Men are just gonna be even worsen off in case of relationship breakdown because men are never in a truly better position and women are more protected than before. Relatively speaking, the increased protection for women is a zero sum game to men and men just keep losing our territory.

[–]BoGiggity320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Someone once told me a woman wont leave if she thinks you'll be happier without her. Seems legit.

[–]AllahHatesFags0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Every man facing divorce should do this. Tell the wife you will go live in the woods like the fucking Unabomber if she divorces you and she won't get shit.

[–]deiith0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why is this sub full of divorce threads? Is it that hard to make a prenup in the States? Honestly asking, because it sounds strange that men wouldn’t consider this before marriage

[–]Spiral-knight0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A prenup is helpful but it is far from bulletproof. In court it will offer you some protection but it is not the invincible protection against divorce rape it's perceived as

[–]somecatgirl 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I read these so I can see what incels really think but in this case your mom is just broke and lazy and your dad seems like a depressed asshole who cares about nothing, not even himself, his wife, you, or their marriage; Now your parents are in a loveless marriage. Congrats on the fact you think your dad “won” when in fact he lives his life in a hollow relationship. Money isn’t everything, and both your parents are miserable, which explains you.

[–]codeflack1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

So if everyone involved is an asshole in their own way, what exactly is it about this post that annoys you?

[–]somecatgirl 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

OP thinking his father trumped his mother when really both of them are miserable now. There was no “win” here. Just a sad realization that his parents see money as more important than their happiness.

[–]codeflack2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

his parents see money as more important than their happiness.

You can’t really make that judgement based off of one conversation supposedly had together. You’re just taking the narrative of “disagree with everything everyone says in this sub” IMHO

[–]acadiawaterbottle-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I commented on a post talking about the RP and I got down voted like crazy I still don’t understand why

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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