Introducing Married Red Pill Flair

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May 4, 2016

We've just added the new Married Red Pill flair which can be used to discuss strategy for both long term relationships which are being used like marriages (such as relationships including children), or for relationships which involve marriage contracts.

As TRP doesn't really advocate marriage as a terribly good option, these MRP flaired threads are specifically for help with these strategies for people who are either already married, have a family/children, or would like to start a family in today's culture.

These threads will be moderated to prevent the following:

  • No marriage shaming. The men who are participating already know that the situation isn't optimal. They are here to make the best of bad situation.

  • Some men may be here for advice on starting a family, this does not necessarily mean they need to sign a marriage contract or get legally married.

  • The discussion taking place shall not devolve into anti-marriage rants, but rather need to stay constructive on how best to manage a relationship and family.

  • You do not need to be legally married to participate, however these threads are generally reserved for those in families or looking to start one.

  • This flair should not be used to justify marriage as a good option. Even if you used TRP to get your marriage back on track, we don't want to let our hamsters run wild and try to change the reality that marriage is a bad deal for men all around.


Post Information
Title Introducing Married Red Pill Flair
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 275
Comments 197
Date 04 May 2016 11:17 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
long term relationshipthe red pill

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (6 children) | Copy

No marriage shaming.

Inb4 someone accuses this of turning TRP into a hugbox.

Someone's who's facing down a bear doesn't need advice on how to stay away from bears in mating season, they need advice on how to escape a bear.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Someone's who's facing down a bear doesn't need advice on how to stay away from bears in mating season, they need advice on how to escape a bear.


[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Regardless of my views on marriage nothing kills people off more from your social circle than by being a complete cunt. If people ask for help, give them help - if they do not accept the help - let them find out what happens next themselves.

Repeat after me: "Facts are not more important than having an adult, respectable group of friends."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed. Unsolicited advice is usually both unwelcome and unheeded.

[–]thatawsomedude11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think that falls under captain hindsight.

[–]Persaeus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They actually need advise on how to fuck the bear. That's the goal. Bear's are everywhere.

[–]StraightGlueWater160 points161 points  (39 children) | Copy

A friend of mine from high school lost contact with all of us about a year or two after graduation. He met a psychopathic girl who demanded his attention 24/7.

So naturally he knocked her up and married. They have 4 kids.

He works an incredibly difficult job, but has established a sterling reputation, is a genuinely good guy and gives an absolute master class on being a loving father. The dude lives and breathes for his kids. They've been together for 6 years now.

Imagine his surprise, when earlier this very week, he is approached by a police officer at his work. The police officer informs him that his wife has taken out a restraining order against him, and he is served with divorce papers.

No warning. The weekend prior they were away on a family vacation posting happy family photos on Facebook.

In his shock, he pulled out his phone to call her as soon as he was served by the cop, and the cop arrests him on the spot for breaking the restraining order. The dude didn't even have a chance to comprehend what was happening, and he was arrested at his workplace, in front of his boss and coworkers. I am not fucking joking.

He hasn't heard from his children in almost a week. His wife has responded to nothing. His family has attempted to contact hers, to no avail. As if the universe hasn't shit on this dude hard enough, it's his fucking birthday too.

This guy has NO RECOURSE. Until he can get in front of a judge, he has NO assurance of the safety of his children. He can't know what poison their mother is feeding them about their father. He can't ask them about their days at school. He can't kiss them goodnight. He will be arrested just for asking. For all he knows, she's left the state, or the country, or smothered her kids under pillows. You think your girlfriend missing her period gives you anxiety? Try having everything that matters to you in your life suddenly and without warning ripped away and hidden behind a massive force of police officers and lawyers.

Fuck. This. System.

Marriage is a six-shooter with five bullets. Every once in awhile the trigger gets pulled and nobody dies, but for every one who plays with the gun and lives to tell the tale, there's five who get fucked.

This guy had a promising future in a respectable career. He is now weeks away from being reduced to a complete wage slave on the hook for alimony and the support of 4 children for the next 16 years minimum. Meanwhile his wife is going to get financially reimbursed for kidnapping his children without warning, and she'll be told she's "so strong, so brave" in the process.

Stop reading these stories we share here and writing them off as simple anecdotes. You are not a special snowflake. You will not be the guy who survives the sinking of the Titanic- you will be the guy who is in the freezing cold water asking "Why the fuck did I get on that stupid fucking ship? FUCK."

Do Not Get Married.

[–]Benny75735 points36 points  (7 children) | Copy

As a long-time attorney in the family law field I saw this restraining order bullshit all the time. In fact, it's built into the process. The little missus (by the way, women initiate 70 percent of all divorces) can create a restraining order simply by drawing up a summons (yes, she could sign this herself, she doesn't need an attorney or judge - all she has to do is have the document served upon the poor sap.)

Here's the typical language as required by law in most states today. Men, you really are fucked in this gynocentric world. any minor violation will send the great white night cops or sheriff deputies to haul your ass into jail. Let the felonies commence.

Sorry guys, this is real shit here. Merely questioning "what's going on," can get you arrested. Because your "tone" is deemed abusive.

This will likely be right in your summons you receive, and the judge doesn't sign it, your SPOUSE who wants the divorce does!



(1) Restrained from transferring, encumbering, concealing or in any way dissipating or disposing of any marital assets, without the written consent of the other party or an order of the Court, except as may be necessary in the usual course of business or for the necessities of life. You are to notify the other party of any proposed extraordinary expenditures and to account to the Court for all extraordinary expenditures made after the temporary restraining Order is in effect;

(2) Restrained from molesting or disturbing the peace of the other party;

(3) Restrained from removing any minor child of the parties from the state without the written consent of the other party or an order of the court; and

(4) Restrained from making any changes to any insurance coverage for the parties or any child of the parties without the written consent of the other party or an order of the court unless the change under the applicable insurance coverage increases the benefits, adds additional property, persons, or perils to be covered, or is required by the insurer.3 Form UJS-311 Rev. 08/2011 INITIAL CUSTODY ORDER

Pursuant to SDCL 25-4A-11 et seq., upon service of this Summons the attached visitation guidelines become an order of this court. Any minor children of this marriage shall remain in the custody of the parent who has been the primary caregiver for the minor children for the majority of time in the twelve months preceding the filing of the summons and complaint, unless the parties otherwise agree. The guidelines are subject to any provision established by a South Dakota state court in a temporary or permanent domestic protection order, an order arising out of an abuse or neglect proceeding, a bond condition arising out of a criminal case, and an order in any other proceeding affecting child custody or support.

The attached guidelines shall apply and continue in effect unless the parties agree or the court otherwise orders. Imposition of these standard guidelines creates no presumption as to who may be awarded custody at any hearing. An agreement by the parties for visitation other than the standard guidelines must be in writing, signed by both parties, and filed with the court. The agreed plan shall be approved by court order and replace the standard guidelines or any plan previously filed.

If either party objects to this initial custody order in SDCL 25-4A-11 or the standard guidelines, the court shall order a hearing which shall be held not later than 30 days after the date of the objection. The court shall then issue its temporary custody and visitation order after considering the best interest of the child(ren) consistent with the provisions of SDCL 25-4-45.


Dated this _____ day of ___________, 20.

[–]NeomerArcana11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

This sort of thing only is America. Not all western countries are this insane. Surely.

[–]Benny75713 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

So I used to see this scenario all the time. She cheats. She serves divorce papers with this language. Dude gets mad and confronts her. Hollers and can't believe it. She calls the cops. "He's hollering." This is deemed abusive behavior.

The states attorney brings an enforcement action per the restraining order. Sap by he way is a hunter - has many valuable shotguns, rifles, etc. Court finds a violation because he hollered. Court takes away all of his guns and suspends hunting privileges, etc. In short, fucking kills his passion as a man.

This all because he hollered.

I've seen both male and female judges do this. Why? Because they have to be cautious, they will say. Better safe, than sorry later.

I once represented a woman. Mentally unstable, a loose cannon, the works. The guy had a nice gun collection. He was going for custody. She was clearly unstable.

In the property award, I got the judge to award all of the guy's guns to HER.


[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]1Entropy-71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In British Columbia the property restraining order is standard but an ex parte restraining order can get challenged fairly easily; if the judge wouldn't vacate the order then then next request was to make it a mutual restraining order which was always opposed by the wife, and she always lost. At least it removed the implied taint that he was the sole problem.

Geez, within 30 days? If wifey is doing something ex parte we could usually get into court the next business day to clean up loose ends before setting down a hearing a week or two later. It was a pain in the ass (because for lawyers, the less time you have to do something the more billable time it takes).

Christmas is ridiculous because women are withholding access or filing restraining orders and there is fuck all you can do until the courthouse opens again in the New Year. She would have to be getting on a plane to Australia in violation of a court order or some such thing to get a judge in to do anything.

[–]GarandTheftAvto1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

South Dakota? Can you explain how a restraining order without the signature of a judge could have force of law? Maybe I'm missing something, but every state I'm experienced with requires an ex-parte hearing in front of a judge or clerk magistrate for an emergency order.

[–]Benny7571 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's effective by virtue of this statute. It's automatic upon service. No hearing. If there is an alleged violation, a hearing can be scheduled to show why the violator should not be held in contempt of court. Scary, right?

25-4-33.1 — Automatic temporary restraining order upon service--Modification or revocation.

 25-4-33.1.   Automatic temporary restraining order upon service--Modification or revocation. Upon the filing of a summons and complaint for divorce or separate maintenance by the plaintiff, and upon personal service of the summons and complaint on the defendant, a temporary restraining order shall be in effect against both parties until the final decree is entered, the complaint dismissed, or until further order of the court:          (1)      Restraining both parties from transferring, encumbering, concealing, or in any way dissipating or disposing of any marital assets, without the written consent of the other party or an order of the court, except as may be necessary in the usual course of business or for the necessities of life, and requiring each party to notify the other party of any proposed extraordinary expenditures and to account to the court for all extraordinary expenditures made after the temporary restraining order is in effect;          (2)      Restraining both parties from molesting or disturbing the peace of the other party; and          (3)      Restraining both parties from removing any minor child of the parties from the state without the written consent of the other party or an order of the court.  The provisions of the temporary restraining order shall be printed upon the summons and shall become an order of the court upon fulfillment of the requirements of service. However, nothing in this paragraph precludes either party from applying to the court for any further relief or for the modification or revocation of any order. 

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Advice to any married man who has to deal with a restraining order or divorce papers or whatever.

LAWYER UP IMMEDIATELY! Only your lawyer is looking out for your interests. Everyone else is looking out for her interests. The courts, the police, her lawyer... Everyone.

Do not contact her, do not speak to her without your lawyer and preferably hers as well present.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some people's purpose in life is to serve as an example to others of what NOT to do.

[–]2Overkillengine17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are not a special snowflake. You will not be the guy who survives the sinking of the Titanic- you will be the guy who is in the freezing cold water asking "Why the fuck did I get on that stupid fucking ship? FUCK."

You can tell some people that they should not stick their finger in a live socket because they'll get electrocuted but some dumbfuck does it anyways.

It's the male version of how women think they can just show up and look good in yoga pants but bring nothing else to the table and get Chad to commit....and years later end up a 30+ year old single mom.

"I'm too special for that to happen to me!"

[–]NeoreactionSafe30 points31 points  (17 children) | Copy

Imagine his surprise, when earlier this very week, he is approached by a police officer at his work. The police officer informs him that his wife has taken out a restraining order against him, and he is served with divorce papers.

No warning. The weekend prior they were away on a family vacation posting happy family photos on Facebook.

In his shock, he pulled out his phone to call her as soon as he was served by the cop, and the cop arrests him on the spot for breaking the restraining order.

That's really extreme.

He obviously didn't read or understand that the restraining order included something as remote as a phone call. Wow.

A week ago I met a girl at a bar and she starts talking about her ex-husband as a felon. So I'm curious... I ask:

"Wow, he's a felon.... what did he do?"

"Oh, he violated a restraining order and was put in jail because of things he said to me." a woman's mind he was at fault and the fact she put him in jail says nothing about her but it all was about how bad he was.

This stuff is 100% real.

P.S: Even if you don't marry you can get all this shit thrown on you. She can retroactively declare your last sex act together as rape. Children born as bastards are still going to cost you 18 years of slavery.


[–]StraightGlueWater25 points26 points  (11 children) | Copy

He didn't even read the order. The cop told him what was going on, and he called his wife to ask "What the fuck is going on?!"

The cop didn't have to arrest him. Any reasonable cop would say "Hey man, you can't be calling her, it's in the order."

But my guess is she told the Police he was a wife beater, or a child rapist, or an ISIS apologist. Who the fuck knows.

The point is the system assumes YOU are scum. Brilliant men making massive impact for good in the world are regularly dragged through the legal system and robbed of everything they have by useless Gashes.

It's a social travesty.

This guy is probably considering eating a fucking shotgun, and I don't know what anybody can tell him to talk him out of it.

Better men than him have told the world to get fucked rather than play the game.

[–]lakalahehe14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy

He should leave the country. I would never accept that shit being done to me. It's mentally enslaved.

If he has real skills besides a reputation, he can regain elsewhere.

[–]psychyness26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy

I'd leave the country solely because there is no fucking way I'd be giving money to a person who did that to me. I'd rather be poor in Mexico or Canada knowing she doesn't get a dime out of me, over being poor in America knowing she's living a happy easy life off of me.

Fuck that. Karma is a bitch, and if you fuck with me be prepared to lose.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah me too. I guess there'd just be something way too humiliating about being fucked in the ass 24/7 by the American government to tolerate it. I wouldn't want half my paycheck to get split between the psycho cunt and the government. I'd probably get the fuck out of the country before the first alimony bill arrived in the mail.

He could probably go to Mexico or the Philippines or somewhere like that. Probably wouldn't earn anywhere near as much, and the standard of living would be lower, but at least his ass would be free of the government's dick. Plus if he did remarry and started another family, he might be statistically less likely to get such a cunt of a wife (of course AWALT, but it takes a special kind of psycho to do what his wife did).

But this guy has kids, which obviously makes the choice a lot harder. If he leaves the country, his kids will lose a lot of financial support, and will be stuck being raised by a crazy bitch.

Best thing for him to do is to invest in a good lawyer, and get the most out of it he can. Maybe cancel his wife's credit cards and move his money to a separate bank account, so she can't afford as good a lawyer (then again, I'm not sure what a judge would think of that, I'm not an expert here). It's possible if the judge sees what's going on and/or his lawyer's good enough he could get the kids from the bitch. But if not, it's a tough choice what to do. System is all fucked up.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

He would have to be a slave. He would only see his children under supervised visitation (if at all) all while the mom spits poison about him in their ears so they grow hating a fictitious account of him their whole life. He should leave. The fact the kids wills suffer is not his fault. Be a slave and fucked in the ass by the government and be her bitch, or never see his kids. It's her sin and her sin alone. He can send anonymous money to them from overseas.

[–]LoveYourSelfish1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For the blue pill male, this all comes with the added luxury of your wife showing zero remorse about the situation she put you in, and happily getting filled up by strange D(people who will also see your kids more than you get to). Perhaps you'll find out this is why she served you with divorce papers, which we can only hope will be a rude awakening to the true nature of things.

It is a depressing time bomb for the poor fellow. Without TRP it is likely the man just won't understand what the fuck is going on, or why!

[–]truthyego0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Even more reason for TRP men to get some of their wealth into crypto (bitcoin). They can't take what they don't know or can't prove you have

[–]lakalahehe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

a special kind of psycho

Awalt? don't all wifes have the ''Lights off'' ability (where all past emotions and hsitory don't matter and are distorted/reversed).

Matches in intensity with one characteristic of sociopaths and psychopaths.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ahh fuck!! We built the wall too high now!!! Shit! But jokes aside how the hell do you even get access to your funds if you really do decide to escape from that shit? What a terrible thing to do to someone who didn't deserve that. You can't just part ways, you have to fuck them in the ass too, way to go crazy lady. But the kids grow up with the psycho, that's just as worse!

[–]truthyego0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bitcoin and other crypto currencies, that's how.

And always keep a nice fat stack of cash stashed somewhere private

[–]ColdEiric3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy


But it is also separating the men from the slaves. And the wives from the feminists.

Men with minds, men who have men's backs, men who help men, men who subscribe to 'bros before hos', men with love in their hearts for the brothers and sons, men who understand the price of masculine brotherhood and love, men who are men will survive this.

Wives and sisters and mothers, women who want to have families and friends and acquaintances, women with love in their hearts, women who honor their fathers, women who mourn and miss their men and boys will understand what 'until death do us part' means, women are grateful and feminine towards men who carry their heavy weights, they will survive. Only the women who earn the company of good men, the respectful attention from men to a proper lady, only they will live.

White knights and feminists who will throw their closest to themselves under the bus for a piece of bread or a fleeting moment in the spotlight, they will not understand why they starve slowly but surely. The stupid and the foolish and the cold and the heartless and the greedy and the profane and the ungrateful and the irreverent, they will all starve and die.

The disloyal will not survive this. But we will, because we will pay the price of life.

[–]NeoreactionSafe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Heck... if it was a female cop I'd think:

"Okay, let's turn on the music and get this stripper show started."

...the guy was likely in complete disbelief.


[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]PanzerBatallion11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

Don't forget that everything you read here is one perspective, and there's always 3 in every story.

There's his side, her side, and the truth. And as much as men like to think we know the truth, we also have a way of conveniently leaving out details that make us look like shit.

[–]dimmy6668 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Don't know why you're being downvoted for telling the truth.

No one is immune to bias, and we redpillers certainly are not as well.

[–]PanzerBatallion5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's a narrative in every sub, and if you go against said narrative, the hive mind will just downvote anything they don't agree with.

It's unfortunate to have a global website where everything just devolves into "you disagree with me, so your comment disappears below a visible threshold." The only way to expand your world view is to engage and interact with people who have differing opinions than you. Of all people, those interested in a "red pill"/"Blue pill" dynamic should be keenly aware of this fact. No one would be here if it wasn't for a disagreement about what you are taught to believe men are supposed to do.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

He needs to get off his ass and GET A LAWYER IMMEDIATELY. Sounds like he makes good money, so he should be able to afford a good one (assuming his wife hasn't drained his bank account or something crazy like that). Clearly, this bitch has no moral compass, and will stop at nothing to get everything she possibly can from him.

If he lawyers up and does his homework, he might be able to keep his kids (especially if the judge realizes what the bitch did). Otherwise, he's in a bad spot (stay and get raped by the government, or leave the country and abandon his kids to a psycho cunt).

To be fair, not getting married would only have marginally helped. If they'd just been cohabitating with kids, she could have pulled the exact same shit with pretty much the same results. (Except he wouldn't get slapped with alimony, and he wouldn't lose the house if it belonged to him).

The system is just fucked up. I swear if I ever have kids I'm moving to Thailand or something. Even if I land myself a unicorn in the US, I wouldn't want this shit to possibly happen to my kids either after they grow up. Plus who knows how bad it'll be in 20-30 years?

(Also, that cop is a fucking asshole - he could have just fucking said "no you're not allowed to call your wife" while he pulled out his phone, rather than arresting him after the fact).

[–]alecesne1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What makes you think a Thai wife would be any better? Or are you stating that you prefer the Thai legal system?

Yes, the dude's being screwed by a restraining order, but you lawyer up, do the court battle, and then restructure your life to try and protect your future financial interests.

Try and stipulate that rather than pay monthly alimony, you pay anything beyond a certain amount into a 529 college fund for the children or form a trust. And fight for custody! Fight for custody!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I almost want proof - that is so out of the blue and so outrageous...

[–]my_sfw_alias1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like the metaphor. He will indeed becoming out of the blue.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Whilst this is fucked up I always want to see what the girl is like. I wonder if I can tell if that girl is fucking psycho from a picture alone. But maybe some dudes can't tell when they are with them and fall in love hard or some shit. Poor guy though, wtf is he supposed to do now? Is this where you take all your savings and go live in thailand? Fuck, every time I hear about shit like this it just reinforces my notion to never get fucking married! I do have one question though, I mean I'm in my early 20's, but do women once they are in a deep and loving relationship, do they feel hurt if a guy doesn't fucking ever ask to get married? Obviously I don't give a fuck but is there anyone how has dealt with just not marrying at all and is still having fun in their long term relationship?

[–]StraightGlueWater2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Savings? Haha, as if.

This was the stereotypical young American family- lived way above their means, horribly in debt with nothing in savings. Emergency fund? That's what my 14.99% APR credit card is for, duh.

Also, his wife is always posting photos on Facebook where she is absolutely CAKED in makeup. I mean, clown levels of makeup.

I would share, but we're not identifying people here.

but do women once they are in a deep and loving relationship, do they feel hurt if a guy doesn't fucking ever ask to get married?

Most women that you would want to be in such a relationship- yes. Is it hurt they feel? I can't say. Surely they feel frustrated because most women in mainstream culture see marriage as a status symbol. It's a symbol of achievement. Most people look at a 40 year old woman who never married as basically being a failure, right?

I mean, even female CEO's and politicians recognize that being married is a requirement for being taken seriously. Otherwise it becomes "What's wrong with her that she could never secure a man?" (cough Jennifer Aniston cough).

So maybe it's that.

Or maybe they're hurt because of an insecurity that is exacerbated by no men offering them a commitment.

I can say I've seen many more women pressuring their male SO's into marriage to meet the social standard than I've seen women just wanting a love-based commitment.

is there anyone how has dealt with just not marrying at all and is still having fun in their long term relationship?

There are some guys around here who are in LTR's that refuse marriage. Some of us are pretty young and our future remains to be seen.

From what I've seen, and my experiences in a pretty diverse group of women- there are a very few women I have met who think marriage isn't 100% necessary to having children. Most women are baffled and offended to even discuss the idea of being in a committed LTR without marriage.

My last LTR and I more or less broke up over the issue. She was pressuring me to get serious, and I told her I'm as serious as I'm going to get.

Ideally you meet a woman who is.. pliable enough, or open-minded enough to put the fears and insecurities of being an unwed woman behind, and you can be inspiring enough of a mate to inspire her confidence in you.

Even still- there are plenty of couples I have known where a guy told a girl that marriage wasn't on the table for many, many years. Almost all of them the girl was initially perfectly fine with. Almost all of them the girl eventually dumped the guy for an orbiter who was offering commitment.

Maybe some of the senior members have better info on that.

[–]truthyego0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's a similar hurt as if your girl cheated on you, but it's more so based on selfishness and entitlement. Whereas cheating is basically a withdraw something that was dedicated to you, refusal to propose is different in that she is upset at her inability to extract asymmetric value from you.

It's like the hurt a con artists would feel if they were having a run of bad luck in being able to convince people of their cons.

It's best to drop nuggets here and there about how you will never marry, even if u did knock a girl up. If she confronts u directly in LTR, be straight up that u will never marry her. Hurt her feelings. Enjoy watching her little hamster get upset that it's con isn't going to work on you.

It's likely to make her try even harder, which is a good short term benefit, that can even translate into good long term habits. And if not, fuckit, not worth ur time anyways.

[–]maxbrooksmacbook0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A shovel and a hole in the woods is the recourse

[–]Il128 22 points22 points [recovered] | Copy

She's not yours, it's just your turn.

[–]iLLprincipLeS 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

A wife is made. Problem comes when the majority of women by the time they hit 18, are already too broken to be made anything out of. She's not yours, she's not worthy of being yours. She's just a plate who will have the honor to be tasted by you. And then by other, and another, until there is nothing left but her empty eyes with the 1000 cock stare.

[–]Areu4realm86 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

a wife is made, because being a wife is completly unnatural. im shocked how many redpill men want stepford robotic women. That ideal woman is not human. how can you be attracted to something constructed. is it so scary to go enjoy women as they are , with their flaws, instead of creating mommy no2 who makes men feel secure.>?

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[–]iLLprincipLeS 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Truth can never really hurt you. Wahrheit macht frei.

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[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy

All of you, start reading

This is what they dont tell you, the legal side, what marriage really is.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan50 points51 points  (48 children) | Copy

Excellent, at the end of the day it's a man's choice what he does with his life, we shouldn't disown men who are married because if anything they need our support more than anyone. LTRs are hard mode, whereas marriage is suicide mode, because your ability to affect dread is vastly handicapped by the draconian legislation that is the feminist family courts.

We wouldn't be a very good community for men if we did not warn against the pitfalls of marriage, or make men aware of the women who will try to bully, shame and guilt them into commitment. On that note, I'm reminded of a quote from a commenter from awhile back that stuck with me ever since: "Marriage is responsibility for men and a lifestyle for women"

And as much as I think it is good to support men no matter what they decide, I wish to violently decimate the hamster that plagues married blue and purple pill men.

An open letter to the aforementioned:

Do not think because you are married you are superior to "all those young'uns on TRP" you're not, in fact you're an example of what they should aspire not to become - a blue piller who found the red pill too late. A man who found TRP after wifing up an unworthy woman undeserving of the sacrifice inherent to a lifetime of male commitment.

It's good that we're reaching a lot of young guys on TRP, because we can give them the power to choose what to do with their lives. We have got to them before they can fuck it up for themselves like you have. Do not drag them into your misery. Do not encourage them to fuck up like you and call it maturity and manning up, that is disingenuous, and it robs young men of their future simply to validate your piss poor decision making.

If the young men here want to get married one day, they can do that with full knowledge of the basket case of an institution that they're entering - that's their call. If they want a kid and no marriage, to be a bachelor or even to go MGTOW - this is likewise their call.

TRP doesn't recommend marriage, but it is not our place to MANDATE how people live their lives. We may disagree vehemently, we may advise a man against such a thing, but if he insists on fucking it up for himself then fuck it up he will, and I hope he fucks it up majestically, I hope he enjoys it whilst it lasts and that the pain that will inevitably ensue from his daring naivety is worth all the brief and fleeting joy that will be replaced by the misery of divorce.

A lot of the suckers who were hauled into marriage in their BP days would have a total redo given the chance. That is to say, if they had their level of RP knowledge now and a time machine, they wouldn't be on the internet making the best of a shit situation trying to polish a turd, but rather, they'd be living life on their terms.

They'd have better vetted the bitch they settled down with. They would of done an LTR but not married. They would have gone their own way. They would be bachelor's banging hot bitches Hank Moody style; they would have done shit differently given the gift of hindsight.

But married men don't have that chance, do they? They are trapped. They are trapped in a situation I would not wish on any man, they are trapped in marriage 2.0 - feminist marriage. They are in damage control mode, doing what they can to preserve the best of an inherently corrupt institution, and they tell themselves that they are the real men, they are the noble men, that they are the men who hold up civilization on their backs arched like Atlas, because it is they who "manned up" - when really they are nothing but fools who learned the truth too late and so do what they can to make their misery tolerable.

Sure they hold up civilization, but not from a place of pride or strength, but shackled by feminist legislation from a place of weakness, kept in check by their wife's authority as mandated by the state, subsisting on nothing but a small sense of pride that "they're the real men". That's their mantra, that's what they tell themselves to cope with their relative powerlessness in their house. "I'm a real man, I did the right thing" when "the right thing" has made them miserable.

They hold the piece of shit called marriage in their hand, and they try to shine it as nice as possible. They do it because they don't want to live out of their car. They do it so they don't lose their kids. Know that they do it completely from a place of weakness. They have no other choice, because lacking the gift of red pill knowledge before they committed to such an inequitable contract, they are trapped. And making the best of a bad situation is all they've got so they have to make it work. It's like being a Jew in a gas chamber and discussing breathing techniques to make what little life you have left bearable - this is how I see these men.

A downtrodden man, a hurt man, a man with much to lose and little freedom. Not a powerful man, not a free man, and not a particularly wise one. I chuckle when such a man thinks himself better than those "immature young men who know no better," for this is truly nought but an old fool assuaging the pain that haunts him. It is the tonic of unsubstantiated pride vindicating an old fool for his mistakes at the expense of his brethren wise enough not to follow him.

Modern marriage is not clever, it is quite frankly foolish given the current climate. Any reasonable man will tell you this, but the hyper-religious will try and persuade and shame you into going the traditional route absent the breed of woman and complementing legal system that accompanied it and made it viable. They cut and paste a 1950's social model whilst completely ignoring the fact there's no 1950's legal system to accompany it. They are out of touch, and they call those who don't buy into their delusion immature.

Truth be told, you didn't man up, you were duped. You were fooled into doing something that disadvantages you by linking your pride to sacrifice, and now you think you're mature for having engaged in such a terrible act of folly.

TRP is about giving men power, giving them options and letting them decide how to live for themselves. Not indoctrinating them into a tradcon narrative of "real men sacrifice themselves for women and children" - many of whom which will never appreciate a single drop of sweat or blood you have shed in the quest to "be a real man".

Women of all shades of pill will buy into your sense of honour because it serves them to do so, but they do not care for you, they are not your allies - they are just looking out for themselves. And you are so downtrodden, exploited and foolish, that rather than listen to the free men, you develop Stockholm syndrome for those who would force you to live out of your car should you put a ring on it whilst being imperfect. Open your eyes.

[–]RedSugarPill14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

Is it bad that I read this with a British accent? (..enjoyed the podcast) I am eagerly awaiting the "Divorced Red Pill", "Red Pill Alimony", and "Debtor's Prison" flairs.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not at all, in fact going by the feedback I've had I think everyone's reading my shit in my accent now. Pretty fucking hilarious actually. Those flairs sound.. yeah.. fuck that!

[–]vetiarvind2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nope, I usually do read with the accents of the writer's native language, but for some reason your writing resonates with me to the degree that I actually read it in my own voice.

[–]TRP Vanguardss_camaro1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How' bout a straight up 'Prison' flair?

We could read the latest about 'bitches', 'lifers', 'doing time', 'solitary vs. yard', etc. etc.


[–]TheSupr3m3Justic3 14 points14 points [recovered] | Copy

And this is why marriage should be discussed and not just pushed to the side.

Most men that find this sub out of desperation, I'm willing to bet, are already married.

As a married man you got 2 options, shit or get off the pot. You either get yourself above her SMV and you take your marriage back by the balls, or you GTFO. There is no middle ground. You can not let the women control the marriage, at any point. And this is always going to be an uphill battle in a life long war.

Ask me how I know.

[–]TRP VanguardYouDislikeMyOpinion1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The other option is to cheat. For some men, cheating is better than the alternatives.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are absolutely situations when a man's commitment to be faithful goes out the window. TRP tools help men achieve their own happiness first.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy

Any reasonable man will tell you this, but the hyper-religious will try and persuade and shame you into going the traditional route absent the breed of woman and complementing legal system that accompanied it and made it viable.... They are out of touch, and they call those who don't buy into their delusion immature.

It's more fundamental than being out of touch. You're dealing with the type of person who believes in God to the extent that they practice rituals with no logical foundation. They believe in an entity and a system that can't be perceived in human terms.

For a person like that, well, believing in marriage isn't a stretch by any means.

TRP is about giving men power, giving them options and letting them decide how to live for themselves. Not indoctrinating them into a tradcon narrative of "real men sacrifice themselves for women and children"

For the religious man this becomes a fight against indoctrination to the narrative of bending your happiness and well being to God's will.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

I don't mock you. I want to be like you.

In fact, let me open up to you a little bit. I'm religious too. Orthodox Judaism. I am sexually conservative, observe the Sabbath and keep kosher. Why am I angry? Because despite everything I do, it's never good enough. The fact that I played in Carnegie Hall when I was 16 years old wasn't good enough for my father. The fact that I published a paper helping design a missile defense system for Northrop Grumman in my undergrad wasn't good enough for my family. The fact that I worked for NASA wasn't good enough for my Rabbi. All that matters to the people in my life is that I act like mensch and get up for shul in the morning, despite how tired I am. It doesn't matter to them that I walk around during the day literally starving because I can't buy myself a hamburger from the school cafe.

Here in TRP we talk about holding frame and doing it all for yourself. But it's really, really hard to have that attitude when your friends and family tell you that you shouldn't put yourself first because the big guy upstairs is more important.

And you know what I hate the most? The fact that I am a coward. I don't have the courage to stand up to my family and to everyone I know to demonstrate how I really feel. Ultimately it comes down to the reality that I do believe in God. I just can't come to terms that I have to live the rest of my life putting my religion before my happiness. It's unfortunate, because I imagine that religion is supposed to compliment one's life and help them, not burden them. I don't mock you. I'm jealous of you.

At least all this shit helps me in the gym. Every time I get under the bar to squat I deliberately work myself up, get pissed off and bust out five reps. Hasn't failed me yet.


[–]TRP VanguardWhisper1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I do not think you are a coward.

They got to you when you were a child. It's fucking hard to shake that shit off, and to do so spontaneously on your own... nah.

Look, you need to realize that you have lived all your life in a high caliber brainwashing machine. They have deliberately primed you to be hyper-susceptible to guilt. The red pill isn't some new way for you to feel guilty. It's about living for you, and apologizing to no one. Not your parents, not some freak in a stupid hat and beard, not /u/chimneytop, and not me.

Yeah, we have different definitions of success right now. Yours is getting out from under all that shit. It's gonna take years. Accept that. It's worth the trip.

If the big guy upstairs is so sensitive that he cries if you have a cheeseburger, fuck him.

You are not born a slave. You are born a free man. Don't worship any god who wants slaves instead of free men.

(Tag team, /u/humansockpuppet. Help a young brother out.)

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]TRP VanguardWhisper0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

To be reductive, I was not born a slave to Christ.

Well, you weren't born a slave to the giant pink teapot orbiting Pluto, either. It's not gods who make people slaves. Gods are silent due to existence failure.

It's the people in funny robes and hats to claim to speak for those oh-so-very-silent gods. If you're not obeying one of these weirdos or their silly rules, then religion is nothing but an extremely minor neurosis, and doesn't really cause any noticeable damage.

In effect, the measure of a false belief is not the content of the false belief, but the actions it makes you perform.

Let's suppose you believe purple things are alive.

  • If you pat purple things and say hello, that's a minor eccentricity.
  • If you won't discuss private matters with purple things in the room, that's somewhat limiting.
  • If you picket the capitol building demanding civil rights for purple things, you are significantly mentally ill.
  • And if you attack purple things on sight, you are unable to function in society.

So, the important question is not what you believe, but what you do about that belief. The measure of how enslaved a man is, is what he is compelled to do.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

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[–]TRP VanguardWhisper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing, really. The red pill can't give you a goal or a sense of purpose. It's just a set of tools for doing things.

What your purpose is, that has to come from somewhere else. For you, it's apparently religion. That's cool. But for /u/FieldLine, religion is not that... it's an externally imposed burden. Different sorta thing.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I got you, bro. I'll PM him.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

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[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I've read Ecclesiastes many times. I've even quoted it in sermons that I've delivered in my synagogue.

Let's talk about King Solomon, the author. Here's a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He was raised in a palace and had God's ear. In fact, it says in Kings that God loved Solomon. And what does Solomon say? הכל הבל - all is futile. Easy to say when you've never have to work for anything. The man had 1,000 wives and was able to afford any luxury he could conceive of, and he says הכל הבל. He needs to get off his high horse, he indulged more than anyone in history. This is the man God loves. You explain it to me.

At least talk about David, he was a fugitive his whole life running away from his maniac of a father-in-law, Saul, yet he still opened his mouth to sing the praises of God in Psalms.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

We have got to them before they can fuck it up for themselves like you have.

They need to open their eyes. And I've heard this term before in religion as well. But here it's different. TRP is looking at reality; the legal system, hypergamy, covert behaviours. Religion and feminism says to ignore that noise. TRP says listen, learn.

I hope he fucks it up majestically.

Oh yea, that I have. But those of us that have, are not dead. We are behind an 8 ball; with struggles, trials, and tribulations which are infuriating and defeating. However, we also provide news from the inside. Tell you how it is to help those that have yet to make that decision, or help those that realized far too late. We are not alone and collectively can awaken to bring a change for the better to those that take the journey.

A lot of the suckers who were hauled into marriage in their BP days would have a total redo given the chance.

Total. Absolutely.

They'd have better vetted the bitch they settled down with.

Vetted and with extreme predjudice

Truth be told, you didn't man up, you were duped.

Know the rules before you play. The deck is stacked against you.

TRP is about giving men power

And knowledge.

Open your eyes.

And your mind, before you fuck it all up.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some of what gets forgotten here is how many women in fact are not aware how much the law favors them.

[–]Persaeus3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women of all shades of pill will buy into your sense of honor because it serves them to do so, but they do not care for you, they are not your allies - they are just looking out for themselves.


Excellent post, but it and this entire thread ignore the woman's agency as it interacts with a father’s agency. Given that as a man you want children (the ONLY reason to consider marriage) and therefore a long term relationship with the mother of the children, the quality of the woman is paramount. Obviously, the man needs to sufficiently mature and RP in outlook to assess the quality of the woman. However, a high quality woman is also vetting the man and relationship. The vast majority of woman high enough in quality to even consider having kids with are not going into a child-rearing relationship without being married. Since it is said here (correctly) that marriage favors the woman, it stands to reason that a high quality woman would not enter a relationship that disfavors her. If your argument is just be alpha enough to bypass AWALT, I have some unicorns to sell.


So IMO, assuming you want to have children the mission is VETTING, VETTING, and some more VETTING. If you can’t get a woman that passes all the vetting, you are likely not a high enough quality man and should not entertain the idea of getting married because you will likely get fucked.


PSA, if you’re in the USA one of the vets is the woman needs to earn as much as the man. It is a sad state of affairs; but I have had to repeatedly tell my wife that should she stop working I will have to leave her. We put our guns down at the same time, or I start shooting.


Looking forward to the rebuttal.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I agree with your post's reasoning, but probably wouldn't make the same choices, that you have/would.

This part here:

The vast majority of woman high enough in quality to even consider having kids with are not going into a child-rearing relationship without being married. Since it is said here (correctly) that marriage favors the woman, it stands to reason that a high quality woman would not enter a relationship that disfavors her.

If a high quality woman's going to force a false dichotomy on me "marry me or lose the pre-existing relationship" then I'd let her go. I won't be gamed like that. When you're educated in the game of power, you can see that for what it is. I won't be manipulated into acting outside of my interests and a woman pulling this sort of move is only making me like her less. This is not about me impressing her, it's about her impressing me. If she believes the case to be the reverse, I do not believe there is a future for either of us.

Marriage is so disadvantageous that regardless of the quality of the product it's a deal breaker (for me). If the lack of marriage is a deal breaker for her, then we part ways. A man should not compromise on his principles in this regard, she's not compromising on hers (because it benefits her) and so you definitely shouldn't on yours (because it benefits you).

If she won't compromise on her principles, that tells me I'm not worth compromising for (in her view) and in that case, we are not meant to continue being together. After all, women enforce rules on providers and violate them for alphas. If she's enforcing shit on me, that's definitely not a good sign - it's another sign we shouldn't be together.

I do not apply the reverse logic to myself (that if she was good enough, I'd compromise my principles for her) because the legal system is not designed to fuck her, it's designed to fuck me. She wants an abandonment safety net that supposedly exists to stop me from just walking out on her, which in reality does nothing but empower her to walk out on me. If she desired/wanted/respected me enough, she would respect the existential threat this represents to me and wouldn't want the legal leverage to fuck me should it suit her.

My powertalk argument: "if you really loved me, you wouldn't want the power to destroy me, and the fact you insist on this compels me to believe you're not the one."

I will always be far more willing to lose a woman than lose my freedom. If this means no LTR with what one considers a high quality woman, so be it.

[–]Persaeus3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I cannot argue with your well reasoned position, other than to point out that:

A man should not compromise on his principles in this regard, she's not compromising on hers (because it benefits her) and so you definitely shouldn't on yours (because it benefits you). a mexican standoff. However, I admire your principled approach as I often fall short in this regard being a more ends justify the means type of person.

Prior to discovering the RP, I use to answer the rhetorical question what would you do different in the past with "I would have been a surgeon rather than an engineer". Honestly, at this point my answer would be find RP at age 20.....and still get married. But I vetted very well, and am lover of risk taking.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's all good. I understand your standpoint and you mine, we've just made different choices. Nothing wrong with that at all. I hope your marriage proves fruitful. All the best.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

This is why the conversation needs to be had here. The oldest and wisest of TRP need to weigh in and their voice was not present in the splinters

[–]reigorius1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

But Rollo Tomassi posts on both subs. Confused.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Rollo is married w/ a 16 yo daughter.

[–]PanzerBatallion3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Isn't that kinda like finding out Jesus was Hindu?

[–]balajig81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be a separate post IL Man...Excellent stuff.

[–]Luckyluke234 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

this is a good idea. though, i feel as if it's going to get into a shit show of, " doing get married" posts.

but what happens if you found the red pill after? what happens if you WANT to have kids some day? what happens if you do want to get married.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

what happens if you do want to get married.

I recommend a lobotomy

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

Follow along with the MRP flaired posts. I'm in a LTR and I'm planning a family. I'm just not signing a marriage contract.

[–]Il1285 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Common law. You'll learn so much about the time your youngest child enters first grade.

Try and adapt ASAP to being a father 4 days a month.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Common law doesn't exist in many (most) states.

[–]Il1280 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok man. I can't see flairs on mobile so I'll just have to guess which posts not to comment on.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't think the leader of TRP needs advice on how to conduct his sexual relations.

[–]Il1281 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He asks for advice all the time.

He doesn't need his ass kissed. You know, he's probably got most of his shit together. He's just making this one mistake.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Some of us did get married and have kids years before TRP was an option or even known or discussed.

All the anti marriage shit makes me wonder what kind of slags guys here have married. If you scrape the bottom of the barrel, don't be surprised it doesn't work out.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think most of the anti-marriage narrative centers around the legal leverage that women have over men, not necessarily the women themselves.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon36 points37 points  (42 children) | Copy

Great plan... MRP sucks, so this is a good way to incorporate it here.

I wonder if the flair should look like a happy bride next to a man crying.


Do Not Marry

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (18 children) | Copy

Oh? How so? Aside from the tfa post... Which laid out the risks clearer than I've seen elsewhere btw... At least with the same comprehensiveness

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy

Have you read some of the MRP posts? They're cringeworthy, and these guys basically have no way out. And the women clearly know it, and don't give a fuck.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read all them. There's two types. The ones that last own their failures, and crawl out of shawshanks shit pipe.

Then the others, of which get murdered, and the carcass displayed as a cautionary tale.

The teenage virgin here starts from 0. The poor bastard who found mrp too late starts at -10, got past the anger and building themselves back to having options.

I guarantee the newbie poster there, on average, puts in more work than the average new trp member... They have to.

Oh, and the wives eventually turn around. Once the guys ready for plates, and ready to drop divorce papers, after doing his legal preparation. Once that happens, they tend to post more on theory than putting their vulnerabilities online anymore

If you don't see the benefit, or the value in the good posts, than I don't know what to tell you.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy

MRP wasn't disavowed because the posters were cringeworthy. The issue was much of the advice they received from some members was awful. Women, bluepillers, and bucket crabbing married men all are prominent

[–]RealGucciSosa2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

In addition to redpillschool being banned from there once. How do you take a name and then ban one of the two guys who started it all? Same with RedPillWives, its like they openly state they rather be plugged-in (and do it their way) yet they want to use the "red pill" moniker, which loses all meaning if you're not willing to hear the counterarguments.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

I have no idea what you are talking about BUT I will say that TRP is not a debate sub looking for counterarguments

[–]RealGucciSosa1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

  1. redpillschool took over the torch of TRP from another brother. He didn't found it.
  2. redpillschool was once banned from RPM, you can ask him yourself.
  3. RedPillWomen recently had a revamp, and the old mods founded RPWives. RPS wanted more debate including the topic of plates & GFs, while the old RPW mods were deleting and banning anything going against their preferred ideals (marriage). "red pill" is being unplugged, which means hearing multiple angles and coming to a logical conclusion, not living in a BP hamster-wheel.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

This is a pretty accurate breakdown of events. I was originally very skeptical of MRP because they saw fit to ban me when I brought forward quality red pill info.

Even now there are a number of prominent contributors and mods on MRP who are openly anti-TRP (they refer to this sub as full of boys, teenagers, or anyhting else they can use to shame), and they're very openly anti-me. You don't have to like me, but I can't imagine why somebody would take a public stand against me unless they had an ax to grind.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Many of the MRP regulars are solid guys with good experience helping men unplug. BUT..they are willfully running a sub that not only allows but encourages trolling. They piss on TRP as immature and wonder why the parent group wants to distance itself. Much of the advice is decidedly purple and in conflict with TRP tenets. Rollo has warned what could happen as The Red Pill moniker is utilised to further goals other than ours

I wish them well and encourage those men to post here if they want. Thanks to Feminism, there is no shortage of weak married men needing help. If they want to do it another way, so be it. But make no mistake, its not Redpill

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Are you an alt, by the way? Just asking because you were endorsed at 10 days (when I noticed, anyway). I'm just wondering who I might be talking to.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Ah, you beat me to this question... I'd like to hear legitimate responses...if they think they can come up with any... (Did you see what I did there? Shhh...I'm baiting any weak willed egos with a subtle dig to get them to try and prove their mettle. Like how WMP calls people "fucking faggots". It's JUST like that. Now let's see what they say.) Man, while we wait let's have some sex. Not with each other though. With females.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Man, I'm tired as fuck, 5 more hours of flying. How are you still stringing sentences together?

[–]sexyshoulderdevil1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I thought I told you... I'm actually a moonshot program developed by a Google subsidiary. I'm an AI (Artificial Intelligence) designed to assimilate masculine language to formulate a working conversational lexicon that will eventually be fully incorporated into a larger more complete MALE AI with the code name "Broden". In short, my neural networks do not require "sleep" as you experience it. However for a period of 52 minutes per day I am taken offline to compile my current lexicon iteration into the latest functional dev version of "Broden."

(Edit: Ok ok... I just don't sleep much. Then it hits me by the weekend and I sleep like a teenager. The wife and kiddo head and do shit and I sleep like a MRP baby until 10am.)

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Haha, it was supposed to be two rings... but I do like the secondary meaning.

[–]NeoreactionSafe15 points16 points  (18 children) | Copy

Child Support Laws (1950) are 90% of the damage that was done to us.

Marriage itself adds Alimony and Spousal Support.

Don't forget that you can become a Slave for 18 years without being married or even knowing much about the slut you got pregnant.


[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

Agreed on child support laws.... but realistically this is an inescapable risk if you have children in the west. Marriage is optional.

[–]NeoreactionSafe10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy

My point is that you get people who focus too much on the marriage contract.

Just because you don't marry doesn't exclude you from Child Support:

18 years @ $750 month for 12 months = $162,000

...and that's moderately priced.

A higher income guy can be given a higher figure and it's up to the whim of a judge.

False Wisdom : The guy that avoids marriage but gets some low quality slut pregnant.


[–]2Overkillengine4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

True. In fact, many men have let a woman use the threat of Child Support to coerce them into marriage (doubling down on a mistake!).

Which is why men should wrap it and have a secret vasectomy. The only way to guarantee something won't be a problem is to not allow it to be a possibility.

[–]bornredd0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

And what of those who want kids?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

there's no good answer for that.

As a married RP-er with a kid, the fatherhood is an absolute dream. She looks at me like I invented time itself. The marriage however is typical. Since I found RP 3 months ago, I've been working in the gym and working on frame with small results. Little sex, lots of bitchiness. After the wedding she turned from "submissively enamored with me" to "dry bossy cunt" within 4 months. And it happens to almost everybody. I'm a hung, charming, millionaire in my 20's and not immune. I slept around in college without too much trouble... but having beta behavior post-marriage, those great attributes do me 0 favors now. Desperately trying all other options before divorce. I want to be in my daughter's life and I want to avoid taking it up the ass from the long dick of the US family court system.

Amorally speaking (this is TRP, after all), how do you get to parent your own child without the anchor? Adopt? Surrogate? Marry someone with a terminal illness that won't affect the child? Get someone pregnant in a 3rd world country and convince her the child will have a better life with you in the US? None of these are great options. What I would give for the ability to walk away from her without losing so very much.

[–]bornredd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree, but I'm a happily married MRPer - the kids are a dream, and a wife that jumps my bones twice a day is the way to be.

1 year in - life is grand.

[–]Senior Contributoradam-l4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Indeed. In some countries Alimony and Spousal Support are practically inexistent, but getting divorced is still a rape because of Child Support and Parental Alienation. Women, due to their convenient lack of a sense of honor, often use their children as hostages.

That's why fighting for Shared Parenting laws is important. The two crucial parameters are the right to spend equal time with your children, and forbidding the abduction of the children by their mother to another city.

Shared Parenting laws would curb the current power differential of women over men by at least half.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I argued this in the comments section of a national newspaper (before they basically shut down comments because too many people were anti-feminist in their views, which needs to be hidden from the masses, of course). To make marriage viable again, and thus get the birth rate back up to at least replacement levels, would need

1) No alimony. There is absolutely no reason for a man to support a woman who is not his wife - especially when it was her idea not to be. The excuse that she was not working is just that. first, since the great majority of divorces are instigated by women, she had all the forewarning she needed to find a job to support herself. Second, unemployed unrelated people are not the concern of individual men. There should be no need for a 'pre-nup', whatever each partner had before the marriage reverts to them on the end of the marriage. Goods and resources accumulated during a marriage are apportioned to however did the work to acquire them. And no, being a housewife does not mean you did 50% of the work, you would have to do that anyway just to live, and you got paid for doing it (who paid for the woman's clothes, holidays, food, etc, if she was working at home?). If she was working, then divided by relative proportions of income.

2) No no-fault divorce after children. Children need two parents; single-mother households are a proven disaster area and society needs to discourage them.

3) If there is a divorce after children, unless it is proven (not just the ex-wife's say-so) that the man was abusive, the children spend 50% of their time with each parent.

4) A corollary of #3 is that there is no child support. Each parent pays the costs when the child is with them. If a parent does not earn enough to pay the costs of child-rearing, the one that can spends most of the time with them (but the othe parent should still have access).

5) A man has the same rights about whether to accept a parenting role as the woman. Since a woman has the option to have an abortion, or give the child up for adoption with no legal or financial consequences, the man has the same right to forgo fatherhood.

Since these conditions don't exist, marriage and children are out, and so is society as a whole.

[–]BoyWhoreWithASword0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Oh really? Vasectomies prove otherwise.

[–]NeoreactionSafe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, it's easy to just avoid everything and take your sperm out of the Game.


[–]malariasucks-2 points-1 points  (7 children) | Copy

I have a former co-worker who got pregnant and they thought they were going to be married. turns out the guy is just a deadbeat dad. Trust me, she's on such a higher level than him.

dude has paid one month of child support in 2 years and wants to fight for less.

[–]NeoreactionSafe3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

If she wanted the Child Support all she needs to do is call the police and they will arrest him.

She obviously must keep him as her Chad Thundercock.


[–]malariasucks-3 points-2 points  (5 children) | Copy

nah, it's not like that at all. he volunteered to deploy, so she's stuck doing 100% of the child rearing. it's pathetic on his part.

[–]NeoreactionSafe1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'll bet she is butt ugly.

When a woman is so low SMV that she accepts a guy like that it means she has few options.

Either that or he's her Chad Thundercock... her "boytoy" and so that's his purpose.


[–]malariasucks0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

it's actually the opposite. She's ridiculously pretty, was a model before she got pregnant and was internationally known before this happen. I wouldnt say anymore so as to not dox her, but I was surprised when I saw the guy because she's out of his league.

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

There must be something about her own sudden decline in SMV that has messed with her head.

Sounds like she went from high highs, to low lows.

I'd be surprised if it lasts very long... but you never know.

Sometimes an attractive woman has seriously screwed up thought patterns and she actually belongs with a similiar person on the male side.

Red Pill is mostly about being 100% mentally strong both in the masculine and feminine polarity. (Red Pill Woman teaching the feminine craft)

Sometimes losers pick losers.


[–]malariasucks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

well she's not a loser but I've seen her pick a few that were below her league. On the other hand, she's a very genuine person and isn't necessarily looking for the hottest guy, at least not according to the choices that I saw.

[–]BrackOBoyO1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Are you orbiting this woman?

[–]DirtyProject0r10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Quote from my father:

"You know why I am happy I have never married your mother and we still are happily together for over 40 years while all your friends' parents have divorced? Because when I say I can walk away any day, minute or second, she knows it is not just bluff."

[–]KartagoPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Modern man isn't gonna have that option, because of marriage.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone who's married I love this. Whenever it comes out in a comment that I'm married I get complete non-sequitur comments that are just some variation of "don't get married" or "you're fucking idiot."

Dude, I get it. Ya ya ya. No fucking shit. What do you want me to do?

My apologies to you, non-sequitur commenter, that I didn't find TRP before I did. Gee golly, sure hope you're not mad at me. That would be terrible.

[–]trptwerp6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great addition to the flairs. It fits very well next to the ltr tag.

[–]iamrsj2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for doing this, much appreciated :)

[–]BestBetaEva2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't have to marry the first girl who lets you come in her bed. It takes at least two years to find out if you are compatible long term. Use that time to work out if your fun times together are permanent or just a flash in the pan. If you are still not sure after three years either bite the bullet and marry her or cut your losses and move on. If it's not going to work long-term, break it off simply but cleanly so you are not depressed.

[–]harsha_hs[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good flair, and extremely accurate moderation rules.

[–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I went to MRP simply because the product was better. More focused and actionable advice, practical ideas and strategies that I could use that relate to the differences between LTR's and marraige over plate spinning. The advice on TRP and asktrp is usually just to "next" her or I would get links talking about what a bad deal marraige is, or some article with statistics about divorce rape or child support or the evils of women. I know my LTR is AWALT, I don't need to read an article about divorce rape or western marraige, I want to know how to rebuild attraction after 6 years of beta behavior or how to deal with the shit tests she gives me about my family or the dog or the dishes.

Most of the content on this sub is excellent, but it's idealistic. Obviously we know that the ideal scenario for a guy is to stay single and hot, and just fuck girls and spread his seed all across the world. There seems to be a tone here that if you only stick with one girl, you're fucking retarded and don't deserve to get good advice or feedback because you're not truly "red pill" anyway.

I honestly don't care which sub is the default for married or LTR guys swallowing the pill, as long as the advice and feedback given is good, practical and understanding that not everyone can, or wants to stay single and bang plates forever. I hope you all can pull it off for the sake of all the guys who will be coming here who need it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Next is not a valid REFLEXIVE response to most of the day to day issues that many marriages face. On the other hand, it also shouldn't be ruled out.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]the99percent12 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

Im gonna play the devils advocate here and say that not all RP men believe in the mantra of "not to get married".

Look, yes, the current feminist landscape does suck.. But then again, feminism is just a shit test..

Let's face it, there are good quality women out there worthy of a lifetime commitment. Plenty can be found in RP women. Women such as these really do help in achieving your mission in life.

And as a man, that is what you are placed on earth to do.. Achieve your fucking mission and then die peacefully. Plenty of great men have gone down this path, why shouldn't you do too? Marriage is very much apart of your mission. To deny it, is just denying an opportunity to achieve your full potential.. Marriage pushes you to achieve the best you can. It is no coincidence that married men out-earn and gain promotion faster than their bachelor counterparts.

If you enjoy children and want to have your own, the likelihood of you getting married increases. It's just a fact of life... Women do expect marriage before kids. They need to have security in the form of marriage.. There's no dodging it. Do you want kids with a woman who can be relied upon to nurture and grow your kids up? Then you are highly likely to get married.

Now, I'm all for taking calculated risks.. marriage to a worthy woman has its huge upsides.. kids, combined income and net-worth, a lifetime partnership, someone you can really trust and count upon, etc..

Marriage is a partnership.. You are entering into a contract, and just like any contract, there is a minute chance it will fuck you in the ass if you aren't careful and don't do your due diligence. That's all there is to marriage.. Do your fucking homework and keep screening women the way that RP have advised you to do and you should be fine.

And in the event your marriage turns to shit in the future.. So fucking what? Just remember, you are a man.. You will live on.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Im gonna play the devils advocate here and say that not all RP men believe in the mantra of "not to get married"

The dogmatics on this sub are freaking troublesome. For a group of men who claim to be all about self-reliance, owning your shit, seeking your own path there sure is a lot of commandments to abide by.

Guess what, you can be pro-marriage and have swallowed the pill. Those who can't understand that possibility are welcome to stay in their sandbox.

Great post, btw.

[–]RealGucciSosa4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Guess what, you can be pro-marriage and have swallowed the pill. Those who can't understand that possibility are welcome to stay in their sandbox.

That entirely depends on what country you live in, and what the laws and norms there are. But if you live in the Western hemisphere, North of the equator, you can forget all that! Marriage can't work.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not that it can't work, obviously it can (rarely). Rather, (in the western world) it's a risk you can not afford to take. So I agree with you nonetheless.

When taking risks, (1) the consequences of losing should be manageable, and (2) the potential reward should justify the degree of risk taken. With marriage in the western world, neither applies.

[–]BoyWhoreWithASword1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you can be pro-marriage and have swallowed the pill.

Not if you live in the western world.

[–][deleted] -1 points-1 points | Copy

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[–]the99percent11 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Nope.. sorry, their anger comes from phase one of RP. It is a legitimate feeling and a right of passage.. to deny their anger and frustration is equally as bad if not worst than denying a married man who is RP aware.

Each have their own reasons to be here..

Good that you've found a decent girl to shackle yourself to and procreate.

The next step for you is to always be at your performance best.. be it your health, fitness, career and game.. As an RP aware male that is married, I too have to contend with my woman hypergamy nature, briffault's law, as well as being able to provide both doses of alpha and beta...

These are real issues that married men have to deal with. Also, the lack of employing dread game is a serious handicap that even myself, sometimes struggle to find the right balance.. It is an entirely different game compared to plate spinning or even ltr for that matter.. I find it challenging, and I like challenges.

I'll be the first married man here to admit that the sex does get vanilla and plain when compared to plate spinning.. however, the trade off here is that I am procreating and passing my knowledge and understanding of the world to my children and I've got a partner that I can count on in life.

That's pretty damn hard to find.. Do you know how hard it is to find someone who is on the same wavelength and understanding as yourself? I've come close, but to strike perfect.. It is hard. Lucky for me, I've married someone who is on paper, the best deal I could have got.

This is a nice trade off imo.. I'm OK with less adventurous sex. Other guys may not be ok with this trade off but that is for them to figure out.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anger is a gift. Anger leads to resolve. Anger leads to motivation. Anger is the first primal way and means to express unconsciously that you are not worth treating like a disposable income and a doormat.

Anger is a gift. I will use it well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this new flair. I have been following TRP for almost two years now. Indeed I have learnt a lot, improved a lot. Most important of all, I am seeing the world with new eys now. Your efforts to spread the worldview of TRP has changed me for good. I will never see sexual dynamics the same way I did in my BP days.

This month I am getting married. In part I've made this decision due to my strong preference for family, in part due to my strong Catholic convictions. I have read MRP sub for some time, but dropped it after a few months.

I very much hope to learn a lot from posts under the new flair.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

just made the first post with the new flair to begin the conversation

[–]Imjustkidding0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

C'mon /u/redpillschool what about the monetary flair we talked about?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ah, yes, I did say we should do that. I'm adding it to my todo list right now.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe combine finance and career? Stick man holding briefcase with a dollar sign?

[–]mikazee0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The discussion taking place shall not devolve into anti-marriage rants, but rather need to stay constructive on how best to manage a relationship and family.

That's one thing I love about this subreddit. I don't always agree, but there is always a push to be constructive. The point of taking responsibility even when it isn't your fault is to put you in the mindstate of doing something about what your situation is to make it better. Doesn't make it fair, but it makes life better.

[–]Areu4realm80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ive been married and i was not happy anymore after the 4th year. this happens to everyone, not only me, love has an expiration date. only get married if you want kids. if you get married because of "love" or "happiness" you will get fucked. be prepared of a boring,unnatural relationship, who gives you nothing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think you need to add topological sorting algorithms here. Because what if somebody would want to read all the top posts from married flair. Also I'd recommend some quick map what picture means what. Not sure if it's possible on reddit. At least ask them.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here's the Married Flair sorted by Top of All Time:

If you click on the flair in our header- it brings you to a sort of that flair ordered by post time (new).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Since this flair is gonna be here now,any chance we can get a way to filter the tag out from the options?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you click any one of the flairs at the top of the page, you can view that flair filtered. As far as I know, there's no way to do a negative filter.

[–]Randomwaves0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I'm not that educated in red pill stuff. So question, is red pill anti marriage?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRP has no moral stance on marriage (or any form of sexual strategy). Individual TRPers have different opinions though.

Here's what TRP seems to agree on:

A committed, cohesive family unit is the best way to raise children. All the statistics show that single moms are far, far more likely to have fucked up kids.

However, getting married in 2016 America involves signing a contract that essentially allows your wife to file for divorce and ruin your life any time she chooses, take away the house you paid for, garnish your future wages, and send you to jail if you lose your job and can't pay (though frequently the state just does that without asking the wife first). Just check out any of the many horror stories on TRP (there's at least 1 in this comments section), and you can see for yourself why getting married is just a shitty idea all around.

Obviously, some women make better wives than others (cue the triggered feminists). TRP believes in traditional relationship dynamics in LTRs (male headship, women taking care of the children, etc.) So if you want kids, find a nice traditional girl with a low/zero partner count (yes there are still some out there), and don't just wife the first bitch who sucks your cock. Then, either cohabitate with her, or have a wedding ceremony and call yourself married, but don't fucking sign that contract. (And check your state's common law marriage criteria! You might be legally enslaved married and not know it). Whether you want to be monogamous, or fuck around on the side, or believe in God, or whatever is up to you.

But, some men don't want kids. And/or they decide to move to a more traditional, less cucked country before having them, where marriage actually means something. So a lot of people say "DON'T MARRY". And for them, there is no reason they'd ever even consider it.

Also, there are some men who bought the feminized BS hook, line, and sinker, and went ahead and got married anyway before discovering RP. If those men tell you to get married, they're probably just trying to rationalize their own bad choices in life (hamstering).

(Disclaimer: I'm a teenager and not terribly experienced with any of this. This is all just textbook RP stuff that everyone seems to unanimously agree on.)

[–]NotUpToAnythingGood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's more that RP doesn't care about marriage. The theory is more or less neutral regarding marriage.

Several of the people here are strongly against marriage in its current form as it gives too much power and latitude to the woman while taking away nearly all the power from the guy. Oh and it (typically) makes the guy responsible for the costs.

Given that TRP is about self-improvement and enjoying the rewards that come with being excellent, it's not a leap to extend that toward actions that have little/no return on investment.

So in a nutshell, modern marriage to a modern woman is generally a bad idea due to the social and legal constructs and the power balance.

[–][deleted] -1 points-1 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't see being married as a bad deal completely, but because I don't want kids, it may not be for me. I'm coming to terms with that. But for guys who are, they are here because they know that the cards are stacked against them and want to lead their ship. It's not an easy path to take, but this place is good for guys that want to retake their rightful place as the Captain.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Might as well link to Facebook and LinkedIn if you wanna get doxxed.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'm going to discuss this with the mods- we don't want to take away from the endorsed contributor tags, but I think this might be a good idea in general.

Will get back to you.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

One data point in this consideration should be a look at the page aesthetics on PPD where there are all manner of custom flairs. It's a clusterfuck to try to seriously read and learn with that format, which is befitting to some PPD and all TBP content. Having a limited set might work; it's really down to Reddit not having a "user profile" function, or something like an old fashioned .sig at the end of the post.

Personally I find the thread readability harmed more than the gain in context benefits it, on RPW, compared to the clean look/feel of TRP.

Whatever you do, please don't start allowing those picture flairs, with different and not-small sized pictures. claws out eyeballs

[–]LuckyLittleStar1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I tend to agree. I think that users' posts should be judged by what they say, rather than who they are. Not to mention that the more customizable a flair is, the less useful it is to get information from.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]LuckyLittleStar2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

There are reasons I don't like them, however I also don't feel that strongly about it. So, I am not going to put that much effort into defending my position.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same. It works on RPW better than it would here.

[–]gonorealover-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

No marriage shaming.

Marriage is the only shame in a man's life. Its the badge that he fails as a man and pays by being a beta providing slave who is inferior to other men . Married men are workers. Married men are providers. Married men are deprived of women's attention. There is nothing worst than a married men . A lonely virgin dying as a virgin is far better off than a man who is despised by his own wife and children .

A married men is inferior than a woman .

[–]2Archterus0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Interesting interpretation of no shaming. May I suggest you take your shit elsewhere, clearly NOT what this sub is about

[–]Rambo1stBlood0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I am kind of confused actually.

Like..I read a lot of posts, and I am confused at how being married is not against what this sub is about.

[–]2Archterus2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can easily understand that. Many of us found marriage way before the red pill, and for some us we remain married and it works. But, that is something of a singularity. Though female nature has always been what is, social changes have removed all barriers to the expression of hypergamy and legal frameworks disempower men. Given these phenomenon MRP is justified on two fronts. 1. As has been said, if you are facing a bear you are not looking for advice about what a dick you are getting into this situation, you want a survival plan NOW. So for some of us who, for many reasons choose to remain married, we need to stay on top of our game. That's where the support of the community comes in and shaming is out. 2. For those guys who may be still contemplating marriage they get a look into the dynamics within an existing marriage and come to their own conclusions.

Remember, TRP is what YOU make of it. None of us are promoting marriage 1.2, but that does not mean we cannot meaningfully support each other striving to be the best that we can be FOR US. That means lifting, cultivating hobbies and male friendship, internalizing the side bar and realising that we are NOT dependent upon the wife for happiness and the meaning of life. That must come from within first otherwise you are as vulnerable as a dandelion in a hurricane.

Not happy wife happy man. Rather happy man and the cards then fall where they may. Ingesting the red pill IS risky. But that is when you know you are alive, when you step out on the edge and it feels great. I reached a point at 50 where I am going from strength to strength, I know that I can survive and I feel great. There where times when I thought the wife would not fall in for the journey. My response: it's life or death, my life or death. The same question confronts us all.

I appreciate the honesty in your question. Cheers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I enjoyed your explanation very much

[–][deleted] -2 points-2 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

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